"What many of you are missing about brass models is that from the mid 90's and on to current times it has become a hobby within a hobby and in several cases...a hobby unto its own. Most new brass (could be close to 95%) purchased today will never see service on a model pike, but make it's home on a shelf or in a case, and purchased soley as a fine art collectible."
Howard, that's all well and good and more power to them. Personally, I have no interest in collecting ANYTHING, so while I do see the "craftsmanship value" in brass models, my only desire to own any model is for the purpose of doing what you have done in your basement and what I am doing above my garage - building a model railroad.
Not to be too snobish but:
I am more impressed by the guy who restores a '57 Chevy mostly by his own hand than by the guy who buys a Lamborghini, nor am infatuated with the Lamborghini, with enough money almost anything is possible - it's those who do more with less who are really talented and inpressive to me.
Same with model trains, when someone takes a Spectrum loco, fine tunes its running, kit bashes it into their desired prototype, paints and weathers it nicely - I am much more impressed then when they buy a brass loco and send it out to the local custom painter.
Howard, I have the greatest respect for what's in your basement, about your living room however I am indifferent.
So for me, I will always:
Drive the classic cars I have restored/owned,
Live in the Victorian home I carefully restored by my own hand,
Listen to the 1600 "collectable" vinyl records I own,
And I run the few brass locos I own (only bought because of the lack of specifc models in plastic - and bought cheap at that).
Having been "snubbed" by a few "collectors" because I cut up, modified, painted, weathered or other wise "destroyed" some rare "collectable" for my own purposes, I hold their hobby in the same level of esteem they seem to have for mine.
And I will not let the "values" they have placed on these items effect my hobby of building and operating a model railroad. So the only brass I buy is what I find dirt cheap - doing all I can bring its value down to earth.
And while I am ranting, one more thing - I have no problem with plastic models, they are models, they are in my case 1/87 scale. They are by definition small and by nature fragile. I don't need them made out of brass in an effort to make them "durable". I am able to handle them without breaking them and have had very few "wear out" in 40 years. But interestingly enough, some that did have wear 'problems" where brass.
So, as previously stated, I understand those who buy brass to get the models THEY WANT, run them or not. But you will not see me spending much of my hobby budget on brass, means or no.
Sheldon
Jim,
I believe that brass can become an addiction. I can easily see where after you buy one, then getting the next one is "easier". Then one starts to think, well they look sooo good and much better than plastic, I will get a few more so that I have enough of the main prototype I am modeling that I can run just brass. What a trap this could be!!
Then, one needs brass cabooses to go with the locomotives. And what about those great passenger trains that your favorite prototype ran? You just can seem to find plastic like that.
Craig North Carolina
"..............well they look sooo good and much better than plastic,..........."
That's a pretty broad generalization that I would consider far from the truth. Fact is, properly painted and placed in a working model scene, much of todays "plastic" or diecast is better detailed and better looking than a lot of brass, especailly brass from 20 years ago or longer.
A Rivarossi Allegheny is every bit as detailed as ANY brass version and better than most of them.
I will once again suggest that over scaled details make models look like toys and in HO scale details that can be clearly seen at 3' would need to be items clearly visable on the prototype at 261'.
But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup, some guns and some DC powered model trains.
Aikidomaster Jim, I believe that brass can become an addiction. I can easily see where after you buy one, then getting the next one is "easier". Then one starts to think, well they look sooo good and much better than plastic, I will get a few more so that I have enough of the main prototype I am modeling that I can run just brass. What a trap this could be!! Then, one needs brass cabooses to go with the locomotives. And what about those great passenger trains that your favorite prototype ran? You just can seem to find plastic like that.
Yes model trains in general can be an addiction.
Especially a problem when the CFO of your house doesn't approve, as I gather yours doesn't from what you previously said about ahving to hide it from the CFO I believe?
I am fortunate enough to be a "co CFO" in my household where BOTH CFO's are train nuts so when it comes to stretching the Santa budget for Xmas for example, we can agree!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I have followed this thread and the answer to the "worth it" question is clearly: It depends. In that the discussion has continued for awhile, I'll add my two examples each involving brass and modern plastic steam:
Example 1. When I was hired by the police department in 1976 and thus had a regular paycheck, I celebrated by purchasing a brass PFM Logging Climax (1976 run). I've always enjoyed Climax locomotives, and I changed mine to a coal burner (different smokestack & details) and painted it for my private line. Then about four years ago, Bachmann came out with a 2-truck Climax in plastic with great detail. I ended up buying three of the Bachmann locomotives. One ran for about a year and the two others failed to run out of the box due to the split gear problem. All three are inoperable now - one was sent back to Bachmann and they sent me a shay instead. The brass PFM unit was about $300 new and items like it sell for about $450 now (my paint and different stack would reduce its value from "mint"). The Bachmann plastic Climax locomotives were $150 each at train show prices, and are currently worth nothing. The PFM Climax is noisy by today's standards, but it is still in regular use on my layout and was a far better investment than the plastic.
Example 2. Around 20 years ago a Maryland & Pennsylvania 4-4-0 was imported in brass from Korea by Alco. I bought two of them at $150 apiece new. I have heard that some of the locomotives from this company developed gear problems, but mine still run okay (they haven't been used much). Then "recently", Bachmann came out with the Ma & Pa 4-4-0 in plastic. The brass models have piston valves and the Bachmann unit has the older style slide valves more appropriate to my modeling era. The Bachmann unit runs much better than the brass. The brass ones have likely held their value, but haven't appreciated in value much due to that history of gear problems and the availability of the plastic model of the same prototype. So the Bachmann 4-4-0 pulls passenger trains on my layout and the brass locomotives sit in the display case.
Is brass worth it - it depends on what you want.
Bill
G,
Aren't you the lucky one. I am earn the pay check, but I am not the CFO. Brass has to find "ways" to appear on the layout. Fortunately, I am still at the beginning of the construction phase of the layout. There is generally, only one or two locomotives on the layout at one time. This way, I can test the latest trackwork and electrical work. ALL other locomotives are back in the box, only to make an occasional appearance. Sooner or later, the locomotive will be out of "the bag".
Edited to shut my big mouth and stay out of other people's business.
Fred W
Moderator, you may delete this post at any time.
I've been into trains ever since I was 5 or 6 and received my first Lionel set. Then came Athearn HO around 10 or 11. I ran across a Model Railroader magazine a couple of years later and things haven't been the same since. Logging railroads have always been a big fascination of mine and when I use to see those PFM brass Shays, Heislers & Climaxs in the latest MR.... 'oh Wow and 'oh No...because I could not afford them. Well, fast forward some 45 years and now I'm retired with some extra spending money. I have rediscovered brass and have now been able to fulfill a boy hood dream. My display case has close to 2 dozen HO brass logging railroad engines with room for more. I could care less if they are worth it or not. All I know is I think they are beautiful and a day never goes by that I don't stop and look at them and say that to myself!
Bob
Seaboard Air Line Ry, "Through The Heart Of the South"
Logging Railroads: where the best *** geared engine ever made was the Willamette!