As I mentioned a few days ago, it's fine to dream of filling as much of the room as you can, but you really should build a small layout or module first to get some experience - and decide what you like.
The main reason that you're struggling so much with layout design is that you are, in fact, brand new to the hobby, and you likely have little knowledge of proto railroads. The very best thing you can do is buy the classic text in this arena: Track Planning for Realistic Operation, by John Armstrong - the dean of modern layout design. Although much of it is dated, 101 Track Plans might also be helpful, although I suspect it's been supplanted to a large extent by the net. Before you can create a track plan, you need to know how to "read" and analyze them, and that requires prior model railroad experience (beyond running your engine on a yard of flex-track) and some knowledge of 1:1 scale railroads.
http://www.amazon.com/Track-Planning-Realistic-Operation-Railroader/dp/0890242275
I think to get anything close to what you want in your room, I'd say you need to go to 7' by 14' at a minimum. This is the smallest functional basic scheme that I came up with:
[View:https://picasaweb.google.com/Velotrain/September82012#5785748961709824994:600:0]
One of John Armstrong's favorite phrases was "givens and druthers" - essentially, the absolute limiting criteria on the layout space and design, and the ideal preferances of the builder. Or, as Eric phrased it, "the must haves and can live without.." Here is the list for this plan:
Initial available space stated as 6' x 14', but there seems to be some flexibility, especially to help achieve the next item:
Strong desire for multiple levels
Preference for "mountainous" scenery - whether western or eastern ("I would like some elevated inclines, a tunnel, rock faces, and stuff like that")
Minimum radius of 22"
Maximum reach to any track ~30" - access assumed on "west" side of layout space
Maximum grade around 2%
Comments
========
The length is 13'6", mostly because I couldn't fit 14' on my graph paper at a workable scale.
The middle peninsula extends to just over 8' to allow the running room to gain the necessary elevation given the grade and radius criteria.
If the "west" peninsula could also be extended, it would allow the "lower" main to have more physical / visual separation from the "Summit" area.
Although a couple of people mentioned a switching layout, I had a strong sense you were disappointed to hear that, and thought you should be able to get something close to what you wanted in the space available.
The "east" peninsula is necessary to gain access to track on the middle peninsula.
There is some possibility of making the "east" peninsula an industrial switching area and relocating the yard to Summit, especially if the "west" peninsula could be extended. A major weakness of the present yard is the lack of a runaround track (hopefully a self-descriptive, if likely new, term; a major need of a yard is for an engine to access individual and "cuts" of cars from either end).
Although there is no tunnel shown, there is an intent to run a short mining or logging spur to the tip of the "west" peninsula, which would work better (scenically) if the main was in a tunnel there - for several feet in each direction. This will lend greater isolation / credibility to the scene above. This spur could be narrow gauge - HOn30 would probably work better than HOn3, due to the greater variety of suitable (and reasonably priced) engines for this short run.
There is a short section with a much steeper grade, likely in the 4-5% range. This is the connecting track from Summit to the yard, which among other things allows you to bring trains out onto the main in either direction. Also, if Summit becomes the yard, it provides easy access between the yard and the switching area. As you gain operating experience, you will likely drift towards either the "train watcher" or "switching" camp.
A passing siding could be added to the lower level below Summit, although at the moment there is almost no straight track in the area. Proto railroads (and serious modelers) virtually always have the main use the straight leg of a turnout.
Comments said you didn't have room for a "main line", and I see this as very much a "branch line" or "short line" operation.
There are several locations for potentially adding industries.
Both tracks being on a curve at the crossing is less than desirable, but I felt it couldn't be avoided.
As others have noted, your space is not optimal for running long trains, although the engine could pick up cuts of cars from multiple tracks before departing the yard.
This is more of a "sketch" than a "plan", as I tried to be reasonable, but didn't use templates for the turnouts.
Speaking of which, given your background, you might prefer track planning software (probably at least a half-dozen varieties available - MR did a review / comparison sometime in the past decade), and this is sure to trigger voicing of strong preferences.
Since you're not used to track plans, the numbers are inches of elevation (gain). I think 4" should be adequate clearance with a well-selected / implemented bridge solution.
There are many comments on the net that it's easier (by half) to achieve crossing separation in small spaces by having one track rise and the other decline, but I don't consider that very attractive visually.
This general type of plan is often called a "folded dogbone" - read Armstrong, or look on the web.
Charles
Link to track plan:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Velotrain/September82012#5785748961709824994
Whatever the process for inserting images into messages actually is, I find it less than intuitive. I had used that icon, and it generated the non-functional code in the prior post. I don't understand why I can't browse images on my computer, with the only supplied options being to specify a URL or do a site search. I loaded the image to Picasa, and did provide the URL, but it was wrapped in other characters:
actual URL here
Explanations of this welcome.
velotrain As I mentioned a few days ago, it's fine to dream of filling as much of the room as you can, but you really should build a small layout or module first to get some experience - and decide what you like. The main reason that you're struggling so much with layout design is that you are, in fact, brand new to the hobby, and you likely have little knowledge of proto railroads. The very best thing you can do is buy the classic text in this arena: Track Planning for Realistic Operation, by John Armstrong - the dean of modern layout design. Although much of it is dated, 101 Track Plans might also be helpful, although I suspect it's been supplanted to a large extent by the net. Before you can create a track plan, you need to know how to "read" and analyze them, and that requires prior model railroad experience (beyond running your engine on a yard of flex-track) and some knowledge of 1:1 scale railroads. http://www.amazon.com/Track-Planning-Realistic-Operation-Railroader/dp/0890242275 I think to get anything close to what you want in your room, I'd say you need to go to 7' by 14' at a minimum. This is the smallest functional basic scheme that I came up with: [View:https://picasaweb.google.com/Velotrain/September82012#5785748961709824994:600:0] One of John Armstrong's favorite phrases was "givens and druthers" - essentially, the absolute limiting criteria on the layout space and design, and the ideal preferances of the builder. Or, as Eric phrased it, "the must haves and can live without.." Here is the list for this plan: Initial available space stated as 6' x 14', but there seems to be some flexibility, especially to help achieve the next item: Strong desire for multiple levels Preference for "mountainous" scenery - whether western or eastern ("I would like some elevated inclines, a tunnel, rock faces, and stuff like that") Minimum radius of 22" Maximum reach to any track ~30" - access assumed on "west" side of layout space Maximum grade around 2% Comments ======== The length is 13'6", mostly because I couldn't fit 14' on my graph paper at a workable scale. The middle peninsula extends to just over 8' to allow the running room to gain the necessary elevation given the grade and radius criteria. If the "west" peninsula could also be extended, it would allow the "lower" main to have more physical / visual separation from the "Summit" area. Although a couple of people mentioned a switching layout, I had a strong sense you were disappointed to hear that, and thought you should be able to get something close to what you wanted in the space available. The "east" peninsula is necessary to gain access to track on the middle peninsula. There is some possibility of making the "east" peninsula an industrial switching area and relocating the yard to Summit, especially if the "west" peninsula could be extended. A major weakness of the present yard is the lack of a runaround track (hopefully a self-descriptive, if likely new, term; a major need of a yard is for an engine to access individual and "cuts" of cars from either end). Although there is no tunnel shown, there is an intent to run a short mining or logging spur to the tip of the "west" peninsula, which would work better (scenically) if the main was in a tunnel there - for several feet in each direction. This will lend greater isolation / credibility to the scene above. This spur could be narrow gauge - HOn30 would probably work better than HOn3, due to the greater variety of suitable (and reasonably priced) engines for this short run. There is a short section with a much steeper grade, likely in the 4-5% range. This is the connecting track from Summit to the yard, which among other things allows you to bring trains out onto the main in either direction. Also, if Summit becomes the yard, it provides easy access between the yard and the switching area. As you gain operating experience, you will likely drift towards either the "train watcher" or "switching" camp. A passing siding could be added to the lower level below Summit, although at the moment there is almost no straight track in the area. Proto railroads (and serious modelers) virtually always have the main use the straight leg of a turnout. Comments said you didn't have room for a "main line", and I see this as very much a "branch line" or "short line" operation. There are several locations for potentially adding industries. Both tracks being on a curve at the crossing is less than desirable, but I felt it couldn't be avoided. As others have noted, your space is not optimal for running long trains, although the engine could pick up cuts of cars from multiple tracks before departing the yard. This is more of a "sketch" than a "plan", as I tried to be reasonable, but didn't use templates for the turnouts. Speaking of which, given your background, you might prefer track planning software (probably at least a half-dozen varieties available - MR did a review / comparison sometime in the past decade), and this is sure to trigger voicing of strong preferences. Since you're not used to track plans, the numbers are inches of elevation (gain). I think 4" should be adequate clearance with a well-selected / implemented bridge solution. There are many comments on the net that it's easier (by half) to achieve crossing separation in small spaces by having one track rise and the other decline, but I don't consider that very attractive visually. This general type of plan is often called a "folded dogbone" - read Armstrong, or look on the web. Charles
Thanks Charles. I will take your advice and order those books. However, I was very disappointed that I could not access the Picassa photo because Google says it is no longer available.
velotrain Link to track plan: https://picasaweb.google.com/Velotrain/September82012#5785748961709824994 Whatever the process for inserting images into messages actually is, I find it less than intuitive. I had used that icon, and it generated the non-functional code in the prior post. I don't understand why I can't browse images on my computer, with the only supplied options being to specify a URL or do a site search. I loaded the image to Picasa, and did provide the URL, but it was wrapped in other characters: actual URL here Explanations of this welcome.
Well, without that picture I'll have no idea about what you're talking about. Bummer.
As for what you said earlier, I have one of WS scenery kits on the way where you build a mini diarama with one piece of HO track coming. I watched the video online and it looks really simple.
I uploaded a lot of photos of my room and even a detailed drawing with measurements on the layout forum.
Paul_in_GA velotrain Link to track plan: https://picasaweb.google.com/Velotrain/September82012#5785748961709824994 Whatever the process for inserting images into messages actually is, I find it less than intuitive. I had used that icon, and it generated the non-functional code in the prior post. I don't understand why I can't browse images on my computer, with the only supplied options being to specify a URL or do a site search. I loaded the image to Picasa, and did provide the URL, but it was wrapped in other characters: actual URL here Explanations of this welcome. Well, without that picture I'll have no idea about what you're talking about. Bummer. As for what you said earlier, I have one of WS scenery kits on the way where you build a mini diarama with one piece of HO track coming. I watched the video online and it looks really simple. I uploaded a lot of photos of my room and even a detailed drawing with measurements on the layout forum.
Just for the heck of it, I tried it myself, and nothing came up. So Paul, you may be right.
I have built some of those scenery dioramas myself to try my hand at scenery, and they were well worth the money! I got rid of them so I had room for my postwar fleet, and I still need more room yet!
Not only that, but they were just collecting dust.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
Hi, Paul,
Let me put my oar in here. First of all, you must be flush of cash, because you've probably dropped about half a grand, and you haven't built anything yet. Unless you're made of money, put your wallet away for a while until you have a clearer picture for what you need.
You have a "help with layout design" thread over on the Layouts page. My recommendation would be to either use this thread or that one to get ideas and help, and not try to do both.
A couple of other observations. First, you're over-thinking DCC. Many systems are pretty much plug and play these days. Eventually, you will need to get into the guts of it to really tweak the operation of your system, but for starters, you can pretty much hook it up to the track, program a couple of locomotive addresses, and run trains.
So what I would do is set up a simple layout, on which you will experiment with various construction materials, processes, and operating techniques. This will help crystallize your wants and likes, and maybe give you some ideas for what to incorporate into your permanent layout.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
CTValleyRR Hi, Paul, Let me put my oar in here. First of all, you must be flush of cash, because you've probably dropped about half a grand, and you haven't built anything yet. Unless you're made of money, put your wallet away for a while until you have a clearer picture for what you need. You have a "help with layout design" thread over on the Layouts page. My recommendation would be to either use this thread or that one to get ideas and help, and not try to do both. A couple of other observations. First, you're over-thinking DCC. Many systems are pretty much plug and play these days. Eventually, you will need to get into the guts of it to really tweak the operation of your system, but for starters, you can pretty much hook it up to the track, program a couple of locomotive addresses, and run trains. So what I would do is set up a simple layout, on which you will experiment with various construction materials, processes, and operating techniques. This will help crystallize your wants and likes, and maybe give you some ideas for what to incorporate into your permanent layout.
Hi CT, well I'm not "flush with cash" but I can afford that stuff. You make some very good points. I am also on the layout section and the people there are very helpful and I appreciate that.
As for your advice, well, that's exactly what I am doing.
I have some track on order, I have the DCC controller, I even have a DVD with buildings I can print out to see how things might fit. Then there's the new Walther's book that has every section of code 83 track Atlas makes on paper which are full size so I plan on doing a mock-up first. I do know what I need, I just have to make it a reality. Thanks for your help, it means a lot to me.
Paul
Another voice of reason trying to slow down a runaway train. Maybe Paul should just hire a professional designer who will provide him with build specs.
velotrain Another voice of reason trying to slow down a runaway train. Maybe Paul should just hire a professional designer who will provide him with build specs.
LOL! "Runaway train"! I was laughing so hard I almost had my orange juice come out my nose. Yup, Guess that would describe me.
I would consider paying someone but who? I don't know anyone who does that and what it costs.
I'd like to learn it anyway. I have lots of books and more on the way, track on the way, even paper track templates on the way. I'm not really in a big rush I just want to know a lot in a short period of time. So now that I the time I'm gonna read and digest all the information I have.
This little runaway train will be on the Island Of Sodor.
' So now that I the time I'm gonna read and digest all the information I have."
Now you're talkin'!
One of THE HARDEST things for beginning model railroaders to do is exactly what you just said. It would seem like this would be a very simple process... I mean, what the heck could be so hard about designing a layout! But the truth is this is a lifelong hobby that takes some careful planning to avoid costly and frustrating mistakes down the road.
Don't ask how I know this.
I'm still correcting a few things on my layout that I should have done correctly the first time around. But I promise it will all start to come together given time.
Jarrell
Paul_in_GA I'd like to learn it anyway. I have lots of books and more on the way, track on the way, even paper track templates on the way. I'm not really in a big rush I just want to know a lot in a short period of time. So now that I the time I'm gonna read and digest all the information I have. This little runaway train will be on the Island Of Sodor.
Hi
I think someone on this forum said every new modeler will build at least three layouts.
I started with a 4' X 12', four revisions later it is now 5' X 30' and it still seems too small.
IMHO, start with just a large portion of you plan and lay out the track temporary with a 22" template so that you get an idea how this looks in your mind. I don't run modern diesels, They are just too long. I stay with short cars and my newest Diesel is an EMD 40. The two largest steam are a 2-6-6-2 and a 4-8-2 heavy mountain. My balloon turn around track is 18' radius and they all make it just fine.
With your space, you may want to use smaller equipment. Just a thought.
Good luck and have fun.
Lee
yankee flyer Paul_in_GA I'd like to learn it anyway. I have lots of books and more on the way, track on the way, even paper track templates on the way. I'm not really in a big rush I just want to know a lot in a short period of time. So now that I the time I'm gonna read and digest all the information I have. This little runaway train will be on the Island Of Sodor. Hi I think someone on this forum said every new modeler will build at least three layouts. I started with a 4' X 12', four revisions later it is now 5' X 30' and it still seems too small. IMHO, start with just a large portion of you plan and lay out the track temporary with a 22" template so that you get an idea how this looks in your mind. I don't run modern diesels, They are just too long. I stay with short cars and my newest Diesel is an EMD 40. The two largest steam are a 2-6-6-2 and a 4-8-2 heavy mountain. My balloon turn around track is 18' radius and they all make it just fine. With your space, you may want to use smaller equipment. Just a thought. Good luck and have fun. Lee
My son and I were thinking about two lines. One for the U23B and one for the switcher.
One dumb question though is how do you measure radius? Do you use PI? Is 22" or 20" or whaterver measured across the widest point equal to 22"? Just curions.
Too much, too soon. That is the general sense of the various replies, and I wholeheartedly agree.
You have to learn to walk before you can run.
I know that the OP is skilled and talented in many areas, as he has indicated.
It is not the lack of skill or talent that concerns us.
It is the lack of experience. Track laying is both an art and a science. Trains will derail. The operator will get frustrated. It takes time and experience, and, yes, failure, to get it right. Turnouts and crossovers only complicate matters.
Yes, you can use Tortoises to control turnouts, but they need to be wired, they need to be controlled, they need to be reset. Trains will derail. The operator will get frustrated. It takes time and experience, and, yes, failure, to get it right.
The OP wants to elevate track. Grades are complicated. Track may not be stable and secure. Trains will derail - - - and fall. The operator will get frustrated. It takes time and experience, and, yes, failure, to get it right.
I rarely get the sense that a newbie is over his head, but I have to say, in this case, I fear it.
To the OP, I say, take your time, start small, gain experience, learn from your mistakes.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Too much, too soon. That is the general sense of the various replies, and I wholeheartedly agree. You have to learn to walk before you can run. I know that the OP is skilled and talented in many areas, as he has indicated. It is not the lack of skill or talent that concerns us. It is the lack of experience. Track laying is both an art and a science. Trains will derail. The operator will get frustrated. It takes time and experience, and, yes, failure, to get it right. Turnouts and crossovers only complicate matters. Yes, you can use Tortoises to control turnouts, but they need to be wired, they need to be controlled, they need to be reset. Trains will derail. The operator will get frustrated. It takes time and experience, and, yes, failure, to get it right. The OP wants to elevate track. Grades are complicated. Track may not be stable and secure. Trains will derail - - - and fall. The operator will get frustrated. It takes time and experience, and, yes, failure, to get it right. I rarely get the sense that a newbie is over his head, but I have to say, in this case, I fear it. To the OP, I say, take your time, start small, gain experience, learn from your mistakes. Rich
Well said Rich, I am the OP and I have to agree with you. I have the skills but NOT the experience. But I'm a fast learner. I tend to do mockups of eveyrthing first then build things. I thought the same might apply to a model RR. Make a mock-up and see what works and what doesn't. I could use some cheap materials and make a start of it. But I have a lot to read, and watch and then I have the learning kits on the way. I know I can do this. My motto in life is this, "If another human being can do it I can do it too". Hasn't failed me yet.
But you bring up some bery good points and they are well taken and I will make SURE I listen to you guys as you have the experience. Thanks.
Paul (OP)
Paul, that is good to hear, but if I were you, I would do a lot less reading and a lot more track laying.
Just build a double main line in an oval shape and add a couple of crossovers, maybe with powered Tortoises, if you will. Just build it on a 4' x 8' table. Something you can easily tear down and start all over once you gain experience.
That will get you a lot of experience, a lot quicker, than reading a lot of books.
Paul_in_GA My son and I were thinking about two lines. One for the U23B and one for the switcher. One dumb question though is how do you measure radius? Do you use PI? Is 22" or 20" or whaterver measured across the widest point equal to 22"? Just curions.
I'm having trouble posting a picture. OK, Got it. I used a yard stick with two holes it 22" apart. put a nail through one hole and a pencil through the other and draw a quater circle. I did this 18" through 22". Then cut put the templates out.
Have fun.
Paul,
Although Yankee Flyer gave an excellent "how to" (I used to do it that way myself, until I needed a radius longer than a yard for a woodworking project and bought a set of clip on trammel points, one of which holds a pencil -- but DON'T run out and just buy one; a string tied to a pencil and a nail works too), I think the real answer to your question is "track centerline". That's how we measure just about everything in this hobby.
I'm glad to hear that you build mock-ups. I said in my last post, and I'll say again, just go build something, knowing it's a throwaway. You can probably salvage parts of it anyway -- much of my track has been reused several times, and some of my trees have survived three or more "transplantings".
This is especially true since I noticed in a recent post that your son is involved. He won't stay interested in a theoretical layout for long, so get something up and running. A simple oval on a sheet of cheap plywood with a couple of sidings will do for a start. Run trains. This will give you a quick lesson in both track-laying (what works and where you have to be careful) and which locos will handle 18" or 22" curves. Then you'll get some minimum performance criteria. Using this, you can move to an intermediate layout while you pull ideas for your dream layout together.
Hi Paul
I'm late in seeing this, but welcome to the forum and the hobby.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Well Paul I see you are staying around the forum, that is a good sign! We have way to many new people that post 1 or 2 times and they never answer to what we post.
On your room, having a hard time fitting a layout in the offices? Why not do it the other way around, fit a offices in the train room?
When you build your bench work, plan it where you can put book shelf's under the layout. Add a few kitchen cabinets on the wall for higher storage. Build the bench work so it is level with or a little higher than your desk.
With this being a long thread, I may have missed some changes in your plain. At one point you where talking about a 4 X 14 layout and 12 inches from the wall? One of the biggest mistakes I have made with my current layout is it is to wide at 44'" and it is against the wall. (Started life as a HO slot car layout) That section will never be detailed because when I do have a problem, I would smash any details I would have added.
Now with what I have said, I am going to bring up around the room layout.
While looking at the picture I have posted try to in-vision your room and adding a offices to it. I think you said one of your hobby's was wood working, correct? If so think about finishing the bench work as furniture, it dos not have to be ugly.
Radius, a 22 inch radius need 44 inches to make a 180 degree turn. a 18 radius needs 36 inches. Sure eats up a lot of room to turn the train around doesn't it! All so a 22 inch turn is not big, longer cars and engines will look silly going around them. Now like me, with you just getting started you will just be happy they don't derail I know I was. Now that I have been doing this for 7 years it bugs me.
Back again to the round the room layout. Here is the big advantage, you never have to do a 180 degree turn! In a corner that shelf is only 24 inches you have the room to make a 32 to 36 inch turn! That will handle any sizes engine or car you want to run.
Back to your room, if the door going into the layout room open inward? If you can, change the door so it opens outward, that will help. You never said what kind of door your closet has? Sliding doors?
You will need a swing out section or a lift out section for around the room. Here is a link for you to look at. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/207166/2268050.aspx#2268050
I may be moving and will have to give up my 2 car garage sizes layout. If I do, I will build a around the room layout!
Far as track planing My self I started with this
Then started adding track
and more
Till I got to this.
Last pictures is the section I call K-10 mining in honor of my LHS K-10 model trains.
See you latter.
Ken
I hate Rust
yankee flyer Paul_in_GA My son and I were thinking about two lines. One for the U23B and one for the switcher. One dumb question though is how do you measure radius? Do you use PI? Is 22" or 20" or whaterver measured across the widest point equal to 22"? Just curions. I'm having trouble posting a picture. OK, Got it. I used a yard stick with two holes it 22" apart. put a nail through one hole and a pencil through the other and draw a quater circle. I did this 18" through 22". Then cut put the templates out. Lee Have fun.
AWESOME!!!!!!!!
Thanks. This is great. I can do this in five minutes! Cool!
Thanks CT, this I will do. More good advice. Right now I am just starting, yesterday my son and I rmeoved wallpaper from one wall, I already moved my very heavy desk and will most likely have to do it again. I guess when starting it ALL boils down to how much space you have to work with.
Ken, those are cool photos, it shows the evolution of it. I would have quoted it but the text gets all messed up.
Anyway, I like the progression. It looks like you live in a warehouse it's so BIG! My house isn't even that big. I don't even have a basement. You must have a LOT of room! Nice!
yankee flyer I'm having trouble posting a picture. OK, Got it. I used a yard stick with two holes it 22" apart. put a nail through one hole and a pencil through the other and draw a quater circle. I did this 18" through 22". Then cut put the templates out. Lee
===>>> Warning: OT
Lee or anyone - could you tell me just what the process for posting a photo in a message is? When I used the Insert Image icon/button, I was given a choice of URL or Search Site. Do you have to preload the photo to one of the albums? How can you browse images on your own computer and insert from there ?
thanks, Charles
Paul, are you dead set against around the room layout? If not I was going to work up a track plan for one for you to think about.
Here's one I did for my self.
I scraped that idea when a fellow site member came up with this one for me.
If I stay in the house, that the one I am doing. Far as the room sizes, it is 29 feet by 19.
How I came up with what I have now just started laying track and drinking Current layout is 174 square feet.
I like my current track plan, except for one spot.
See where the track in the center makes a left? Part of the turn is 22 inch and the top of the turn is 18. It then goes through a diamond (track is a cross shape and go in two different detections). My big Diesels slow down when pulling a heavy train. Tighter turns cause more drag on the wheel sets.
If you don't want to go around the room, look at a U shape or a L as you have talked about.
On grades (Inclines) as mentioned a 2% grade takes 100 inches to go up 2 inches. 14 feet has only 168 inches. Something to think about. My vision on a round the room layout is to have one track 6 to 8 inches high all the way around. Either use it as a separate loop or just one grade up. OK, you would have to back the train down the grade to get to the lower section. I am sure there is a prototype out there some where.
If you like, I will draw up a plan for you to think about. What to you want to run? Coal, wheat, Beer Trains I like Beer!
Let me know if I can help.
cudaken Paul, are you dead set against around the room layout? If not I was going to work up a track plan for one for you to think about. Here's one I did for my self. I scraped that idea when a fellow site member came up with this one for me. If I stay in the house, that the one I am doing. Far as the room sizes, it is 29 feet by 19. How I came up with what I have now just started laying track and drinking Current layout is 174 square feet. I like my current track plan, except for one spot. See where the track in the center makes a left? Part of the turn is 22 inch and the top of the turn is 18. It then goes through a diamond (track is a cross shape and go in two different detections). My big Diesels slow down when pulling a heavy train. Tighter turns cause more drag on the wheel sets. If you don't want to go around the room, look at a U shape or a L as you have talked about. On grades (Inclines) as mentioned a 2% grade takes 100 inches to go up 2 inches. 14 feet has only 168 inches. Something to think about. My vision on a round the room layout is to have one track 6 to 8 inches high all the way around. Either use it as a separate loop or just one grade up. OK, you would have to back the train down the grade to get to the lower section. I am sure there is a prototype out there some where. If you like, I will draw up a plan for you to think about. What to you want to run? Coal, wheat, Beer Trains I like Beer! Let me know if I can help. Ken
Ken, first of that is awesome, I am green with envy. Amazing. I can't do a room-sized layout. I spent the weekend with my son removing a wallpaper mural from one wall.
Then I moved my desk, which is very cumbersome to the place either you or someobe else recommended.
I still have to paint the wall under the mural. But all-in-all I have a pretty good amount to work with.
I can resend the exact measurements, down to the inch where everthing is if you'd like.
I would love if you designed a conplex layout like you have in this post. I'd pay you if the price isn't too steep. You can PM me if this forum allows private messages.
Hard to type on my iPad when I quote large posts such as yours. But I would be very grateful, yes, very grateful.
As for cars, I have decided coal, I like coal plants, they look cool so coal it is, in a mountainous region with a tunnel and at least on incline. Then buildings below.
Paul you are making me . I am far from being a expert but I swear I made every mistake a Model Railroader could make! I even made some up on my own! But the layout runs well, just looks like Cabooses!
Your PM will be coming shortly.
On wanting a Complex Layout, Complex is not your friend! I have around 50 turnouts. I uses maybe 12 of them. We will talk, I type real slooooooooooow.
Paul, PM is sent.
Paul_in_GA cudaken Paul, are you dead set against around the room layout? If not I was going to work up a track plan for one for you to think about. Here's one I did for my self. I scraped that idea when a fellow site member came up with this one for me. If I stay in the house, that the one I am doing. Far as the room sizes, it is 29 feet by 19. How I came up with what I have now just started laying track and drinking Current layout is 174 square feet. I like my current track plan, except for one spot. See where the track in the center makes a left? Part of the turn is 22 inch and the top of the turn is 18. It then goes through a diamond (track is a cross shape and go in two different detections). My big Diesels slow down when pulling a heavy train. Tighter turns cause more drag on the wheel sets. If you don't want to go around the room, look at a U shape or a L as you have talked about. On grades (Inclines) as mentioned a 2% grade takes 100 inches to go up 2 inches. 14 feet has only 168 inches. Something to think about. My vision on a round the room layout is to have one track 6 to 8 inches high all the way around. Either use it as a separate loop or just one grade up. OK, you would have to back the train down the grade to get to the lower section. I am sure there is a prototype out there some where. If you like, I will draw up a plan for you to think about. What to you want to run? Coal, wheat, Beer Trains I like Beer! Let me know if I can help. Ken Ken, first of that is awesome, I am green with envy. Amazing. I can't do a room-sized layout. I spent the weekend with my son removing a wallpaper mural from one wall. Then I moved my desk, which is very cumbersome to the place either you or someobe else recommended. I still have to paint the wall under the mural. But all-in-all I have a pretty good amount to work with. I can resend the exact measurements, down to the inch where everthing is if you'd like. I would love if you designed a conplex layout like you have in this post. I'd pay you if the price isn't too steep. You can PM me if this forum allows private messages. Hard to type on my iPad when I quote large posts such as yours. But I would be very grateful, yes, very grateful. As for cars, I have decided coal, I like coal plants, they look cool so coal it is, in a mountainous region with a tunnel and at least on incline. Then buildings below.
Hi Ken, actually I'm not dead set against a wall layout. I learned I can do two things, 1) make it a foot or more off the wall, (I'm real skinny), or 2) put it on wheels! What a cool idea.
I would love your help Ken, it would really help me out. Thanks.
velotrain yankee flyer I'm having trouble posting a picture. OK, Got it. I used a yard stick with two holes it 22" apart. put a nail through one hole and a pencil through the other and draw a quater circle. I did this 18" through 22". Then cut put the templates out. Lee ===>>> Warning: OT Lee or anyone - could you tell me just what the process for posting a photo in a message is? When I used the Insert Image icon/button, I was given a choice of URL or Search Site. Do you have to preload the photo to one of the albums? How can you browse images on your own computer and insert from there ? thanks, Charles
I find it easier to just hardcode the thing in, using the [ img ] tags (note, I put spaces in there so the tag shows up).
for example:
Steps to get this to work:
1. Upload your photo somewhere that allows for "public" viewing (picasa, railimages, railphotos, photobucket, whatever)
2. Some sites (Photobucket comes to mind) will have a "share photo on forum" link displayed (or some variation of that verbiage) that you can copy/paste into the "create post" textbox. Other sites you'll need to right click the photo you want to share, and choose "View Image Properties" (or "View Image Info" or equivalent). You're looking for a URL with the "Location" information (e.g. "http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/smalllayout-1_3.jpg" for the above photo)
3. IF the link didn't come with pre-supplied [ img ] tags in the "Share" link, you need to add them. So, using the photo above (and the "Location" information), you type [ img ]http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/smalllayout-1_3.jpg[ /img ] (note that I'm using spaces so that you can see the tags, if you want the image to show up, don't use any spaces between the brackets and the "img" identifier)
4. Click "Post"
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site