I am a 18 year member of a club and my father's been in the same club for 21 years (I was able to join at 18 years old). Our club is 73 years old this year, and we have around 70 members. We currently occupy a 10,000 sq. ft. building in which we've got a layout room of over 6,300 sq. ft.
Our club is very rules orientated as we have discovered that clearly defined rules are better for long term stability than a few strong minded guys exerting their will just because they can. We are a 501(c)3 Not For Profit incorporated business with a 9-member board of directors, 5 pages of By-Laws and two pages of Rules & Regulations. We have monthly membership buisness meetings run in accordance to Robert's Rules of Order in which all of our 20+ committee chairman are supposed to give written reports with expenses.
I won't pretend it's all sunbeams and rainbows. We have had some serious squabbles (but no fisticuffs) that have led to resignations and hard feelings. Whenever you have a group of people, you're going to have at least a little conflict. The conflict itself is unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but the way it's handled can decide the fate of any club.
That being said, there are many people in this world that do not belong in a club. They literally cannot check their ego, and it's their way or the highway. One has to realize that one will not get one's way 100% of the time...perhaps not even 50% of the time. Everybody in the club has a say, and there's nothing that makes your vote count more than anyone else's. If one can reduce the sense of one's own self importance and work together with others to reach a common goal, then you'll do well in a club. If one cannot, then you don't belong. As the saying goes, the club didn't join you...you joined the club.
So while there are obvious drawbacks to any club, there are many benefits. Besides the ability to learn from others and the social gathering aspect of it all, there's also the ability to make some life-long friendships along the way.
Because of these friends that I have made in the club, I have been able to do things that I never thought I would ever get to do as a railfan. I've gotten cab rides in an F40PH and an FL9, I've been able to hold the original plans for Boston's South Station in my hands, I've operated real B23-7's, an SW9, an S-4 and an S-6, I had a summer job fixing up some coaches and engines for a tourist line, I've had lunch with John Engstrom of Athearn and gone drinking with Craig Walker of Microscale, I've gotten backshop tours of Amtrak's Southampton St. facility in Boston, I've been to Steamtown, Cass, EBT, and numerous other tourist lines & museums, I've ridden sleeper to Chicago, I rode the Acela from Boston to Washington, DC, and so on. And then there's all the model railroading I've learned. All because I joined a club. Could I have done some of these things without being a member? Sure, but I'd be doing it by myself or just with my dad. It's a lot more fun when you have more people who are your friends than just youself or with only one other person.
So are the pains of membership worth it? To me, they are.
Paul A. Cutler III
It's not always the club officers, but the members themselves. Some people are just intolerable to be around.
The club that I used to belong to had a ridiculous amount of committees. When I was assigned to a scene, if I wanted to add a building onto the layout, I had to go through the Planning Committee, the Scenery Committee, the Structures Committee, and several other committees (I wish I was exaggerating).
I soon came to the realization that I had less hoops to jump through for putting up a real structure than to add a structure onto the layout. I then came to the realization that this particular club was not for me.
__________________________________________________________________
Mike Kieran
Port Able Railway
I just do what the majority of the voices in my head vote on.
Johnnny_reb Yep, being a loner has its benefits. No one has the right to tell you what to do.
Yep, being a loner has its benefits. No one has the right to tell you what to do.
Except your wife.
Speaking of which, she insists on painting my backdrops...even though I'd rather try a crack at panoramic photostitches taken at those locations I'm modeling. Still, I'd rather have control over my own layout! When I belonged to a club, I viewed it as being for operations.
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
Sheldon
The Member sponsoring the months meeting has the option of Operating or having a Work Session.
Several of our GROUP have begun their own layouts with the purpose of conducting Operating Sessions.
This was before the GROUP began (as there were members of the NMRA Div)!
So it was just a change of Sessions (we don't call our get togethers Meetings - as it congers up thoughts of a structured MEETING) ! ;-)
So I guess we are pretty much in the same situation!
Although I do hold every other Thursday night OPs on my home layout as well as going to the Club meetings!
And if I looked hard enough I suppose I could be doing train related things ever night of the week - but then again I would be in real touble on the home front! ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
ATLANTIC CENTRAL cmrproducts: I am having a lot of FUN - sometimes 3 times a week PLAYING TRAINS (Club night - home OPs night - weekend OPs Group) ! So those that want to sit home alone and Play Trains - that is great - do what you want to do. But getting together with a bunch of like minded Modelers for an OPs session at someones nicely sceniced layout for 3 or 4 hours - then have a dinner together afterwords - is a lot of FUN too! It can't get much better than this! BOB H - Clarion, PA Bob, The operation group you describe is much like our Round Robin, but we also work on members layouts IF THEY WANT, and we keep our group small, about 25 active guys. It's more than enough model train socializing for me. Sheldon
cmrproducts: I am having a lot of FUN - sometimes 3 times a week PLAYING TRAINS (Club night - home OPs night - weekend OPs Group) ! So those that want to sit home alone and Play Trains - that is great - do what you want to do. But getting together with a bunch of like minded Modelers for an OPs session at someones nicely sceniced layout for 3 or 4 hours - then have a dinner together afterwords - is a lot of FUN too! It can't get much better than this! BOB H - Clarion, PA
I am having a lot of FUN - sometimes 3 times a week PLAYING TRAINS (Club night - home OPs night - weekend OPs Group) !
So those that want to sit home alone and Play Trains - that is great - do what you want to do.
But getting together with a bunch of like minded Modelers for an OPs session at someones nicely sceniced layout for 3 or 4 hours - then have a dinner together afterwords - is a lot of FUN too!
It can't get much better than this!
Bob, The operation group you describe is much like our Round Robin, but we also work on members layouts IF THEY WANT, and we keep our group small, about 25 active guys. It's more than enough model train socializing for me.
dknelson Clubs can work just fine but alot of folks are impatient with the idea of structure, process, and committees -- sounds like politics to them, and it is politics -- and without orderly ways to do things including meetings and committees, you are prone to just having the bossiest or most assertive personalities run the show. Some groups say "I like clubs but don't want any politics" - so as a consequence, there are no rules of order for meetings or resolutions and decisions, and what you end up with is a reminder of the famous statement that "war is politics by other means." If you decide to have no politics, the politics will just impose itself in the most brutal form. Dave Nelson
Clubs can work just fine but alot of folks are impatient with the idea of structure, process, and committees -- sounds like politics to them, and it is politics -- and without orderly ways to do things including meetings and committees, you are prone to just having the bossiest or most assertive personalities run the show.
Some groups say "I like clubs but don't want any politics" - so as a consequence, there are no rules of order for meetings or resolutions and decisions, and what you end up with is a reminder of the famous statement that "war is politics by other means." If you decide to have no politics, the politics will just impose itself in the most brutal form.
Dave Nelson
Dave, very well said. Rules, when done well actually can give a focus and freedom to what is being done in any organization. As a musician during most of my life, I learned way back in college that without rules, there are so many choices to be considered that what results is mostly a cacophony of noise with little meaning... gets boring very quickly. On the other hand I also subscribe to the words of the Dalai Lama, "Learn the rules well, so you will know how to break them properly."
Without officers, you have no program and no leadership except those who ultimately step up to do the same thing. Of course they were chosen by themselves. Anarchy ultimately leads to dictatorship whether it is in government or the RR Club. So, if someone doesn't like the new officers and what they are doing, Who elected them? Was there a choice for the person who would become the officer, or was it tag your it? I know of way to many organizations that have been destroyed because good folks wouldn't step up and do a good job of leadership.....
People seem to love to use the word politics as a negative, almost a dirty word.... But the definition of the word is: "Politics (from Greek πολιτικός, "of, for, or relating to citizens"), is a process by which groups of people make collective decisions." Much of this is best when it involves the entire group working for the good of the entire group, not self fulfillment, personal gain, and greed.
Just my thoughts here and some hope to get people thinking. Not a put down or condemnation of any club or organization or anyone's thoughts here.
73
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
I've belonged to a couple of clubs over the years and they ranged from a dictatorial regime to a lax atmosphere that nothing was ever done.
You just have to go see what fits you best or not go at all. The land of the free and all.
What I do have to say about the club experience is that I've learned a lot from others and have made some great friends. Where you lack the know how on a particular facet of the hobby, there's almost always someone who has that know how and is almost always willing to share that knowledge with you.
Unfortunately, there's no real foolproof way of finding out how much politics affects the atmosphere of the club except to join for a few months and see if it's for you.
There is only room for one trainmaster in my hobby, and my wife said I could be it.
Crandell
There are some big decisions to be made in any club -- DC or DCC, code 100 rail or something closer to scale, what weight to cars -- will non NMRA standards cars be allowed?, operating sessions (with layout design to match) or just running trains, is it OK to mix eras and prototypes or not. If you vote for committee members and they decide these things at least you had a voice but the desire to keep things loose and informal can be an invite to having a clique or dictator.
This is no plea for a complex bureaucracy but in my opinion, a modest amount of political structure can make the genuine need for decisions and rules more palatable. Things don't have to go your way every time -- but you do want and need a means for all to be heard.
cmrproducts I have belonged to a Club for more than 20 years. The real problem I have seen over the years is that the new members we get DO NOT want to bring up ideas at the meetings or at the committees. So then it seems that they only see the OLD HANDS doing all of the suggesting and this is where it begins - that it is one or two members club! We (the ones usually having to make a decision) have sit back (and not made any suggestions waiting) and let the others just float along and finally they either come up with an idea (which we usually put onto the layouts - as we have 3 different scales) or they leave. We sometimes hear later (that the members that have left) just did not like it that nothing was getting done - Yet they never spoke up at a meeting - probably afraid their idea would get shot down! Their Loss! Some people just expect everyone else to do all of the work so they can sit back and complain! They decide to build their own layout and then find out how much work it is and it just sits around half finished - did they learn anything from this - YEP - they get on the forums and complain! If our club was so bad how could it have survived 3 moves and a FIRE in 1990 ($75,000 loss) and still come back again? Some people are cut out to be members of a club and others are not! This same situation (as quite a number then joined the local NMRA Division) again little happened other than having long boring meetings and little model railoading (as in Operating the visiting layout that each of the members sponsored monthly)! GEE ! - that sounds just like a CLUB again doesn't it! Well finally certain members were shunned out as they kept trying tp get the NMRA group to have OPERATIONS at the monthly meetings! So they left and started thie own GROUP ! In this GROUP there were no MEETINGS (like a Club or the NMRA had) NO OFFICERS - NO DUES - NO RULES - NO NEED for any MONEY ! All we did was have an OPERATIONS SESSION as someones home each month. ALL scheduling was set up over the internet and an all electronic N/L was also sent out each month - showing pictures of the last months OPs. It included a few articles, layout info and member supplied pre-view pictures of the up coming OPs. We are slightly over a year old now and send out about 100 e-Newsletters each month. We have a signup on the internet monthly for the next OPs session and usually get an average of 15 members attending an Operating session each time! It has progressed to the point now that we are having owners of Operating Layout calling us to come have an OPs on their layout. I am working on our schedule for February of 2012 already! I am still a Member of our Club (and an Officer) still a NMRA member (just don't attend the meetings - as I was shunned out of) and was one of the leaders in getting the OPs GROUP going! I am having a lot of FUN - sometimes 3 times a week PLAYING TRAINS (Club night - home OPs night - weekend OPs Group) ! So those that want to sit home alone and Play Trains - that is great - do what you want to do. But getting together with a bunch of like minded Modelers for an OPs session at someones nicely sceniced layout for 3 or 4 hours - then have a dinner together afterwords - is a lot of FUN too! It can't get much better than this! BOB H - Clarion, PA
I have belonged to a Club for more than 20 years. The real problem I have seen over the years is that the new members we get DO NOT want to bring up ideas at the meetings or at the committees.
So then it seems that they only see the OLD HANDS doing all of the suggesting and this is where it begins - that it is one or two members club!
We (the ones usually having to make a decision) have sit back (and not made any suggestions waiting) and let the others just float along and finally they either come up with an idea (which we usually put onto the layouts - as we have 3 different scales) or they leave.
We sometimes hear later (that the members that have left) just did not like it that nothing was getting done - Yet they never spoke up at a meeting - probably afraid their idea would get shot down!
Their Loss!
Some people just expect everyone else to do all of the work so they can sit back and complain!
They decide to build their own layout and then find out how much work it is and it just sits around half finished - did they learn anything from this - YEP - they get on the forums and complain!
If our club was so bad how could it have survived 3 moves and a FIRE in 1990 ($75,000 loss) and still come back again?
Some people are cut out to be members of a club and others are not!
This same situation (as quite a number then joined the local NMRA Division) again little happened other than having long boring meetings and little model railoading (as in Operating the visiting layout that each of the members sponsored monthly)!
GEE ! - that sounds just like a CLUB again doesn't it!
Well finally certain members were shunned out as they kept trying tp get the NMRA group to have OPERATIONS at the monthly meetings!
So they left and started thie own GROUP !
In this GROUP there were no MEETINGS (like a Club or the NMRA had) NO OFFICERS - NO DUES - NO RULES - NO NEED for any MONEY !
All we did was have an OPERATIONS SESSION as someones home each month.
ALL scheduling was set up over the internet and an all electronic N/L was also sent out each month - showing pictures of the last months OPs.
It included a few articles, layout info and member supplied pre-view pictures of the up coming OPs.
We are slightly over a year old now and send out about 100 e-Newsletters each month.
We have a signup on the internet monthly for the next OPs session and usually get an average of 15 members attending an Operating session each time!
It has progressed to the point now that we are having owners of Operating Layout calling us to come have an OPs on their layout.
I am working on our schedule for February of 2012 already!
I am still a Member of our Club (and an Officer) still a NMRA member (just don't attend the meetings - as I was shunned out of) and was one of the leaders in getting the OPs GROUP going!
Bob, The operation group you discribe is much like our Round Robin, but we also work on members layouts IF THEY WANT, and we keep our group small, about 25 active guys. It's more than enough model train socializing for me.
Back in the 1960's I joined a club in Topeka KS. At the time I was in my 20's and working for Santa Fe in the GOB. The club was located in the old Union Pacific station, which was a large station and it was a great location. I was asked to do some scenery and I did. The club members approved it, then came the "sarge" from the air force base who was a member and ran the show. He didn't like the way I did the scenery, and tore it all out without anyone knowing until the next meeting. I spoke to sarge about it and was told if it didn't meet his standards it wasn't any good. I left that club and have remained "club free" ever since. Lone wolf works for me.
Bob
I once belonged to a club. I quit for the same reasons. When I first joined it was fun because I knew nothing about the hobby, I was learning new things every time we met. It was nice to get out every Tuesday night and work on the club layout. Then I would go home and apply some of the new skills I learned on my own home layout. After a few months it started to get to much like a second job. The big boss's , as I called them, had to many orders for the others like, Joe you have to do this, and Bill tonight I want you to do that, and Tom I need you to do the other thing. No, That was not for me, and that's when I decided to call it quits. The only thing I missed is having people around that I could ask questions about things I needed to do on my layout. I don't need that any more, now that I found out about this forum, and all the great people here that will answer anything I need to know. and thank you all for that.
Sam
I had been with several clubs in the US and overseas up until the mid 80's. There's a club in Alexandria I think but I'll not be a member there. Too far to drive. I've been a lone wolf since 1986 and I prefer it that way. The only rules I have to follow are my own and I don't have to have a bunch of people examine every little change I want to make.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
richhotrain I have never belonged to one and, from what I have heard here and elsewhere, I never will join a club.
I have never belonged to one and, from what I have heard here and elsewhere, I never will join a club.
Please don't swear off of clubs because a few have trouble. Keep in mind that for every one person who does not fit in a club there are many who do. Also not all clubs are like those mentioned in a bad way. Also not many satisfied club memebers will just pop in and say "I love my club" Usually it's and event such as the OP's that brings the subject forward and of course those in agreement come in to sort of console them.
Now I'm not in a club myself either because I'm just not a "clubby" person. I don't feel I have the time cash or ability to participate up to my fair share so to speak. Plus my aspirations, shall we say, are not what makes for a good club layout. I have never sought out the local club either so I have no idea if my views are in fact different but that's just the way I am, a lone wolf anyway and quite frankly feel my abilities and knowledge of prototypes may be somewhat of an emarassment to myself so... I guess I'm still a bit shy even after all these years. Who knows. Maybe someday.
Remember, these guys who write about the clubs being problems are not the majority of club members nor are they talking about all clubs. Just the few they have been in. Are these guys wrong for expressing their view. No way. They have their reasons for either quiting or not joining just like me and you, and every right to say so. But if you ask them, I'm sure that even those that have been soured on clubs because of the way their club worked, I'm sure they would say that their club is not necessarily the same as another somewhere else.
Clubs are an important part of this hobby for many reasons and I'd hate for all clubs to get a bad rep for the few that deserve it.
Just my opinion.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
I once belonged to a club, left for similar reasons.
I now belong to a round robin group, all the social side of the hobby you could want without any of the club problems.
If you want help with your layout, the guys will help, if not, that's fine with them too.
You can be as involved or un=involved as you like, but you get to see what others are doing and share what you have done. It's truely the best of both worlds for me.
No dues, not building, no group layout, no politics, no bosses.
I'm member of FREMO (Friendship of European railway modellers), the goal are the meetings with a modular setup. For 37.50Euro you're a member and get the quarterly magazine. This is not the usual club with problems. You drive to the town where the meeting is and have fun. Usually you announce your participation, important when you want to participate with modules.
What else? I have a layout in my basement. Sometimes I run it with friends, an op session!
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
I my younger days, I had also been a member of a club. When we had a change in club officers, we also had a change how the place was run. At that time, many of the older members left, including me. I have been a lone wolf ever since, well that´s only partly correct. I am still a "member" of a round robin group which meets twice yearly to run trains. But that´s pure fun, no club by-laws to spoil it.
Interesting discussion here about clubs. I have never belonged to one and, from what I have heard here and elsewhere, I never will join a club. I run trains solo, and it is fun, but i sometimes wish that I had a few local friends who would enjoy running trains together. But, alas, it is only me.
Rich
Alton Junction
After inquiring into joining a couple of local clubs, I came to the quick solution that they would not be a good fit for me. Too many rules & regulations, especially about era being modeled
I like lone-wolf, you can invite friends over & not have to worry about non-sarcastic ridicule.
Gord
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Sounds like the HOA where I live, certainly don't need that in hobby.
One of the biggest benefits of the hobby for me has been having one area of my life where I have total control. Not to denigrate clubs, as some folks have reported good ones, but I did the group thing at work for many years before retiring.
It's like the old joke - how many people does it take to change a light bulb? one if I do it myself, five if I have help.
Enjoy
Paul
aloco Well, after about twenty-five years of being in a model railroad club, I've decided to call it quits. It used to be fun, but now there are some members who act like they own the club and the club layout and they are bossing the rest of us around. And I can't challenge them either. Whenever I come up with any ideas or challenge theirs they talk to me like I'm stupid. When it gets to that point I figure it's time to leave.
Well, after about twenty-five years of being in a model railroad club, I've decided to call it quits. It used to be fun, but now there are some members who act like they own the club and the club layout and they are bossing the rest of us around. And I can't challenge them either. Whenever I come up with any ideas or challenge theirs they talk to me like I'm stupid. When it gets to that point I figure it's time to leave.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
Been there, done that, have the club hearld box cars...
Interestingly, I learned that two clubs that were taken over as private fiefdoms rolled over and died shortly after I departed. Seems I wasn't the only one who couldn't stomach the new regimes.
The absolutely nicest thing about having my own model railroad in my own abode is that I can do, or not do, whatever I please at whatever hour pleases me - in my PJs and slippers, if the muse calls at 0-dark-hundred. The second nicest thing is that I don't have to fly every new idea past a commitee.
Of course, there is the problem that the only expert (fillintheblank) available is the one pounding this keyboard. Somehow, I think I can handle that. If I'm stumped, all I have to do is launch a thread on the forums...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)