Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Philosophy Friday -- How Do You Develop a Locomotive Roster ???

24362 views
66 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 3,150 posts
Posted by CNJ831 on Saturday, April 3, 2010 8:23 AM

Choices seemed pretty straight forward in my case. For my latest layout I wanted to do one set in the northeastern U.S. (Hudson Valley) in mid autumn. Because of space limitations, it would logically have to represent a branchline. I wanted mostly steam power and didn't want my equipment to depict a bunch of rolling wrecks, as would have been the case after the war and into the 50's, so I set the era at 1941.

This date, location and tackage dictated a majority of small steam be employed, along with perhaps a smattering of small, very early diesels (4-4-0C, 2-6-0C, 2-6-2C, 2-8-0 steam, small B-truck diesels). Rolling stock could be repesented by a very wide range of cars dating anywhere from the earlier 1900's up to 1941.

Likewise, this was an era with a wide diversity of small, local industries served by rail, some in every small town, so I had great latitude in my choice of structures/industries to depict. Plus, I have always wanted to create at least one large, urban scene on part of a layout. 

All this being true, the design of the layout...as well as the motivepower roster...virtually created itself!

CNJ831

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 2:57 AM

steinjr
  I guess that the short (Big Smile) way of asking the question John asked would have been : "I have been thinking about how we decide which locomotives to use on our layouts. How did you decide which engines the railroad or railroads on your layout would have?".

 

 

Sure, but where be the fun in that? Plus you'd miss out on all those great photos-- c'mon, tell me you didn't think that Steampunk Locomotive was a riot !?!? Laugh

Plus I also wanted to illustrate a number of railroad scenarios for people to consider-- I especially liked the bit about the F "B" unit doing the switching along the Clinchfield RR. I saw that in a book about the Clinchfield and was thinking "No way! That's just too cool for school!" What a way to employ a loose "B" unit floating around, eh? We probably all have one stashed in a box someplace. And on the real thing-- all they needed to do was push some cars around a little, line 'em up to go through the tipple, move 'em out onto the holding tracks, that kind of thing.

 

steinjr

 Why switchers and road switchers? Well - that's the type of locomotives that would have been used to switch industries in an urban area, or for making a transfer move - taking some cars from one railroad's yard to another railroad in the same urban area.

 I then just picked engines by what was available at a reasonable price as RTR engines, what I liked the look of, and what either existed in the roster of the railroads I model, or at least existed at the time I model.

 

 

So it sounds like your roster is kind of a combination between "statistics" and serendipity. Nothing wrong with that.

 

steinjr
 But I wanted one, so I got one - if I get set upon by a nitpicker, I can always claim it was kept on for odd jobs around the yard. Or I can refer to "the golden rule" - he who pays the gold gets to decide what tune gets played ;-)

 

Or you could always just say the boys kept it around so they could wire it up to the coffee pot in the car shop...

 

steinjr
 Yeah - I cheated by not actually trying to develop a credible sizeable roster for one railroad :-)

 

S'okay, we'll let ya slide... Big Smile

 

Thanks for the expanded info! Was interesting.

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Sorumsand, Norway
  • 3,417 posts
Posted by steinjr on Saturday, April 3, 2010 2:28 AM

  I guess that the short (Big Smile) way of asking the question John asked would have been : "I have been thinking about how we decide which locomotives to use on our layouts. How did you decide which engines the railroad or railroads on your layout would have?".

 Me, I decided on a location (Minneapolis) and a theme (urban switching). I also decided I wanted 40-foot cars and early four axle diesel locomotives, so that helped me set my era - late 1950s. 

 I decided that since I liked several railroads, I would pick engines from several railroads (CMO, CNW, MSTL, GN, NP).

 Then I had a look at various websites (e.g http://www.thedieselshop.us and http://utahrails.net/rosters-index.php) with historical roster information, and looked at what diesel switchers and road switchers existed at the time I model.

 Why switchers and road switchers? Well - that's the type of locomotives that would have been used to switch industries in an urban area, or for making a transfer move - taking some cars from one railroad's yard to another railroad in the same urban area.

 I then just picked engines by what was available at a reasonable price as RTR engines, what I liked the look of, and what either existed in the roster of the railroads I model, or at least existed at the time I model.

 So I ended up with a bit of dog's breakfast when it comes to engines: two Alco RS3s, one Alco S1, an EMD GP7, an FM H16-44 and a couple of GE switchers (a 44-tonner and a 70-tonner).

 The 44-tonner and 70-tonners are pure industry/yard switching engines.

 Actually - the 44-tonner is probably too light for a class 1 in the late 50s - by that time it would most likely have been sold off to some industry - a mill or some such thing.

 But I wanted one, so I got one - if I get set upon by a nitpicker, I can always claim it was kept on for odd jobs around the yard. Or I can refer to "the golden rule" - he who pays the gold gets to decide what tune gets played ;-)

 The S1 is also a switcher - could be used as a road engine in a pinch, but couldn't move very fast.

 The GP7, H16-44 and the two RS3s are road switchers

 But the lack of a common family appearance doesn't much matter on my layout, since I postulate that these engines come from several different railroads, and only one or two engines are likely to be on the layout at the same time anyways.

 Yeah - I cheated by not actually trying to develop a credible sizeable roster for one railroad :-)

 Grin,
 Stein

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:48 AM

markpierce

The Southern Pacific Railroad was large enough it could cluster its minority-builder locomotives (Baldwin, Alco, Fairbanks-Morse, etc.) to particular locations so as to ease the maintenance burdens (parts and expertise).  Same with the last years of steam locomotives from all sources.

Mark

 

 

Again illustrating the prudence of standardization and the rewards it reaps in lowered overhead costs and maintenance issues.

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:45 AM

twhite

John:  

Another thoughful topic. 

 

 

Thank you Tom for saying so!  Smile

 

 

twhite

The locomotive roster is based on the wheel arrangements that would normally be seen in a mountain setting with relatively heavy grades.  I don't have too many locomotives of smaller wheel arrangements (2-8-0, 4-6-0), except for use on light freight or local passenger.  Probably my lightest multiple locos are of 2-8-2 wheel arrangment, with the majority of them running from 4-8-2, 4-8-4, 2-10-2 through various wheel arrangements of either compound Mallets or simple articulateds (2-6-6-2, 2-8-8-2, 2-8-8-4, 4-6-6-4 and 4-8-8-2).  

In other words, my roster has been developed to represent the kind of steam that would ordinarily be seen on a relatively busy mountainous trans-Sierra mainline.  

 

So are you saying that you selected your locomotives because you have knowledge that a N-N-N-N type locomotive is better with respect to this or that type of terrain and gradient, or are you selecting your locomotives "by the numbers" based on typical practice by similar railroads? Or maybe some of both?

What I'm wondering is if there are any considerations you're applying other than just statistics?


John

 

BTW-- you have a great layout, I've seen your pictures!  Smile

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:40 AM

wm3798
One of the things that attracted me to the Western Maryland is the fact that it had a roster that you could really get your head around.  It was a railroad with two distinct personalities:  A winding mountainous Appalachian coal hauler, as well as a fleet footed bridge route, competing for high value freight based on coordinated connections to the east and west.

 

wm3798
Another factor that was a pleasant surprise, was the availability of many of the key models in N scale.  Previously I was trying to model Conrail in the late 70's, which I thought would be easy due to the rainbow of paintouts, and the vast and varied fleet it inherited from its bankrupt predecessors...  A lot could be found, to be sure, but several signature locomotives were missing, and in some cases, still are.

 

 

Lee, that is very good advice, and you hit the nail on the head with respect to the issues that confront the modeler trying to develop his roster-- on the one hand, assuming you're modeling a known prototype, you have the list of locomotives the railroad did actually roster-- and then on the other, you have the issue of trying to figure out how to best acquire and represent the locomotives you need from the various model railroad manufacturers.

And I'd like to point out right here at this juncture that there have been numerous threads on this site about which locomotives people would like to see made available by the manufacturers, along with a near-universal consensus that it should be "small to mid-sized steam" !!! And, fwiw, I'm sure there are additional diesels needed too.

I am quite surprised, in fact, that with the apparent clamor and demand for small / mid-sized steam, that the manufacturers aren't falling all over themselves to produce it. Bachmann is certainly enjoying ongoing multiple runs of its lineup of smaller steam.

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:36 AM

The Southern Pacific Railroad was large enough it could cluster its minority-builder locomotives (Baldwin, Alco, Fairbanks-Morse, etc.) to particular locations so as to ease the maintenance burdens (parts and expertise).  Same with the last years of steam locomotives from all sources.

Mark

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:32 AM

Paul3
The best way to develop a locomotive roster is to get ahold of a real locomotive roster of a railroad that roughly matches what you want to model.

 

 

Paul, you offer a sound approach for the modeler. Doesn't matter why the prototype did what it did, just count 'em up and go with the numbers-- nothing wrong with that, and at the end of the day, for many modelers, that may just be the best overall strategy-- or at least up there with "buy what you want, its your railroad!" Laugh

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:29 AM

BRAKIE
First I enjoy these 'Philosophy Friday' topics.

 

 

You and me both. I really learn a lot from you guys about all kinds of stuff-- and its fun listening and talking to you too. If there's one thing for certain that I've learned to expect from the great group of folks here, its diversity of opinion. And I both enjoy and respect that. Thank you for the kind words!

 

BRAKIE

Why EMD?

The upper management wanted to streamline the maintenance shops and keep parts from one locomotive manufacturer instead of several..This saved money in maintenance stores operation.

 

Sounds good.... saving money is always good. Why EMD though? Is that just a personal preference or is there some additional reasoning there?

Secondly, *why* the particular locomotives you selected? 4-wheel short wheelbase switchers; mid-size mid-power road engines; and the rest? What kind of terrain does your railroad traverse? How healthy is its coffers? Did either of those elements play a factor?

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:24 AM

UP 4-12-2
I should note that my motive power roster keeps changing as my interests and current financial state change.  My old roster posts are now outdated, and I'll have other engines soon that were pre-ordered, so my roster remains rather "fluid".

 

 So are you saying you just run what you like?

 

UP 4-12-2
and likely the Spectrum K-4 (it's a great value and good to run for grabby guests especially children).

 

Ahhh! There is a really good example of a practical real-world consideration that exists only in the model realm. I doubt that the prototype needed to worry much about that!  LOL Laugh

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:21 AM

IRONROOSTER
In general, I am following the Ma&Pa of 1953, but I don't let it get in the way of buying engines (and rolling stock) that appeal to me. 

 

 

That seems sensible.

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:21 AM

 

tomikawaTT
the birds managing the property (Cheep! Cheep! Cheep!!!) acquired small tank locos on the second-(third, fourth, fifth)-hand market and ran them until they died. [...] The obvious question about 3 is, Why not just use the more powerful JNR locos? - answered by the supertight curves on the TTT. 
 

 

Chuck, thank you! That was an excellent answer and gives great insight as to *why* the railroad you model picked the locomotives it did. That is the type of information that is difficult to discern by non-engineers from dry readings of locomotive specifications. Even with substantive knowledge of the other factors, such as health of the railroad, locale and terrain, etc., its still not always easy to figure out what would make a good selection with respect to picking the specific model locomotives to grace your layout.

What else have you done, if anything, to improve or enhance the "fit and feel", or to otherwise "integrate" your locomotive selections into your railroad's "family" of locomotives?

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:11 AM

ns3010
In Connectuct, there's a short branch, so we need a road switcher for that.

 

 

Joe, it sounds like you have a well-thought out idea of your railroad's locomotive roster.... but *why* do you need a "road switcher", and each of the other selections? What thought process(es) did you go through to make those specific determinations?  I'm not taking issue with any of your choices-- in any case, its your railroad after all-- but I would like to know what considerations you / your railroad found relevant and thus led to those particular selections...???

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Carmichael, CA
  • 8,055 posts
Posted by twhite on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:11 AM

John:  

Another thoughful topic. 

In my case, I had begun collecting steam locomotives for my favorite two railroads--Rio Grande and Southern Pacific--even before I had the space to build a model railroad.  However, I knew several things--my MR would be laid in the Northern California Sierra Nevada mountains, and it would entail grades of up to 2.4% and wide enough curves to accommodate BIG steam.  The setting would be WWII, steam's finest hour. 

Luckily, when I bought my house, it came with a 2-car garage ("california basement") and in my area, NOBODY uses a garage to park their cars, so I was able to start building my empire with both the grades and the track radii that would accomodate both big articulateds and big long-wheel-based steam.  

Now in my particular case, about the only prototypes I could really get for Rio Grande and Southern Pacific were brass locomotives, but I hit every 'bargain' I could to obtain them (and reworked some of them considerably) in order to build a representative, smooth-running roster.  Granted, if I were modeling more 'popular' steam railroads, I could have gone plastic, and frankly, it wouldn't have bothered me at all.  In other words, my roster is about 95% brass by NECESSITY, not 'snob' value.  But, I am a 'proto-lancer' (authentic motive power in a slightly 'fictional' setting--the Rio Grande of course, doesn't run through the Sierra Nevada, LOL!), so that's what I've had to do. 

The locomotive roster is based on the wheel arrangements that would normally be seen in a mountain setting with relatively heavy grades.  I don't have too many locomotives of smaller wheel arrangements (2-8-0, 4-6-0), except for use on light freight or local passenger.  Probably my lightest multiple locos are of 2-8-2 wheel arrangment, with the majority of them running from 4-8-2, 4-8-4, 2-10-2 through various wheel arrangements of either compound Mallets or simple articulateds (2-6-6-2, 2-8-8-2, 2-8-8-4, 4-6-6-4 and 4-8-8-2).  

In other words, my roster has been developed to represent the kind of steam that would ordinarily be seen on a relatively busy mountainous trans-Sierra mainline.  

Now, were I modeling a Sierra Nevada foothill branch-line, it would be entirely different.  My roster would be very heavy on 2-6-0, 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 motive power.  And Lord knows that SP had a HUGE roster of those handsome little devils. 

But anyway, that's how I developed my locomotive roster--by the terrain in which my model railroad is set.  I was born and raised in the Sierra Nevada--it's still my favorite playground.Tongue

Tom Smile   

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:02 AM

steinjr

jwhitten
What's a poor modeler to do...? 

 

Whatever you like - on your layout, you get to make the decisions Big Smile

 

 

That's good advice and thank you very much for the links. I'll update the original post.

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:01 AM

markpierce

John, why don't you write a book or something? Mischief

Mark

 

 

Hmmm... now there's a thought!  I'll bet it'd be a best-smeller !!

Tongue

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 1:00 AM

UP 4-12-2
All it ever did was make me unhappy and frustrated.


 

 Well, then most defnitely you were making the wrong selections!


A man went to the doctor and said "Doc, it only hurts when I do that!"

"Then don't do that", the doctor replied!  Laugh

 

 John

 

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Saturday, April 3, 2010 12:26 AM

 

shayfan84325
I'm not very scientific about it.  If I see a locomotive i like, I buy it and then I figure out how it fits into my layout and its story.
 

Yeah, I have to admit that's sorta been the way I've done it up until recently-- maybe starting about a year or so ago trying to think about it in more detail and make better selections.

Since I'm modeling three types of railroads, I think I'll be okay with the majority of what I've collected so far. Perhaps some that aren't best suited, but I don't mind keeping them to the side. Mostly if anything, my "problem" locos are simply too new to be deployed in the "late 1950's" timeframe that I've chosen.

But, that said, I have since had an opportunity to study some of my purchases more closely with respect, particularly, to the Pennsy. As the South Pennsylvania RR's major patron, with trackage rights along the mainline, there will be a decent amount of Pennsy-flavored traffic rolling through. My diesels will pass muster without much problem. But the locos are nearly all USRA-style and while the Pennsy had its share of those, most of its locos-- and more importantly, the "family look" its most noted for-- is the Belpaire firebox along with the high-mounted headlight just in front of the generator-- of course those beautiful Pennsy keystone smokebox cover plates were very nice too!

So, in my view, in order for my steam locos to be quickly "recognized" as Pennsy locos, I need to figure out a way to acquire models with Belpaire fireboxes and headlamps / generators (and a few other detail parts) either in the right place or else relocatable.

In contrast however, my Proto-Freelanced "South Pennsylvania Railroad", which in many ways is more Freelance than Prototype-based-- and I've heard the term "Proto-Lanced" which could be a good description-- never actually existed much beyond a graded right-of-way, some tunnels and bridge piers. So, at least theoretically, its roster is whatever I say it is, and I'll be right-- 'cause its my railroad and the prototype is mainly imaginary too. But, that said, if it is "heavily influenced" by the Pennsy, then I would expect for there to be a reasonable assortment of "Pre-owned", "Gently-loved" Pennsy gifts, cast-off's, on-lease, etc. locomotives acquired from or through the Pennsylvania Railroad. But on the other hand, the South Penn is *also* its own concern, albeit heavily invested in and influenced by the Pennsy, so there would have been times in its past where it made its own decision about locos to purchase.

 

All of this may seem like unnecessary hand-wringing. And I suppose for some people it is. Just buy what you want and run it, they would probably say. I though am interested in finding out what choices they (the South Penn) might have made-- what would have been conceivably plausible (I hate that term btw!) based on the various factors of their existence.

For my Montour RR initiative, I already have a pretty good guide to follow with respect to the actual, real choices it did make. Again I'll be "Protolancing" when I develop my version of the Montour, but in that case, it will be selections based more on the actual, real types of locomotives that the Montour really did use. I can still arbitrarily decide for it to operate "other" locos that I might find and pick up here and there, as long as they stay generally in the range of a locomotive that the Montour could have conceivably had or wanted. For that info I can check out the web site.

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: On the Banks of the Great Choptank
  • 2,916 posts
Posted by wm3798 on Saturday, April 3, 2010 12:15 AM

 One of the things that attracted me to the Western Maryland is the fact that it had a roster that you could really get your head around.  It was a railroad with two distinct personalities:  A winding mountainous Appalachian coal hauler, as well as a fleet footed bridge route, competing for high value freight based on coordinated connections to the east and west.

As such, it had a pretty diverse fleet, but not a terribly large one.  Outside of the ubiquitous F units and GP-9's, they stuck to small batches of specific locomotives that were matched to specific jobs.  This also was the practice during the days of steam.

Another factor that was a pleasant surprise, was the availability of many of the key models in N scale.  Previously I was trying to model Conrail in the late 70's, which I thought would be easy due to the rainbow of paintouts, and the vast and varied fleet it inherited from its bankrupt predecessors...  A lot could be found, to be sure, but several signature locomotives were missing, and in some cases, still are.

But the WM presented itself with GP-9's, FA-2's, GP-40's, RS-3's and even BL-2's early on... You had to paint and letter them, but the models were available.  I was still on the fence, though, when Atlas brought out their excellent SD-35 in 1999.  The first run was offered in Conrail blue, and WM red white and black...  Decisions decisions...  I ended up ordering the WM models, and I've never looked back.  I sold off all of the post 1973 stuff I had, and started accumulating a substantial Western Maryland fleet.  My prayers were finally answered when Intermountain announced their excellent F-7 in speed lettering.

So now, outside of a badly needed Alco S- series switcher, I have representatives of just about every class of WM diesel that existed in 1970.

Generally speaking, the first thing one should do is settle on a prototype road, or a prototype location that they fancy.  That helps narrow down the search when it comes to purchasing equipment and organizing it for fun operations.

Lee

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Martinez, CA
  • 5,440 posts
Posted by markpierce on Saturday, April 3, 2010 12:14 AM

tstage

From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum.  I'm going to move it there.

I've stopped worrying about what thread belongs to what particular subforum.  Anyway, since "we" aren't responsible for selecting prototype locomotive rosters and we aren't discussing how prototype railroads do it, how could this thread be construed as a prototype topic?

Mark

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Troy, AL
  • 724 posts
Posted by BamaCSX83 on Friday, April 2, 2010 11:23 PM

Since I'm modelling CSX within the last 10 years, I've been able to get ahold of several online resources that have CSX locomotive rosters.  I also correlate that information with pictures from the area I'm modelling (CSX Dothan Subdivision, between Montgomery and Dothan), along with getting out to the tracks and actually seeing what's providing motive power on the trains.  I also have to take into account that in the area that I'm modeling I've also got two shortline interchanges and a railcar repair facility to model.  But according to the research that I've done I can sufficiently model the shortlines with 4-axle GP's (that's what their loco rosters consist of) and the railcar facility doesn't appear to have an engine of its own.  From there I've been able to develop a roster. 

Of course the roster is going to be ever-evolving as CSX retires some engines, or brings other engines out of storage for duty, so I buy the engines that "fit" in my timeline and then rotate them out as I see fit, since that is how they seem to actually run the trains.  One day the locals are powered with EVO's, next day its a vernerable SD40-2 doing the job, so you can never really know with what I'm modelling.

  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Friday, April 2, 2010 10:50 PM

The best way to develop a locomotive roster is to get ahold of a real locomotive roster of a railroad that roughly matches what you want to model.

For myself, it's easy.  I model the New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad...all of it.  My layout is just between Boston and Providence, but I still buy the occasional NH electric loco (normally found no closer than 100 miles of Providence).  I collect all NH loco models.  Since I model the mainline, I can easily justify all of the non-electric locos appearing on my layout depending on the era I'm modeling (which some day will vary from steam to diesel).

When I started, I added up all the NH locos they had, and started doing percentage calculations for each engine type.  The largest fleets of diesels on the NH were the 65 S-1's, 60 DL-109's, 60 FL9's, 45 RS-3's, 30 GP9's, 30 FA-1's, 27 PA-1's, and 26 U25B's.  Oddly enough, these are the locos that I have multiple models of.  The more rare locos...I don't have too many of.  It's pretty easy when you pick one railroad to model.

Doing it from scatch for a "home road" layout is, IMHO, harder to construct.  Sure, you can get anything you want, but making it logical (if that's your goal) is much harder because you have to have considerable knowledge of what the real locos are for and how they were used.  Following a specific prototype roster is much, much easier.  Collecting that prototype roster is generally more expensive, but it can be rewarding.

Paul A. Cutler III

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Northern VA
  • 3,050 posts
Posted by jwhitten on Friday, April 2, 2010 10:30 PM

To the Moderators of this Forum

 

I would like to take a moment to thank you for your kindness and sensitivity.

It meant a lot to me.

 

Thank you very much.

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, April 2, 2010 10:03 PM

tstage

jwhitten
I'm not asking so much about literally purchasing the models as much as I am the philosophical and technical considerations involved in making the selections with respect to a "real" railroad.

You asked for my opinion, John...From your above opening statement, this type of thread and discussion really belongs in (and is more appropriate for) the Prototype information to the modeler forum rather than the General Discussion forum.  I'm going to move it there.

Tom

Tom,Indeed it is a model related topic since it deals with developing a model roster in fact some of the hobby's leading operation gurus such as Tony Koester,Bill Darnaby and Eric Brooman has discuss this very topic in the pages of MR.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, April 2, 2010 9:55 PM

First I enjoy these 'Philosophy Friday' topics.

Here's how I developed my C&HV roster..First C&HV is owned by CDB Industries which owns a family of short lines..The roots of CDBI can be traced to the Cumberland,Dickensonville & Bristol Ry...When the CD&B dieselized it did so with 4 axle EMDs, 4 and 6 axle Alcos and FM yard switchers but,as the years went by it turned more and more to EMD..Today CDBI's family of short lines is 100% 4 axle EMD Geeps.

Why EMD?

The upper management wanted to streamline the maintenance shops and keep parts from one locomotive manufacturer instead of several..This saved money in maintenance stores operation.

Also CDBI replaced old worn locomotives such as GP7/9,GP18/20s with with new GP38-2s,GP40-2s and GP50s.CDBI also leases 4 axle EMD locomotives by "power by the hour" lease agreement..CDBI maintains a small fleet of SW1000 and SW1500 swtchers.

CDBI has plans on leasing several SD40-2s for CD&B,KC and C&LE unit train operations.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 699 posts
Posted by UP 4-12-2 on Friday, April 2, 2010 9:03 PM

I should note that my motive power roster keeps changing as my interests and current financial state change.  My old roster posts are now outdated, and I'll have other engines soon that were pre-ordered, so my roster remains rather "fluid".

An MTH 4-6-6-4 will stay, as will a Bowser/Stewart Alco C-628, and likely the Spectrum K-4 (it's a great value and good to run for grabby guests especially children).

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, April 2, 2010 8:07 PM

 I buy any S scale locomotive the Ma&Pa had in 1953.  Out of 4 diesels, 6 steam engines, and 2 gas electrics, I have the 4 diesels (SW1, 2 NW2's, SW9) and 2 2-8-0 steam engines.  I also have the 2-8-0 engine scrapped in 1952.  I also buy engines that appeal to me, so I have a B&O 2-8-0 steam engine, PRR GG1, PRR SW1 diesel, C&O SW9 diesel, and a generic 2-6-0.

In general, I am following the Ma&Pa of 1953, but I don't let it get in the way of buying engines (and rolling stock) that appeal to me. 

Enjoy

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, April 2, 2010 7:43 PM

One layout, three different philosophies at work.

  1. The national monopoly prototype - Locomotives (and DMU/EMU) that were actually seen in service during the target month.  I bend only to the extent that I accept the numbers of units that were pre-numbered by the manufacturers - changing them would involve a bit more than simply applying decals.  The only exception, seldom run, is a diesel-hydraulic that's a couple of years early (prototype built in 1967.)
  2. The 'former management of the coal company' model.  Since the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo served a couple of subsistence-level coal mines and was owned by the company that also owned the mines, the birds managing the property (Cheep! Cheep! Cheep!!!) acquired small tank locos on the second-(third, fourth, fifth)-hand market and ran them until they died.  Some proved remarkably difficult to kill, so there are a couple of real antiques on the roster.  There are also a number of more modern loco carcasses moldering in the weeds behind the Tomikawa engine house.
  3. The "new blood at the coal company' model.  Serviceable engines pulled out from under 'too far gone for help' boilers, combined with serviceable boilers from 'retired before their time' National Railways locos, resulting in wheel arrangements never seen in Japan.  Newly in service, a 2-6-6-2T (in a country that never had an X-6-6-anything in steam.)  On the drawing board - a Garratt and a Golwe.  The change in thinking was heavily influenced by developing the best coal seam into a real producer with the introduction of modern methods and machinery - lots more coal to move, and triple-headed 0-6-0Ts aren't the tractive effort equivalent of a twelve-drivered articulated.

 

The obvious question about 3 is, Why not just use the more powerful JNR locos? - answered by the supertight curves on the TTT.  The railroad is embargoed to all but one class of JNR loco (C12 class 2-6-2T,) all modern (20 meter length) passenger cars and all long freight cars.

So, do I actually own all the locos I seem to have.  Yup!  Of course, I've been accumulating them by ones and twos for forty-five years now.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - my way)

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: North Jersey
  • 1,781 posts
Posted by ns3010 on Friday, April 2, 2010 6:28 PM

I model one line of a multi-line system. There are other modelers who do this, but I think of the entire railroad. So that makes it harder. I don't just have to think about what I'm modeling, but the entire railroad.

Modern shortline, several lines in CT, NY, and NJ, several locals, two daily intermodals.

Let's start with what I'm modeling. There's a local, the main shops for the system, and a (rather short) daily intermodal. Ok, so that's one road switcher for the local, a switcher for the shops, and two road switchers for the intermodal.

Now let's look at the rest of the system. There's an intermodal line between a CSX yard and a large port in New York. Okay, four SD40-2s for that. On second thought, add in a fifth, so there's a replacement. And just to mix it up, make two of them SD40-2Ws, and we can justify that by saying they're for safety.
In Connectuct, there's a short branch, so we need a road switcher for that. There's also a branch in NJ, so another switcher there.
Can't forget about MOW, so a few geeps for that.

Since it's a modern railroad, we'll say the three states each funded the purchase of a genset.

So in CT, we have one genset running the branch there.
In NY, there's the four SDs (5 with the extra) and a genset for the intermodal service.
In NJ, there's two GP40-2s for the intermodal, a genset for one local, a switcher for the other local, and a switcher for the shops.
There's also three GP9ms for MOW.

The railroad started out with the three GP9ms for two branch lines.
Four GP50s were purchased for the NY intermodal service.
Two GP40-2s were purchased for service increases.
Three SW1500s were purchased, one for parts, and two rebuilt.
Three gensets purchased for service increases.
Five SD40-2s purchased to replace GP50s (fate of GP50s currently unknown)
[Over time, the GP9ms were replaced and were used exclusively in MOW service).

So there's 19 locos (4 stored, only 15 active) for a railroad that operates two intermodal trains, and three locals, as well as a shop switcher and MOW.

IMO, that's a pretty decent roster. And the good news is there's only 4 locos that actuall need to be modeled, although NJT and NS come into play, but that's completely different.

My Model Railroad: Tri State Rail
My Photos on Flickr: Flickr
My Videos on Youtube: Youtube
My Photos on RRPA: RR Picture Archives

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Friday, April 2, 2010 6:18 PM

Pick a prototype.  Pick an era.  Pick an area. 

Get a list of the engines they used in your chosen area in your chosen era.

Try to find those engines.

I model the W&N in 1900-1905.  Wisswesser's "Locomotives of the Reading and Philadelphia & Reading" has an alltime roster which includes all of the W&N engines.  There are a half dozen pictures of the engines in the book, plus lots of other pictures of similar engines.  The NP F-1 2-8-0 is the same locomotive as 2 W&N engines.  There is a drawing of a W&N 4-4-0 in Kalmbach Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia and Gem made a P&R I-5 2-8-0, Mantua makes something close to a B-8 0-6-0.

Run trains.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!