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WALTHERS TO ANNOUNCE NEXT PASSENGER TRAIN...

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WALTHERS TO ANNOUNCE NEXT PASSENGER TRAIN...
Posted by MerrilyWeRollAlong on Wednesday, March 09, 2011 11:58 PM

Walthers will soon announce their next passenger train...

Rumor has it that it will be Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited that will be tied in together with a Cornerstone Series replica of Chicago's Union Station.  Like the Empire Builder, the North Coast Limited will be offered in a variety of paint schemes: Pine Tree paint scheme (pre-1954), the Raymond Lowery two-tone green (post-1954), Burlington Northern, and Amtrak Phase I.  The train will be pulled by a Proto 2000 F7 A-B-A set of locomotives with DCC & sound and NP specific details. Ten cars will be offered:

PS Baggage Car (car # 400 - 405)

PS RPO/Dormintory (car # 425 - 429)

PS 56-seat coach (car # 500 - 517)

Budd Dome-coach (car # 550 - 558)

PS "Traveler's Rest" Lounge (# car 494 - 499)

PS Diner (car #450 - 455) 

Budd 4/4/4 Dome Sleeper (car # 304 - 313)

PS 8/6/4 Sleeper (car # 367 - 372)

PS 8/6/3/1 Sleeper (car # 350 - 364)

PS 4/1 sleeper buffet lounge oberservation (car # 390 - 394)

Union Sta)tion would be ideally served by their Broadway Limited and Twin Cities Hiawatha train sets along with the Union Pacific :City" service via their Milwaukee Road connection to Chicago.  Union Station is also ideal for Walthers' large selection of Amtrak equipment for modern era modelers.  Walther's will tout Union Station as an ideal substitue model for "Any City's" downtown station.

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Posted by navyman636 on Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:29 AM

Surprisingly detailed rumor. . . . for a rumor. . . . Smile

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Posted by ndbprr on Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:56 AM

Union Station will have two tracks and be two stories high.  The station itself will be 2" x 2" square so that it doesn't overwhelm all the layouts with 18" radius curves.  The two platforms will be 4" long.  Walthers will call it massive and charge an estimated $200 for it. 

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:04 AM

It's nice of Walthers to keep producing these sets, but how many of us can really run them?  These are all very long trains, requiring large-radius curves.  I, for one, don't have the acreage needed to support passenger operations of this magnitude.

My relatively short Rivarossi cars - 3 coaches and a baggage car typically run with one or two Railway Express reefers on the head end, is about the most I can handle.  Even then, as I look in the windows, I see that most of the seats are empty.

"Sixteen cars, and sixteen restless riders, 3 conductors and 45 sacks of mail...."

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Santa Fe Rick on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:51 AM

Sounds great! I like Walther's passenger cars ad hope they will eventually offer Missouri Pacific "Eagles" or a selection of cars to make up one of the several "Eagle" consists. Maybe offer a kit of the Little Rock,Arkansas,Kansas City or Dallas Union Station. Or even...we can dream.. the St.Louis Union station?Wink

 

Rick

 

Santa Fe - All the way! Missouri Pacific - Route of the Eagles! 

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Posted by jrbernier on Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:12 AM

Nice Rumor,

  The 'Pine Tree' edition never had the Budd Domes, Diner, or Slumbercoach.  The 'Lowey' scheme had those new cars.  If they are going to do a mid-50's or later train(as they did with the EB and Hiawatha), then they will have a train.  IIRC, some of the original NCL equipment went to the Mainstreeter when the NCL go re-equipped.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:26 AM

Usually it is the advance peeks at next year's catalog cover that starts the rumor mill going, but I know that the research team at Walthers also beats the bushes pretty thoroughly casting around for photos and info for their trains.  Some folks get wind of this kind of info pretty early on. 

Somewhat OT but years ago I was railfanning the BN at Wataga IL (north and east of Galesburg on the old CB&Q main) and there were two BN work train MOW baggage cars on a siding.  One was clearly an old Burlington "Havelock" baggage car.  The other was a mystery, until we looked closely at the inner rounded corner of the frame around a baggage door -- and saw the classic Lowey two toned paint scheme for the NP!   Some NP stencils on the underbody air brake reservoir confirmed the identification.  This was a couple of years before the BNSF merger or takeover or whatever you want to call it.

Dave Nelson 

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Thursday, March 10, 2011 10:00 AM

That is a very nice "rumor."  RichHOTrain should be as happy as a pig in mud (if it's true.)

Walthers always tried to put their latest kits onto a 4x8 sheet mainly for shows.  I wonder how they are going to handle the massive stub ended Chicago station.  They will require a lot of WYE turnouts which are considerable space hogs.

I keep hoping for a "George Washington" Richmond VA station.  (Serviced by the Seaboard, C&O, and Amtrak) But I'm not holding my breath.  The station is actually quite compact for a large city station, but depends entirely on elevated trestles above city streets.  Just to the South was the Southern RR.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by R. T. POTEET on Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:34 PM

I picked up a rumor it was going to be The Panama Limited . . . . . . . . . . I'm not an IC-fan but for some reason or another everytime this subject comes up the first thing that comes to mind is The Panama Limited

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

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Posted by chutton01 on Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:48 PM

My understanding is that the next passenger train set will be the late-1968 version Penn Central Cincinnati Limited:

Locos: 4291, 4309
Mail car ACL: 1669
Sleeping car: Little Miami Rapids
Coach: 4006.

All locos will feature Walthers new Lead-Plated Finishes,  complete with XTREME!1! pre-weathering (twice the dirt, rust, and grime as the competitors) and extra randomly applied  handrails & antennas.
The interior of the coach will come compete with detailed worn-out seats, broken shades, and torn carpet.  Preiser will offer an exclusive trash/rubbish/paper littering detail set for this coach.
The Sleeping Car interior...will not be for the faint of heart.

Reserve NOW at your local Walthers dealer!

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Posted by ho modern modeler on Friday, March 11, 2011 12:08 AM

I still think they're gonna liscense the "Packer's Train" from Franklin MintIdea

Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!

 

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Posted by Flashwave on Friday, March 11, 2011 3:44 AM

Not an NP guy, but I would LOVE to get my mits on a Trveller's Rest, soley because the Friends of 4449 are restoring one and I'd like to toss it behind my model of 4449. I have a Kitbash someone did of her Aux Tender, and working on the cars. Slowly...  

-Morgan
PR, CEO of the Madison Railroad in HO. no, not that one, the one based off the City of Madison Port Authority.
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Posted by bozbobcat on Sunday, March 13, 2011 10:59 PM

MerrilyWeRollAlong

Walthers will soon announce their next passenger train...

Rumor has it that it will be Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited that will be tied in together with a Cornerstone Series replica of Chicago's Union Station.  Like the Empire Builder, the North Coast Limited will be offered in a variety of paint schemes: Pine Tree paint scheme (pre-1954), the Raymond Lowery two-tone green (post-1954), Burlington Northern, and Amtrak Phase I.  The train will be pulled by a Proto 2000 F7 A-B-A set of locomotives with DCC & sound and NP specific details. Ten cars will be offered:

PS Baggage Car (car # 400 - 405)

PS RPO/Dormintory (car # 425 - 429)

PS 56-seat coach (car # 500 - 517)

Budd Dome-coach (car # 550 - 558)

PS "Traveler's Rest" Lounge (# car 494 - 499)

PS Diner (car #450 - 455) 

Budd 4/4/4 Dome Sleeper (car # 304 - 313)

PS 8/6/4 Sleeper (car # 367 - 372)

PS 8/6/3/1 Sleeper (car # 350 - 364)

PS 4/1 sleeper buffet lounge oberservation (car # 390 - 394)

Union Sta)tion would be ideally served by their Broadway Limited and Twin Cities Hiawatha train sets along with the Union Pacific :City" service via their Milwaukee Road connection to Chicago.  Union Station is also ideal for Walthers' large selection of Amtrak equipment for modern era modelers.  Walther's will tout Union Station as an ideal substitue model for "Any City's" downtown station.

I would be incredibly happy if this was Walthers' next passenger train. I run my HO scale trains at a club in Livingston, Montana at the old Northern Pacific depot. This was the mid point for the North Coast Limited and it changed locomotives here. I hope that Walthers will do it, but I could see a little different lineup. It seems like 1959 would be a better starting point for the train. Some cars could have the Pine Tree scheme, and all could have the BN and Amtrak schemes. Here's my idea for a 11 car North Coast Limited.

1. PS Water-Baggage Car (car # 400 - 405) [1 car on train]

2. PS Mail-Dormintory (car # 425 - 429) [1 car on train]

3. PS 56-seat Day-Night coach (car # 587-599) [2-3 cars on train] Note change from original 56-seat coach-those were termed "day" coaches by the NP

4. Budd Dome-coach (car # 550 - 558) [2 cars on train]

5. PS "Traveler's Rest" Lounge (# car 494 - 499) [1 car on train]

6. Budd 48-seat Diner (car #458-463) [1 car on train] These were the new diners purchased in 1958. The PS diners went to the Mainstreeter and pool trains. Some of these diners are still serving Amtrak after 53 years of service!

7. Budd 4-4-4 Dome Sleeper (car # 304 - 313) [2 cars on train]

8. PS 8-6-4 Sleeper (car # 367 - 372) [1 car on train]

9. PS 8-6-3-1 Sleeper (car # 350 - 364) [1 car on train] Maybe Walthers could do the 8-6-4 sleeper without the 8-6-3-1. They're very similar cars.

10. PS 4-1 sleeper buffet lounge observation (car # 390 - 394) [1 car on train]

11. New Car: Budd 24-8 Slumbercoach (car # 325-334) This could be an optional car for those who want to model before 1959 or after.

This would represent the North Coast Limited's peak operation period from 1959-1962 and the consist until about 1967. I know I would buy one, as would many NP modelers. I think that Walthers has done well with its named trains and this would be a unique and colorful train to do.

The best reference about the North Coast Limited is Bill Kuebler's Vista Dome North Coast Limited. It's a very strong and comprehensive treatment of the NP's finest train.

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Posted by dknelson on Monday, March 14, 2011 8:07 AM

The latest rumor (which I am just starting now so I know it is the latest rumor) is that if you pre-order, Walthers will throw in a big baked potato.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by Forty Niner on Monday, March 14, 2011 8:27 AM

Bet you'll have to bake it yourself though...........nothing is ever RTE!!

Mark

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, March 14, 2011 9:44 PM

MerrilyWeRollAlong
Walthers will soon announce their next passenger train...

I haven't been able to collect / afford all of the last three sets.  Even though I model NP, what makes them think I could afford yet another set.

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Posted by Forty Niner on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 8:04 AM

From this point forward all "rumors" will have to be submitted for approval and a license will be issued for a small registration fee. To be submitted to "The Bureau of Rumors", Washington D.C. for approval. You can expect a reply in 6-8 weeks or as soon as the Federal Funding is approved for further upgrades.

D.A. Mann

Executive Director, Federal Bureau of Rumors

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Posted by garr on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 4:59 PM

For 2013, it is going to be the Georgia Railroad Supermixed. There will be two new Budd streamlined coaches, one Pullman 10/6 Sleeper along with the Ortner aggregate hoppers, the Greenville 7,000 cubic foot Wood Chip hoppers, the Sieco Pulpwood cars and an updated 50' waffle sided boxcar. The locos will be Proto GP7's and, in a joint venture, Atlas GP40's, all available in Georgia, AWP and WofA.

Walthers was wanting to release the set for 2012 however the Budd's still need an additional year of weathering out in the elements on the side of a Georgia red clay dirt road to achieve an authentic patina.

 

Jay

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Posted by RedGrey62 on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 6:03 PM

Of course if you're pulling the NCL into CUS, it needs to be behind some Burlington  E units as the Q handled the St Paul to Chicago portion of the run.  And in later years, it was the combind NCL and Empire Builder behind those E units.

If it is true, it'll be nice as the Q used some of the NP cars on some of its' trains.

Ricky

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:04 PM

Ricky,

You got me thinkin':

We got the combined Builder/NCL coming out of Chicago behind Q E's.  Excellent!!!  We get half (sort of) the combined Builder/NCL going from Spokane to Portland.  Even more excellent (for me).  

I like it.  I would do it!!  Them, that is!!

 

Ed

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:29 PM

7j43k
We got the combined Builder/NCL coming out of Chicago behind Q E's.  Excellent!!!  

I've seen videos of it running on the center track of a 3 track main.  There were four Es on the point elephant style.

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Posted by Pamela on Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:09 AM

Sigh Streamliners of the West, North and East are way over represented in model railroading. I am still hoping and waiting for Walthers to model long overlooked trains like The Crescent (1950 edition), The Tennessean (1950 edition), and The Texas Eagle (1952 edition). As a child I never understood why the model train industry had a blind spot in the South and Southwest when it came to modeling passenger trains. >:-(

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Posted by cats think well of me on Sunday, March 20, 2011 9:33 AM

Pamela

Sigh Streamliners of the West, North and East are way over represented in model railroading. I am still hoping and waiting for Walthers to model long overlooked trains like The Crescent (1950 edition), The Tennessean (1950 edition), and The Texas Eagle (1952 edition). As a child I never understood why the model train industry had a blind spot in the South and Southwest when it came to modeling passenger trains. >:-(

If you do not count the numerous car sides out there for Southeastern prototypes the industry has not given the region much attention. But you're right though, aside MTH's Powhatan Arrow coming out soon, passenger trains of the South haven't gotten much attention. I'd like to see both trains you've mentioned too :)

Alvie

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Posted by cats think well of me on Sunday, March 20, 2011 9:33 AM

Pamela

Sigh Streamliners of the West, North and East are way over represented in model railroading. I am still hoping and waiting for Walthers to model long overlooked trains like The Crescent (1950 edition), The Tennessean (1950 edition), and The Texas Eagle (1952 edition). As a child I never understood why the model train industry had a blind spot in the South and Southwest when it came to modeling passenger trains. >:-(

If you do not count the numerous car sides out there for Southeastern prototypes the industry has not given the region much attention. But you're right though, aside MTH's Powhatan Arrow coming out soon, passenger trains of the South haven't gotten much attention. I'd like to see both trains you've mentioned too :)

Alvie

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Posted by RedGrey62 on Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:00 AM

Pamela

Sigh Streamliners of the West, North and East are way over represented in model railroading. I am still hoping and waiting for Walthers to model long overlooked trains like The Crescent (1950 edition), The Tennessean (1950 edition), and The Texas Eagle (1952 edition). As a child I never understood why the model train industry had a blind spot in the South and Southwest when it came to modeling passenger trains. >:-(

I agree (mostly) with your assessment (I would consider all the various Santa Fe trains in the southwest).  I think it comes down to marketing as almost all the trains that are mass produced are transcontinentals or originate/terminate in high population cities.  Therefore the manufacturer has a broad base of modelers that may want the train as it ran through their territory.  Even the road I model, the CB&Q, one would think they only ran the Pioneer and California Zephyr.   Fortunately there are options to model the various trains but some cannot be modeled without tracking down, and paying for, high end brass models or serious kitbashing.

I believe if a manufacturer would come up with a "modular" way to build streamlined passenger cars, either Budd or Pullman Standard, they could build the majority of cars of the various trains.  The basic shell for a Budd car (aside from diners, baggage and domes) is the same for sleepers and coaches.  The differences are the window arrangement, undercar applinaces, skirting (full, partial, or none) and roof vents.  Of course the interiors would be arranged differently but they could be modular too.  I know there are other subtle differences but the cars would be anywhere from 95-100 percent correct as opposed to another Santa Fe prototype with another RR name on the side.

After all that, I would love to see more southern and additional southwestern roads done.  While I was in Tennessee, I was seriously considering modeling the Hummingbird.  However, I think the smaller trains need to be even more accurate than the transcons and I just couldn't find anything close enough.

Ricky

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Posted by 7j43k on Sunday, March 20, 2011 12:05 PM

If, for the southeast, there had been a dome train with a fully "color co-ordinated" consist, I think Walthers would have already done it (or, at least, have it up just after the NCL).  There wasn't; they didn't.  

But they're working their way down.  I expect they'll do something pulled by green E7's with roof-mounted air tanks.  But, I'm wondering whether they'll do the domalicious Wabash "Blue Bird" first.

 

Ed

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Posted by MerrilyWeRollAlong on Sunday, March 20, 2011 9:56 PM

[quote user="RedGrey62"]

 Redgrey62:

I believe if a manufacturer would come up with a "modular" way to build streamlined passenger cars, either Budd or Pullman Standard, they could build the majority of cars of the various trains.  The basic shell for a Budd car (aside from diners, baggage and domes) is the same for sleepers and coaches.  The differences are the window arrangement, undercar applinaces, skirting (full, partial, or none) and roof vents.  Of course the interiors would be arranged differently but they could be modular too.  I know there are other subtle differences but the cars would be anywhere from 95-100 percent correct as opposed to another Santa Fe prototype with another RR name on the side.

 

Walthers already uses a "modular" approach to the construction of their passenger cars.  All of the cars begin with a basic core-frame that interiors can be slid into, ends, sides, roofs and underframes are then attached to the frame.  The exceptions being domed and observation cars as well as some Amtrak only cars (amfleet, viewliner, etc) and short head-end cars.  This allows Walthers to make the sides and roofs unique to the particular car being modeled.  The only thing those parts need is to have their tabs conform to fit the core-frame.

The ends and the undersides are pretty much one size fits all with a few exceptions thus they have a tendency to be the least accurate part of the car.  Then again they are the least seen parts of the car when in operation and many modelers are more inclined to overlook the lack of detail or inaccuracies since to the ends and the underside since they are the least visable part of the car.

With that in mind, I think Walthers is missing the boat on a potential market when it comes to modelers who want to use brass or laser cut passengers sides.  I think a potentially successful product would be to sell a core-frame car with standard ends and a skeleton of an underframe. Core-frames would come with either a typical Budd, Pullman or ACF roof.  Trucks sold seperately.  All a modeler would have to do is attach his own sides to the core-frame, add any roof and underbody details as desired, paint the car and they're done.  Small "mom & pop" manufactuers or specific historic railroad groups could then sell passenger car sides that are compatable with the Walthers core-frame and do it in small batches to meet the needs of "not as popular" passenger cars/trains.  It would be more friendly for the model railroader whose skills aren't expert or very advanced. 

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Posted by Paul3 on Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:42 PM

I was just talking with a friend in the hobby biz about brass car sides and how much to make them.  For etching them into a 12" x 24" sheet intitially, you'd be talking around $500 for 4 HO cars worth (two sides for each car, plus window indents).  For each additional brass sheet, it would be around $75.  So for 4 cars, it would be $125 per car.  For 8 cars, $72.  For 12, $54.  And so on.

Of course, you'd have to have the info to draw the car sides correctly first, and then either draw or have them drawn for you.

Paul A. Cutler III

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Posted by Flashwave on Monday, March 21, 2011 4:09 AM

Paul3

I was just talking with a friend in the hobby biz about brass car sides and how much to make them.  For etching them into a 12" x 24" sheet intitially, you'd be talking around $500 for 4 HO cars worth (two sides for each car, plus window indents).  For each additional brass sheet, it would be around $75.  So for 4 cars, it would be $125 per car.  For 8 cars, $72.  For 12, $54.  And so on.

Of course, you'd have to have the info to draw the car sides correctly first, and then either draw or have them drawn for you.

Paul A. Cutler III

yeah, but I can't think of a historical society that can't find use for 12 carsides to sell.

-Morgan
PR, CEO of the Madison Railroad in HO. no, not that one, the one based off the City of Madison Port Authority.
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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:10 PM

By the looks of it,

2012->2013 will be the C&O George Washington

http://www.walthers.com/exec/page/13ref_books

YEAH!

Could we possibly have a Richmond Station in the works?

Or a triple overpass train crossing?

It makes a lot of sense because the Richmond station serviced the SAL, Southern, and C&O lines.

The triple overpass would be extremely neat on a layout, but would unlikely.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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