BRAKIE There was an article in MR maybe 15 or more years ago which had a circuit one could build and install in a reefer to provide sound. ------------------------------ Yes,I recall that article and one thing hasn't change over the years..I thought then what I do now..Sound in a reefer is silly..Of course that is subject to change if I get to hear a sound equipped reefer Now the freight cars with the sound of a flat wheel just might get my attention.
There was an article in MR maybe 15 or more years ago which had a circuit one could build and install in a reefer to provide sound.
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Yes,I recall that article and one thing hasn't change over the years..I thought then what I do now..Sound in a reefer is silly..Of course that is subject to change if I get to hear a sound equipped reefer
Now the freight cars with the sound of a flat wheel just might get my attention.
Yeah, the sounds you can actually hear would be pretty neat. If you wanted to see a freight car climb into the $700 range, they could do some exotic stuff like having sensors tied to the mount for the truck so that it can detect the rotation of the two trucks. Then a processor would play an appropriate amount of flange squealing or banging over a crossover. Pretty awesome, but not so useful or cheap! But those are things that you can actually hear when you're trackside...or track half mile away.
NittanyLionPretty awesome, but not so useful or cheap!
Well,a simple decoder installed by the modeler should do the trick with the modeler furnishing the car and metal wheels.The modeler could engage or disengage the sound by his/her DCC throttle or MRC Tech 6.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
OK I gotta chime in here again!
I won't buy stock cars until they come with smell!!!LMAOROF
Sorry - couldn't resist! Too serious some of us are.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter OK I gotta chime in here again! I won't buy stock cars until they come with smell!!!LMAOROF Sorry - couldn't resist! Too serious some of us are. Dave
I love when I'm walking near the tracks and a lot of lumber goes by. Smells wonderful!
cedarwoodron By the way, exactly where are those trading card hobbyists and slot car racers these days.
Slot cars are still going strong in the 1/24th 1/32nd groups-they even have digital slot cars.
So,slot cars hasn't faded from the scene..
Card traders has evolved to "magic" card playing-don't ask I have no idea how they play but,know they have weekly tournaments.
NP2626 You know what I'm most tired of is the inability of some of the people who come here to allow others to express their opinions! If you don't feel that the high prices of things are a detriment to the hobby, don't feel that the hobby switching from modeling to purchasing RTR is one of the reasons for the hobby's decline, then good for you! Let those of us who are concerned about such things have our own little discussions on these things and just move on to the next post you can poke fun at! I'm sure the fact that the youth have little interest the modeling hobbies will have no effect on the hobby what so ever! However, you are right, I don't think I'll have much care about the hobby when I'm dead and gone. Oh, and it is only a hobby! You would think people with a like interest would be just a little more gracious with each other! Instead it's just like the politics of today! Nobody working together; but, everyone slinging barbs at each other!
You know what I'm most tired of is the inability of some of the people who come here to allow others to express their opinions! If you don't feel that the high prices of things are a detriment to the hobby, don't feel that the hobby switching from modeling to purchasing RTR is one of the reasons for the hobby's decline, then good for you! Let those of us who are concerned about such things have our own little discussions on these things and just move on to the next post you can poke fun at!
I'm sure the fact that the youth have little interest the modeling hobbies will have no effect on the hobby what so ever! However, you are right, I don't think I'll have much care about the hobby when I'm dead and gone.
Oh, and it is only a hobby! You would think people with a like interest would be just a little more gracious with each other! Instead it's just like the politics of today! Nobody working together; but, everyone slinging barbs at each other!
I'm confused.
As I read through this thread and then come upon your reply, I am not sure who you are mad at, the OP for raising the issue or the other members of the forum who replied. It seems like a perfectly civil dialog to me. I just cannot decide which side of the fence you are sitting on.
Rich
Alton Junction
jrbernier The OP was talking about Walthers lack of enthusiasm for N scale. He is correct. Walthers has brought out a lot of N scale items over the years, but it appears that they do not see the same return on investment that they see with HO. As a business, you invest your capital where you get the best return. This is a business decision - Not a personal attack on N scale. The market numbers for Walthers bear this out. Now, maybe a 'niche' market is out there for other manufacturers in N scale. Athearn & Intermountain make some N scale engines/cars, but not a duplicate of their HO line, & they do not do structures. Maybe Walthers spread themselves too far in the market place. The other part of this thread seems to lament the 'dying hobby' and the usual blame of high prices & batch production runs. Lets face it, this is the new business model as the actual manufacturer of the product is in China. Jim
The OP was talking about Walthers lack of enthusiasm for N scale. He is correct. Walthers has brought out a lot of N scale items over the years, but it appears that they do not see the same return on investment that they see with HO. As a business, you invest your capital where you get the best return.
This is a business decision - Not a personal attack on N scale. The market numbers for Walthers bear this out. Now, maybe a 'niche' market is out there for other manufacturers in N scale. Athearn & Intermountain make some N scale engines/cars, but not a duplicate of their HO line, & they do not do structures. Maybe Walthers spread themselves too far in the market place.
The other part of this thread seems to lament the 'dying hobby' and the usual blame of high prices & batch production runs. Lets face it, this is the new business model as the actual manufacturer of the product is in China.
Jim
Jim, you raise some good points. I think the OP should return and sort out his concerns a little better.
After re-reading his initial post, I am not so sure that he is talking about Walthers lack of enthusiasm for N scale. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't.
He seems to be upset and/or concerned about several issues:
1. Projects being cancelled.
2. The high cost of locomotives and rolling stock.
3. The quality issue.
4. Passing on the hobby to the younger generations.
5. Declining NMRA membership.
richhotrain As I read through this thread and then come upon your reply, I am not sure who you are mad at..... I just cannot decide which side of the fence you are sitting on.
Generally when I'm mad after trying to jump the fence it's because I ended up straddling it.
maxman richhotrain As I read through this thread and then come upon your reply, I am not sure who you are mad at..... I just cannot decide which side of the fence you are sitting on. Generally when I'm mad after trying to jump the fence it's because I ended up straddling it.
Ouch! That will smart some..
richhotrain NP2626 You know what I'm most tired of is the inability of some of the people who come here to allow others to express their opinions! If you don't feel that the high prices of things are a detriment to the hobby, don't feel that the hobby switching from modeling to purchasing RTR is one of the reasons for the hobby's decline, then good for you! Let those of us who are concerned about such things have our own little discussions on these things and just move on to the next post you can poke fun at! I'm sure the fact that the youth have little interest the modeling hobbies will have no effect on the hobby what so ever! However, you are right, I don't think I'll have much care about the hobby when I'm dead and gone. Oh, and it is only a hobby! You would think people with a like interest would be just a little more gracious with each other! Instead it's just like the politics of today! Nobody working together; but, everyone slinging barbs at each other! I'm confused. As I read through this thread and then come upon your reply, I am not sure who you are mad at, the OP for raising the issue or the other members of the forum who replied. It seems like a perfectly civil dialog to me. I just cannot decide which side of the fence you are sitting on. Rich
Sorry your confused, don't know how to make what I want to say any clearer! Not mad at anyone simply commenting on how people here take a caustic approach with some of their comments which I feel is totally unnecessary, short sighted and counter productive (The proverbial "the Sky is falling" statement)!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626 richhotrain NP2626 You know what I'm most tired of is the inability of some of the people who come here to allow others to express their opinions! If you don't feel that the high prices of things are a detriment to the hobby, don't feel that the hobby switching from modeling to purchasing RTR is one of the reasons for the hobby's decline, then good for you! Let those of us who are concerned about such things have our own little discussions on these things and just move on to the next post you can poke fun at! I'm sure the fact that the youth have little interest the modeling hobbies will have no effect on the hobby what so ever! However, you are right, I don't think I'll have much care about the hobby when I'm dead and gone. Oh, and it is only a hobby! You would think people with a like interest would be just a little more gracious with each other! Instead it's just like the politics of today! Nobody working together; but, everyone slinging barbs at each other! I'm confused. As I read through this thread and then come upon your reply, I am not sure who you are mad at, the OP for raising the issue or the other members of the forum who replied. It seems like a perfectly civil dialog to me. I just cannot decide which side of the fence you are sitting on. Rich Sorry your confused, don't know how to make what I want to say any clearer! Not mad at anyone simply commenting on how people here take a caustic approach to some of their comments which I feel is totally un-necessary, short sighted and counter productive (The proverbial "the Sky is falling" statement)!
Sorry your confused, don't know how to make what I want to say any clearer! Not mad at anyone simply commenting on how people here take a caustic approach to some of their comments which I feel is totally un-necessary, short sighted and counter productive (The proverbial "the Sky is falling" statement)!
Still confused. So, you are mad at the OP?
richhotrain NP2626 richhotrain NP2626 You know what I'm most tired of is the inability of some of the people who come here to allow others to express their opinions! If you don't feel that the high prices of things are a detriment to the hobby, don't feel that the hobby switching from modeling to purchasing RTR is one of the reasons for the hobby's decline, then good for you! Let those of us who are concerned about such things have our own little discussions on these things and just move on to the next post you can poke fun at! I'm sure the fact that the youth have little interest the modeling hobbies will have no effect on the hobby what so ever! However, you are right, I don't think I'll have much care about the hobby when I'm dead and gone. Oh, and it is only a hobby! You would think people with a like interest would be just a little more gracious with each other! Instead it's just like the politics of today! Nobody working together; but, everyone slinging barbs at each other! I'm confused. As I read through this thread and then come upon your reply, I am not sure who you are mad at, the OP for raising the issue or the other members of the forum who replied. It seems like a perfectly civil dialog to me. I just cannot decide which side of the fence you are sitting on. Rich Sorry your confused, don't know how to make what I want to say any clearer! Not mad at anyone simply commenting on how people here take a caustic approach to some of their comments which I feel is totally un-necessary, short sighted and counter productive (The proverbial "the Sky is falling" statement)! Still confused. So, you are mad at the OP?
No. He is not mad at the OP, he is mad at us for the commentary about the "Sky is falling" stuff.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
NP2626 You know what I'm most tired of is the inability of some of the people who come here to allow others to express their opinions! If you don't feel that the high prices of things are a detriment to the hobby, don't feel that the hobby switching from modeling to purchasing RTR is one of the reasons for the hobby's decline, then good for you! Let those of us who are concerned about such things have our own little discussions on these things and just move on to the next post you can poke fun at!
If you are offended by opinions different from your own then it is not a discussion, it is a speech.
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I don't know where you guys come up with the twists to what is said; but, some of you are very good at doing so!
Moving on to the crux of what I think: Because this topic, for some reason tends to bring out some pretty childish and heated mud slinging, like it or not, eventually every one of these threads gets shut down by the moderators! The Model Railroader forums, in particular, are moderated very closely and they do not let things get out of hand! Who is it that is causing these threads to be shut down?
This is, after all, a hobby that I, and I'm guessing most of you, have enjoyed for a large portion of our lives! Simply put, I don't like some of the direction I see the hobby taking! However, I don't have the right to discuss what I don't like, because many of you will turn the discussion into an "I'm smarter than you are" jousting match! and the thread will get shut down!
In the end, your not going to convince me that my views are wrong any more than I can convince you that your views are wrong!
If the above is unclear to you than once again I don't know how I can make what I have to say any clearer and I'm through here because it's a loosing cause!
So, the OP drops a turd into the pond for bait and the rest of us rise up to take it.
Boy, aren't we smart.
The problem with this type of discussion is that nobody has any real hard data. All we have are personal observation and the resulting inference from trends that we think we see. Most of us only see a narrow slice of the market. Opinions are formed from these observations, and that's the end of it.
There is simply not enough data to say anything with certainty. So much of what is stated here is based on limited information.
If like me, you have two sons who are active, and attend a hobby shop like K-10 in Maryville, Il. which caters to kids, and lets them run the huge DCC layout every month, then you are going to think the future is rosy and bright and that kids are flocking to the hobby.
On the other hand, if you wandered around the exhibit hall of the Narrow Gauge Convention a couple of years back in St. Louis, then you would think the hobby is doomed and comprises of nothing but seriously over-weight late middle aged men, who will mostly die young from poor nutrition and exercise habits.
Anyway, the point being is that no-one is right, no-one is wrong. You know what they say about opinions and ......... you get the drift!
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
NP 2626,First I am a moderator on three forums and I'm yet to see real mud slinging.I do see difference of opinion.
Yes,the sky is not falling it never was.What did take place is the hobby as we knew revolved in to superior models,superior controls and to a degree superior modelers..Some tries to remain in the "Blue Box" era when others gladly moved on with the hobby.
Like it or hate its here to stay since the majority of the modelers has voted with their wallets.
However..
There are alternative and cheaper ways to enjoy the hobby that still requires old fashion modeling.
Sadly there are those that overlook those alternatives in their hand wringing doom and gloom prophecy.
I'm still relatively young (30) so I'm expecting to see a renaissance in a couple decades after widespread home 3D printers come around. Patterns might not be cheap, but I'm pretty handy with CAD software so not too worried.
Also, I think people don't compare the barriers to entry very well with other hobbies. I'd love to build model rockets again. Even just the little Estes cardboard tubes. Except I live within eyeshot of the Washington Monument. Any open space I can find puts me in danger of pinging it off an airliner or military helicopter!
NP2626. I, myself, do not see this as a case of one must win and the other must lose. Where do you see this?
What I see is an exchange of opinions. Simples.
The issue is not all that complex really. There are other ways to do this hobby. It is a hobby, is it not? It really does not effect life that much does it?
BRAKIE NP 2626, First I am a moderator on three forums and I'm yet to see real mud slinging.I do see difference of opinion.
NP 2626, First I am a moderator on three forums and I'm yet to see real mud slinging.I do see difference of opinion.
Larry, I have to agree with you on this one.
I have seen some heated debates on these forums, some name calling, some flame wars, but I just don't see it here.
The dialog is not childish, there is no mud slinging. It is simply a dialog among interested forum members.
To suggest that this thread is going to get shut down by the moderators is simply trying to make it a self fufilling prophesy. I think that NP 2626 should go back and read the replies to this thread at the point where he first raised the issue about the inability of some of the people who come here to allow others to express their opinions.
It seems to me that it is exactly what is taking place - - - people expressing their opinions and allowing others to express their opinions.
I seriously doubt that the moderators are spending even a moment wondering whether to lock this thread. Why would they? It is a civil dialog on multiple issues including projects being cancelled, the high cost of locomotives and rolling stock, passing on the hobby to the younger generations and declining NMRA membership.
richhotrain It is a civil dialog on multiple issues including projects being cancelled, the high cost of locomotives and rolling stock, passing on the hobby to the younger generations and declining NMRA membership.
Indeed it is civil when compared the times before the moderators this topic would have gotten completely out of hand.The moderators have been doing a great job in keeping the peace.
I fully agree there are issues with the hobby but,how to fix the problems is beyond the average layman that isn't willing take a active part.
The NMRA and local clubs could be more open to the general public and not like a secrete society..Clubs should be open to student members of a certain age.
The manufacturers need to rethink the future of the hobby..As I mention Bachmann seems to be the leader in that area since you can buy their newer DCC engines for around $40-50.00 on e-Bay and some on line shops.Atlas Trainman is readily available at affordable prices as is some of Athearn RTR.Of course we still have Accurail car kits,Bowser kits all with reasonable pricing.There's still tons of BB kits floating around at various train shows and e-Bay.One can use Bachmann's E-Z DCC for basic train operation on a simple layout. Of course for one train operation a good use MRC Tech II can be found for around $5-10.00 at most train shows...Then how about the older yellow and red box Atlas locomotives? These can usually be picked up around $30-45.00 at most train shows.I seen the older LL P2K GP7/9/18/20 and SW1200s for $45.00 at train shows..I have seen (and bought) use BB with KDs for $4.00 again at train shows.
So,the hobby can be still affordable for anybody if they attend and actually look around at train shows..
Good Morning!
Folks, I've patiently watched this thread from the beginning and can't take being a bystander any more. Let me make some simple, straight-forward bullet comments..........
- The Hobby can be expensive, no argument there. But so is every other hobby/activity out there, as compared to years gone by.
- One can go to train shows and Ebay and get all the "necessities" for a decent layout at a reasonable price for used equipment. If you can't / won't pay for used stuff, then you need to be an armchair modeler or maybe just get out of the hobby.
- One does not have to enter the hobby with "all new stuff" and the "best of everything". Remember, an old Athearn BB kit can roll just as nicely as that $50 RTR (???) car. Said another way, dried coffee grounds, dyed sawdust, and real dirt and rocks can make pretty nice ground cover as compared to the store bought stuff. This hobby was built on innovation and creativity - and one needs to work that as best they can.
- Why is it we once again have a major discussion about the same topic that has been worked time and time again. And, of course it was initiated by a new member with little previous participation....
Everything's been said - more than a few times. Why not shut this down and talk about something else?
-
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44Everything's been said - more than a few times. Why not shut this down and talk about something else?
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
NeO6874This thread's now about the aesthetic differences between the placement of the bell on the K4 and K5 Pacific
Would that be with slanted or modern pilot?
The sad fact is, Walthers priorities are in diesel not steam.Before Walthers bought Life Like, there was a large selection of steam2-8-4 Berks0-8-0 USRA switchers0-6-0 USRA switchers2-10-2 USRA2-8-8-2 Y3 classI think there was more too.And now there isn't a one available. They phased them out over the years. Likely because more people model diesels, and they are easier to make allowing for a larger profit margin.The only real companies left making steam are BLI and Bachmann. It's a shame because of ALL my steam engines, the Walthers/Lifelikes were the most detailed (although lightly weighted) steamers I had. The BLI's were my favorite pullers for their weight and easy maintenance, and the Bachmann's were my value champs, but my least favorite of the 3 due to lack of fine detailing. (Compare a Lifelike Berk to a Bachmann Berk and you'll see what I mean)At the end of the day, it's a business decision, so I can't blame Walthers for trying to maximize their profit. But it still hurts modelers like me.Qty Engine 1 0-8-0 2 2-8-4 1 4-8-2 3 2-10-4 1 2-8-8-2 3 2-6-6-6 3 2-6-6-2 4 0-6-0T 1 2-8-2 2 0-4-0T 3 2-8-0Now I scour eBay to fill my collection, and I'm kind of loath to do that because you don't know who's problems you are inheriting.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Hornby/Rivarossi, Mantua, Athearn Genesis, and MTH are also making steam. Of course, there'll always be brass...
"I've yet to see real mud slinging"?
Are you kidding me?
Perhaps not mud slinging on this one particular forum, because from what I've seen it has mainly been somewhat respectful "disagreement", but the Atlas forum was full of what I would consider mud-slinging and over the top personal attacks.
I was accused of being a paid shill for at least one manufacturer when that was never the case.
I think the mudslinging, and generally misinformed total stupidity combined with general overall negative tone is why both Atlas and BLI have totally shut down their forums. A bunch of loud-mouthed, er loud fingered, know-it-alls who really didn't know much of anything imo completely ruined both the Atlas and BLI forums.
Even if one goes to the Atlas Rescue forum, the overall tone could best be described as "less than positive". Many of the same whiny know-it-alls are on there...and depending what competitor's product one might happen to like, they may totally shred it or attempt to discredit the poster.
There was useful content on the Atlas forum, but it was in the minority, and the few whiny loudmouths somehow think they are or should have a right to be speaking for the masses who actually buy the products, when in fact they don't have a clue what the masses really want to buy in the first place.
The people actually selling the trains (who do have a good idea of what the average customer really wants) don't generally frequent internet forums, with limited exceptions, because when they are done selling the trains, they go home--in some cases not even having time or desire to ever complete their home layout much less play with their collection all that much. My one friend has spent nearly 20 years as the sales manager of a really great train store, and never finished his layout, or even part of one, so I know quite well of what I speak. That doesn't mean he doesn't know model trains, for nothing could be farther from the truth, but beyond his 55 hour work weeks at the store, he desires to simply have "a life".
UP 4-12-2 "I've yet to see real mud slinging"? Are you kidding me? Perhaps not mud slinging on this one particular forum, because from what I've seen it has mainly been somewhat respectful "disagreement", but the Atlas forum was full of what I would consider mud-slinging and over the top personal attacks.
Yes,I was a member there from 2001 to its final shut down and seen it go from a good forum to a mud slinging contest.
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Yes,I recall that..Pitiful at best.
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the few whiny loudmouths somehow think they are or should have a right to be speaking for the masses who actually buy the products, when in fact they don't have a clue what the masses really want to buy in the first place.
Indeed..I never could understand who gave them the authority to speak for the hobby.I even asked once and was ripped to pieces-that was shortly before the second shut down.IIRC the Atlas forum was shut down twice before.I seen the final shut down coming since every topic turned into a whizzing contest.
This is one reason I am moving to more brass, less plastic. The difference isn't the percentage it used to be. Brass also holds its' value better
Richard