I have many Walthers Cornerstone kits. Some have been built, some are waiting for me to find the time. I have kit-bashed some of the models and have many of the boxes, containing left-over parts that I'm saving fro future use. All of the boxes have the disclaimer about colors being painted by the modeler.I understand that the disclaimer protects Walthers. But I think I'm entitled to better information.
Except for the two models in question, every one came with parts molded in different color plastic. I purchased these kits over the internet, but even if I had a local dealer to go to, I would have confronted a shrink-wrapped box. Perhaps the dealer would have opened the box; probably not. Is there any way I can determine what the box contains?
Just checked two older Cornerstone kits I have, Sunrise Feed Mill and Valley Cement, the older ones use a full picture that covers the entire front of the box, on the side or back it says "Colors shown painted by modeler. Paint not included"
I don;t see anything deceptive.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Old.ProfessorI looked up the kit number & I do not have that pair.However with past experiences with Walthers kits I woud have expected Either; All medium Gray parts, OR, at least 3 minumum colors in the box, The Reddish Brown of the main walls, the Gray of the Roof Stairs & Gutter trim, & the Clear Windows. However, I do have some kits that were not color cast & I followed the Box art, my own taste, & made them in very nice models.Honestly, other than the window glass there probabvly is some sort of paint on 100% of parts on all my models, weather it is a color tone, weathering (brick grouting etc), & then a Dullcoat.So to me, I do not worry what I see in the box other than a nice fit & finish on the raw parts to assemble a nice model.As said before Wathers does have some pretty good modellers testing the prototypes of the kits for marketing & box art.I am sorry you feel cheated, I can't change that. I hope you will experiment with painting, & make the model more pleasurable to you & your layout.Here is a kit that was cast in all gray (which I prefer over white)...
Old.ProfessorI know I will be unhappy if I finish these kits and put them on the layout. Every time I look at them I will be reminded of the deception.
If that's the case, my suggestion(s):
There you have it. Honestly, I don't think you should expect ANY recompense from Walthers. You may also want to stay away from DPM. Their beautiful kits have molded windows, too. You'll also have to sand the wall edges flush for it to fit properly.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
dknelson Doughless If the box or web says none of this, only a picture of what it COULD look like, YES, it is HIGHLY deceptive. I am not buying what it "could" look like. I'm buying what is in the box right now. What does THAT look like? Deception is the topic of the thread, not each forum members definition of what "modeling" is. Yeah but the box shows an assembled building, and what you are buying is just a bunch of sprues. So under your definition of highly deceptive the box should not show an assembled structure (and I am reminded that at times Walthers has sold its structure kits in plastic bags) because that is not what you are getting, Moreover, the packaging likely also shows the model as assembled by one or another of the highly talented modelers Walthers has on staff. Is someone deceived because the packaging does not say "your results may look considerably worse"? Yes part of being a modeler involves knowing from experience what a kit is and what the packaging is intending to represent. I think we all agree it would be naïve to think that suddenly you'll have the beautiful sky and backdrop that is on the packaging just because you bought and build the kit. And part of being a modeler is possibly not wanting colored plastic to be what you want on your layout because you have put nothing of your own into it, and not liking the look of colored plastic regardless. I am sorry our friend feels deceived by Walthers; those of us with experience do not feel in the least deceived when we buy such things. Consider craftsman kits of rolling stock. Do we really expect packaging that shows that the modeler has not done the painting and lettering that are simply expected of the purchaser, with no warnings on the box, but just the raw assembled kit -- or just the parts for that matter? Dave Nelson
Doughless If the box or web says none of this, only a picture of what it COULD look like, YES, it is HIGHLY deceptive. I am not buying what it "could" look like. I'm buying what is in the box right now. What does THAT look like? Deception is the topic of the thread, not each forum members definition of what "modeling" is.
If the box or web says none of this, only a picture of what it COULD look like, YES, it is HIGHLY deceptive.
I am not buying what it "could" look like. I'm buying what is in the box right now. What does THAT look like?
Deception is the topic of the thread, not each forum members definition of what "modeling" is.
Yeah but the box shows an assembled building, and what you are buying is just a bunch of sprues. So under your definition of highly deceptive the box should not show an assembled structure (and I am reminded that at times Walthers has sold its structure kits in plastic bags) because that is not what you are getting, Moreover, the packaging likely also shows the model as assembled by one or another of the highly talented modelers Walthers has on staff. Is someone deceived because the packaging does not say "your results may look considerably worse"?
Yes part of being a modeler involves knowing from experience what a kit is and what the packaging is intending to represent. I think we all agree it would be naïve to think that suddenly you'll have the beautiful sky and backdrop that is on the packaging just because you bought and build the kit. And part of being a modeler is possibly not wanting colored plastic to be what you want on your layout because you have put nothing of your own into it, and not liking the look of colored plastic regardless.
I am sorry our friend feels deceived by Walthers; those of us with experience do not feel in the least deceived when we buy such things. Consider craftsman kits of rolling stock. Do we really expect packaging that shows that the modeler has not done the painting and lettering that are simply expected of the purchaser, with no warnings on the box, but just the raw assembled kit -- or just the parts for that matter?
Dave Nelson
Dave, I edited out the highly deceptive comment while you were typing your response
- Douglas
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Like most of the other responses, I would simply say that "model" is both a noun and a verb. I have been at this for 44 years, I have yet to build a plastic structure kit and leave it the colors it came molded in - not even when I was 12. I also worked in this business for a number of years, as others said, it has always been this way. Sheldon
Like most of the other responses, I would simply say that "model" is both a noun and a verb.
I have been at this for 44 years, I have yet to build a plastic structure kit and leave it the colors it came molded in - not even when I was 12.
I also worked in this business for a number of years, as others said, it has always been this way.
Sheldon
Sheldon,
I agree with you, but I the heart of this thread is about being able to know what you are buying. If the OP failed to read the box closely, then that mistake is on him.
For the record...I hardly ever build a kit as designed, but reconfigure the walls to suit the space it needs to fit into....then I change the color before assembling.
I either paint the separate doors and windows on the sprues beforehand or hand paint them if the are cast as part of the wall. I can do either quite well.
I just want to know which is which before I buy it.
If they can put a picture of all of their accessories that can be bought to complete the scene they are representing; the vehicles, the people; sometimes a $99 locomotive or $30 piece of rolling stock they just introduced, they can put something useful to the buyer, like the words, "doors and windows cast separately" or "not" on to the box.
I'd eagerly pay for that helpful wording, rather than a detailed picture of the accessories they want me to buy.
Walthers is generally pretty good about the disclaimer of the illustration being a built-up version of what's in the box. It's true that some of their kits are molded in multiple colors, but this is most often when a high contrast between finishes is needed as part of the model's presentation. The labeling has all matched my expectations, but something could have gone wrong the last time a kit was run, for instance.
Maybe this was unexpected, but it's really to your benefit. If you want something like the illustration, then paint it like that. But having all the parts separated onto sprues that can be painted differently is what you really want in such kits. That makes endless variations easily possible.
BTW, does anyone have this kit and what does it say on the box versus what's been described as inside?
If you're really intimidated by all this complication and choice in building a kit, there's always Plasticville USA...
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Old.ProfessorI'm writing about a paid of plastic kits illustrated on the box (and copied on the web) in multiple colors, but is all one color when you open the box. Every other kit that I've made is cast in multiple colors. Do I have the right to feel mislead? Am I entitled to a credit from the manufacturer? The manufacturer is not some small outfit, it's Walthers!
In my opinion, I'd say no. Granted, the photo may show a painted kit, just as model cars, aircraft, and ships do. In fact, in the case of model cars, some boxes have even been known to say "retouched photo of professionally assembled model", or something similar. The box (probably) says it's a kit, not "ready to assemble" (which would imply already-painted and decorated, in my mind). I fully expect to paint any kit, even if it's already molded in color, or multiple colors. Painting just adds a "finish" to a plastic kit, to me, as well as helping prevent the "glowing structure" effect if adding lighting (yes, I would paint the insides as well).
Back when I was first beginning the hobby, and my skills were not as advanced, I would usually ask the clerk at the local shop if a given kit was something suitable for a beginner. He would explain if it needed painting, or more skills than he thought I had. I usually had a general idea of what a given kit would need in the way of assembly and painting before purchase. I'm not sure if you bought this "in person", or by mail, but those would have been good questions to ask if they were issues of concern to you.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
Old.Professor I'm writing about a paid of plastic kits illustrated on the box (and copied on the web) in multiple colors, but is all one color when you open the box. Every other kit that I've made is cast in multiple colors. Do I have the right to feel mislead? Am I entitled to a credit from the manufacturer? The manufacturer is not some small outfit, it's Walthers! I spent several hours working on Cornerstone building kits 933-2953 Freight Office and 933-2954 Freight House. I woke up the next morning realizing that these kits were colored 100% brick brown instead of the multicolor illustrated on the web and the outside of the boxes. The illustrations show white window frames, doors, and handrails, and grey roofs and fire escapes. The kits come with everything the same brown.I have many plastic kit buildings on my layout, including other Walthers Cornerstone. All the window frames are a different color than the building walls. They all were separately installed. The window frames and doors in building kits 933-2953and 933-2954 are cast as part of the walls. Only the freight doors are separate castings, and these are also brown.I know I will be unhappy if I finish these kits and put them on the layout. Every time I look at them I will be reminded of the deception.I think Walthers should give me credit for the cost of these buildings. I sent them email, which was acknowledged with a robot response. Ten days later I still haven't received a real response. If I buy another Cornerstone kit, how can I determine if the color illustrations are believable?
I'm writing about a paid of plastic kits illustrated on the box (and copied on the web) in multiple colors, but is all one color when you open the box. Every other kit that I've made is cast in multiple colors. Do I have the right to feel mislead? Am I entitled to a credit from the manufacturer? The manufacturer is not some small outfit, it's Walthers!
I spent several hours working on Cornerstone building kits 933-2953 Freight Office and 933-2954 Freight House. I woke up the next morning realizing that these kits were colored 100% brick brown instead of the multicolor illustrated on the web and the outside of the boxes. The illustrations show white window frames, doors, and handrails, and grey roofs and fire escapes. The kits come with everything the same brown.I have many plastic kit buildings on my layout, including other Walthers Cornerstone. All the window frames are a different color than the building walls. They all were separately installed. The window frames and doors in building kits 933-2953and 933-2954 are cast as part of the walls. Only the freight doors are separate castings, and these are also brown.I know I will be unhappy if I finish these kits and put them on the layout. Every time I look at them I will be reminded of the deception.I think Walthers should give me credit for the cost of these buildings. I sent them email, which was acknowledged with a robot response. Ten days later I still haven't received a real response.
If I buy another Cornerstone kit, how can I determine if the color illustrations are believable?
Gee... you guys can afford to buy kits???
LION builds stuff from, well, stuff!
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
To those of you who think these products should be described in unending detail to the purchaser, they are nominally priced model toys, not a new car. There is simply not enough profit to support all that individual effort for each kit. Generally such lists of features apply to the "series" of products as a group - not every model in the series will be an example of every feature.
I just happened by this post, I don't spend much time on here anymore. But the irony is that one of the reasons I spend less time on here is at the heart of this thread, more and more the posters on here see "model" as a noun describing something they bought, while I am one of those old timers who see it more as a verb describing what I do.
Frankly, I think most of the responses have been pretty rude.
IF the box and web says that the kit is cast in MULTIPLE COLORS, then it should be cast in multiple colors.
IF the kit box and the web says the picture represents a kit that has been painted, then the buyer should expect that.
ALL kit boxes and web pictures should note whether or not the windows and doors are cast into the wall or are separate pieces. A buyer can at least paint the windows and doors while they are still on the sprues.
And how much extra are we paying for printing that wonderful picture and graphics on the box when we buy the kit, rather than just a clear plastic bag like DPM or Rix Products?
Only Cornerstone kit I have handy to look at is the Industry Office, and various peices are in contrasting colors but as naturally is the case, it's all uniform. The illustration on the box shows a painted and weathered bstructure, doesn't look like the pieces inside at all. However, it DOES say at the bottom of the picture "Kit shown assembled and painted"
Heck, the food magazines show a nice picture of a perfectly cooked steak on a plate, they certainly don't look like that when you buy one at the grocery store.
The picture is showing a version of the kit as it could be. You are expected to model it (paint it) as you see fit. I knew this when I started building model kits when I was 8 years old.
If you don't wish to go through these steps you would probably be happier with buying built ups.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I'm pretty sure, that on a lot of the cornerstone kits,the pic. that is representing, the structure,will also say somewhere,near that pic. as painted and detailed,by whoever,some by the MR Staff. The pic. is supposed to give you a idea, OF what it looks like when completed, it is a kit,not RTR, so it is left to how you want it, the plastic is molded in basic colors,but is not mandatory,only typical..
Cheers,
Frank
The only thing I can think of is "painting suggestions" other then that as was mention been like that for decades.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hardly misleading.
When you go buy a model airplane kit, its often all gray or all green because you're expected to, well, build your model. Same with ships and everything else.
Its not a deception...its...geez I don't care how blunt this is: its been this way for decades. You should have known.
Not everyone wants their kit to look exactly the same. When I was a kid, I built a model of an A-10 Warthog. The kit instructions and the painting (not even a photo!) on the front of the box was a standard Euro green A-10 from the USAFE. The little pictures of the actual model on the side where also green. But at the time, Desert Storm had just happened and the Cold War ended and the A-10s were increasingly gray. While looking at pictures in books to figure out how to paint it in the gray like the current ones, I saw picture of one in arctic camo that had been a special livery for an Alaskan exercise. My model became a Snowhog. That's why they're cast in one color.