Driline ATLANTIC CENTRAL Toy stores and department stores have always sold crapy HO and N scale sets as far back as the 50's - that has nothing to do with what is happening now. Tyco, LifeLike, Bachmann, 1958, 1978 or 2010 that has always been. Sheldon It was just a thought
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Toy stores and department stores have always sold crapy HO and N scale sets as far back as the 50's - that has nothing to do with what is happening now. Tyco, LifeLike, Bachmann, 1958, 1978 or 2010 that has always been. Sheldon
Toy stores and department stores have always sold crapy HO and N scale sets as far back as the 50's - that has nothing to do with what is happening now.
Tyco, LifeLike, Bachmann, 1958, 1978 or 2010 that has always been.
Sheldon
It was just a thought
In fact, while I have not seen any recent LifeLike stuff up close, the new Bachmann stuff is pretty respectable from an operational standpoint - and some of the regular line is pretty good looking too - as far as detail for that price range.
Athearn is also back in the train set market. In fact, a beginner today stands a buch better chance of having a good HO train set experiance than ever before in my 40 years in this hobby - and I started working in hobby shops in 1969.
But what do I know, I'm just hick with a pickup, a gun and some DC powered trains.
And here I thought that the traditional toy train set was the gateway drug of choice. Quality was largely irrelevant. At least now they have knuckle couplers on them. Are they still truck mounted?
I started with Tyco back in 1971. I have fond memories of my first layout with a Tyco Ten Wheeler and a 0-6-0 switcher. I built the Atlas train station, signal tower, and lumberyard. I used Atlas track, snap switches, and their block controllers. I have since moved on to better stuff, but in some ways I have never equaled those wonderous first days in the hobby.
Even though the hobby shops near me closed or dropped S years ago, I still enjoy browsing a well stocked train shop. And I usually find something I can use or a magazine to read. Sadly they are diminishing one by one. I have no idea how that will affect the hobby. But retailing in general is changing, the independent shops are fading away, victims of our desire for the lowest price. Chains, internet, and shows seem to be the wave of the future. Time will tell if that's sufficient.
One of the reasons I enjoy browsing the antique shores is that I see things that aren't carried by the chain stores. Trains are showing up there too.
One way or another, I expect to model railroad the rest of my life. And I have enough stuff stashed away to do it. Maybe the next generation of model railroaders will shop the antique stores for my stuff after I'm gone.
Enjoy
Paul
Driline Just look at the Crap Life Like and Bachmann sell at your local discount store. Those two idiot companies are responsible for the downfall of this hobby bar none.
Those two idiot companies are responsible for the downfall of this hobby bar none.
In speaking of the bachmann trainset junk, I've actually been trying to find a few of the cabooses with the slanted coupla for a while at swap meets I've been going to. With some work, I'll end up with an accurate ex-CB&Q NE-12 for my BN, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg like the brass one does.
I like Shayfan's idea of the milling machine and the white decal printing. I would like to have some low nosed GP7s or GP9s, but I can't find any of the inserts for a split windshield or any Atlas SD26 cabs. And I would need decals to paint said units (miroscale decals would only do a few)
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
I get up to Dutchess train and Hobby about once a month. I didn't know Bob was closing until I read it here and was confirmed by another member of my club. I don't need much for my layout so I haven't been spending much there except for magazines or styrene. He had a small order on backorder for me and now I guess i'll never get it. Several members of my club live in the Poughkeepsie area and visit there for things they need regularly. That shop was over thirty miles from where I live. There are two other shops where I visit and they are both also over thirty miles away.
But I also know many modelers that will not be sorry it is gone due to the attitude of the owner. I understand he may be continuing on with mail order.
andrechapelon, I have a brother lives in Cupertino and, although I don't get into the bay area as often as I once did, I make it a habit to visit The Train Shop when visiting the area. It is a fantastic store with a model railroading supply of merchandise second to none; the proprietors--I was told one time that the place was run by a father-son team although the individual who told me that was an employee--exercise one of the best people skills in the industry.
When I first started going to The Train Shop about 1980-81, it was operated by Vern Cole and Charlie Givens, who is well known in SP circles as an expert in SP steam power. I don't remember if Vern's son, Dennis, was there at the time although I do remember him being there in the early 90's. Charlie Givens retired some years ago and moved away, leaving Vern and Dennis to run the shop. I think it was 2 or 3 years ago when Vern retired and Dennis assumed the reins.
My biggest regret in moving out of Silicon Valley to Monterey about 8 years ago is that it put me nearly 1.5 hours away from my two favorite places, The Train Shop and The Country Inn (at the corner of El Camino and Scott in what used to be called :Mervyn's Plaza). The Train Shop cannot be beat for model railroad supplies and The Country Inn's pancakes are still the best I've ever had (and I've searched for better). My Saturday routine used to consist of a short stack at The Country Inn followed by arrival at The Train Shop just about the time it opened. I can't speak for others, but if there ever was a personal Golden Age, that was it. Fortunately, my elder stepson and his wife bought the house we lived in and when we visit I can recreate those glorious days of yesteryear even if only occasionally.
Pancakes and trains. Life doesn't get any better than that.
Andre
Let's face it, we all are some what responsible for lhs closings. There are better prices found on net stores and else where. When one has a limited budget, one will sometimes shop around. We do it with our cars, tires, clothes, groceries,etc, why not trains? A lhs can not possibly be able to cater to everyone, heck, everyone on this forum alone has their own idea of how there model railroad should be. I enjoy going to my two lhs's, but both shops keep a limited inventory. With today's economic woes guys aren't spending money on trains.
The notion of a lhs of doling out thousands of dollars for a laser cutter or decal printer isn't going to happen. Hell, he can't keep a decent inventory of locos and cars any more. Bigbox stores have a national inventory to chose from and can bargain for the best price and liquidate to gains prices somewhere else, the little guy doesn't have that.
I doubt that seeing a train set in the window is going to lure new kids into the hobby. Today's kids have video games,cell phones ipods, soccer leagues,karate, warhammer,manga, etc, trains take a lot of cash and time. Those of us from the fifties and sixties grew up with trains or had several friends or their dads had them.
Will the hobby die,no, but it will fade away...............mike h.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL CNJ831It would seem that a lot of folks have a lot of questions and some, thoughts regarding the closing of this particular shop. I'll try to answer as many as I can in appropriate detail, since I believe they reflect the current state of things in the hobby, as well as future trends........ CNJ, I agree with your observations, to the degree that I have knowledge, but I have some questions for you. Is the hobby shrinking in terms of a percentage of the general population? and if so, based on what "peak" year/time in terms of a percentage of the general population? Who are we counting? Everyone who buys a train set? Everyone who buys a train set then goes back for some accessories? Only those who identify their model train activities as "model railroading? Two key questions come to mind - How many customers are there? and how much do they spend? Per year? Per decade? In a life time? Ajusted for inflation, do they each spend more now or did they spend more in 1960? ,1980?, 1990? Are young men simply not interested in this sort of thing anymore?
CNJ831It would seem that a lot of folks have a lot of questions and some, thoughts regarding the closing of this particular shop. I'll try to answer as many as I can in appropriate detail, since I believe they reflect the current state of things in the hobby, as well as future trends........
CNJ,
I agree with your observations, to the degree that I have knowledge, but I have some questions for you.
Is the hobby shrinking in terms of a percentage of the general population? and if so, based on what "peak" year/time in terms of a percentage of the general population?
Who are we counting? Everyone who buys a train set? Everyone who buys a train set then goes back for some accessories? Only those who identify their model train activities as "model railroading?
Two key questions come to mind - How many customers are there? and how much do they spend? Per year? Per decade? In a life time?
Ajusted for inflation, do they each spend more now or did they spend more in 1960? ,1980?, 1990?
Are young men simply not interested in this sort of thing anymore?
Sheldon, the questions you pose, if accurately and fully addressed, would require my posting 6-10 pages of background info and the logical conclusions that can be drawn from them. The Pollyannas here take decided offense to such posts, so let me advise you to consult some of the previous (a year and more ago) threads that addressed this subject for details and actual published data. I will point out, however, that just how one defines the term "model railroader" strongly influences any such numbers.
There are those here that feel anyone who has ever purchased a miniature train is automatically to be classified as a model railroader. This then comes to include folks who purchase trains for a Christmas Village, those that collect John Deer and NASCAR trains, Brio Thomas sets, as well as an absolute host of others extreme fringe items. To include these folks as model railroaders is really utter nonsense. The people at MR over half a century ago coined the phrase "adult model railroading" to describe the hobby, indicating that it was much more than simply playing with a set of little trains, as kids did.
Now model railroading has, from its very inception in the late 1920's, been considered a craftsman's construction hobby. Simply reading about it, or just collecting/owning trains, honestly relegates one to being an armchair person, or at best a model train enthusiast, as such participation begins and ends with that highly limited, non-modeling, approach to the hobby.
The basic premise surrounding our hobby is that its goal is to build a reasonable representation of the real world in miniature that has operating trains as its centerpiece (see the countless MR and RMC editorials over the years about this). To do so requires one to acquire a multitude of necessary techniques, talents and skills, as very few individuals find these really inherent. To go about that process, until very recently it was a prerequisite that one buy guides and magazines that offered instruction and information on how-to and the most recent developments in the hobby. To a degree, the Internet has come to replace this, at least in some folks' minds, but they disregard the fact that just because something appears on the Internet does not make the information correct, as does peer review in the magazines and guides.
So...the above indicates that to be an actual model railroader one should have a layout of some sort where the hobbyist's efforts has made it modestly realistic in appearance, i.e. be at least somewhere along in the operating and scenicking phases. Likewise, the hobbyist should be fairly up-to-date on the modeling techniques and materials necessary to create same. Operating out-of-the-box trains on a 4x8 piece of essentially bare plywood hardly qualifies as model railroading in this day and age. Neither does the sometimes proposed concept that there is a huge uncounted number of self taught, lone wolf, hobbyists out there who never interact with the hobby world via books. magazines, or the Internet. You may split from the pack after acquiring lots of experience, but doing so dooms one to rapidly fall behind the hobby's forefront. Regardless, at some point and probably for an extended period, these folks would have in some manner been evident along with the rest of us. Incidentally, this same canard has also been employed to suggest that there is a phantom army of teenage and twenty-something hobbyists out there that will save the hobby in the future.
Applying the above reasonable criteria, together with any and all available published hobby statistics, one soon discovers that no matter what figures are employed for supposed hobbyist numbers, one is pretty much forced toward the conclusion that there is unlikely to be much more than just 100,000 practicing model railroaders currently within the United States. Of that total, perhaps 10,000-20,000 might be classified as "serious", or "advanced" hobbyists, implying that their modeling efforts equal, or don't fall all that far short of, the sorts of skill on sees on the pikes appearing in the magazines. Overall, our numbers are really quite small and shrinking. Incidentally, if one attempts to relate these figures to the population by percentage, today it is less that 50% of what it was several decades ago. And the average hobbyist is also just about twice as old today!
CNJ831
ruderunner Hey 0-6-0, where exactly is Al's? And where is hobby lobby opening? Those are both much closer then either place I call a "local" hobby shop. I know where Macedonis and Bedfor are, just never knew about these places.
Hey 0-6-0, where exactly is Al's? And where is hobby lobby opening? Those are both much closer then either place I call a "local" hobby shop. I know where Macedonis and Bedfor are, just never knew about these places.
Hello Al's is located at 708 Broadway ave Bedford ph# 440-232-0591 the hobby lobby is in the shopping center by wal-mart it is in the old giant eagle It's not open yet looks like a couple weeks yet. Not sure where you live but here are more.
Falls hobby 1928 Portage trail Cuyahoga falls 44223 ph# 330-929-1112
There are a few more shops in brook park one is at ridge and snow not to sure? cant remember the name and 1 in Lorain called Wings. Hope this helps Frank
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
sandusky This last guy takes the cake and I have vowed NEVER to support his store in any way; but most of them seemed more annoyed with having to field my questions than anything, except of course for the guys who's formerly ran Hobbies for Men up north, shut down or left town (from the model press, MR, I believe, in the late 60's),and reopened in Atlanta (National Hobby Supply), who were there one day and gone the next. They at least were engaging and not hostile.
This last guy takes the cake and I have vowed NEVER to support his store in any way; but most of them seemed more annoyed with having to field my questions than anything, except of course for the guys who's formerly ran Hobbies for Men up north, shut down or left town (from the model press, MR, I believe, in the late 60's),and reopened in Atlanta (National Hobby Supply), who were there one day and gone the next. They at least were engaging and not hostile.
Mike, you've got the the story of Hobbies for Men all mixed up. First of all, the huge store in New York was in business through the late 70's and run very successfully by the father of an eventual father and son team. At the end, the father handed over the business to the kid because of illness, as I recall, who essentially ruined it within just months and had to leave town. The son later reappeared in GA and also elsewhere thereafter, more or less running a mail-order hobby business scam and ending up in court several times (I was involved in one of the court actions).
--------------------
How about the casuals? You can't rule them out..I don't see the hobby shrinking as much as I do splitting into smaller specialized groups we know RR-L is a craftsmen forum by the membership..We see the Atlas forum caters to "serious" modelers..Add the hundreds of SIG found on the Internet.
I haven't seen any hard evidence that suggest the hobby is dying or growing and I have notice a lot of folk in their 30s/40s at the larger train shows..
John,At one time I thought like you and the hobby was shrinking because of reading about LHS closing which no one has even bother to say why other then the hobby is doom due to the on line shops.
As you have asked in times pass where is your hard figures and from what source? Surely not the decline of MR's readership..I think the hobby in general has outgrown the basics MR puts forth and the repeat of articles and articles that is more of a infomercial then solid modeling has driven off readers as well as scale specific magazines along with the instant modeling information found on the 'net.
We live in a completely new era of the hobby that is so different then before...The hobby could see growth and many may not see it because of the lone wolf modelers and clubs that are hard to get information on because they never have a public show or visitor's night..
My brother in law is alone wolf..He doesn't buy MR or any magazines other then Classic Trains and Railfan.He has shopped at the hobby shops in Columbus but,98% of his purchases is done on line.He learn to ballast track watching a on line video.He already knew how to use ground form from his days of building WWII dioramas...I would say he's a advance modeler from his modeling and close attention to details.
The question is how many unknown thousands are there that goes it alone getting the needed modeling information on line like my brother in law?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hello well I just checked the resources tab and clicked on find a hobby shop and went to advanced search put in my zip code and came up with 35 shops with in 50 mile from me. Wow I never thought there were that many around. Now if they are any good I do not know? My have to check some of these out. So now Im wondering if the big group of modelers is now here? Could the interest be moving and the shops follow? Have a nice day Frank
R. T. POTEETReally???? Boy,you sure fooled the aitch out of me!
Hey there Wild Man What's an aitch? Is that like a scratch you can't get at?
I read time and time again that we should support our LHS. Isn't that backwards - shouldn't they support us? If a store is my best choice for buying what I need/want they get my business - all an LHS has to do is be the best choice (there are lots of ways to do that). My opinion is that the LHSs that shut down for lack of customers have somehow lost sight of what their customers want/need, when any business "disconnects" from its customers the business's days are numbered.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Sad to hear of another Hobby shop closing up. After reading all the reply & comments posted I just had to chime in with my three cents worth. I believe that there will always be hobby shops around as long as there are those who like to build things on their own. But I also think that there will fewer as time goes on.
As has been mentioned at, the internet has taken away a lot from the LHS. True hobby shops are getting harder to find and a good one is very hard to find. I know, I dont have a LHS so I have to rely on the internet for a lot of my modeling supplies and things. The nearest LHS to me is a five hour drive in any direction.
There is a Hobby Lobby in the next city from me, we all know what kind of supplies they have for model railroading, although this one does have Woodland scenics stuff and they do carry Design Preservation Models building kits along with a good selection of paints and airbrushes (under lock and key). I am from the bay area in Ca originaly, if anyone lives close to concord Ca, there is a good LHS called Just Trains. If you happen to be traveling thru that area it is worth a stop they have a large inventory and the owner is almost always there. Neil
It's absolutely mind boggling that there is a mindset that insists that because things started out a certain way that they must, of necessity, stay that way or the whole endeavour becomes shoddy, if not downright worthless.
Airplanes were initially built with wood and fabric and were powered by rather anemic reciprocating engines. I suppose planes built with carbon fiber composites and powered by turbofan jet engines is a sure sign of the decadence of airplane manufacturing in this country and speaks volumes about the modern insistence on instant gratification. After all, if a 110 mph top speed was good enough for a Sopwith Camel, it ought to be good enough for an F-22 Raptor.
Yep, things have really gone downhill since Dec. 17, 1903. Back then, Wilbur and Orville didn't need to take flying lessons. They just strapped themselves in and took off. The wusses of modern aviation require hours of flight instruction and even more hours of ground school. What's even worse, unlike Wilbur and Orville, they demand RTF (ready-to-fly) airplanes. Wilbur and Orville built their own. From scratch, no less.
Model railroading was a craftsman hobby in the late 20's because it had to be a craftsman hobby where you pretty much did everything yourself. Just 35 years ago, if you wanted a home computer, you had to build it yourself from components. I don't suppose that you built the computer you're using, did you? For my part, I'll admit that I'm using an HP laptop. The desktop my wife and I use was custom built for by my stepson, who loves building the things. It's sorta the computer equivalent of having a custom locomotive builder knock out a locomotive for you.
You're a great lover of spouting off numbers (especially MR page counts) as if raw numbers are the holy grail Here's a graph of historical trends in railroad employment. Using your logic, it looks to me that the numbers indicate that railroading is on its last legs and should probably disappear altogether within my lifetime. http://www.railserve.com/employment.html Railroad mileage peaked at 254,000 in 1916. By 2000, mileage was down to about 145,000 (roughly equivalent to US mileage in 1880). Things are going down hill fast.
And don't get me started on photograpy. That started off as a "craftsman" hobby, too. You had to build your own camera and use glass plates to capture the images. Then film was invented, then George Eastman invented the Brownie. I can't even say the name of Edwin Land without running the risk of a stroke. For cryin' out loud, he made it so the film developed itself. And digital cameras? You want to talk about people demanding instant gratification? They're all a bunch of photographer wannabes who must be shunned at all costs to preserve the purity of real photography from the rabble whose only contribution is filthy money.
I don't suppose mentioning the fact that RTR trains have been available since at least the late 1930's will improve your disposition, will it? I wonder how many O scalers of the 30's bought a Lionel Scale Hudson rather than build a kit. Certainly Frank Ellison did.. Mantua was offering RTR HO in late 1937 with a 2-8-0, 2 gondolas and a caboose along with 21 feet of track (in a kit). I suppose the track kit saved the purchaser from the onus of being considered a poseur, a wannabe, a dilettante. OTOH, at $59.50, I the purchaser was probably the moral equivalent of today's brass collector since it was the equivalent of 900 of today's dollars. http://www.railstop.com/History/Mantua/MantuaHistory.asp
I suppose living in the mental equivalent of a gated community where the riff-raff are kept at bay offers its compensations and you can rest easy in the knowledge that the rest of us great unwashed (those of us that the late Lucius Beebe would refer to as "low and easy folk") have no desire to join your country club. The truth is, in the end, it's not at all about craftsmanship, it's about feeling superior.
OK, mods, you can go ahead and pull this post.
You are just spouting nonsense, Andre. Most of what you posted has not actually the slightest to do with the subject at hand. Can you not ever contribute something...anything...in the way of relevant facts, figures, or in some way pertinent to the subject at hand? Posts like your latest diatribe certainly add nothing to the current discussion. Why not spend some of your on-line time in a far more productive fashion by actually looking into the matter for possible information that contests what I've found?
CNJ831sandusky This last guy takes the cake and I have vowed NEVER to support his store in any way; but most of them seemed more annoyed with having to field my questions than anything, except of course for the guys who's formerly ran Hobbies for Men up north, shut down or left town (from the model press, MR, I believe, in the late 60's),and reopened in Atlanta (National Hobby Supply), who were there one day and gone the next. They at least were engaging and not hostile. Mike, you've got the the story of Hobbies for Men all mixed up. First of all, the huge store in New York was in business through the late 70's and run very successfully by the father of an eventual father and son team. At the end, the father handed over the business to the kid because of illness, as I recall, who essentially ruined it within just months and had to leave town. The son later reappeared in GA and also elsewhere thereafter, more or less running a mail-order hobby business scam and ending up in court several times (I was involved in one of the court actions). CNJ831
Like everyone else I don't like to see another LHS closing. However, and don't hate me for this, I am a strong proponent of e-commerce on the Internet due to my location. Living deep in farm land it is a minimum 3 hour round trip to a decent hobby shop in the city. If there was a LHS in my little farm town I certainly would support them. But with the cost of gas and time I simply don't have the luxury of popping into a hobby shop on a moments notice. For me the Internet is vastly more practical. Add to this all my experiences with online vendors to date have been as good or better than the LHS that is a road trip away. Shucks, my Internet purchases probably are supporting a brick-n-mortar store in someone's neighborhood. It's just not mine!
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
Perhaps this isn't a trend that's only confined to model railroading. Does anyone have any insight as to how the model airplane and slot/remote controlled cars are doing? Are stores that speciallize in those hobbies closing as well? I would think that the internet and other leisure activities are affecting those hobbies.
Thanks, Brakie and Andre for some common sense based on reality.
In my opinion, I don't know how CNJ831 gets his way of thinking but its 2010 not 1953. If there are so few persons buying as he implies how is it that Walthers, Atlas, Kato, Blair Line, and others keep spending money putting out new products. It's because there are far more people buying model train stuff then CNJ831 thinks. A retailer or manufacture does not care if the buyers is a craftsman modeler that is 70 or a 10 year old that may buy less then $100.00 then nothing ever again, all they see are sales.Many do come back to the hobby though as I'm sure many who read the forums have stated.
It gets me when I see post about so many manufactures making the same engine, cars, etc. and the poster saying who needs all of them. Well some one must be buying this stuff or it would not be made. I have come to the conclusion that the amount of all people of all ages, and skill levels is far higher then many believe. Probability over a million or even closer to 2 million. Again the people selling the stuff do not care about the reason some one buys the stuff as long as they buy it. Of course many people that start will not stay with it. The same as most other hobbies.
Yes, the local small hobby shops are closing and I really do believe that most being a single owner business will close once the owner retires or dies the same as most small specialty shops do. That's they way it has been and the way it will be.Those that don't realize the way selling and buying are moving will never get it. I just don't see the point of wanting every model railroader to do it the way those that started 40 or more years ago did it and still want to do it. I'm over 60 and never want to build rolling stock, engines or even buildings from scratch. From what I see being made sold, the manufactures have come to the conclusion that persons getting into the hobby now days do not want to do it either. Of course to some it means the death of the hobby.
Andre, I think your reply to CNJ831 was great. It has every thing to do with the posts he has made. CNJ831 your living in the MRR past really hit a nerve.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
MerrilyWeRollAlongPerhaps this isn't a trend that's only confined to model railroading. Does anyone have any insight as to how the model airplane and slot/remote controlled cars are doing? Are stores that speciallize in those hobbies closing as well? I would think that the internet and other leisure activities are affecting those hobbies.
Hobby stores of all kinds seem to be declining, at least in northern Virginia. I haven't been keeping close track, but over the last ten years a number have closed that were more than just trains. I can't think of one that opened.
I'm live in the twin city area of Minnesota and have a few hobby shops i visit from time to time. I use to go to one on a regular bases just hear all the guys talk about railroading or model railroading, i thought it was a lot fun.The fun for some reason started to go down hill through the years, i suppose because many maybe were dying off or moved away and i also think the younger generation are to into cell phones and electronic toys and the darn television type games.
I don't go down to the one i always like going to because theirs nobody to talk to even the people that work there seem like they do want to be bothered. Ask a question and they don't know and now that i'm older i can't handle all them steps that leads to the shop and the parking is really bad. So i'm on the internet or on the phone talking to people i have never met in my life. The new world, (sucks)
The postings on this topic are fascinating! The original posting is a pessimistic prediction that our hobby is in decline, that it may soon fade away. Most of the other posters seem to agree. A few take issue with the premise. But, 55 long, detailed posts later, no one has tried to suggest a solution! 55 active model railroaders found the time to write about how the End is near, but nobody could offer one idea for what they, I, or anyone else could do about it.
I had a boss once who had a term for this kind of thinking. He called it “admiring the problem.”
Personally, I’m not in the doom-sayers’ camp. But it really doesn’t matter who is right on this. The future will tell us that soon enough. Meanwhile, if you think the hobby is in decline, for Heaven’s sake, tell us what you think can be done to revitalize it. Because we already have 55 obituaries. One more won't help at all.
Of the three hobbie shops that were in my area, all are over 30 miles from my home. my vehicle gets 20 MPG so a round trip costs about $9. Then there is a 7 3/4% sales tax to deal with, $7.75 per $100 spent. The hobby shop of this topic had prices right out of the walthers catalog. When you can get something for 25% to 30% or more off on line, no sales tax, no fuel consumed + 2 1/2 hrs of my time not wasted traveling, for a small shipping charge, why do it.. I'll still travel to the two remaining stores if I need something.
There were two shops that dealt with trains here within 10 miles of me. they also had R/C planes, rockets, R/C cars and boats and other hobbies. They have both closed within the last 1- 1 1/2 years.
Lake Thanks, Brakie and Andre for some common sense based on reality. In my opinion, I don't know how CNJ831 gets his way of thinking but its 2010 not 1953. If there are so few persons buying as he implies how is it that Walthers, Atlas, Kato, Blair Line, and others keep spending money putting out new products. It's because there are far more people buying model train stuff then CNJ831 thinks. A retailer or manufacture does not care if the buyers is a craftsman modeler that is 70 or a 10 year old that may buy less then $100.00 then nothing ever again, all they see are sales.Many do come back to the hobby though as I'm sure many who read the forums have stated. It gets me when I see post about so many manufactures making the same engine, cars, etc. and the poster saying who needs all of them. Well some one must be buying this stuff or it would not be made. I have come to the conclusion that the amount of all people of all ages, and skill levels is far higher then many believe. Probability over a million or even closer to 2 million. Again the people selling the stuff do not care about the reason some one buys the stuff as long as they buy it. Of course many people that start will not stay with it. The same as most other hobbies. Andre, I think your reply to CNJ831 was great. It has every thing to do with the posts he has made. CNJ831 your living in the MRR past really hit a nerve.
Ken, the problem with discussions of this nature revolves around people like yourself and Andre actually not even knowing fact one about the hobby's basis and its history, leaving you without a clue as to the actual situation. It also leads to a host of nonsensical statements like your estimate that there are probably 1 or 2 million model railroaders, when all available evidence points to figures of only 1/10 that number.
Neither do folks like you apparently grasp that limited runs are a direct response to a shrinking market. Were there a million hobbyists it would be counterproductive to do single limited runs of an item. When the market was far larger than today we saw all the manufacturers keep their line of locos and cars in production sometimes over whole decades, because demand was there. That's how you approach a broad market, not with limited runs of a couple of thousand units run once and unlikely to ever be run again. Very limited, one time, runs is about surviving in a shrinking market, not a thriving one.
You complain that I'm living in the past with the idea that the hobby should still be craftsman oriented and that it should change with the times. Again, ignorance of the subject matter clouds your thinking. The hobby of simply playing with miniature trains existed long before "scale model railroading" ever came into existence - it was done with RTR Lionel and their ilk. Scale model railroading intentionally set itself distinctly apart from that juvenile pursuit by its participants creating much of their equipment and far more realistic layouts. This remained the unchanging situation from the 30's up until just about 15 years ago, when we saw the rise of an increasing range of RTR items.
Like it or not, those who gleefully support this recent RTR trend are increasingly pushing the hobby back to becoming simply an HO version of playing with Lionels...a juvenile, not an adult, pursuit. The RTR trend really indicates a lack of talent, skills and ability, or any real interest beyond simply playing with trains, among its newer practitioners (and even some of its older ones, too!). The hobby of "adult scale model railroading", as MR referred to it, is a very different hobby from that. You need to face the fact that the very nature of what we term model railroading is its involvement with craftsmanship...far more than just running miniature trains in little circles.
I suppose, this being largely an entry-level crowd, that I expect far too much of participants at being capable of objectively addressing such subjects as this. But perhaps just for a moment consider that if what I say wasn't the truth, don't you think our hosts, who have maintained very detailed surveys of the hobby over the years, would step in and present such countering information at least once in all these associated threads? Wake up, Ken and you other folks!
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Like it or not, those who gleefully support this recent RTR trend are increasingly pushing the hobby back to becoming simply an HO version of playing with Lionels...a juvenile, not an adult, pursuit. The RTR trend really indicates a lack of talent, skills and ability, or any real interest beyond simply playing with trains, among its newer practitioners (and even some of its older ones, too!). The hobby of "adult scale model railroading", as MR referred to it, is a very different hobby from that. You need to face the fact that the very nature of what we term model railroading is its involvement with craftsmanship...far more than just running miniature trains in little circles
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John,Now you're sounding like the scratch builders when plastic kits and brass steam locomotives became the norm.Sheesh!
I think today's models and layouts is superior to anything done in the past by the so called "craftsmen" and if a craftsmen is a modeler that builds the high dollar "craftsmen kits" that looks like something from the "Popeye" movie then I will gladly stick with my plastic buildings,RTR cars and locomotives.
However,true craftsmen been gone for years-they died with my dad's generation of modelers..Anybody that can take tin or brass stock, some Kemtron parts and make a locomotive is a true craftsmen other then that he's a glorified "craftsmen" kit builder.
No,John the hobby is not dying as you repeatedly imply but,never give any hard facts or figures..
As I mention its no longer the hobby I grew up with.The hobby has changed with each new generation of hobbyist.