So I gave up my Star Trek collection for a dying hobby? NOW you tell me...
tstage If you are referring to the cracked gear issue of 10-15 years ago, that's an easy documented fix with Athearn parts. The only time it comes up anymore is when someone buys one of the older Proto 2000 diesels manufactured before 2000.
If you are referring to the cracked gear issue of 10-15 years ago, that's an easy documented fix with Athearn parts. The only time it comes up anymore is when someone buys one of the older Proto 2000 diesels manufactured before 2000.
And, it should be noted that long before WALTHERS bought Life Like, Life Like identified the cracked gear problem, fixed it, and gave away tens of thousands of replacement wheelsets which work fine - no cracks. AND, Walthers continued to do the same for many years.
While the Athearn parts work, and are a good choice when available, no one should loose sight of the fact that Life Like and Walthers did make good on this problem. The fact that hundreds or thousands of these locos remain new in the box never run, or never sold to an end user, some 12-15 years after they where made, is way beyond the control of, and way past any reasonable expectation of responsibility for any manufacturer.
But at the prices I paid for lots of those locos, and after all the free axles Life Like and Walther gave me, I happily bought more to have backup supply for future purchases or "just in case" some fail again - which has not happened yet.
Sheldon
Dah! Yes that was not a FLAME war. It may be how they get started, however.
Paul3 thanks for pointing out my overuse of the exclamation point. Don't know what everyone would do with out all the free grammar and psychiatric help available to us here on the model railroader forums! I have been wrong all along! These forums are not about model railroading at all; but, are all about pointing the shortcomings and foibles of those among us less noble than the elite!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
NP2626,That was not a "flame war", if you were being serious. If you actually think it was a flame war, then you really haven't seen one. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make it a flame war, and just because someone points out a problem with one's posting does not make it one, either. We can disgree without being disagreeable.
Paul A. Cutler III
maxman Wow, this thread is like the Terminator.........it just won't die.
Wow, this thread is like the Terminator.........it just won't die.
And, of course, as each of us posts another reply, it gains new life !
Rich
Alton Junction
tstage That's too bad about the Proto 2000 0-8-0s. Sadly, projects do get cancelled for a variety of reasons If you are referring to the cracked gear issue of 10-15 years ago, that's an easy documented fix with Athearn parts. The only time it comes up anymore is when someone buys one of the older Proto 2000 diesels manufactured before 2000.
That's too bad about the Proto 2000 0-8-0s. Sadly, projects do get cancelled for a variety of reasons
So far as I can tell, the 0-8-0 project that was cancelled was N scale, not HO. I posted a question asking him if this was what he was talking about the second post down on the first page. I'll repeat the link here: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/929-70001
I just looked at the Walthers site for HO 0-8-0's and they are taking advance reservations for December delivery. Maybe this project will be cancelled if they don't get enough bites, but that does not appear to have happened yet.
Heavy J611 With the notice that the Proto 2000 0-8-0 and other brands have been cancelled, is the cost of the locomotives and cars getting too high? I have been in this hobby for 40 years. The quality of everything is better than ever except for the cracked gears that you read about in other groups. $400 to $500 dollars is too much to pay for equipment that won't fun. But I am concerned about passing the hobby to the younger followers. I know my modeling dollars are going down. The NMRA membership is down and troubled times seem to not be far off.I truely love model railroading and everything it has to offer but what is the limit?
With the notice that the Proto 2000 0-8-0 and other brands have been cancelled, is the cost of the locomotives and cars getting too high? I have been in this hobby for 40 years. The quality of everything is better than ever except for the cracked gears that you read about in other groups. $400 to $500 dollars is too much to pay for equipment that won't fun. But I am concerned about passing the hobby to the younger followers. I know my modeling dollars are going down. The NMRA membership is down and troubled times seem to not be far off.I truely love model railroading and everything it has to offer but what is the limit?
Wow! This is impressive! We've managed to combine the age-old cyclical topics of high prices and the hobby is dying - ALL in ONE thread.
That's too bad about the Proto 2000 0-8-0s. Sadly, projects do get cancelled for a variety of reasons.
If you're money-wise, there's plenty of deals out there for good-quality, smooth-running locomotives and rolling stock that won't break the bank. You just have to know where to look. If you don't like the high prices of new product - don't buy it. If you're patient, you'll be able to pick up the same product a few months down the road at reduced cost.
Most every business plays some sort of price game when it comes to selling product. Electronics, cars, tires, carpet, windows, etc. They just look for new ways and twists to package the "deals".
Finally, from what I've seen at train shows and excursions, MRRing won't be dying out anytime soon.
My ...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
TA462Ya, we all know you moderate your own forum.
You're sadly mistaken.I don't operate a forum..
I moderate on three forums..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The below quote was taken from the Athearn Facebook Page:
"New Lower Price for AC4400CWs in traditional roadnames as well as Norfolk Southern Heritage colors
Resuming Ready To Roll AC4400CW and DASH-9 ProductionWhen we ordered the NS Heritage AC4400CWs in ES44AC colors, we also included the AC4400CW and DASH 9 locomotives that were affected by the factory closure earlier this year. Because of the quantity, we were able to secure a better production cost so we’re passing the savings along to say thank you for your patience and support through the transition. These are the first Ready To Roll models to go back into production and we have plenty of room for additional preorders. Athearn.com will reflect the new prices tomorrow (Saturday 9/15). "
As it has been suggested before, it's not as simple as the conspiracy theorists make it out to be.
I'm not suggesting this is a permanent trend (nothing ever is, lol) but I'd hate to think people really thing Manufacturers/Importers are simply "lining their pockets" and "sticking it to us poor model railroaders".
Hopefully this excerpt is found to be educational to as many folks as possible
By the way; the price savings on the MSRP is around $30. Thank you Athearn!
~Kyle
The Mary Lindsay Railroad - Featuring Amtrak Model Trains Your HO Rail Journey Starts Here.........
www.marylindsayrr.vze.com (Last Update: 5/31/12)
blownout cylinder Actually, one such scratchbuild I'm up to lately is my little service center for Sim's Jtn...plus a couple more weighscales....
Actually, one such scratchbuild I'm up to lately is my little service center for Sim's Jtn...plus a couple more weighscales....
I want to see others projects..if we are going to talk about modelling let's put it forward....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
richhotrain mobilman44 But my big gripe is that the OP - with his grand total of 6 postings on this forum - threw out a grenade, and we all fell on it. He is GONE - and obviously doesn't give a hoot about what any of us has to say. He is very likely laughing his posterior off right now at all the difficulties he caused. I would give the OP more time. After all, before this post, his most recent post was July 11, 2008. It looks like he posts once every 4 years.
mobilman44 But my big gripe is that the OP - with his grand total of 6 postings on this forum - threw out a grenade, and we all fell on it. He is GONE - and obviously doesn't give a hoot about what any of us has to say. He is very likely laughing his posterior off right now at all the difficulties he caused.
But my big gripe is that the OP - with his grand total of 6 postings on this forum - threw out a grenade, and we all fell on it. He is GONE - and obviously doesn't give a hoot about what any of us has to say. He is very likely laughing his posterior off right now at all the difficulties he caused.
I would give the OP more time. After all, before this post, his most recent post was July 11, 2008. It looks like he posts once every 4 years.
Finely, a positive posting. See you all in 2016.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
mobilman44 Guys, I certainly respect all your opinions and even agree with some. But my big gripe is that the OP - with his grand total of 6 postings on this forum - threw out a grenade, and we all fell on it. He is GONE - and obviously doesn't give a hoot about what any of us has to say. He is very likely laughing his posterior off right now at all the difficulties he caused. Goodness, I'm at the point I would rather read about "building diaramas" or "the General" !
Guys, I certainly respect all your opinions and even agree with some.
Goodness, I'm at the point I would rather read about "building diaramas" or "the General" !
No soup for you !
NEXT !
Such passion over nothing.
You guys should go build something and stop babbling.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
TA462 NP2626 So, go ahead and demonstrate that all these threads eventually get locked down by the moderators, Brakie! I kind of agree with NP2626. Nobody should promote locking an active thread with active content because THEY don't like it. If the wannabee moderators want to moderate then moderate yourselves by not participating or even looking at threads like these ones. Simple solution eh?
NP2626 So, go ahead and demonstrate that all these threads eventually get locked down by the moderators, Brakie!
So, go ahead and demonstrate that all these threads eventually get locked down by the moderators, Brakie!
I kind of agree with NP2626. Nobody should promote locking an active thread with active content because THEY don't like it. If the wannabee moderators want to moderate then moderate yourselves by not participating or even looking at threads like these ones. Simple solution eh?
Actually I have several years moderating experience and like it or not this topic has ran its course and is beginning to go South.
If this was on one of the forums I moderate on it would be locked as of now.Period.
And maybe a suspension or two handed out.
selector Hasn't "it" all been said in this thread already? Time to get out the clamp. Crandell
Hasn't "it" all been said in this thread already? Time to get out the clamp.
Crandell
Agreed..
Paul3 NP2626,I think the problem here is you. For example, are you aware that you use more exclamation points here than you do periods? I went and counted, and in this thread alone, you have 35 sentences. Of the 35 punctuation marks in use, 31 are exclamation points, 2 are question marks, and 2 are periods. Doesn't that seem rather odd to you? An over-use of exclamation points only serves to get people riled up. (And just to show you what I mean, I will repost the above using exclamation points to show how different it reads compared to using periods) I think the problem here is you! For example, are you aware that you use more exclamation points here than you do periods? I went and counted, and in this thread alone, you have 35 sentences! Of the 35 punctuation marks in use, 31 are exclamation points, 2 are question marks, and 2 are periods! Doesn't that seem rather odd to you? An over-use of exclamation points only serves to get people riled up! (See the difference? I said exactly the same thing, but one reads as conversational, while the other in confrontational. Which do you want to communicate?) Paul A. Cutler III
NP2626,I think the problem here is you.
For example, are you aware that you use more exclamation points here than you do periods? I went and counted, and in this thread alone, you have 35 sentences. Of the 35 punctuation marks in use, 31 are exclamation points, 2 are question marks, and 2 are periods. Doesn't that seem rather odd to you?
An over-use of exclamation points only serves to get people riled up.
(And just to show you what I mean, I will repost the above using exclamation points to show how different it reads compared to using periods)
I think the problem here is you!
For example, are you aware that you use more exclamation points here than you do periods? I went and counted, and in this thread alone, you have 35 sentences! Of the 35 punctuation marks in use, 31 are exclamation points, 2 are question marks, and 2 are periods! Doesn't that seem rather odd to you?
An over-use of exclamation points only serves to get people riled up!
(See the difference? I said exactly the same thing, but one reads as conversational, while the other in confrontational. Which do you want to communicate?)
And so, the flame wars begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, I will take note of how many !!! I use in the future. Certianly, the use of exclaimation points does not mean that I am the root of all evil?
I would not be surprised if s/he is not getting their lulz now....
NP2626 "Only because a lot of the time people went around getting into flaming other people". And, therein lays the problem!
"Only because a lot of the time people went around getting into flaming other people".
And, therein lays the problem!
I don't see any real flaming..I do see disagreements and that will happen with topics like this which BTW borders on Kits vs.RTR topics of old..You talk about a flame fest back when there was little moderating..Terrible!
The written word can also be misinterpreted by the reader and that's why I learned years ago one needs thick skin and common sense to be active on forums.
The funny part is the OP disappeared into thin air.
NP2626 richhotrain NP2626 I want to promote model building! That you and the few others that always say things like: "OMG, The Sky is falling", somehow manage to get these types of threads closed! There is another FACT for you! Of course I realize this is a complete waste of my time and only adding fuel to the fire, because that's the nature of Forums in this world! I don't see anything objectional in this thread that would warrant locking it. Rich Nor do I! Yet, these types of threads have been shut down !
richhotrain NP2626 I want to promote model building! That you and the few others that always say things like: "OMG, The Sky is falling", somehow manage to get these types of threads closed! There is another FACT for you! Of course I realize this is a complete waste of my time and only adding fuel to the fire, because that's the nature of Forums in this world! I don't see anything objectional in this thread that would warrant locking it. Rich
NP2626 I want to promote model building! That you and the few others that always say things like: "OMG, The Sky is falling", somehow manage to get these types of threads closed! There is another FACT for you! Of course I realize this is a complete waste of my time and only adding fuel to the fire, because that's the nature of Forums in this world!
I want to promote model building! That you and the few others that always say things like: "OMG, The Sky is falling", somehow manage to get these types of threads closed! There is another FACT for you!
Of course I realize this is a complete waste of my time and only adding fuel to the fire, because that's the nature of Forums in this world!
I don't see anything objectional in this thread that would warrant locking it.
Nor do I! Yet, these types of threads have been shut down !
Only because a lot of the time people went around getting into flaming other people.
I've actually seen innocuous threads getting locked because people misunderstood each other and began flaming sessions.
Sheldon--
I really hope you do not perceive any hostility from me, because there is none.
In some ways we probably have more in common than you might actually think--I have at various times lettered or intended to letter stuff for a private road, but then for whatever reason I usually cease doing so and revert to prototype roadnames...perhaps I'm too much a prisoner of history...
It's only recently that I could begin to appreciate some of the railroads in my own backyard (as opposed to those glory lines half way across the country with the really flashy paint jobs that usually seem to get most of the press).
In the coming months I'll probably be reading more about all the reasons PC actually failed...
John
UP 4-12-2 I don't always agree with Sheldon, but I think he's correct here. People that want to can and will find a way to pay for it. I myself am on a more limited budget such that if/when I change my mind and want something, other somethings have to go...I mean no disrespect to all the folks who say they never sell anything, but keep every train item they buy--that's great for them--but for those of us who want to try out the latest thing, whatever it is, that just won't work. I do, however, very much miss my 46% employee discount that we once received at a train store (they cannot even offer their employees anything near that discount in the present day--because dealer cost has changed quite a bit since then)--lol--and when I did get that 46% discount I was a college student or just starting out such that I really didn't have much money at all, but I still managed to buy some of the better motive power at the time (Oriental Limited Powerhouse Series USRA 2-8-8-2's were not bad at all...) John P.S. I'm "on the wagon" now--anything I buy I keep now, and I'm "retired" from Ebay as a seller--it was really starting to decline for sellers anyway.
I don't always agree with Sheldon, but I think he's correct here.
People that want to can and will find a way to pay for it.
I myself am on a more limited budget such that if/when I change my mind and want something, other somethings have to go...I mean no disrespect to all the folks who say they never sell anything, but keep every train item they buy--that's great for them--but for those of us who want to try out the latest thing, whatever it is, that just won't work.
I do, however, very much miss my 46% employee discount that we once received at a train store (they cannot even offer their employees anything near that discount in the present day--because dealer cost has changed quite a bit since then)--lol--and when I did get that 46% discount I was a college student or just starting out such that I really didn't have much money at all, but I still managed to buy some of the better motive power at the time (Oriental Limited Powerhouse Series USRA 2-8-8-2's were not bad at all...)
P.S. I'm "on the wagon" now--anything I buy I keep now, and I'm "retired" from Ebay as a seller--it was really starting to decline for sellers anyway.
John we have discussed this before and I surely do understand how your situation has been different from mine.
To be clear to everyone,
One thing that should be said about my "habit" of seldom selling off any model equipment is that I have always been a "modeler" and as such much of my equipment is custom painted, lettered to my private road, detailed to my tastes, weathered, modified to suit my needs and wants. This alone makes "resale" less practical - I think the market for locos lettered "ATLANTIC CENTRAL" is pretty small.
I have never "collected", only bought models to suit the goals of predetermined layout themes, a theme now that has been in place for a number of decades.
I too worked in the industry and bought some stuff at generous discounts, but ironicly that was at the time in my life when money was tight.
In the last 15-20 I have enjoyed the low prices relative to my purchasing power, and have accumulated much of what I desire for the layout I am building.
I don't whine about prices, they are what they are. I'm self employed, I don't think the prices I charge my customers are too high - they either want my skills/services or they don't. I feel the same way when I buy model trains - I either want it that much - or I don't.
Call me selfish or self involved, but I give no thought to who else can or cannot afford this hobby - it has NEVER been a hobby for the poor - it matters not if you build or buy RTR.
It costs what it costs - before you expect ANYONE to give you something for less, consider how much of pay cut you are willing to take.
And trust me - no one at any level of the model train business is "getting rich".