A while back I ordered some Cal-Scale and Accurail parts for some projects I am working on from my LHS to get through Walther's. They all come back as Back Ordered!
I go on Bowser's website and the Cal-Scale parts I want are in stock, I go on Accurail's website and the parts I want are in stock. Remember I ordered one of these parts over a year ago and the other about 6 months ago.
I sent an E-mail to Walther's and they answer that they cannot get the parts from the suppliers.
I want to support my LHS but Walther's makes that impossible what can we as consumers do to rectify this situation?
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
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Same issue here with Accurail undec Hoppers, shows in stock on their site, but my Walthers order through LHS is still b/o. Maybe....
-Manufacturer's site not up to date and/or fictitious
-Walther's has to order x number of units before mfr will ship
-Items come in and go out intermittently and the LHS has nothing else coming their way
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
dti406I go on Bowser's website and the Cal-Scale parts I want are in stock, I go on Accurail's website and the parts I want are in stock.
I guess I would have ordered directly from those two companies rather than complain, but that's just me.
I prefer to support my LHS as well, but before I order anything, I always check the Walthers site first to see if it's actually in stock. If not, I'll order direct from the manufacturer.
You end up having to pay the extra shipping, but at least you get the stuff.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Or, if you feel that strongly about supporting your LHS, then have your LHS order directly from each manufacturer,
As far as Walthers is concerned, who knows what issues there may be between Walthers and the two manufacturers.
Rich
Alton Junction
I wanted a second operating switch stand to match another I have from RIX. I looked on Walthers, and they were sold out, with no estimated arrival date. I checked the RIX site, and they had taken the trouble to note that the mold for that model had cracked, and it would be some time before they were available again.
Walthers did all they could, and I must give high marks to RIX for keeping us informed.
As for the switch stand, well, it's just like they say: When they made it, they broke the mold.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
dti406 what can we as consumers do to rectify this situation? Rick J
what can we as consumers do to rectify this situation?
Rick, NOTHING really. Supply and demand are becoming less part of the equation and it is looking more like we get whatever we get from whatever suppliers who will supply whatever they feel like.
You can try to get from the search function on Walther's to see if someone who Walther's sold to might still have the parts you want.
It seem the Chinese manufactures will kill off the hobby, not because of lack of interest.
IFF'EN, and thats a big IFF'EN, IFF'EN I had the ways and means, I 'd start producing MRR stuff here in the USA and then people could complain instead about my "high prices" instead of "lack of supply".
There is ALWAYS something to complain about.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I generally order from who actually has the product (or claims to). I recently walked away from ordering something at one of two hobby shops within an hour or so from me because he was going to order it (from the manufacturer), and the process was going to take some time (his ordering cycle, how quickly the manufacturer fills the orders, shipping time, etc) and involve some risk that it could drag out. He was even priced lower than ordering online, but I didn't want to run the risk of the delay extending into a back ordered situation that took months. I didn't need it the next day, but I needed it in a week or two to complete something.
There was a time when I would not have worried about the possibility of the ordering process dragging into months, but that is not where I see conditions today.
The owner of the other hobby shop near Hooterville and I talked when I was there a few weeks ago, and he has had issues with several suppliers, including Walthers. Between poor availability, long lead times, and often no outlook and minimum ordering requirements/commitments with some suppliers, he was not a happy camper.
One guess, based on the trends we have seen in recent years, is while manufacturers have moved increasingly to announcing a product, accepting pre-orders, then delivering down the road assuming the numbers justify production, I could easily see Walthers moving much more toward "just in time" inventory with those products that are not on a pre-order basis.
- Mark
dti406 want to support my LHS but Walther's makes that impossible what can we as consumers do to rectify this situation? Rick J
want to support my LHS but Walther's makes that impossible what can we as consumers do to rectify this situation?
Rick,Maybe your LHS has some outstanding debts and a zero line of credit ?
There may be some hidden reason.
The reason I think that is my not so LHS gets anything I order as long as its in stock.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE dti406 want to support my LHS but Walther's makes that impossible what can we as consumers do to rectify this situation? Rick J Rick,Maybe your LHS has some outstanding debts and a zero line of credit ? There may be some hidden reason. The reason I think that is my not so LHS gets anything I order as long as its in stock.
No just got some Accurail Doors and Cal-Scale parts in last week and another order went in today, but due to the Holiday will not get till next week.
And to another poster, Accurail is made in the USA, so there is no reason not to have the parts other than laziness and cheapness of Walthers to order them.
It reminds me of the days in the 70's when the shop I worked at would send in an order to Walthers of 34 legal size pages, we would get 2 pages back of stock. But back then we could get stuff from other suppliers like Cleveland Hobbies etc., but between Walthers and Horizon most of those wholesalers are out of business.
dti406It reminds me of the days in the 70's when the shop I worked at would send in an order to Walthers of 34 legal size pages, we would get 2 pages back of stock.
Oh yes,the good old:"Your Dealer can get it from Walthers" days..
galaxy Rick, NOTHING really. Supply and demand are becoming less part of the equation and it is looking more like we get whatever we get from whatever suppliers who will supply whatever they feel like.
On the contrary, supply and demand is absolute master here.
Its a niche hobby where every product is a niche on its own.
For years I ordered from Walthers through a local hobby shop. I always checked availability on the Walthers site before ordering though.
Joan placed her order on the same day every week so I knew when to order and when I could expect to receive my parts, loco, track, decoders etc. One real bonus was I didn't have to pay shipping. Unfortunately the shop is gone now, Joan retired when she reached 70 and couldn't sell the business.
I have another shop that will order anything I need from Walthers as long as it is in stock. Again, no shipping and a predictable schedule. I rarely order from Walthers directly as I feel their shipping rates are way too high.
If an item is not in stock on the Walthers website, I order from the manufacturer or an alternate supplier directly, by-passing the LHS. Not the best policy perhaps, but practical and time saving in most cases.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
NittanyLion galaxy Rick, NOTHING really. Supply and demand are becoming less part of the equation and it is looking more like we get whatever we get from whatever suppliers who will supply whatever they feel like. On the contrary, supply and demand is absolute master here. Its a niche hobby where every product is a niche on its own.
You can demand a "falaygeler" all you want, but if they ain't makin' none, Oh Well. There is no supply, thus no demand with no supply.
If they ain't making it no more, and intend to make no more, then there is NO supply/demand issue!
When supply is GONE, OH WELL you missed the boat ..
IF he really wants the parts, he will have to diligently search whomever Walthers may have sent it to that may still have it in stock.
OTHERWISE, there ain't NOTHIN' he can do about it.*
And warehousing inventory costs money $$$ Lots of it...so manufacturers DON'T want to pay that anymore and have product sitttin' around makin' no money waiting for someone to order it up. SO they did away with THAT.
{*- strange incorrect English used to sarcastically illustrate point}
Galaxy, I agree with you, it seems like old fashioned supply and demand is not working any more. Used to be there was a supply on the shelves and you could buy it. But you can't buy what isn't stocked and won't be for some time. Just in time may be a nice manufacturing concept, but it stinks as a retail one. If you want to sell product, you have to have inventory. Otherwise people will go somewhere else or in our case, find another hobby and then the demand goes away, becoming a self justifying cycle.
It's a lot like the old deferred maintenance means more breakdowns means poor service means fewer customers means less money for maintenance that about killed US railroading in the 60s.
The Walthers site and inventory system are pretty sophisticated. I go to their retail outlet and use their computers which link into the same on-line system you used. I asked for six of a particular item and when Chris came back to the desk he said I had cleaned them out of a particular item. After he did the paperwork to sell them to me, I checked the system and yes it showed them to be out of stock. Just by selling those 6 to me he altered the message in the system.
Of course if something is in the mail it isn't actually there and they would show it as out of stock.
Dave Nelson
richhotrain Or, if you feel that strongly about supporting your LHS, then have your LHS order directly from each manufacturer, As far as Walthers is concerned, who knows what issues there may be between Walthers and the two manufacturers. Rich
Rich hit this one right on the head - both of those manufacturers would be happy to sell directly to your local hobby shop. My local hobby shop is VERY small, but he deals direct with both of those companies.
Walthers seems to be moving away from being a distributor, and more toward just importing/marketing their own products. If they put a low priority on stuff like small parts from other companies that will sell direct to shops or customers, they likely figure customers will get those things direct and they can keep their money invested in the next load from China that says "Walthers" on the boxes.
I keep saying this, and this situation is just more proof - distributors are a dieing bread in this hobby because of the discounting. And the only shops that will survive are the ones that get big enough to buy direct. Walthers knows this and is likely working quietly to get of the "distributor" business.
Sheldon
Hey,
Do you want the TRUTH??? The REAL Answer?I hope I will not get sent to a Gulag for this, but here it is;
Some Resellers have 'Stock Reserves' for Method of ordering.This is how this example worked....One major one, has stock dedicated for Mail/Phone odering... And another inventory 'set' for Internet ordering.I had ordered items (said) in stock, at one time & the Hobby Shop was considered a Retail orderer.. The Direct Stock (Retail Avenue) was Zero count, but the Internet Stock was Plentifull & Close Out paced..I was out of luck..The 'Shop' Explained it to me, & to our both Regret! -we somewhat understood that bias, but could not truely accept it, as a best business practice.All we were left with, was an understanding that Business' have an outline, & a practice in place, & if they do not serve the demand, Oh Well....Sorry to say, I never did make good on my order, but due to that experience, (Savings), I survived an unexpected hardship..This is what I experienced, & I hope not to upset any of my favorite retailers. However, As a Business; if you want my coin, freekin' sell it to me, no matter what 'status' it may be classified as.. PLEASE!!!We are On Demand, & if you do not fulfill that demand, we are elsewhere....
Just my experiences, & a couple thoughts...
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Or, if you feel that strongly about supporting your LHS, then have your LHS order directly from each manufacturer, As far as Walthers is concerned, who knows what issues there may be between Walthers and the two manufacturers. Rich Rich hit this one right on the head - both of those manufacturers would be happy to sell directly to your local hobby shop. My local hobby shop is VERY small, but he deals direct with both of those companies.
Although those companies would be happy to sell directly to the local shops, the willingness of the local shops to deal directly may be a different story.
There are three hobby shops around here. The closest is a Hobby Town. They seem to only want to deal with their distributor. If the distributor doesn't have it, then you're out of luck.
The other two shops are more train dedicated, but are 30+ miles away. The folks running one shop are very nice, but they have their list of providers. I'm sure that if I asked them to special order something they would make the attempt. But if my request is out of the ordinary, I doubt very much if I'd have any hope of success.
The third shop is run by an individual who is a little more accommodating. I asked him to order some bulk packages of plastic shapes that are not normally found on the store racks. He was more than willing. So he contacted the manufacturer and then had to go through whatever the process was to establish an account with them, and then (I suppose) prove that he was an actual brick and mortar establishment rather than some nefarious individual passing himself off as a shop to get whatever discounts hobby shops get. Now, I was ordering $400 worth of plastic, so I can see where it might have been worth his while to go through the process. I'm not sure that he would be willing to do the same for a $10 Calscale order.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Walthers seems to be moving away from being a distributor, and more toward just importing/marketing their own products. If they put a low priority on stuff like small parts from other companies that will sell direct to shops or customers, they likely figure customers will get those things direct and they can keep their money invested in the next load from China that says "Walthers" on the boxes.
I don't know enough about Walthers to say that this is true or not. But, it would surprise me if it were true. Being a distributor has to be profitable for Walthers and without all of these manufacturers, Walthers puts itself at risk in the sense that it makes it harder for hobbyists to succeed.
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Or, if you feel that strongly about supporting your LHS, then have your LHS order directly from each manufacturer, As far as Walthers is concerned, who knows what issues there may be between Walthers and the two manufacturers. Rich Rich hit this one right on the head - both of those manufacturers would be happy to sell directly to your local hobby shop. My local hobby shop is VERY small, but he deals direct with both of those companies. Although those companies would be happy to sell directly to the local shops, the willingness of the local shops to deal directly may be a different story. There are three hobby shops around here. The closest is a Hobby Town. They seem to only want to deal with their distributor. If the distributor doesn't have it, then you're out of luck. The other two shops are more train dedicated, but are 30+ miles away. The folks running one shop are very nice, but they have their list of providers. I'm sure that if I asked them to special order something they would make the attempt. But if my request is out of the ordinary, I doubt very much if I'd have any hope of success. The third shop is run by an individual who is a little more accommodating. I asked him to order some bulk packages of plastic shapes that are not normally found on the store racks. He was more than willing. So he contacted the manufacturer and then had to go through whatever the process was to establish an account with them, and then (I suppose) prove that he was an actual brick and mortar establishment rather than some nefarious individual passing himself off as a shop to get whatever discounts hobby shops get. Now, I was ordering $400 worth of plastic, so I can see where it might have been worth his while to go through the process. I'm not sure that he would be willing to do the same for a $10 Calscale order.
Well, there you have it then.
If Walthers cannot provide it, and if the OP's LHS won't order it directly from the manufacturer, then the OP should feel free to order directly from the manufacturer himself.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Walthers seems to be moving away from being a distributor, and more toward just importing/marketing their own products. If they put a low priority on stuff like small parts from other companies that will sell direct to shops or customers, they likely figure customers will get those things direct and they can keep their money invested in the next load from China that says "Walthers" on the boxes. I don't know enough about Walthers to say that this is true or not. But, it would surprise me if it were true. Being a distributor has to be profitable for Walthers and without all of these manufacturers, Walthers puts itself at risk in the sense that it makes it harder for hobbyists to succeed. Rich
Rich,
It gets back to what I keep explaining about the discounting. Walthers cannot sell Bowser products as cheap as Bowser sells Bowser products. The BIG shops can by Bowser products from Bowser at the same price Walthers buys Bowser products.
As the mom and pop shops close up - which we know they are - there are fewer retailers who want to, or have to buy from distributors because of their small volume. The big retailers don't buy from distributors, they buy direct to get the lower price, so they can discount.
Example - there is one shop near me that sells Bachmann for less than the WHOLESALE prices for Bachmann products from Walthers. Why would any shop large enough to buy direct buy Bachmann from Walthers? They would not.
From what I see, based on what I know about the inner workings of this business, Walthers is still in the distributor business only because of past reputation and because they also do a moderate direct retail business at full MSRP - so that is why they still want to carry those other brands - for now.
As someone else noted, in the 70's and 80's they used their leverage to buy out a number of lines, adding them to their brand rather than just being the "distributor" for them. They made a lot of money with that business model. Now rather than needing to leverage anyone out, they are just growing their own China made products and giving minimal shelf space and investment to distribution of other brands - because they likely see coming what I see - every manufacturer going to some sort of direct distribution.
Just like Bowser, Intermountain, Athearn, Bachmann, Aristo Craft (large scale) and a long list of others are doing.
Intermountain is the "new" Walthers, pulling other small brands into their distribution network. Bowser did the same thing years ago acquiring Stewart, Cal Scale and a list of others. One shop owner tells me similar stuff about Bowser, once also a big "distributor", they have cut back on inventory of outside brands because those sales have slowed - why? Of the remaining "retail" shops, more and more are buying direct and needing distributors less and less.
Others pointed out that some small retailers may be unwilling to buy these lines direct - very true - but I have seen that attitude put several local shops out of business here in this area.
There was at one time four major hobby distributors just here in the MId Atlantic - ALL are gone now - why is that? - nobody pays retail, the middle man has been cut out of the loop, they went out of business because the MB Klein's, Train World's and Star Hobby's of the world buy direct.
richhotrain If Walthers cannot provide it, and if the OP's LHS won't order it directly from the manufacturer, then the OP should feel free to order directly from the manufacturer himself. Rich
Exactly..I no longer order detail parts through my not so LHS even though he can and will order direct.Its cheaper for me to order direct and order enough to justify the shipping.
I fully believe my grandson's generation of modelers will have to be their own hobby shop and order their needs from the manufacturers, Walthers or Horizon.
I would like to touch on this lightly.
Years ago I ordered some detail parts from Walthers through a now closed hobby shop and the guy charged me shipping since that was a "special order of none stocked items(his words)"..That was my last purchase from that shop.
One more note - when I ran a train department in a hobby shop, we had nearly every piece of Cal Scale in stock most of the time - and it sold rather well - at full MSRP.
I seldom had to "special order" stuff like that - we were after all "the local hobby shop" - it was our job to have what people needed.
Oh, never mind, what a silly idea that a retail business would actually have products on hand for people to actually buy when they walked in the door.
But of course that requires making a large enough margin to fund the standing inventory...........
I usually don't order through Walthers, I just use their reference books as reference to see what is available so when I go into my LHS, I know what I am looking for. My local hobby shop( AA hobbies) has just about everything in stock when I ask for it.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Oh, never mind, what a silly idea that a retail business would actually have products on hand for people to actually buy when they walked in the door.
Therein lies the problem with most LHSs today. I always call before spending 30 minutes driving to one because they rarely have in stock what I am after.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Oh, never mind, what a silly idea that a retail business would actually have products on hand for people to actually buy when they walked in the door. But of course that requires making a large enough margin to fund the standing inventory........... Sheldon
Indeed..If that was the case I would happily support such a shop since I'm not buying all that much lately anyway but,I can't justify a 52 mile round trip to see the same old stock and limited new stock.
I'm getting into a dilemma..I don't need to order that much stuff and its getting harder to justify shipping on small (less then $50.00) orders and yet I can't justify that 52 mile round trip and end up paying full MSRP..
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Oh, never mind, what a silly idea that a retail business would actually have products on hand for people to actually buy when they walked in the door. Therein lies the problem with most LHSs today. I always call before spending 30 minutes driving to one because they rarely have in stock what I am after. Rich
Rich, don't you see the catch 22 here? They can't have stuff in stock if they are not making a reasonable margin - but everybody wants 40% off - 40% is the normal wholesale discount off MSRP!
Even selling at 20% discounts, no retailer can buy from distributors, fund a good inventory, and make a living. The big boys like Trainworld, Kleins and Caboose Hobbies do what they do by buying direct - and it is even getting hard for them.
Back in the 1960's when Kleins started discounting, he only gave 20% off and not even on everything - wow has that changed.
I know you think these guys are a bunch of robber Barrens getting this stuff from China at 5 cents on the dollar, but it simply is not true. The retail prices are not just "made up" out of thin air, they are based on centuries old business formulas that work, and they allow for the "distributor" and the retailer to make a fair profit along with the manufacturer. The only way to lower prices is to cut costs - one of those cost cuts is do away with the distributor and split his profit between a discount for the customer and the rest to cover the retailers increased cash requirements to buy larger quantities and deal with more separate suppliers - i.e. individual manufacturers.
Mass merchandising works in other markets because the products are not interrelated. I buy a frying pan at WalMart on the cheap, I don't need to go back and buy any thing to "support" it later - with this hobby every purchase is linked to every other purchase - I buy track, rolling stock, buildings, locos, parts, etc.
So it does not matter where Wal Mart gets the next frying pan or if it works with the last one, it just has to be as cheap as the last one.
Not so with this hobby. Without "all the pieces" the hobby falls apart, people loose interest. And as you noted, they stop shopping at stores who cannot provide a reasonable percentage of the needed pieces.
Presto - no more local hobby shops because of "preorders", heavy discounting, reduced interest in the "craftsman" side of the hobby. Why that last item - it is easy to order RTR trains over the Internet cheap, take them out of the box and drop them on the track.
It is considerably more work to order a kit, and paint, and glue, and detail parts over the Internet and then build a model. The LHS use to have all that "stuff" on hand - you know like if you discovered you needed it in the middle of a project?
But if the LHS cannot make the profit on that loco you just bought, it is hard for him to keep all that Cal Scale, Northeastern lumber, glue, paint (did a paint manufacturer not just give up on this market?), etc,etc, in stock when you need it.
So they don't, and you stop going there - self fulfilling circle.
I'm not going to back-order anything through Walthers anymore. I had an HO 1950 hy-rail truck on back order for over a year without ever being shipped. There were also a couple Accurail cars that I never got.
Never doing that again. From now on, I'm only going to order stuff that is listed as in-stock.
S&S
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But if the LHS cannot make the profit on that loco you just bought, it is hard for him to keep all that Cal Scale, Northeastern lumber, glue, paint (did a paint manufacturer not just give up on this market?), etc,etc, in stock when you need it. So they don't, and you stop going there - self fulfilling circle. Sheldon
That's a two street.
First for me to buy that engine or car it has to be in stock but,its not...
Then what?
Only choice left is on line.
So,who is fulfilling that circle?
A unhappy customer has a tenancy not to return.
As I mention often times before I'm tired of seeing the same old dust covered stock among limited new stock.
Where's the incentive for me to keep returning to that shop?
Not,if that was a full stock hobby shop with lots of new goodies every month for me to look over I would go and happily spend my hobby budget there..