For me its a matter of finding a Railroad I like(d) to watch in real life and during a time period and if the loco's are available in plastic to make it a little more affordable. For example, years ago I wanted to model the D&RGW in N-scale but there were not tunnle motors. I switched to HO and do the D&RGW now. The roster is more easy to represent in all EMD era too.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Something else to think about is how to convey the appearance of a hand-me-down fleet...
As I've said, the Penn Lake operates with ALCO RS3s and S2/4s from it parent D&H and Reading. PL does show a well maintained fleet, it does contrast sharply with the ALCO late model RSs and Centuries and second generation EMD units the D&H and Reading use.
Another way to go about it is use patched paint schemes.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
When you are running your own RR to me layout size is the main factor
I am going from 4 x 9.5 with 18/22 radius tabletop to 6.5 x 9.5 with 22/24 radius around the walls
No engine bigger than a Berk ( and even that seems too large for the consists 12 cars max ) and no rolling stock bigger than 40 ft --IMHO larger size engines or rolling stock look out of place
Running 5 to 8 cars with 4-4-0-----4-6-0------2-6-0 ---2-8-0-----2-8-2 ---GP20---FA2 can mirror real life operation
4-8-2 may be pushing it for that small a consist but does look good
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O
When I started developing the Portage and Northwoods I was working for Del Monte in the Central Sands portions of Wisconsin. The companies sweet corn fields were scattered up and down I-39 but mostly to the west of it.
One day I was stopped by a farmer who thought I was a little young to be out field scouting and was basiclly giving me the buisness, when he mentioned the old Wisconsin Central line that ran between Portage and Plover WI. Later my job had me almost all the way to Plover and was able to scout out the route. A fairly level route though agricultural terrritory with some stone mining, sugar beets, and misc stuff. I put all of this on the back burner as collage and grad school dictated attentions in other places.
Grad School in Pennsylvania introduced me to the wonders of electrification. GG1's, Jackstaff electrics, Little Joes and Swiss National Railroad Crocodiles (ugly, jackstaff, and utterly reliable...the trifecta of electrics.) I started collecting a small amount of Pennsy equipment, mostly passenger, because I figured that if I never actually built a layout representing the east coast, I could at the very least build a complete passenger train, and if it was out of place so be it, at least the train would be complete. So I have nearly completed the Pre-war Congressional. (because you can build it mostly from Bachmann hvyweights.)
Upon returning to Wisconsin and getting back into model railroading seriously, the old Portage to Plover line resurfaced, this time with hvy electrics as the motive power. Unfortunately there was no way, that the short line would have ever seen a hvy electric. So I started researching smaller electrics. Boxcabs, and Steeple Cabs. Well Boxcabs are the realm of brass, but Cannonball car shops makes a steeplecab kit, so I started building the kit (2004) and as of Feb (2010) it ran without a hitch for the first time.
The steeple cabs where already in my mind to stay. Portage had a small trolley system that ran downtown and the town looks like it designed to have 40' spotted behind buildings. So that part was solved. But that didn't solve the big electrics. The power plant on the outside of town did, but it was too modern. I needed something that was turn of the century-ish (I didn't know why at the time...gut feeling), but a power plant wouldn't really work. A.) Portage wasn't big enough B.) No reference to one ever being there. A coke retort would have to do. I started with the premise that coal was barged down the Fox to Portage, but since the Fox is really on suitable for industrial navigation to Lake Winnabago, the plant owners started shipping coal by rail.
While all of this is going on, my mom's side of the family finally took it upon themselves to sort through the misc. things that my grandfather had collected. One of the items that I noticed and mentioned was a photo album. In that album was a photo of my mom, my grandfather, my uncle and a box car. The boxcar was an automotive box car with the lower two rows of slats removed. When I asked about it, mom reminded me that my grandfather had ridden the rails on the cattle show circut (1927-1956). I suddenly realized that this was the time period I would be modeling and that I NEEDED to model my grandfathers car (I have all of the parts now, I just need the time...)
With time frame, location, and motive power I started looking at a history and the history of the equipment I would be using. While there are some glaring holes that need to be covered up for the most part my roster for the Portage Northern is:
4 GE 40ton Steeplecabs 2 modeled after the Sacramento Northern (these are added in 1940) and two modeled after the Northshore electrics (these are the originals and are used in Portage to shift loads in town and in the yard.)
2 leased Milw Road Hvy Mikes. For most of the year the 4 electrics can handle the load, but come harvest time the demand for tin, and the removal of canned goods, and the sugar beets heading to Madison overwhelm the capacity of the electrics. So during the fall two engines are leased.
2 Lt 2-10-2 bothe engines are stabled in Plover. There the pick up coal coming in from the Green Bay and Western and move it south to Portage. 2-10-2's they were chosen as they caused less wear and tear than the Hvy Mikes, but were able to shift the longer trains of coal and coke needed.
1 Gas-electric Doodlebug. Purchased from the $oo Line when the P&NW took over the line it still trundles along making passenger runs up and down the system. Discounted rates for workers commuting to Montello for the mine and Portage for the buisness there. The P&NW takes a very pro-active approach to ridership and has conducted market research in the communities it serves as to the best times to run. The schedule is a only through to Plover once a day until canning season then it's twice, with a 40 tonner pulling a pair of coachs and two morning runs and two evening runs during the week. On Sunday there is a morning run and a mid afternoon run
And if your wondering how the railroad got enough money to have the route electrifed from Portage to Plover, the railroad excersiced the clause in Rural Electrification Project to bring electricity to the towns along the route, but since the railroad couldn't actually OWN the power production, but could own the means of transmission, and the right of way of that transmission, it turned to the Coke retort in town to "own" power production, (Can you say collusion...anyone, anyone). Coloma was able to build a hydroelectric facility and lease power to the grid, but all of the other towns became net users. The P&NW is currently looking for suitable sites for additional power production.
Future aquisitions...
As my railroad is really only planned out to 1954, I do have some odd balls that have been aquired and will eventually make their appearence on the layout and do duty there.
1 Little Joe. Not sure what the story will be, or if my line could even survive long enough to pick one up second hand.
1 SNB Crocodile. Odd duck, thinking museum piece, or that GE or Westinghouse bought the lisence to produce in the US.
2 AB sets of Box Cabs. Purchased second hand from the Milw and brought east to Portage. They are being shopped to replace the 2-10-2 which have already been sold to the DM&IR (hence the paint scheme they are in) (I have one unpowered B unit. I am currently waiting for the Chief of Staff's permission to purchase a A unit when found and another pair.)
2 F7 AB sets. When the Milw dieselfies These are leased to help haul during the autumn.
jwhittenAre you looking for something larger with a bigger layout room?
The current layout room is 800 sq ft above my detached garage. Our current home is a 3800 sq ft, 2-1/2 story, 1901 Queen Anne. My wife has health issues that require one floor living. The new house will be a rancher, likely in the 1700 to 2000 sq ft range and the basements only purpose will be the layout (and utilities obviously). If we don't find something we like, we will build ourselves. So it is likely the new space will be larger.
jwhittenSo if you don't mind-- why do you like this week's post? Is it the topic? The presentation? The pictures? The subject build-up and examples? Just happens to be a topic near-n-dear to your heart? The interactive chit-chat? Something else??
I like the fact that it was about modeling, not about products or manufaturers or the cost of the hobby, or even about how we "feel", it was about the trains and about what we actually do or plan to do with them.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALjwhittenBTW-- Have I ever seen pictures of your layout?? I can't recall-- do you have a web site or a photo album someplace??? John, the layout was pretty far along track and benchwork wise (but no scenery yet) when we made a decision not to retire in our current home - SO, I have been in the process of dismanteling it and rebuilding it into a modular form so it can be moved. And, we are actually shopping for that retirement home now so the move may happen in the next few years. No I do not have a web site, I'm not overly computer oriented, so I don't know if that will ever happen. Photobucket was big step for me.
jwhittenBTW-- Have I ever seen pictures of your layout?? I can't recall-- do you have a web site or a photo album someplace???
John, the layout was pretty far along track and benchwork wise (but no scenery yet) when we made a decision not to retire in our current home - SO, I have been in the process of dismanteling it and rebuilding it into a modular form so it can be moved. And, we are actually shopping for that retirement home now so the move may happen in the next few years.
No I do not have a web site, I'm not overly computer oriented, so I don't know if that will ever happen. Photobucket was big step for me.
That's a shame, it would be nice to be able to see some pictures. Hopefully you'll get it figured out soon and then you can post some!!
ATLANTIC CENTRALSince railroads tended to buy locos in groups, and the influences of a master mechanic often controlled what was done, it only seemed natural.
Yes, that makes sense.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL (various era designations & details)
That's extremely interesting the way you built-up and layered your roster and thought through the various common modifications (details).
ATLANTIC CENTRALJohn, the layout was pretty far along track and benchwork wise (but no scenery yet) when we made a decision not to retire in our current home - SO, I have been in the process of dismanteling it and rebuilding it into a modular form so it can be moved. And, we are actually shopping for that retirement home now so the move may happen in the next few years.
Are you looking for something larger with a bigger layout room?
ATLANTIC CENTRALFor me, this part of the hobby is just as much fun as building and running the trains.
Yes, I like it as well, not sure if I like *more* than running trains, but its way up there and growing on me! I find that while I don't exactly "love" doing all the background work, I quickly get lost in it there's so much interesting stuff to dig up and know about. Its like a great big mystery that you have to solve, in a way-- you keep digging at it and peeling back the layers until you find the answers you're looking for. You never know where the investigation is gonna lead you and who you're gonna meet along the way. Its definitely a lot of fun in the end when it all comes together and you have a new nugget of information to add to the puzzle.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThis is by far one of your best Friday posts. Sheldon
This is by far one of your best Friday posts.
Thank you for saying so-- several people have said they liked it-- so now I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what I can do for an encore next week...
So if you don't mind-- why do you like this week's post? Is it the topic? The presentation? The pictures? The subject build-up and examples? Just happens to be a topic near-n-dear to your heart? The interactive chit-chat? Something else??
John
jwhitten Wow! You have given this a lot of thought, I'm impressed! A lot of interesting rationale, and I was especially intrigued to see that you had even considered different "eras" as well. I suspect that's a subtlety that's lost on a lot of modelers-- not that they couldn't implement it, but rather just haven't thought to do it. You talk about the "middle era" but don't give any dates-- how far back have you gone with this?
Wow! You have given this a lot of thought, I'm impressed!
A lot of interesting rationale, and I was especially intrigued to see that you had even considered different "eras" as well. I suspect that's a subtlety that's lost on a lot of modelers-- not that they couldn't implement it, but rather just haven't thought to do it. You talk about the "middle era" but don't give any dates-- how far back have you gone with this?
Thank you,
Since railroads tended to buy locos in groups, and the influences of a master mechanic often controlled what was done, it only seemed natural. If I showed you the whole steam roster, you would be able to visually group them:
Early - locos built 1900 to 1916 - all have been modernized somewhat but extensive changes not deemed a good investment - example - Spectrum large driver 4-6-0 with Vanderbilt oil tenders.
Middle - 1917 to 1940 - almost all are USRA copies, some have been modernized a lot, some only a little. Example - all with trailing trucks have Delta cast trailing trucks, all have USRA tenders or Vanderbilt tenders. Examples - USRA Heavy 4-8-2's, USRA Heavy 2-8-2's, USRA 2-6-6-2's, USRA 2-8-8-2's, USRA Light 4-6-2's.
Late - 1941 to end of steam production - typical modern designs, Reading T1 Northerns, my protolanced Lima super power Mikes (there is a long prototype story with this one), Modern Articulated locos, 2-6-6-4's and 2-6-6-6's. This locos have similar features, large modern water bottom tenders, pilot deck mounted air pumps, fead water heaters (which only a few of the middle era locos have).
We even have our own complete class/sub class designations.
For me, this part of the hobby is just as much fun as building and running the trains.
My protolanced Emerald, Leemer and Southern was made from a loose collection of almost abandoned CP/CN branchlines in the high plains/prairie region of North America. Oh yes, it also bought up a couple of old BN lines as well----hence the southern part The issue is that most of the lines we have here are such that we have to be careful with the size of engines I use. Picture, if you will, a railroad ROW literally "on the ground". Most lines without much in the way of ballasting. Rails themselves somewhat warped and wobbly. The main branch was recently redone with ballast as well as heavier rail put in. The rest, not so much---
The area being serviced is mostly flat to gently rolling terrain and very grain oriented. A granger route if there ever was one. The line hauls mostly grain, seed, fertilizer, with the odd tractor hauling and odd lots of stuff. The high season for grain harvest has everything out on the rails then---
The passenger traffic around here I established would be enough to keep a few RDC's running. The passengers are mostly of the "commuter" type--heading toward Williston, which is the largest community here. During the high season for fishing the two lodges bring in enough people that we sometimes have to bring in extra RDC's as well.
The engines, then, have to be light and strong enough to be able to still haul graintrains. What I came up with was a roster of ALCO RS1,2,3 and a few RS11's. I even found a few H16-44's as well for this road.
Yep. We even have an excuse for the occasional odd purchase----the local train museum and "hysterical"--OOPS--historical society guided by ol' Fred "how'dhedodat?" Thompson.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
jwhittenI had hoped though that folks might have talked about the "family look" a little more-- especially with examples from their roads, whether real or imaginary, what details and specifications their railroads did a little differently that pulled it all together into a "family look". Those are the kind of tips and information that would be invaluable to someone trying to think about and put together a coordinated roster-- and what they can either look for, or else add / customize on their own to achieve it.
I had hoped though that folks might have talked about the "family look" a little more-- especially with examples from their roads, whether real or imaginary, what details and specifications their railroads did a little differently that pulled it all together into a "family look". Those are the kind of tips and information that would be invaluable to someone trying to think about and put together a coordinated roster-- and what they can either look for, or else add / customize on their own to achieve it.
Well, my family look is mainly paint. Penn Lake's roster is entirely RS3s and S2/4s from Atlas, so that automatically created a family look to the fleet. I didn't add too many details, other then MU hoses to all the units, and steam generators to a couple.
Also my paint and numbering scheme ties PL back to it's parent Delaware & Hudson, though, it didn't adopt D&H's trademark lighting stripe scheme.
Although you didn't ask about cabooses...PL's cabooses are D&H style bay window types or Reading Northeastern ones (again hand me downs) but I numbered them into Reading's caboose series.
PenncentralI model the late 80's and only backdated to 1950 because the oldest units that I own are an SW7 and F7A/B.
That makes sense. Are you using 2-digit numbering because of your DCC system, or that's just the way you're doing it?
jwhitten Penncentral My fantasy regional purchased three locomotives every year starting in 1950. I just checked the diesel spotters guide to see what was available every year, and filled out the roster a couple of years ago. Now when a model catches my eye, I buy it. I take it home, repaint it, and add it into my fleet using the numbers I already planned out. That's an interesting idea. Did your fantasy regional exist prior to 1950? What did it use for locomotion before then? Was there a big flood or a roundhouse fire or something in 1949??? Just wondering what the rest of the story is?? John
Penncentral My fantasy regional purchased three locomotives every year starting in 1950. I just checked the diesel spotters guide to see what was available every year, and filled out the roster a couple of years ago. Now when a model catches my eye, I buy it. I take it home, repaint it, and add it into my fleet using the numbers I already planned out.
My fantasy regional purchased three locomotives every year starting in 1950. I just checked the diesel spotters guide to see what was available every year, and filled out the roster a couple of years ago. Now when a model catches my eye, I buy it. I take it home, repaint it, and add it into my fleet using the numbers I already planned out.
That's an interesting idea.
Did your fantasy regional exist prior to 1950?
What did it use for locomotion before then?
Was there a big flood or a roundhouse fire or something in 1949???
Just wondering what the rest of the story is??
I model the late 80's and only backdated to 1950 because the oldest units that I own are an SW7 and F7A/B. I started my roster with two digit numbers starting at #42 for the switcher. I planned on the gap incase I bought an even older diesel or bought steam for a heritage fleet. It had startup in the ninteenhundreds or twenties, haven't picked an exact date, but I left everything under #42 open because I dont know alot about steam. In the late 60's a track upgrade was started to handle heavier equirment like SD45's. Prior to this about 90% of the power was four axle.
Developing a roster - not an issue for me. My layout is set somewhere in the northern region of British Rail, just over the border. The period is late 1970´s to early 1980´s - BR´s "Blue TOPS Diesel" era. I can run just about any loco out of that era, be it a 4-axle or 6-axle loco. However, I focus on 4-axle Diesels of the class 25, called "Rat" for its ubiquitous appearance, class 26, called "MacRat" for its service in Scotland, and class 33. All of those locos saw passenger and freight service -BR´s bread and butter locos. The engine house (loco shed) is home to a "Jubilee" class 4-6-0 steamer in LMS livery. employed in steam special services.
Class 25 "Rat":
This is my "MacRat" - the first loco on my roster:
Class 33:
LMS "Jubilee":
All of my (future) locos are available by the "Big Three" of British outline model railroading- Bachmann, Hornby and Heljan, so sourcing is not an issue.
PenncentralMy fantasy regional purchased three locomotives every year starting in 1950. I just checked the diesel spotters guide to see what was available every year, and filled out the roster a couple of years ago. Now when a model catches my eye, I buy it. I take it home, repaint it, and add it into my fleet using the numbers I already planned out.
MisterBeasleyWell, the title is "How Do You Develop a Locomotive Roster?" Not how should you do it, but how do you you do it.
Its quite possible had I asked "How should you develop a locomotive roster?" all I'd have gotten was a bunch of blank stares....
It appears, at least from the people who have responded, that the predominate methods seem to be:
-- Because that's what the railroads I model did
-- Because that's what a railroad that is similar to what I model did
-- Because of generic terrain or service considerations
-- Because that's what I liked when I was in the store / aka "Serendipity"
And I actually like the answer that several people gave best of all-- Look for a railroad that operated in a similar manner and geographic location as yours and do what they did (or do). In the absence of an actual prototype to follow of course. In that instance, do what your prototype did (or does). That's simple enough.
MisterBeasleyAlong the way, I've picked up an Erie S1 and a Lackawanna SW7, both at bargain prices. I fell for an 0-6-0, completely out of my era, and I had to have that as well as a Hudson, as I decided to dual-era my railroad just to accomodate the steamers. One of these days, I'll probably re-flag the steamers, and maybe even the switchers, but for now I've got a lot of mongrels on my layout. I don't suppose the New York City subway cars belong their, either.
Don't worry, your secret's safe with me. I won't tell a soul.
nbrodarMy Penn Lake Railway is co-owned by the Delaware & Hudson and Reading, so PL's roster is based on those of it's parents. Most of the priority trains run with either D&H or RDG power, so that part was easy...what did the D&H and RDG use in the late 60s and early 70s. The PL proper power consists of ALCO S and RS units handed down from it's parents. Most have a D&H inspired paint scheme and numbered in the D&H series for each class.
My Penn Lake Railway is co-owned by the Delaware & Hudson and Reading, so PL's roster is based on those of it's parents.
Most of the priority trains run with either D&H or RDG power, so that part was easy...what did the D&H and RDG use in the late 60s and early 70s. The PL proper power consists of ALCO S and RS units handed down from it's parents. Most have a D&H inspired paint scheme and numbered in the D&H series for each class.
Nice photos Nick! I especially like the RS3.
My layout and railroad has similar heritage. My railroad, the South Pennsylvania Railroad, is part owned by the Pennsy. So while the South Penn has its own identity for much of its operations, it still is able to procure locomotives and such through its patron (the PRR). Likewise, the Montour RR, one of the other railroads I'm modeling on my layout, was also half-owned by the Pennsy. So there are opportunities there as well, although historically, it retained its own identity all the way to the very end (1984).
The thing I really like about this scheme, for now at least, is it makes it a lot easier to acquire locos, at least for the short run, and anything I can get in Pennsy livery belongs to the parent (Pennsy) while anything else belongs to the South Penn, or the Montour, or one of the other several roads on my layout.
Later when I have operations down and am ready to start whittling my rosters down to what they probably should be, I'll be able to better decide what to keep, repaint /detail, swap, etc.
fwrightIt's 1900 in Southwestern Oregon. The pain of the 1893 Depression has passed, and the lumber industry is booming down in California. Demand for Port Orford cedar is high both in California and Japan. Much of this is still transported from Port Orford in the lumber schooners. There is still plenty of redwood for cost-conscious customers. Coal has to be brought in by rail from Roseburg, so working sail still has a toehold. Coastal fishing is productive, and the salmon runs are plentiful. The cannery at Charleston runs hard from July to October.The Klondike gold rush has created some labor shortages, both in general and railroad-specific. The latter have been hired by the White Pass & Yukon and the Klondike Mining Railway to git 'er done when the local Skagway and Dawson City talent proved incompetent at building a railroad.Knuckle couplers and air brakes are now required for common carriers, so both the Picture Gorge & Western and the Port Orford & Elk River are so equipped. Superheaters are still unknown, so slide valves are the order of the day. Roseburg coal is just as cheap as wood, and is easier to manage for the railroads.
It's 1900 in Southwestern Oregon. The pain of the 1893 Depression has passed, and the lumber industry is booming down in California. Demand for Port Orford cedar is high both in California and Japan. Much of this is still transported from Port Orford in the lumber schooners. There is still plenty of redwood for cost-conscious customers. Coal has to be brought in by rail from Roseburg, so working sail still has a toehold. Coastal fishing is productive, and the salmon runs are plentiful. The cannery at Charleston runs hard from July to October.
The Klondike gold rush has created some labor shortages, both in general and railroad-specific. The latter have been hired by the White Pass & Yukon and the Klondike Mining Railway to git 'er done when the local Skagway and Dawson City talent proved incompetent at building a railroad.
Knuckle couplers and air brakes are now required for common carriers, so both the Picture Gorge & Western and the Port Orford & Elk River are so equipped. Superheaters are still unknown, so slide valves are the order of the day. Roseburg coal is just as cheap as wood, and is easier to manage for the railroads.
Your description of your railroad sounds fantastic! I'd love to see it. Do you have a web site or a photo album url you could post??
Your rationale for your roster sounds right on as well. Thank you for telling us about it.
ccarannaWay too much thinking and not enough modeling going on here. Ugh.
Yeah, probably so. I'm waiting for my coffers to refill so I can buy the tile I need to fill the holes on the floor from where I moved the walls and mech room stuff around. What sucks is that I have the wood I need to keep building the layout and am just *raring* to go on it, but I know if I put the cart before the horse I'll regret it. The layout has to go right where the floor needs to be tiled. Plus I have to do some framing and drywall work to put the room back into presentable shape. That won't cost much or take much time, but its just another thing on the list.
So, until then... I reckon you're stuck with the cerebral. At least I included pictures for the lexigraphically-challeged....
twhiteYou ask a very interesting question, and I'll have to give you a kinda/sorta 'roundabout' answer. To begin with, I grew up very close to the SP Donner Pass line during WWII and the ensuing 'last days' of steam, so I knew that Big Grades=Big Steam.
That's interesting. So if I interpret your answer correctly, you're saying that, in essence, you're picking your roster based on what you recall from your childhood / earlier years in real life? In addition to the general knowledge of the large gradients and such.
I'm going to go check out your layout again-- with that in mind.
Thanks for the info!
BRAKIEI am the Operations Coordinator(a fancy name for manager) for the C&HV which is a borderline operation that usually turns a small profit..The C&HV is always under the watchful eyes of the MRT.
I am the "Brass Hat" which is a fancy name for everything from cook to bottle-washer to janitor to everything in-between... Anything leftover to be done, that's my job!
Of course, I get to blow the whistle any time I like. That's a pretty good perk
It is my job to run the train the whistle I can darn well blowIt is my place to say how far the train's allowed to go It is my place to shoot off steam and even ring the bellbut let the darned thing jump the track and see who pays the bill!
It is my job to run the train the whistle I can darn well blow
It is my place to say how far the train's allowed to go
It is my place to shoot off steam and even ring the bell
but let the darned thing jump the track and see who pays the bill!
ATLANTIC CENTRALBeing a freelance, or maybe "protolance" modeler, much planning went into deciding what locos would be used. I did plan the layout first, and to a large degree, the operational scheme as well. That detemined how many locos would be needed and for what types of trains.
Being a freelance, or maybe "protolance" modeler, much planning went into deciding what locos would be used.
I did plan the layout first, and to a large degree, the operational scheme as well. That detemined how many locos would be needed and for what types of trains.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThere is a representation of C&O, B&O and WM power which closely, but not exactly, matches the era and locale of the interchanges with the ACR. Some prototype facts have been "stretched" a little for favorites and/or convenience of available models.
Nothing wrong with that-- its your railroad!
ATLANTIC CENTRALDiesels - Basicly, do to the era, everything is 1st generation. We only buy EMD and ALCO for the most part. Exceptions are some GE and Baldwin switchers. Being early in the diesel thing, most are still run as "matched sets". ABA or ABBA sets of EMD F units or ALCO FA's are quite abundent. Road switchers are entering the picture with several sets of GP7's some ALCO RS units and the two newest locos on the property - a pair of EMD SD9's. Passenger diesels are dominated by ALCO PA's, but we are also testing EMD E units and EMD FP units. The FP units may well prove to be the dominate passenger power in the near future, and a number of the EMD freight units are steam heat equiped for dual service assignment. In the case of both steam and diesel, there is a lot of duplication to give that big railroad feel to the roster and fill up the engine terminal with locos ready for power changes, a big part of the operational scheme.
Diesels - Basicly, do to the era, everything is 1st generation. We only buy EMD and ALCO for the most part. Exceptions are some GE and Baldwin switchers.
Being early in the diesel thing, most are still run as "matched sets". ABA or ABBA sets of EMD F units or ALCO FA's are quite abundent. Road switchers are entering the picture with several sets of GP7's some ALCO RS units and the two newest locos on the property - a pair of EMD SD9's.
Passenger diesels are dominated by ALCO PA's, but we are also testing EMD E units and EMD FP units. The FP units may well prove to be the dominate passenger power in the near future, and a number of the EMD freight units are steam heat equiped for dual service assignment.
In the case of both steam and diesel, there is a lot of duplication to give that big railroad feel to the roster and fill up the engine terminal with locos ready for power changes, a big part of the operational scheme.
Yeah, same thing on my railroad-- I'm stretching it a little so I can get a few UB25's into the picture. May not run them often, but that's pretty much the outer limit of what I want to run. Most of my diesels-- road engines anyway-- are GP7/9's and SD7/9's. Although I do have some GP18's I got that I want to "back-date" to GP9's. I bought them a number of years ago before I had really clarified in my mind what I want my layout to be-- and I discovered that there is very little cosmetic difference between the two.
BTW-- Have I ever seen pictures of your layout?? I can't recall-- do you have a web site or a photo album someplace???
CNJ831For my latest layout I wanted to do one set in the northeastern U.S. (Hudson Valley) in mid autumn.
Does your layout's "geographic region" (Hudson Valley) not have any significant grades (even if they're not depicted) ?? If it does, then wouldn't you want at least some (a few maybe) larger locomotives-- if nothing else to simply suggest that there are grades on the line "elsewhere" ??
CNJ831All this being true, the design of the layout...as well as the motivepower roster...virtually created itself!
The roster may have but your layout certainly didn't-- you have got one s-w-e-e-e-e-e-t layout for sure! I love your fall colors.And your avatar just rocks.
Well, the title is "How Do You Develop a Locomotive Roster?" Not how should you do it, but how do you you do it.
It's not the way it should be done, but I may be more typical of model railroaders in general. Sometime in my late 50s, I started with a bunch of trains bequeathed to me 40 years earlier by my younger self. It was a collection of late Transition Era diesels and a couple of steamers. The predominant line was Milwaukee. It seemed as good a starting point as any, and I still liked the colors. So, I went out in search of replacements for my rubber-band-drive GP9 and F7. I found a great price at M.B. Klein, but their home page had a Milwaukee RS-3, and I had to have that, too.
Along the way, I've picked up an Erie S1 and a Lackawanna SW7, both at bargain prices. I fell for an 0-6-0, completely out of my era, and I had to have that as well as a Hudson, as I decided to dual-era my railroad just to accomodate the steamers. One of these days, I'll probably re-flag the steamers, and maybe even the switchers, but for now I've got a lot of mongrels on my layout. I don't suppose the New York City subway cars belong their, either.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
S2 3035:
RS3 4118:
I already posted most of this in another thread a couple of weeks ago:
Trains on the model version are quite short for a variety of reasons, so big locomotives are out.
The switchbacks out of Port Orford with their 6% grades and short tail tracks are geared locomotive territory. 2 Class A Shays meet the need.
A combine and a coach are sufficient for the daily passenger service, so an old 4-4- purchased used fills the bill.
Once above the switchbacks, more speed is needed to cover the ground with the loaded logs, loaded lumber, and general freight (including bringing coal and ice west). A pair of used 1880 vintage Baldwin 2-6-0s carry the load. Management has been keeping tabs on the Colorado experience with heavier 2-8-0s, and may venture there if cash flow and traffic continue to increase.
The lumber mill has gotten quite busy, and a used Porter 0-4-2T (wood burner) takes care of local switching duties, and making up trains for the 2-6-0s. If one of the Shays is out of commission, the Porter is run over to take care of switching the docks.
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
jwhittenI suspect I am about to as a very under-stated question with lots of side-issues and subjective answers.... but here goes anyway...How does one develop a locomotive roster? I'm not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a "real" railroad. And I'm certain there are about as many approaches to this as there are railroads. And I'm pretty sure that there is at least some measure of serendipity at play as well. So how does a novice Model Railroader know which locomotives to select? What features to look for-- or add-on later? What details are specific to a single locomotive versus typically added to all/most locomotives of a class or a fleet, versus what all/most railroads did? How do you go about selecting specific locomotives for the roster? How does one know, for instance, that a 2-6-4 Pacific is not generally a good choice for hauling long coal drags through the mountains of West Virginia? Or conversely that a 2-8-8-8-2 Triplex is probably not the best lineup for the top-of-the-line premier passenger service...? The Devil's Always in the Details... It seems to me, pursuant to answering this question for my own model railroads, that there are a number of factors that are relevant:-- Type of Railroad: Class 1, Short line, Bridge, Regional, etc.-- Health of Railroad: poor, fair, good, gushing cash-- ROW Condition: poor, fair, good, excellent-- Region of operation: East, West, North, South, Mountain, Plains, Coastal, etc.-- Era: early, civil war, turn-of-the-century, war years, transition era, early modern, modern-- Owners / Partners / External Influence / Proximity to another similar railroad-- Type of Service(s) offered: Freight, Passenger, Inter-Urban, metropolitan (commuter), captured service (specific industry)-- Type of Goods Hauled: Coal, Finished Good, People, Mail-- Terrain / Climate: flat, hilly, mountainous, urban, rural, hot, cold, wet, dry (desert)-- Type and Availability of Fuel-- Track geometry: tight curves, average curves, mostly straight-- Length of train / Weight: small, medium, large, very large (very heavy)-- Plus probably other stuff I haven't thought of...And then there are the specific technical / engineering considerations that I personally have little or no knowledge of, or even much clue how to obtain the requisite information, aside from simply asking. I think its a safe bet that, generally speaking, pretty much everybody's railroad, whether real or in model form, consists of some subset of the above factors. Thus it is likely that these factors provide, at least, a pretty good starting point and basis for locomotive selection. Therefore I think its a reasonable assumption to state that most real locomotive selections can ultimately be whittled down further into a few generalized observations along the following lines: -- What is available in the manufacturer's catalog-- What the manufacturer or some other railroad is selling (or selling-off) cheap-- What the railroad can manufacture itself-- Preference of the owner or strong-influencer-- Equipment goals / preferences by the railroad's engineering department Location, Location, Location! Another primary consideration that would greatly influence the selection is the type of terrain and service the locomotive would experience in its regular operation. Railroads operating in eastern mountainous territories needed different types of locomotives than did railroads operating on the western plains. Likewise a railroad operating in a major metropolitan city will have different considerations than a lightweight belt line. Railroads with lots of tight curves and track grades need locomotives with smaller wheelbases, or else articulated frames, in order to negotiate the curves. At the same time however, those locomotives would need to develop a larger amount of tractive effort in order to haul cars up and down the grades. That would in turn influence the size of the driving wheels and pistons, along with the size and shape of the boiler and associated boiler pressure. Whereas in contrast, railroads operating in flatter, more "open" terrain with broader curves, could choose pretty much any locomotive style they wanted-- and could afford-- including locomotives with longer wheelbases that could offer more power at the railhead-- whether delivered as speed or improved tractive effort-- which meant for the railroad gains in either overall travel time, good for passenger service, or else longer / higher-tonnage freight trains and a better competitive profile. Researching Online...While researching this question, I ran across the following site which offered some useful opinions and insights into the question: Building a Good Locomotive Roster:http://modelrailroading.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/building-a-good-locomotive-roster/I thought it was a pretty good read recommend it to anyone considering building up their roster. But in my reading, it seemed more of a starting point, generating more questions than answers, though it does give general advice which seems helpful. That was the only web site with good solid information that I was able to find right off. I'm sure there are probably others and I'd sure like to know about them if anybody has links they could supply. I'll edit this article and insert them here if I receive any. EDIT: Steinjr has helpfully contributed these links to previous threads, here on the MRR web site, that ennumerate some of the choices that other people have made."Here is an old thread about what some people's engine rosters are like: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151763/1678908.aspxThe thread mentioned above contains references to two previous "what's in your roster" threads:Thread from 2007 with 166 answers: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/10254.aspxThread from November 2008 with 78 replies: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/142253/1583513.aspxHave a look at the old threads, and see if you can work out how people have built their rosters :-)Smile,Stein" The Class-I RailroadsMost Class-I railroads, and apparently many Class-II's as well, manufactured, or caused to be manufactured, their "own" locomotives, or else used generic designs-- the USRA designs for instance-- and then customized with their own features and specifications which tended to create a "family look" across large portions of the railroad's fleet of locomotives. Thus for knowledgeable observers, it was often fairly easy to tell which locomotive belonged to which railroad even without seeing the name just by recognizing elements and features that were common to a particular road. Typical items that a railroad might change could be the headlight and bell placement, the pilot style or the type of boiler or firebox used. The Pennsylvania Railroad, for example, was well-known for using Belpaire type fireboxes which gave their locomotives a very distinctive hump on top of the boiler near the cab. The only other major railroad to use Belpaire fireboxes was the Great Northern. So it was a pretty safe bet-- depending on your locale-- if you saw a locomotive sporting a Belpaire firebox, you knew which railroad it belonged to. Other items that were commonly switched around include the generator placement, different types of tenders: local, long-haul, etc., and the fuel type: coal, oil, etc. Then these specifications would have been applied throughout the extent of the railroad to all, or most, locomotives of similar class. When you have a lot of locomotives to service and keep track of, its important to minimize the number of conditional factors that add expense, can cause problems, or introduce delays or errors into the workflow. While there were still exceptions based on engineering considerations, or market forces, or government interference, the railroads were keen on standardization wherever possible as a way of trimming costs and simplifying maintenance to the greatest extent possible. The Pennsylvania Railroad in particular took the concept of "standardization" to new heights and formed laboratories that were unprecedented for their time to test all manner of things and generate "standardized preferences" based on the results. As evidenced by the many discussions put forth here, on the MR web site, there are any number of myriad details to consider, even in addition to the various general considerations and factors outlined above! One thing though that stands out as a principle selection criterion-- at least as much as any other, and whether implemented in actual practice or not-- was the goal of minimizing the number of different locomotive types and manufacturers to the whatever extent possible in order to reduce the number of maintenance personnel and spare parts needed to service the fleet. And this would have been especially true in the steam era as steam engines were notoriously "individual", even when they were supposedly "standardized", due to the large number of "wear items" involved. The "Other Guys"... But what about smaller railroads? The short lines... the mom & pop railroads barely eking out a living-- what criteria do they use for selection? Money? The "el-cheapness" factor? That'd be my guess-- whatever is available the cheapest at the time of selection that will do the job. Clinchfield / Haysi RailroadI read an interesting blurb in a book about the Clinchfield railroad about a creative solution that was employed at one of the mines they serviced-- it needed a shifter / pusher engine for extremely light duty, moving coal hoppers around the two or three tracks they had off the mainline. To meet this need they purchased an old 'F'-style "B" unit from the Clinchfield railroad to do the job. The blurb pointed out that the "B" units had "Hostler" controls in them that were satisfactory for the simple job of shuffling around the cars. I thought it was pretty clever, and it certainly met the requirement of "cheap". "Clinchfield Country" Web SItehttp://clinchfieldcountry.com/photos/haysi.htm The Montour RailroadThe Montour railroad, one of the roads I've been researching for my own layout, standardized on small diesel switch engines as it transitioned out of the steam era. SW7's / SW9's and the like were the standard order of the day which proved to be a good selection as it reduced the operating and maintenance costs, maintenance personnel, and the number of in-stock spare parts needed to service the locomotives. They had short wheelbases, 4-wheeled trucks, and could be mixed-and-matched (MU'd) in various combinations to achieve the motive power requirements for any given run. The Montour owed its existance primarily to the coal and mineral customers it served in a very small, but profitable, belt around the outskirts of Pittsburgh PA. The Montour Railroad Web Sitehttp://www.montourrr.com/index.htmlThe Montour Railroad Locomotive Rosterhttp://www.montourrr.com/roster.htmThe Sumpter Valley Railroad One specific type of railroad industry that had lots of "detail" options is the logging and mountain coal / minerals railroad. These railroads often used Shays, Climaxes or other geared locomotives that were as unique as the trainmen who ran them. Operating in remote mountain or back-woods regions (or both!), geared locomotives were often outfitted with spark arrestors, fire-fighting equipment, deer antlers, and an odd assortment of on-board spare parts, tools, and other assorted paraphenalia related to operations or field maintenance. Additionally, their pilots were often replaced with simple wooden beams and their cabs "modified" to suit the climate-- more open in southern climes and closed-off in the colder regions. The Sumpter Valley Railroad Web Site: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mydickfamily/locomotives_of_the_svrr.htm Establishing the "Family Look"Getting back to the "Family Look" aspect touched upon above, one of the specific questions I have in developing my own roster, is what details are important? How do I go about deciding what "details" would have been ordered or applied by the specific railroad that would achieve the "look". I realize that the railroads did not ordinarily order or detail locomotives with the specific intent of "creating a look", rather they had a series of "operational preferences" that dictated this detail or that-- in general. Though once specified, I suspect the railroads wanted to "standardize" on parts and equipment and so ordered the same or similar types of components for their various locomotives, where applicable, which by defacto, created a distinctive "look" for the railroad. So the question really here-- especially for the modeler not connected with the railroad industry-- how do you know what details are available or might have been chosen for your particular railroad? Any Color You Want as Long as its Black! But what if you're not modeling the Pennsy or the Southern Pacific, the Santa Fe, or one of the other major railroads that the various model railroading manufacturers have cranked-out model after model for, what do you do? In addition to the design and selection criteria put to the "real" railroads to consider, you also have the practical availability, considerations and / or limitations put forth by the model manufacturers as well-- not to mention your own modeling skills for follow-on details and your budget to consider. As the "Brass Hat" of your own railroad, plus being "Chief Engineer" (plus Cook and Bottle Washer), you have both at the same time a seemingly unending selection of models to choose from, as well as a very constrained selection of models to choose from upon, closer inspection. ...What's a poor modeler to do...? My Questions for Today:With so many factors to consider, technical details, utilitarian preferences, and plain serendipity to consider, how does a modeler pick and choose and make any kind of informed selection? Where does one begin? What details are important to consider? Which are less important? How important is a "family look"? How important is a "plausible selection"? How many locomotives should a railroad own? Are locomotives bound to a particular district or region? Or do they (all or some) travel all over the extent of the railroad? How does one best select models to represent their railroad's choices?As usual, I'm looking forward to your opinions...What is the best way to develop a locomotive roster?John
I suspect I am about to as a very under-stated question with lots of side-issues and subjective answers.... but here goes anyway...
How does one develop a locomotive roster?
I'm not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a "real" railroad. And I'm certain there are about as many approaches to this as there are railroads. And I'm pretty sure that there is at least some measure of serendipity at play as well.
So how does a novice Model Railroader know which locomotives to select? What features to look for-- or add-on later? What details are specific to a single locomotive versus typically added to all/most locomotives of a class or a fleet, versus what all/most railroads did? How do you go about selecting specific locomotives for the roster?
How does one know, for instance, that a 2-6-4 Pacific is not generally a good choice for hauling long coal drags through the mountains of West Virginia? Or conversely that a 2-8-8-8-2 Triplex is probably not the best lineup for the top-of-the-line premier passenger service...?
The Devil's Always in the Details...
It seems to me, pursuant to answering this question for my own model railroads, that there are a number of factors that are relevant:
And then there are the specific technical / engineering considerations that I personally have little or no knowledge of, or even much clue how to obtain the requisite information, aside from simply asking.
I think its a safe bet that, generally speaking, pretty much everybody's railroad, whether real or in model form, consists of some subset of the above factors. Thus it is likely that these factors provide, at least, a pretty good starting point and basis for locomotive selection. Therefore I think its a reasonable assumption to state that most real locomotive selections can ultimately be whittled down further into a few generalized observations along the following lines:
Location, Location, Location!
Another primary consideration that would greatly influence the selection is the type of terrain and service the locomotive would experience in its regular operation. Railroads operating in eastern mountainous territories needed different types of locomotives than did railroads operating on the western plains. Likewise a railroad operating in a major metropolitan city will have different considerations than a lightweight belt line. Railroads with lots of tight curves and track grades need locomotives with smaller wheelbases, or else articulated frames, in order to negotiate the curves. At the same time however, those locomotives would need to develop a larger amount of tractive effort in order to haul cars up and down the grades. That would in turn influence the size of the driving wheels and pistons, along with the size and shape of the boiler and associated boiler pressure.
Whereas in contrast, railroads operating in flatter, more "open" terrain with broader curves, could choose pretty much any locomotive style they wanted-- and could afford-- including locomotives with longer wheelbases that could offer more power at the railhead-- whether delivered as speed or improved tractive effort-- which meant for the railroad gains in either overall travel time, good for passenger service, or else longer / higher-tonnage freight trains and a better competitive profile.
Researching Online...
While researching this question, I ran across the following site which offered some useful opinions and insights into the question:
I thought it was a pretty good read recommend it to anyone considering building up their roster. But in my reading, it seemed more of a starting point, generating more questions than answers, though it does give general advice which seems helpful.
That was the only web site with good solid information that I was able to find right off. I'm sure there are probably others and I'd sure like to know about them if anybody has links they could supply. I'll edit this article and insert them here if I receive any.
EDIT: Steinjr has helpfully contributed these links to previous threads, here on the MRR web site, that ennumerate some of the choices that other people have made.
"Here is an old thread about what some people's engine rosters are like: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151763/1678908.aspxThe thread mentioned above contains references to two previous "what's in your roster" threads:Thread from 2007 with 166 answers: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/10254.aspxThread from November 2008 with 78 replies: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/142253/1583513.aspxHave a look at the old threads, and see if you can work out how people have built their rosters :-)Smile,Stein"
"Here is an old thread about what some people's engine rosters are like: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/151763/1678908.aspxThe thread mentioned above contains references to two previous "what's in your roster" threads:
Thread from 2007 with 166 answers: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/10254.aspx
Thread from November 2008 with 78 replies: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/142253/1583513.aspx
Have a look at the old threads, and see if you can work out how people have built their rosters :-)
Smile,Stein"
The Class-I Railroads
Most Class-I railroads, and apparently many Class-II's as well, manufactured, or caused to be manufactured, their "own" locomotives, or else used generic designs-- the USRA designs for instance-- and then customized with their own features and specifications which tended to create a "family look" across large portions of the railroad's fleet of locomotives. Thus for knowledgeable observers, it was often fairly easy to tell which locomotive belonged to which railroad even without seeing the name just by recognizing elements and features that were common to a particular road.
Typical items that a railroad might change could be the headlight and bell placement, the pilot style or the type of boiler or firebox used. The Pennsylvania Railroad, for example, was well-known for using Belpaire type fireboxes which gave their locomotives a very distinctive hump on top of the boiler near the cab.
The only other major railroad to use Belpaire fireboxes was the Great Northern. So it was a pretty safe bet-- depending on your locale-- if you saw a locomotive sporting a Belpaire firebox, you knew which railroad it belonged to.
Other items that were commonly switched around include the generator placement, different types of tenders: local, long-haul, etc., and the fuel type: coal, oil, etc. Then these specifications would have been applied throughout the extent of the railroad to all, or most, locomotives of similar class.
When you have a lot of locomotives to service and keep track of, its important to minimize the number of conditional factors that add expense, can cause problems, or introduce delays or errors into the workflow.
While there were still exceptions based on engineering considerations, or market forces, or government interference, the railroads were keen on standardization wherever possible as a way of trimming costs and simplifying maintenance to the greatest extent possible. The Pennsylvania Railroad in particular took the concept of "standardization" to new heights and formed laboratories that were unprecedented for their time to test all manner of things and generate "standardized preferences" based on the results.
As evidenced by the many discussions put forth here, on the MR web site, there are any number of myriad details to consider, even in addition to the various general considerations and factors outlined above! One thing though that stands out as a principle selection criterion-- at least as much as any other, and whether implemented in actual practice or not-- was the goal of minimizing the number of different locomotive types and manufacturers to the whatever extent possible in order to reduce the number of maintenance personnel and spare parts needed to service the fleet.
And this would have been especially true in the steam era as steam engines were notoriously "individual", even when they were supposedly "standardized", due to the large number of "wear items" involved.
The "Other Guys"... But what about smaller railroads? The short lines... the mom & pop railroads barely eking out a living-- what criteria do they use for selection? Money? The "el-cheapness" factor? That'd be my guess-- whatever is available the cheapest at the time of selection that will do the job.
Clinchfield / Haysi Railroad
I read an interesting blurb in a book about the Clinchfield railroad about a creative solution that was employed at one of the mines they serviced-- it needed a shifter / pusher engine for extremely light duty, moving coal hoppers around the two or three tracks they had off the mainline. To meet this need they purchased an old 'F'-style "B" unit from the Clinchfield railroad to do the job. The blurb pointed out that the "B" units had "Hostler" controls in them that were satisfactory for the simple job of shuffling around the cars. I thought it was pretty clever, and it certainly met the requirement of "cheap".
"Clinchfield Country" Web SItehttp://clinchfieldcountry.com/photos/haysi.htm
The Montour Railroad
The Montour railroad, one of the roads I've been researching for my own layout, standardized on small diesel switch engines as it transitioned out of the steam era. SW7's / SW9's and the like were the standard order of the day which proved to be a good selection as it reduced the operating and maintenance costs, maintenance personnel, and the number of in-stock spare parts needed to service the locomotives. They had short wheelbases, 4-wheeled trucks, and could be mixed-and-matched (MU'd) in various combinations to achieve the motive power requirements for any given run. The Montour owed its existance primarily to the coal and mineral customers it served in a very small, but profitable, belt around the outskirts of Pittsburgh PA.
The Sumpter Valley Railroad
One specific type of railroad industry that had lots of "detail" options is the logging and mountain coal / minerals railroad. These railroads often used Shays, Climaxes or other geared locomotives that were as unique as the trainmen who ran them. Operating in remote mountain or back-woods regions (or both!), geared locomotives were often outfitted with spark arrestors, fire-fighting equipment, deer antlers, and an odd assortment of on-board spare parts, tools, and other assorted paraphenalia related to operations or field maintenance. Additionally, their pilots were often replaced with simple wooden beams and their cabs "modified" to suit the climate-- more open in southern climes and closed-off in the colder regions.
The Sumpter Valley Railroad Web Site: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mydickfamily/locomotives_of_the_svrr.htm
Establishing the "Family Look"Getting back to the "Family Look" aspect touched upon above, one of the specific questions I have in developing my own roster, is what details are important? How do I go about deciding what "details" would have been ordered or applied by the specific railroad that would achieve the "look". I realize that the railroads did not ordinarily order or detail locomotives with the specific intent of "creating a look", rather they had a series of "operational preferences" that dictated this detail or that-- in general.
Though once specified, I suspect the railroads wanted to "standardize" on parts and equipment and so ordered the same or similar types of components for their various locomotives, where applicable, which by defacto, created a distinctive "look" for the railroad. So the question really here-- especially for the modeler not connected with the railroad industry-- how do you know what details are available or might have been chosen for your particular railroad?
Any Color You Want as Long as its Black!
But what if you're not modeling the Pennsy or the Southern Pacific, the Santa Fe, or one of the other major railroads that the various model railroading manufacturers have cranked-out model after model for, what do you do? In addition to the design and selection criteria put to the "real" railroads to consider, you also have the practical availability, considerations and / or limitations put forth by the model manufacturers as well-- not to mention your own modeling skills for follow-on details and your budget to consider. As the "Brass Hat" of your own railroad, plus being "Chief Engineer" (plus Cook and Bottle Washer), you have both at the same time a seemingly unending selection of models to choose from, as well as a very constrained selection of models to choose from upon, closer inspection.
My Questions for Today:With so many factors to consider, technical details, utilitarian preferences, and plain serendipity to consider, how does a modeler pick and choose and make any kind of informed selection? Where does one begin? What details are important to consider? Which are less important? How important is a "family look"? How important is a "plausible selection"? How many locomotives should a railroad own? Are locomotives bound to a particular district or region? Or do they (all or some) travel all over the extent of the railroad? How does one best select models to represent their railroad's choices?As usual, I'm looking forward to your opinions...What is the best way to develop a locomotive roster?John
jwhitten So are you saying that you selected your locomotives because you have knowledge that a N-N-N-N type locomotive is better with respect to this or that type of terrain and gradient, or are you selecting your locomotives "by the numbers" based on typical practice by similar railroads? Or maybe some of both? What I'm wondering is if there are any considerations you're applying other than just statistics? John BTW-- you have a great layout, I've seen your pictures!
So are you saying that you selected your locomotives because you have knowledge that a N-N-N-N type locomotive is better with respect to this or that type of terrain and gradient, or are you selecting your locomotives "by the numbers" based on typical practice by similar railroads? Or maybe some of both?
What I'm wondering is if there are any considerations you're applying other than just statistics?
BTW-- you have a great layout, I've seen your pictures!
John: Thanks for the compliment--it's definitely a 'work in progress', LOL!
You ask a very interesting question, and I'll have to give you a kinda/sorta 'roundabout' answer. To begin with, I grew up very close to the SP Donner Pass line during WWII and the ensuing 'last days' of steam, so I knew that Big Grades=Big Steam.
Though the Rio Grande had a relatively large roster of big steam for it's size, a great many of them were relegated to specific districts. In other words, you'd more than likely see 2-10-2's at work on Utah's Soldier Summit, but probably not on Colorado's Tennessee Pass. However, you'd probably see their big simple 2-8-8-2's and later, their 4-6-6-4's pretty much system wide. Ditto for their various classes of 4-8-2 and 4-8-4 locos.
On my Yuba River Sub, the main terminal of Deer Creek is where 'Valley' power (locos coming up from the Sacramento Valley) are either changed over to 'mountain' power (Deer Creek begins my 2% average grade), or have helpers added for the trip over Yuba Summit. Generally speaking, an eastbound freight coming into Deer Creek will be pulled by a 4-8-2. Then the loco is either changed out to an articulated, or additional power is added--sometimes another 4-8-2 or even a 2-10-2 or 2-8-8-2 as helper. So, it's kind of a hit-and-miss proposition of what locomotive is actually going to be pulling the train over the majority of the layout at any given time. This is WWII, and the Rio Grande is--like a lot of railroads during that era--scrambling for enough motive power to fill a district enough to keep the trains moving.
Which of course, leads to 'leasing' locomotives from other railroads that can spare them. In my case, the Colorado and Southern (3), Great Northern (3), and as far east as the Chesapeake and Ohio (3). It's also led to 'my' Rio Grande going directly to Baldwin and ordering copies of formerly leased Missabe 2-8-8-4's (used mainly in expedited eastbound fruit blocks).
So in my case, it's applying specific locomotives for specific jobs. 4-8-2's for general freight, 2-10-2's for either helper or drag freight, and the large articulateds to take over when a locomotive 'change-over' is required at Deer Creek. Through passenger service is generally one of my two classes of 4-8-4's, either double-headed out of Deer Creek, or given a 3-cylinder 4-8-2 as helper. I have two 4-6-2's which are used on the "Yuba River Express" (which is anything but), the local daily passenger train.
But generally speaking, the number of duplicate locomotive types I have pretty much depends on what I figured would be the prevailing traffic pattern at any given time during the era in which the railroad is set.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
John ask:
Sounds good.... saving money is always good. Why EMD though? Is that just a personal preference or is there some additional reasoning there?
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I chose EMD because of their prototype dependability.My two favorite railroads(C&O and N&W) leaned heavily on EMDs so,for me it was easy to choose EMD.
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As I mention C&HV is owned by CDBI and settled for 4 axle Geeps regardless of terrain..I got this idea from the C&O,N&W and Southern since they lean toward 4 axle units more then 6 axle.
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As far as the bottom line CDBI is a aggressive short line operator that stays in the black.Should a short line start losing revenue it is investigated and if need be a Management Recovery Team(MRT for short) is sent in to correct the problems or recommend partial or complete abandonment..
I am the Operations Coordinator(a fancy name for manager) for the C&HV which is a borderline operation that usually turns a small profit..The C&HV is always under the watchful eyes of the MRT.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
In my case: 1954, large Class I system set in the Mid Atlantic/Ohio Valley, double track mainline on the modeled "divisions", modern (for that time) heavy well maintained right of way, up to date and well maintained motive power.
My other guidelines come from similar actual prototypes, some of which do interchange with my railroad, so I do model them as well to a lesser extent. The interchange roads are the C&O, B&O and WM.
My ATLANTIC CENTRAL does have some specific "rules" about motive power, some are:
No 10 coupled steam - curves and grades are too sharp, articulated locos prefered over long rigid wheel bases, 2-6-6-2's, 2-6-6-4's, 2-6-6-6's make up the bulk of the articulated fleet.
No Berkshire locos - Like the B&O we found our Mikes (we do call them MacArthur's) and Mountains to be more than adequate. The B&O never owned a a Berk or a Northern - the ACR does have two Northern's, but like the real world, they are a very small minority.
Speed is important, we are on the cutting edge of fast freight and this new thing called "piggyback". The 4-8-2's and our Lima built super power Mikes with 69" drivers fill this bill along with the newer articulated's, 2-6-6-4's and 2-6-6-6's - not to mention those new "diesel - electric" locos that keep showing up.
Only a limited number of different wheel arrangements are represented - because of the criteria set out above, most steam is "medium" to "medium large". Most prevalent wheel arrangements - 4-8-2's, 2-8-0's, 2-8-2's, 4-6-2's. Many railroads never owned "every" wheel arrangement. The N&W never owned a 2-8-2, the B&O never owned a 2-8-4 or a 4-8-4. The ACR never owned a 2-10-0, 2-10-2, 2-8-4, or a 2-6-2.
Common fetures - headlight and bell placements, pilot types, air pump locations, tender types,trailing truck types, valve gear types, etc, are similar or the same on most locos - this gives a strong family look to the steam fleet.
Most are "heavy"/larger versions of their type, AND, the features of the steam fleet can be identified into sevral distinct eras based on their age. The "middle era" is dominated by USRA designs, again mostly heavy versions - 4-8-2's, 2-8-2's and some USRA light 4-6-2's (the light was chosen here for its smaller drivers, more suited to our grades).
Most steam is coal fired, being and east coast coal hualer, but, most passenger steam is oil fired for cleanliness and to conform to smoke ordinances in major cities.
Most very small steam is gone, a few 10 Wheelers and Atlantics still hang on for commuter and way freight work (although these types may be come better represented in the future).
The standing joke is all locos must be bought in a minimum quantity of two so as to justify their existance. There are some exceptions, but not many.
There is a representation of C&O, B&O and WM power which closely, but not exactly, matches the era and locale of the interchanges with the ACR. Some prototype facts have been "stretched" a little for favorites and/or convenience of available models.
All of the classes/sub classes are carefully documented on paper as any good railroad would do.
So a vist to the ACR is not a museum tour, there are no Big Boy's, Challengers, (actually no west coast prototypes at all), no PRR power (far to distictive to reletter ACR), no triplex's (no interest here in failed experiments), nothing that would not have been seen in this region in 1954.
Just a necessary fleet of locos to move the goods and people down the line. Some examples: