richhotrainWow, this is truly the Energizer Bunny thread.
Wow, this is truly the Energizer Bunny thread.
Rich
Alton Junction
DigitalGriffin That is a very nice "rumor." RichHOTrain should be as happy as a pig in mud (if it's true.) Walthers always tried to put their latest kits onto a 4x8 sheet mainly for shows. I wonder how they are going to handle the massive stub ended Chicago station. They will require a lot of WYE turnouts which are considerable space hogs. I keep hoping for a "George Washington" Richmond VA station. (Serviced by the Seaboard, C&O, and Amtrak) But I'm not holding my breath. The station is actually quite compact for a large city station, but depends entirely on elevated trestles above city streets. Just to the South was the Southern RR.
That is a very nice "rumor." RichHOTrain should be as happy as a pig in mud (if it's true.)
Walthers always tried to put their latest kits onto a 4x8 sheet mainly for shows. I wonder how they are going to handle the massive stub ended Chicago station. They will require a lot of WYE turnouts which are considerable space hogs.
I keep hoping for a "George Washington" Richmond VA station. (Serviced by the Seaboard, C&O, and Amtrak) But I'm not holding my breath. The station is actually quite compact for a large city station, but depends entirely on elevated trestles above city streets. Just to the South was the Southern RR.
I would also love if someone were to offer the Main Street Station. I think Richmond Va would be an exciting area to model, with the triple crossing, viaducts sockhoe botton and the tobbaco warehouses
I'd like to see them offer the Panama Limited. The City of New Orleans was of course made famous by the song but it was a day train and Walthers likes sleepers for their featured train. Seems like the Panama Limited would be a good choice.
I would think the IC City of New Orleans would get a lot of votes, a well known train due to Steve Goodman's song, plus a train serving the north and south. It would be nice, if they do that, that the new car's paint matches the current IC cars Walthers has. If you're not aware, the GN Empire Builder cars have a much darker shade of orange than the previous Walthers streamlined GN cars had. I know the darker orange isn't correct, not sure if the earlier one was right or wrong. Either way, makes it hard to mix cars.
Got a Walther's online survey yesterday. Big list of transition era passenger trains to choose from. Was astonished to see the Central of Georgia's Nancy Hanks II along with some Southern named trains and IC's City of New Orleans. Raised an eye brow for Santa Fe's Fast Mail on the wish list. Put my two cent worth at the end for Central of Georgia's Man O'War and joint Cg/IC/ACL City of Miami and Seminole passenger trains. Got to believe and hope!
By the time the pullman got around to making C&O's pullman standards, the post war passenger business was collapsing quickly. So the C&O sold off most of their new cars because they couldn't support the business cost. (As someone else recently said)
http://www.cohs.org/history/passenger.shtml
Soon after, the C&O started merging with the B&O. You would find all manner of passenger cars mixed together. Heavyweight diners and heavyweight baggage cars were common on the modern C&O trains. You would even see some Dome cars mixed in from the B&O down at the Piedmont Stub/Richmond. I have photographs of such.
One thing Walthers did that was inaccurate was selling a P-S baggage car in the C&O scheme. These were only available on the PM. Rapido and Walthers Heavyweight C&O baggage cars are correct however. (But somewhat hard to find on fleebay) The troop conversion cars would be a better way to go. These were used well into the 50's I believe.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
richhotrain NP2626Why would this thread have come back to the surface? How much more mistaken could an orginal poster be about what was in the works at Walthers? LOLI wondered the same thing.It is called firstpostitus, dredging up an old thread for one's first post. Dunno why people do that.
NP2626Why would this thread have come back to the surface? How much more mistaken could an orginal poster be about what was in the works at Walthers?
LOLI wondered the same thing.It is called firstpostitus, dredging up an old thread for one's first post. Dunno why people do that.
NP2626 Had it been the Northern Pacific "North Coast Limited", being a Northern Pacific modeler I would have been mildly interested until I saw the prices being asked by Walthers! Why would this thread have come back to the surface? How much more mistaken could an orginal poster be about what was in the works at Walthers?
Had it been the Northern Pacific "North Coast Limited", being a Northern Pacific modeler I would have been mildly interested until I saw the prices being asked by Walthers!
Why would this thread have come back to the surface? How much more mistaken could an orginal poster be about what was in the works at Walthers?
LOL
I wondered the same thing.
It is called firstpostitus, dredging up an old thread for one's first post. Dunno why people do that.
Why would this thread have come back to the surface? How much more mistaken could an original poster be about what was in the works at Walthers?
MerrilyWeRollAlong, any forecasts on the future? Or, did you decide on leaving forecasts up to the meteorologists? At least they're right, maybe 50% of the time!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
coachriderIf it is the NCL, I sure hope they use the color drift cards now available from the NP Historical society. The colors on their previous runs were awful. If it is a true rumor, then I can't wait!
So..., no news of Walthers (or anyone else) releasing C&O Roadrailers? It was a pipe dream to think they would build a new model for a (probably) low volume run ( I think Roadrailers only ran Detroit to Chicago, and only a few years at that). I am very happy to see the E7 has the single round port hole; it matches photos I've seen of late 60's trains. Can't wait to get the E unit, (Wasn't the last E unit closer to $220?), either way, still excited; but guess I'll keep on having to build my own Roadrailers.lol
http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5
SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io
I get the idea that from previous posts here that Walthers is downsizing its trains and coming up
with what it THINKS WE modellers would like.I doubt there are enough Amfleet I and II modellers
out there.And why not ask us two years ahead what we would like to see two years down the
road? They could make it a contest as well with the winner getting the whole train! My vote would
at least be noticed like Southern Crescent or SP train during the mid 1950s or something!
As for the recent train I already have a PM baggage car and NKP 52 seat set of coaches so that
10-6 sleeper offer is a tempting repaint to NKP. I already have the NKP header decals!
So I'm tempted to do a City of - car or two.
I have posted photos of the unpainted samples of the lunch counter-buffet-lounge car (Chessie Club) and the C&O-style 10-6 sleeper that Walthers showed at the National Train Show in Grand Rapids, at http://www.pmhistsoc.org#news
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
sakel maybe it's amtrak, with the metroliner and the new consists.
maybe it's amtrak, with the metroliner and the new consists.
I would have to say no on that......heard a few days ago they were canceled because of a lack of pre-orders due to the ridiculously and stupid high prices Walthers was asking.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
Thanks for the info. I actually didn´t think about any particular stretch of this trip. But maybe that stretch where it´s consist was the longest. Alright, in that case that would make a 12 car train with all cars streamlined except the baggage cars and the diner, which would be heavyweight cars. Interesting to know. I never thought that C&O would keep heavyweight baggages and diners for so long on it´s flagship train.
De Luxe @ fmilhaupt: could you probably give me an early 50´s consist of the George Washington, formed with these new Walthers cars?
@ fmilhaupt:
could you probably give me an early 50´s consist of the George Washington, formed with these new Walthers cars?
Well, while my focus is the Michigan operations, one of the passenger car books I have has some consists for the George. Its consist changed as it progressed across the system in the 1950s, with cars added and removed. It typically ranged from 7 to 12 cars. Is there a particular stretch of its trip that you're interested in?
For example, on the stretch between Clifton Forge, Virginia and Hinton, West Virginia, you'd typically have:
* One or two baggage/express cars - Most typically the heavyweight car Walthers is discounting right now.
* Three coaches - The new Walthers streamlined coaches. Add one more if the train is running on Friday.
* A Lounge/Diner - This would be either the heavyweight car Walthers already has released, or one of the streamlined blunt-end observation cars built for Chessie connecting service. The streamlined car has not been released in any form. The Walthers heavyweight is your best bet- it's not an exact match, but it's the closest stand-in out there.
* Five 10-6 sleepers - The new Walthers streamlined sleepers. You could substitute an NYC 10-6 sleeper for one of these, since one car was an interline movement to St. Louis via the NYC.
The consist book information indicates that a full diner ran between Washington and Charlottesville, and that an RPO ran between Hinton and Cincinnati.
About the fluted C&O sleepers: I never saw a photo of such cars as well, I just thought that they maybe exist (maybe because I saw older non prototypical Walthers C&O sleepers). I´m not too familiar with C&O streamliner equipment yet, although the C&O is by far my favorite eastern road and passenger paint scheme (I´m more a SP, SF, T&P & MILW fan in general).
I do not believe that any of the 10-6 C&O sleepers lost their fluting while in C&O service. The B&O cars bought direct from C&O, there were 4 10-6, until the late 1960s. The 10 B&O sleepers delivered direct from PS were delivered with smooth sides. The 4 5db-observations C&O sold to the B&O retained their fluting into Amtrak.
I appreciate the information concerning the usefulness of the cars for other C&O service.
De Luxe Well, I think you can model the George Washington without any problems with these new cars. Just don´t use the PM lettered RPO and take an older Walthers C&O lettered RPO, and a couple of smooth side sleepers and coaches and there goes a nice streamlined George Washington. It would be interesting for me to know what car type was more present in a GW consist: fluted or smooth side cars?
Well, I think you can model the George Washington without any problems with these new cars. Just don´t use the PM lettered RPO and take an older Walthers C&O lettered RPO, and a couple of smooth side sleepers and coaches and there goes a nice streamlined George Washington. It would be interesting for me to know what car type was more present in a GW consist: fluted or smooth side cars?
I don't think that the C&O actually took the fluting off any of its 10-6 sleepers. At least I haven't seen any photos of the 10-6 sleepers in service on the C&O with smooth sides. The other railroads that bought the cars second-hand (such as the B&O and the IC) tended to remove the fluting, though.
Some of the the 5-double-bedroom-buffet-lounge-observation cars ran without fluting in the 1960s, though. Might those be the cars you're thinking of?
I look at this release as being like the UP City of Everywhere release from a couple of years ago. This has Walthers releasing several cars that C&O modelers can use, which are usable all over the C&O system, not only in Michigan.
Car-by-car:
* The baggage car - Used at one time or another all over the system. These two cars kept their Pere Marquette lettering, though later lost their fluting and skirting.
* The coach - the 52-seat coach was the backbone of the C&O passenger car fleet after 1950, allowing the C&O to retire or sell off lots of older coaches. Not all of them, though. They started to have their fluting removed in the 1960s, but started losing their skirting the mid-to-late 1950s. Walthers has that covered with the two coach variants.
* The coach-diner - This was a clever move by Walthers. All it required was a new interior and a roof vent for the 52-seat coach. I performed a kitbash like this a number of years back for the PMHS' newsletter. The coach-diners made it to many places on the C&O during their careers.
* The C&O 10-6 sleeper - This was the standard C&O sleeper. It pushed all of the heavyweights off of C&O trains, and appeared nearly everywhere on the C&O system where there were sleeper-equipped passenger trains (the Hto Springs branch was chiefly the domain of the 11-double bedroom cars). This is the car I've been going on about for years as the "missing link" that modelers of a number of other roads can use. The 10-6 was used on the Resort Special from Chicago to Petoskey.
* The Tavern-Lounge - On the C&O it was a one-of-a-kind. While it spent many years between Grand Rapids and Chicago as either the only food service on a train or at times augmenting a diner, it also found its way to the "traditional C&O" on occasion. This is a car I've wanted for years, but not enough to spring for a brass model.
* The RPO - Not a C&O car, not a PM car. 'just wears the paint and fills out the train. I'm overlooking it in my pleasure at their bringing out the other cars.
I think that this train was a smart move by Walthers. You can make an accurate consist for some of the post-1953 Pere Marquette streamliners (not all Pere Marquettes ran with an RPO), and can use the cars for other C&O trains.
Given production constraints and some question (in my mind, at least) of the wisdom of bringing out another 10-14 car train in the current market, this release makes sense. A small version of the GR-Detroit train from this era would have baggage car, optionally an RPO, two or three coaches and a coach-diner.
A GR-Chicago train would have a baggage car, optionally an RPO, two or three coaches and either a coach-diner or Chessie Club.
A Chicago-GR-Petoskey Resort Special would have a baggage car, coaches, Chessie Club (as far as Grand Rapids), one or more 10-6 sleepers, and frequently sleepers (heavyweight or streamlined) from other roads.
Plus, Walthers already makes the heavyweight baggage car that appeared on these trains fairly often.
Finally I can get more of the as-delivered fluted coaches with skirting. I've had use for about four more and haven't been able to find them recently.
My only disappointments are that according to a Walthers rep, the bridge will not be released as a product (it was strictly a photo prop), and that they went with an inaccurate car for the RPO. Alternatives to the RPO are the venerable Rivarossi heavyweight RPO, or a car made from a brass sides kit for the 80-90 series C&O heavyweight RPO that will be available in limited release later this summer from a Detroit-area modeler.
I'm quite happy with the outcome.
I really wish the Chessie would have become a reality. I really love the coal turbine, but that locomotive alone costs an arm, leg AND first born.
By the way: Too bad C&O sold it´s domes intented for the Chessie to the D&RGW! I think the George Washington would have looked great with a dome car and round ended observation, painted into the matching colors...
There were NO sleepers on the PM's. Second, the first and last cars were identical so that the consist didn't have to be turned in Chicago. Third....who are they kidding?
DigitalGriffin I called it. It's the C&O PM.
I called it. It's the C&O PM.
Well, no, it isn't. It's a bunch of cars PAINTED for PM. Though I think the baggage is correct. So, they did 1/7th. of the PM.
Ed
http://www.walthers.com/exec/page/pere_marquette
The catalog cover is always a dead give away.
Walthers must have known I have a massive C&O passenger collection:
2 FP- 7
1 E-7 (PM)
2 E-8
4-8-2 Heavy Mtn C&O George
and 52 Passenger cars (including RPO, baggage, etc) All C&O
They saw me coming. Too bad it's not the C&O Geroge. It would have been fun to build a triple overpass bridge or a Richmond Station. *sigh*
I wonder if they will offer a station for the PM
<dupe>
<dupe> Sorry.
Though I model the ACL, I'd like to see someone do the American Freedom Train, though it'd probably be in 2026- our 250th birthday if they produced it.