The suburbs north of New York City were a hotbed of model railroading from the days of the hobby's very inception, a region that once hosted better than a dozen model railroad establishments including arguably the largest model railroading store in America! However, the past decade or two has witnessed a very steady decline in regional hobbyist numbers and yesterday marked a grim milestone in that decline.
The last remaining brick & mortar model railroad hobby shop in the 150 mile stretch between the northern city limits of NYC and Albany, east of the Hudson River, closed its doors yesterday. It will now be over an hour's drive to any other store that caters largely to the model railroading hobby - and this in is a region where the population is well in excess of one million persons.
CNJ831
I am old enough to remember when even small cities had stationary shops and pen shops. Too specialized to make a go of it in today's brick and mortar world. Property taxes alone see to that. I am also old enough to remember when there were typewriter and radio repair shops -=- those are gone because they became obsolete.
I don't think model trains are obsolete -- I think it is more than the sheer mass of available items has made the brick and mortar train shop a very difficult commercial proposition given the internet and train shows. The trend is inescapable. It might not be due (or entirely due) to declining numbers of hobbyists.
I note that the same is true of other types of very specialized retail outlets: independent book stores, "record" (CD) stores, sheet music stores, -- the explanation is not so much a decline of interest but the availability of cheaper internet alternatives.
Like the book or record or sheet music stores, in all these cases, something is lost when browsing is no longer an available option. A good hobby shop serves many important secondary functions - social, bull session, clinics, posting notices, -- for the local health of the hobby. Unfortunately many of those functions make little or no money for the owner.
Dave Nelson
CNJ..
I have read many of your postings and you seem to have a decent grip on the status of the hobby today. First...what shop? And do you think that these many closings we so often read about are the hobby getting smaller or buying changes shifting to on line shopping. Or just poor business management? In my travels I have visited many successful train stores. Quite frankly I go out of my way to support these brick and motar shops as there lies the future of the hobby.
I grew up in northern Jersey (Teaneck) and during the decades of the 40's. 50's, and 60's and beyond this was once a hot bed of model railroad and general hobby shops. Every Saturday morning with my 50 cent allowance, I'd ride my JC Higgins across the Cedar Lane bridge, turn left on Main St in Hackensack and then pedal just a few more blocks to Hobbyland. The place was full of kids and bikes strewn about outside with customers waiting at the counter to purchase a "whatever". Are these happenings now a part of American folklore? But then again during this period, I could have pedaled just about a few more blocks further and spent the entire day just watching Erie K-1s on the points of so many three or four car passenger trains. Or hang a 180 and pedal back up Cedar Lane to the four track main of the West Shore (NYC) and watch the K-3Q's and Mohawks hauling passengers and freight. My generation was indeed lucky and these were our seeds. Today?? I just don't know how inspiring 3rd generation diesels and long strings of boring stack trains are. Possibly things are proportionate to the times.
Do any readers know of any new shops opening? Now, that would be a pleasant read!
HZ
It seems the only way brick-and-mortar stores can stay in business these days is to also have an internet mail-order business.
One of real close LHS has no internet service, and one about 45 mins away has a internet mail order business, Guess which one will likely survive?
I must admit, I am fast becoming a "buy it online have it shipped to me shopper".{I am usually a "tactile guy-like to see, smell, touch, taste, feel a product}. I can go to a store and look at something, maybe try it on, but I can get my exact size online when I can't in the store, or I can just look online and hunt and poke. And I have been inpressed with how quickly things come when ordered and have relatively almost never been disappointed, and so far and yet to even send anything back. I often even order from the LHS 45 mins away {wholesaletrains.com} as its a wash whether I pay for gas to get there or pay shipping to get it to my doorstep. If I go to the store, howver I can very easily be tempted to and sometimes do spend more!
I have friends who buy EVERYTHING online except food and autos. They, do however, do all thier research online for a car before a purchase. They did look up furniture and purchased some online and some at a brick and mortar store when tehy moved to a new {huge} house. They even bought their {large} area ornate rugs online.
Signs of the times and future I guess.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
We read about the internet taking over the hobby but what most don't realize is that many of the internet sites are in fact hobby shops. Those who stay with the times stay in business. Shops that rely on local business only and ignore the potential of the internet tend to decline unless they expand into other hobbies such as RC. Another reason many shops close is that the owners retire and cant find a buyer or don't try hard enough.
Springfield PA
John,I must ask why the shop closed..
Did the owner retire?
Was it health reasons?
Family health reasons?
Divorce settlement?
Poor stock?
Details John,details!
Everybody likes to moan the demise of their LHS but,very few if any gives any details.I know there is more to the story then meets the eye or gets told.
As Paul Harvey would say
Page 2!
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
--------------------------
We had a shop to close because of the owner's declining health..
As Paul Harvey would say..
Now for the rest of the story..
Another person bought the shop and will reopen it.
The owner of An Affair With Trains in Phoenix is Internet savy and aware of the pressures on his business even in a stronger economic climate. He issues weekly product, pricing, and promotion updates to the customer base via emails and he is working on a spftware update to allow e-orders.
He does special orders for the regulars without pre-payment. I do notice a high incidence of gray hair among the customers.
Hello CNJ sorry to here that your are losing another shop. OK Howard here is a little glimmer of hope. I seen a new Hobby lobby is going to open bye my work in Macedonia Ohio. I have never been to a hobby lobby before. So I not sure how good it will be. My lhs is in Bedford AL'S train and hobby witch is about 5 min drive from home. Then I can drive 20-45 min and fined 3 more. I just hope this hobby lobby does not but my lhs out of business. They are about 10 mile apart. Have a nice day Frank
CNJ831 The suburbs north of New York City were a hotbed of model railroading from the days of the hobby's very inception, a region that once hosted better than a dozen model railroad establishments including arguably the largest model railroading store in America! However, the past decade or two has witnessed a very steady decline in regional hobbyist numbers and yesterday marked a grim milestone in that decline. The last remaining brick & mortar model railroad hobby shop in the 150 mile stretch between the northern city limits of NYC and Albany, east of the Hudson River, closed its doors yesterday. It will now be over an hour's drive to any other store that caters largely to the model railroading hobby - and this in is a region where the population is well in excess of one million persons. CNJ831
A few thoughts:
As someone who once worked in the hobby/model train business, and managed a train department in a full line hobby shop, I can say I saw this comming 30 years ago.
I don't know if the hobby is shrinking or not, I'm not privy to any information that would confirm or deny that, but I do think it is changing in a number of different ways, ways that I do not see as good for the hobby or the retailers or the consumers in the long run.
Good retail stores once kept an INVENTORY of available items up to the limits of their space and money. Be it current business economics or changes in this hobby or both, that is not happening and is hard to do.
Why should I go to a brick and mortar store that has nothing on its shelves?
If the limited production, preorder, get it while its hot, RTR, high priced business model is here to stay, and there is nothing on the shelves to "see", why would I not just preorder by Internet and have it show up on my door step when the boat lands?
If model BUILDING is dead, than all those little bits and pieces I once stocked in my store must not be in demand, so those companies will go out of business or go to direct marketing, if they have not done so already.
Pricing policies are crazy today - not that They are too high (although I do think some items are), they do not reflect any sense of value on the part of the manufacturers. The inflated retails and large discounts are just a game - a game that has hurt the small retailer in order to support the high volume product that was needed at the begining of the move to overseas production.
I buy lots of Bachmann - never pay any more than 60% of the retail - that use to be wholesale!
I won't/don't buy much BLI/PCM, because of the "dump it after the suckers pay near full price" pricing policies of that company.
I don't/won't buy MTH for the same reason I dont/won't buy Marklin/Trix - no mater how good some items are/might be, I really don't want to support the "conversion" of the HO portion of the hobby into a RTR highrail like hobby of collecting toys. I'm interested in building models and building a model railroad - AND, both these companies, in one way or another, thumb their noses at established standards in the MODEL BUILDING portion of the hobby. With MTH its control systems and crude detail to make it "handling friendly", with Trix its similar, plus toy coupler mounting - they can keep their toy trains.
So, I think the industry has done this to themselves and the culture is changing - AND, model railroading as I understand it may be dieing. But, I have no simpathy for stores that can't make it or manufacturers who can't figure out what to sell or how to sell it. Let them go, if there is a market left, someone will fill it - retail or manufacturing.
One other point - I may be dead wrong, but I can't help but think all this duplication of product has hurt manufaturers and retailers. How many Big Boys?, K4's?, GS4's?, FEF's?, F7's?, etc, etc, is there a market for? All this has done is divide up exsisting market demand, it has not created ONE new customer or broadened the hobby in any way. 15 companies can make Big Boy's, I don't have one and I'm not buying one - regardless of features, detail or price.
At this point, if they want my money, they need to make sometihng NEW - never before offered, that fits my layout scheme.
Collectors vs modelers - collectors are lousy customers long term, their buying habits are based on emotions and how well the stock market is doing, and weither they have gotten bored yet. Modelers, at least most of the ones I have known in 40 years, be they ultra serious or very causal, spend roughly the same hobby budget year in and year out, for decades - or LIFETIMES. So by aiming too much product at collectors, manufacturers have created a kind of saturation and colapse - like many other "collectables" markets have experianced. Mike wolf did this to O gauge, now he's aiming for HO - problem is he is not on the ground floor this time, Bachmann, Proto and BLI beat him to it and the market is nearly saturated already.
So when the collector/RTR thing colapses, I will still be building "model trains". Maybe some company will want my money - we will see.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL CNJ831 The suburbs north of New York City were a hotbed of model railroading from the days of the hobby's very inception, a region that once hosted better than a dozen model railroad establishments including arguably the largest model railroading store in America! However, the past decade or two has witnessed a very steady decline in regional hobbyist numbers and yesterday marked a grim milestone in that decline. The last remaining brick & mortar model railroad hobby shop in the 150 mile stretch between the northern city limits of NYC and Albany, east of the Hudson River, closed its doors yesterday. It will now be over an hour's drive to any other store that caters largely to the model railroading hobby - and this in is a region where the population is well in excess of one million persons. CNJ831 A few thoughts: As someone who once worked in the hobby/model train business, and managed a train department in a full line hobby shop, I can say I saw this comming 30 years ago. I don't know if the hobby is shrinking or not, I'm not privy to any information that would confirm or deny that, but I do think it is changing in a number of different ways, ways that I do not see as good for the hobby or the retailers or the consumers in the long run. Good retail stores once kept an INVENTORY of available items up to the limits of their space and money. Be it current business economics or changes in this hobby or both, that is not happening and is hard to do. Why should I go to a brick and mortar store that has nothing on its shelves?
I'm going to suggest that there seems to be a lack of interest in brick and mortar stores precisely because stock no longer exists--we do not see inventory as an asset but as a cost factor. There needs to be a shift in our thinking here if one is to see any stemming of the tide as it were.
I'm also thinking that we need to keep encouraging the detailing of our locomotives and such so that there is a growing of that market. After all you can only expect collectors to go after this stuff so long---
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Not off the top of my head, but I do know of a shop that is now in its 2nd generation of ownership and has been in business for 30 + years. The owners of The Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA, both first and second generation, must be doing something right despite not having an Internet presence. It's a favorite hangout of a Saturday morning for the Silicon Valley miniature ferroequinology set, carrying N, HO, S, O (2 and 3 rail) and the near infinite variety of scale/gauge combinations available to the large scale set.
A lot of shops are sole proprietorships and go out of business when the owner retires or dies. Years ago, there was a shop in Sunnyvale, CA, The Engine House, owned by a rather eccentric gentleman named E.C. ("Easy") Schwafel. This shop was legendary for its owner's deficiencies in the people skills department, its dark and dingy interior (the dust on the stock was collecting dust) and its rather poor location. I don't recall ever seeing more than one other customer in the store any time I went in and you couldn't talk "Easy" into cutting a price break on anything in stock, even if it had been on the shelf since the Pleistocene epoch and any potential purchaser ran the risk of black lung disease in the process of removing layers of dust from the package to obtain entrance to the contents. Memory tends to fade with age, but I vaguely remember that :"Easy" would raise prices on stock that had been in his inventory for years for years when the manufacturer raised prices on new production. I quit going in 1975 and was surprised to find that the shop lasted until 1991:
http://links.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/1995/09/15/METRO6343.dtl&hw=amassing&sn=175&sc=207
My only guess as to why the shop lasted so long is that it was more of a hobby than a business. It certainly seemed to lack that most important ingredient for a successful business, paying customers. Despite the above article's emphasis on toy trains, The Engine House actually carried scale items in N, HO, and O. I recall going to The Engine House for maybe a period of a couple of years in a vain attempt to find something on which I was actually willing to spend money. A lot of that was probably due to the fact that there was no order to the way inventory was "displayed", everything had a layer of dust and the level of lighting was approximately that of a theater when the house lights are dimmed, but before the projector's been fired up.
The primary difference between then and now is that back then if a shop went out of business, the only people who knew (or cared) were those within its business area . Now, thanks to the Internet, we get informed of shop closures in areas where most of us would never do business because we don't live there and couldn't have had any effect on the shop's viability as a business anyway. Nonetheless, people several states away will don sackcloth and ashes and lament the demise of a business of which they had no prior knowledge and to which they contributed no revenue.
I have personal knowledge of several shops that have closed their doors for good. Of course, these shops closed their doors years ago, some before my children were born (all of whom are closer to 40 than 30). Shall we lament them as indicative of the decline of the brick and mortar shop? Fifty years ago, I spent my paper route money at a shop on Franklin St. in Santa Clara. We moved away in 1962 and I didn't get back to the area until 1970. It was gone. For a few years in the 70's, I haunted a hobby shop in the Town & Country Shopping off Stevens Creek Blvd in San Jose. It went out of business some time in the mid to late 70's. The shopping center no longer exists, either. There was another shop on Stevens Creek beginning about 1973/74 or so, but it was in Cupertino. The owner moved east about 3 years later, but did manage to sell the shop to someone else. IIRC, that shop was out of business by 1980.
Now that I think of it, the majority of shops I've ever done business with since I was a kid have gone out of business for one reason or another (not to mention manufacturers whose products I paid good money for). However, it's only within recent memory that the sub-hobby of lamenting the loss of hobby shops has gained widespread acceptance. Then again, ti's not that long ago that what some person had for lunch remained a private matter rather than being electronically posted for all and sundry to see.
FYI, I had pancakes for breakfast.
Andre
Geez....I gots me a railroad that needs building, but this is an interesting and important (and certainly well hashed over) topic.
What I have discovered in my many decades of partonizing hobby shops ( and even owning one) is that the success and failure lies fully within the proprietor. I sold my shop because I had an offer that paid me several times what I was making from the store....and that was not bad either! Here in Maryland we are lucky as we have several excellent shops that are run by folks who in addition to loving trains, are fine business men.
My railroad which dwells in a 2850 sq. ft basement could not have been built had it not been for the beyond excellent service from a shop in Gettysburg, PA.which is not far from me. The owner has run this shop for several decades and has made a nice living from it. He knows fully the meaning of service and follow up and listens to his customers. And he is successful!!!
Folks who would be potential model rails ( and we need them) doubtfully will be insired by a web site, as they must be able to see, hold, and be told not only about an item, but the hobby in general. Of course we have the many fine model train shows which serve this purpose well, but they are only or sometimes just a few times per year in a given region. The shop is year round and if the location is good, newbies will come in.
I love visiting shops that always have a fresh look, sales on certain items, close out tables, then new goodies, plenty of used merchadise for sale, friendly and knowledgeable staff, and give a hoot about the customer's needs. I have found shop owners who complain bitterly about everything and blame all of their problems on everyone but themselves. Then I have found others who will join the 21st, but still complain, and then there are the trend setters. A hobby shop is a business and must be run like one or failure is guaranteed.
My two bucks worth..
ATLANTIC CENTRAL "Collectors vs modelers - collectors are lousy customers long term, their buying habits are based on emotions and how well the stock market is doing, and weither they have gotten bored yet. Modelers, at least most of the ones I have known in 40 years, be they ultra serious or very causal, spend roughly the same hobby budget year in and year out, for decades - or LIFETIMES. So by aiming too much product at collectors, manufacturers have created a kind of saturation and colapse - like many other "collectables" markets have experianced. Mike wolf did this to O gauge, now he's aiming for HO - problem is he is not on the ground floor this time, Bachmann, Proto and BLI beat him to it and the market is nearly saturated already. So when the collector/RTR thing colapses, I will still be building "model trains". Maybe some company will want my money - we will see. Sheldon "
"Collectors vs modelers - collectors are lousy customers long term, their buying habits are based on emotions and how well the stock market is doing, and weither they have gotten bored yet. Modelers, at least most of the ones I have known in 40 years, be they ultra serious or very causal, spend roughly the same hobby budget year in and year out, for decades - or LIFETIMES. So by aiming too much product at collectors, manufacturers have created a kind of saturation and colapse - like many other "collectables" markets have experianced. Mike wolf did this to O gauge, now he's aiming for HO - problem is he is not on the ground floor this time, Bachmann, Proto and BLI beat him to it and the market is nearly saturated already.
Sheldon "
Sheldon,
That pinging sound is you hitting the spike right on the head. I could not have expressed my feelings about the industry any better with twice as many words, for I too am a model builder/modelrailroader.
An experience at a LHS may illistrate what is happening to so many of them. First of all, I have supported the LHS's since I was a kid, so, so much for my record. Any way, I stepped into the store and slowely browsed around for some parts and lost wax castings for a model project I was contemplating. Little did I know that the store had changed hands since my last adventure there. The shelves and hanging stock I new had been there was no longer in sight.
I ventured to the main counter top ask the clerk, (I didn't know was the new owner), where were the small parts I was seeking.?
His reply was, "Why would you need those?"
I explained that I was scratchbuilding a project and needed them to complete it.
He looked at me with a glazed stare and then said, "Scratch what?"
At that point, I realized I was in the company of someone with no backbround in modelbuilding, so I repeated my question with an added statement about starting from scratch in the building process.
"Why would you go to all that trouble when we have boxes full of ready made products?" he asked as his eyes sort of rolled as if here was about to be board to death.
To save him that agony, I stated that I would not be back and that his business was not long for this world. That was seven months ago and guess what, the shop is now closed and since it was only one left near me, my future buying will be on-line.
Well, it was nice while it lasted.
Joe
Howard asks the shop's name. It was Dutchess Train & Hobby. The store itself had perhaps 2,000-2,500 feet of floor space, about 80% of which was for model railroading items. HO and N scales, plus Lionel and MTH tinplate, were well represented in the stock, as were all sorts of scratchbuilding materials, replacement parts and a collection of Walthers Cornerstone series of buildings (in HO and N) second to none.
Those who say that the way folks purchase items has changed and will soon be all about the Internet are deluding themselves when I comes to this hobby. If you are a collector, or dabbler, it may be possible, even conveniet, to muddle along that way, but for those who build models and layouts, the Internet is a poor substitute for a LHS. When that #80 drill bit snaps mid project; when you need one more piece of a particular size styrene strip; or 3' more of code 55 track, to finish out a critical weekend project, see how well a shipper three states away, charging $10 shipping for $3.95 worth of items, replaces having a hobby shop 5 miles way whose owner will keep the shop doors open an extra 15 minutes past closing to allow you to get there to buy these things...
Howard also specifically asks: ... do you think that these many closings we so often read about are the hobby getting smaller or buying changes shifting to on line shopping. Or just poor business management? In my travels I have visited many successful train stores. Quite frankly I go out of my way to support these brick and motar shops as there lies the future of the hobby.
In reply, while I acknowledge that many people's buying methods have changed; folks shouldn't be misled into believing it's true of the entire hobby. I'd venture that at least 30% of hobbyists - those over 55-60 - are not really computer literate and so don't make purchases on-line. Yet, these folks, as the prime model and layout builders, are still the heart of the hobby today. Certainly, some shops close as a result of poor management, but not the one in question here. One of the major problems stems from limited runs. LHS can't maintain a stock of all the new, but very briefly available, locomotives and cars without expending a fortune...and few can do that. Then, too, you all already know what the statistics and trends indicate to me about the shrinking of the hobby.
Finally, I agree with Howard 100% that the LHS could have been a primary factor in perpetuating the hobby into the future, but once they are all gone, in my opinion the hobby's fate is sealed.
-----------------
John,I don't think so..Slot cars are a hard item to find yet 1/32nd slot car racing has seen growth.Today's consumer is computer savvy and knows how to shop on line. Today's instant knowledge via the Internet and forums as all but replaced face to face hobby communication that was once so common in the hobby..You want to learn to ballast? Go to YouTube,want to know basic modeling like track laying go to YouTube..Just about anything modeling can be found there including decoder installation.
Its a completely different era we live in and I have no doubt the hobby will survive the coming years like it has in the past...After after that slot car fad of the 60's never faded into the sunset like many thought and today's cars is highly detailed.Look closely and you can see very few hobbies has died out over the years.
It may be a bit of old news some what but to add to this closing another North Jersey hobby icon Highway Hobby House http://www.hiwayhobby.com/ is also closing it's door's. I was never a big fan of their but thats not the issue at hand. We had a train store close down near where I live about three years a go by the name of Gene's Trains located in Brick NJ for the life of me I don't know why. The owner said it was the only one of his three stores that was turning a profit, t had been in the same location for a good number of years,had a very strong following and even with all that in it's favor he closed it down so the story goes so his son could run a store he recently purchased up in Union county but the kids heart was not even in the parking lot never mind in the business. You can't close up shop by 3:30 or 4:00pm so you can beat the traffic home on the Garden State Parkway, not a smart thing to do. With the closing of yet another store which is never good news on the flip side we still have some like my LHS of choice The Model Railroad shop of Piscataway, NJ still going as strong if not stronger then ever.
I don't think we can entirely put the focus of the blame for these stores closing on the internet. My store in fact is just breaking into the internet but to my knowledge still does not have online ordering. These guys get it right. They have been in business in the same location since 1933 so that has to tell you that these fellas know a little something about the model train business. Will they look at this as an opportunity to exploit their customers who now have one less choice, not a snowballs chance in hell that will ever happen. These guys are both stand up individuals and treat all their customers fair and honestly. I don't know if the same can't be said for the other shops that have the way of the closed sign. We also need to face the reality that a lot of us don't like to look at every morning when we stare at that mug in the mirror looking back at us. We ain't getting any younger and lets face it fellas as we all know the majority of the fraternity in our hobby is f the Geritol set and those of us headed there on an express train.Unfortunately many hobby shops as well as some great kit manufactures and mom & op specialty operations are simply fading away do to attrition, not the big bad evil internet. The smart members of the business side of the hobby have embraced the internet and used it as a tool to generate sales, thats what a smart business man does.
So what the business side of the hobby needs is some new blood, new forward thinking. If I had the financial ware-withal to invest in opening up a new business there's no question in my mind that I would open a train store. I don't look at the glass as being half empty but rather as it being half full. It's a fact that we are in tough financial times no question, but it has been a fact of history that when entrepreneurs had the savvy and the hindsight to invest during hard times in the past, when the hard times were behind them they prospered and usually in a very big way. We all sit back and say well I don't have that kind of money to invest , well neither do I but if you wan to do something to help stem the tide of your LHS going by the way side the next time you need to buy something hop in your car and make the drive to the LHS or do what we like to do pick up the phone book and find one's we've never been to before and seek them out. Never know maybe they have a really good deal or that kit you know you have to buy today because it may not be here tomorrow.
Brian
Looking at Hiwayhobby.com photos, they obviously had evolved into a huge toy and quasi RTR hobby store. During my years in NJ, I use to frequent this store, and I can remember rather well going downstairs and seeing cases full of brass locomotives and really fine craftsman MR items. What happened??? I can guess that they made the same mistake I had made when I first opened my hobby shop here in Columbia in 1973....too general in scope. It took me only a month or so to realize that I had to specialize, and of course....trains was it. In Laurel MD, not only does Peach Creek Hobbies specialze in trains, but they have gone even further by specializing in steel mill modeling ( he also specializes in high end Bachmannn....not an oxymoron!). This has become rather popular in HO, and now Peach Creek is know nation-wide as the main source for steel mill stuff. This was a very smart move. John Glaab, the honcho, once specialized in brass and craftsman items as besides being an expert in these fields, he has proven to be an excellent business man. This business talent gave what was needed to recognize his market and react accurately. Again my point....it is business ability that is the deciding factor.
· I would venture into a hobby store MUCH MORE OFTEN if I could go there and have my scratch-building project cut out by a computer controlled laser. Sure, those machines are expensive, but you can market the service to doll house builders, airplane builders, as well as train guys. You might eventually have to hire someone just to run it to keep up with the demand.
· Offer while-you-wait decoder installation (while folks are waiting they are bound to buy something).
My point is that there isn't a business in the USA that is successfully operating like it did 20 years ago. The LHS is no exception. I think it is possible to be a great success as an LHS entrepreneur, but it's time to be more global and less local, and think of what you can become - not what you used to be.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
I got to get back to the basement, but since I'm doing on line work today, I keep gravitating to this thread.
Shayfan has some really good suggestions for a shop and I concur fully. He does miss one point about the importance of a LHS.........exposure to possile new entrants.
andrechapelon, I have a brother lives in Cupertino and, although I don't get into the bay area as often as I once did, I make it a habit to visit The Train Shop when visiting the area. It is a fantastic store with a model railroading supply of merchandise second to none; the proprietors--I was told one time that the place was run by a father-son team although the individual who told me that was an employee--exercise one of the best people skills in the industry.
I also remember The Engine House and you remember it as I do . . . . . . . . . . the last time I was in there was sometime in 1968 or 1969 ; N-Scale was just coming into its own and I was curious so I was browsing through his N-Scale section; I had to wipe some of the dust off the countertop and even then visibility was poor because of the none-to-efficient lighting.
My most memorable experience associated with The Engine House occurred in the summer of 1968. (My pappy was stationed at the Air Force's Satellite Test Center adjacent to Lockheed and Moffett Field and I stopped in for a short visit while on leave from where I was stationed at San Berdoo.) Anyway, as I was entering into The Engine House I encountered two gentlemen in the doorway exiting. We exchanged salutations and when I was inside and these two gentlemen had departed in their automobile the owner(?) ask if I knew who I had just passed in the doorway. No, I said, I didn't know who they were. "That's John Allen from down at Monterrey," I was informed. My one and only contact with The Wizard consisted of an exchange of good afternoons. Years later when Model Railroader published an In Memorium photo I looked at it and said "Yep. That's the guy I met in the doorway."
Not sure just when The Engine House closed its door because it was in the late '70s before I got to the bay area again and my brother informed me that it no longer was in business. But like you said . . . . . dust and dingy lighting.
In talking about defunct hobby shops I might mention that I was able to visit Bobbye Hall's in Dallas twice; on my first visit I was escorted through the store by Mrs Hall herself. For those of you who never had the experience of visiting Bobbye Halls I might say that she had stuff crammed into every nook and cranny available but the sheer volume of available merchandise made it one of my most memorable browsing experiences. I was deeply saddened when it was announced that she was closing her doors.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Hey 0-6-0, where exactly is Al's? And where is hobby lobby opening? Those are both much closer then either place I call a "local" hobby shop. I know where Macedonis and Bedfor are, just never knew about these places.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
CNJ831It would seem that a lot of folks have a lot of questions and some, thoughts regarding the closing of this particular shop. I'll try to answer as many as I can in appropriate detail, since I believe they reflect the current state of things in the hobby, as well as future trends........
CNJ,
I agree with your observations, to the degree that I have knowledge, but I have some questions for you.
Is the hobby shrinking in terms of a percentage of the general population? and if so, based on what "peak" year/time in terms of a percentage of the general population?
Who are we counting? Everyone who buys a train set? Everyone who buys a train set then goes back for some accessories? Only those who identify their model train activities as "model railroading?
Two key questions come to mind - How many customers are there? and how much do they spend? Per year? Per decade? In a life time?
Ajusted for inflation, do they each spend more now or did they spend more in 1960? ,1980?, 1990?
Are young men simply not interested in this sort of thing anymore?
We seem to be in agreement about the inventory question, without an attractive and useful inventory, a retail store serves no purpose. A model train store cannot survive selling #80 drill bits, Plastruct and Kadee couplers.
Athearn has the right marketing model for the future - ONE price to all dealers with enough markup to allow some some discounting but not so much as to undermine the "value" of the retail price. I buy ALL my Athearn needs (which is a fair amount) from my LHS. His modest discount to customers puts him in the same price range with the big mail order/internet dealers once you factor in shipping.
I don't know where the "modelers" have gone or why there are not new ones comming into the hobby, but I will plainly say I seem to have less and less in common with people I meet in the hobby today as opposed to years ago.
The eighties and ninties were a boom of product in this hobby, not just cars and locos, but all sorts of stuff, stuff now "out of stock" at Walthers and not on the shelves of any LHS - if you can find a LHS.
Did those products not make a profit? OR, is that part of the market gone? shrunk? dead?
I still say as a "modeler", I'm a better customer to a manufacturer than a collector or even a "causal" RTR table top operator. Year in and year out for some 40 years I have spend most of my personally alotted "play" money to model trains. Never have gotten bored, never "sold off" my "collection", and have purchased a wide selection of model products form a large number of manufacturers and retail outlets. AND, in my case, since I have the means and the space, I'm building a fairly large layout. So I buy 4 of this loco and 6 of that loco and 12 of that box car and 18 of this hopper - rather than just one for my display case - but none of those locos are UP Big Boys.
Yet the industry, which use to seem to be after my money, no longer seems interested in my money. Instead they are interested in selling $70 RTR passenger cars and $500 DCC/sound locomotives - and seem to have little else to offer. And they don't want ot make anything long enough fo me to find out about it and develope a need for it on my layout. No wonder the hobby is dieing - maybe the collectors have run the modelers right out of it and now the collectors are "bored" or their stock portfolio took a hit or whatever.
So, you thoughts on my questions are welcomed.
0-6-0I have never been to a hobby lobby before. So I not sure how good it will be.
It's not a hobby store in the true sense of the word, so Al's has nothing to worry about. They carry most of the bachmann or life like crap, and very little at that. Nothing any true model railroader would be caught dead with on his layout. They do however have some nice Lionel sets, and woodland scenic stuff. If you use one of their online 40% off coupons you can get a pretty good deal.
I go there for paint brushes, xacto knives, foam board, and glue.
You guys are way off base and have got it ALL WRONG!
You wanna know why this hobby is dying?
Just look at the Crap Life Like and Bachmann sell at your local discount store.
Those two idiot companies are responsible for the downfall of this hobby bar none.
Well those look better than the TYCO I grew up with. To someone that is established in the hobby it's lower grade but to a kid opening it up on Christmas it's exciting. Also I noticed that lately the Hobbytown chain has been adding some quality stuff. The one near me tripled their model RR stock
Oh and don't forget that Bachmann is one of the only manufacturers that continually offer Amtrak equipment including the Acela: Also a big favorite with very young future Model railroaders, Thomas.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=3437
Howard ZaneBrian Looking at Hiwayhobby.com photos, they obviously had evolved into a huge toy and quasi RTR hobby store. During my years in NJ, I use to frequent this store, and I can remember rather well going downstairs and seeing cases full of brass locomotives and really fine craftsman MR items. What happened??? I can guess that they made the same mistake I had made when I first opened my hobby shop here in Columbia in 1973....too general in scope. It took me only a month or so to realize that I had to specialize, and of course....trains was it. In Laurel MD, not only does Peach Creek Hobbies specialze in trains, but they have gone even further by specializing in steel mill modeling ( he also specializes in high end Bachmannn....not an oxymoron!). This has become rather popular in HO, and now Peach Creek is know nation-wide as the main source for steel mill stuff. This was a very smart move. John Glaab, the honcho, once specialized in brass and craftsman items as besides being an expert in these fields, he has proven to be an excellent business man. This business talent gave what was needed to recognize his market and react accurately. Again my point....it is business ability that is the deciding factor. HZ
Howard,
Thats the place where I got shot with the golden arrow. After visiting and open house in Rutherford NJ and another weekend jaunt to Roadside America me, my brother and dad were hopelessly hooked. So we devised a plan like we really knew what we were doing.......lol and jumped in the 1961 Mercury and headed up Rt.17 to Ramsey to nirvana aka Highway Hobby House and man you weren't exaggerating one bit when you walked in and went down the stairs off tot he left was an entire wall of brass trains. Row after row of beautiful brass almost as impressive as your living room......lol and you name it they had it. So being as I wasn't able to ride my Schwinn up there on a daily or weekly basis i had the opportunity to just keep saving my paper route money and eventually make a trip up there and buy what ever.
I can't recall when but then they built a new building, probably the same one that they are now vacating and it sure seemed impressive until you walked in and there were R/C plane, bots, cars games puzzles craft stuff yuk! that meant girls to (at 10 year old kid they were evil and the satin's spawn on the backside of 50 I am some what still feeling the same way, hum?) But where were the trains, what was once a giant train heaven was now all stuffed into one corner or a some what smaller section then they had before. The customer service had seemed to go right out the window along with everything else, but I just attributed it to the arrogant North Jersey Bergen county I'm better then you even if I walk around like I have poop on the end of my nose attitude.
So you right for one to succeed not only in the train hobby, but any where else you need to maintain focus.I still believe a person who is a good business man and knows what he's doing can still make a go of a train store.
Driline You guys are way off base and have got it ALL WRONG! You wanna know why this hobby is dying? Just look at the Crap Life Like and Bachmann sell at your local discount store. Those two idiot companies are responsible for the downfall of this hobby bar none.
Toy stores and department stores have always sold crapy HO and N scale sets as far back as the 50's - that has nothing to do with what is happening now.
Tyco, LifeLike, Bachmann, 1958, 1978 or 2010 that has always been.
ATLANTIC CENTRALToy stores and department stores have always sold crapy HO and N scale sets as far back as the 50's - that has nothing to do with what is happening now. Tyco, LifeLike, Bachmann, 1958, 1978 or 2010 that has always been. Sheldon
It was just a thought