The term "better" is a relative term. We all take it generically to mean "improved in some undefined or defined way". If you tell me that something could be better about my modelling, and I don't understand, or do and still reject the notion, then it is not better...just different.
Unless I change my perception and understanding of my modelling, and then agree with you that I could make it better as you define it, it won't change. As soon as I accept your premis(es), and can "see" how my modelling could change for the better, that becomes my new ideal. Even then, I may or may not choose to effect the change(s). Other factors may preclude doing anything at all, but I'll still see that it could be "better".
And David is correct...each one of us, by written words and projections [images posted and other suspected or imagined characteristics] gives an impression to people looking on. For some of us, that changes over time. It depends on the values the onlookers place in the changes. It may not be a "positive" change.
To finish, each of us is looking for some form of affirmation or acceptance here...maybe even just acknowledgement. There don't have to be hearty high-fives, but just a respectful inclusiveness and a willingness to discuss and exchange ideas without so much overt judgement...terms that demean or put down either the poster or his way of enjoying the hobby.
-Crandell
Sheldon. .... Thanks for starting the thread. I can relate to your first post.
I have been in the hobby for a lifetime, and much of mt modleing has evolved with it.
I started building my current layout when we moved to this location in 2001. I have had so many prior layouts I lost count of the. The plan is a double track mainline with a loop and a terminal at each end. The loops are intended to allow continuous running or simply turn a train's direction. There are numerous industries along the mainline, and there are some branch lines.
I do not like looking at just boards and tracks, and so I am building one section at a time with scenery.
Now, I am ficussing on CB&Q in 1950's and 1960's, but have equipment from many railroads.
My oldest locomotvie is a Tenshodo NYC 4-6-4 which I have owned continuously for about 55 Years. I rebuilt it in recent years, and it runs and looks fine.
I have cars and locomotives from lots of HO manufacturers including many that have long been out of business. They are made from all sorts materials ........ wood, metal, plastic, etc.
I like the fine details on today's R-T-R imports. However, I would prefer to see more models made in teh USA.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
tomikawaTTThe present level of popular eyeball-filler takes an hour to tell 20 minutes worth of story, with six interludes during which folks try to sell a dozen products and services totally unrelated to the drama they interrupt.
Ah, but the products are related to the program. That's how I entertain myself if nothing needs to be fetched from the fridge or deposited back in the bathroom after a brief warm-up cycle. These interruptions provide a puzzle. It's up to you to figure out the target demographic of the program by watching the commercials. Ads for laundry detergent and wrinkle cream indicate a middle-aged female audience, while gory movie trailers and gaming systems are looking for young males.
So, next time you're asking yourself, "Why am I watching this trash?" ignore the show and study the commercials. You'll probably discover that they don't care about you at all. Are there any Walthers ads? How about Woodland Scenics roadbed ads?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
blownout cylinderOr maybe we need to distinguish between the contest version of improving one's skills wherein one fights it out in an all out existential battle with someone who does something better than oneself and one that concentrates on 'why does 'X' not work here---and figuring it out for oneself" I know some work better with the first but ----
Or maybe we need to distinguish between the contest version of improving one's skills wherein one fights it out in an all out existential battle with someone who does something better than oneself and one that concentrates on 'why does 'X' not work here---and figuring it out for oneself" I know some work better with the first but ----
Capital idea there mate! Maybe we could call the first type MODEL Railroading and the second type Model RAILROADING...
Whaddaya think?
John
Driline You could call it a crayon for "SNOBS" if you like A bit more expensive don't you know....
You could call it a crayon for "SNOBS" if you like
A bit more expensive don't you know....
Some that my wife gets come from some French company----at $5.65 a pop for a 3" stick
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
jwhitten Capital idea there mate! Maybe we could call the first type MODEL Railroading and the second type Model RAILROADING... Whaddaya think?
I tend to the modelling side myself but I don't have the existential angst thing going --- there must be a taxonomy for that but I'm not sure where that goes
Well, well, 5 pages from people that really like to fool around with model railroads and have fun, what kind of concept is that? some not interested in DC-3, locomotives that say choo-choo, having 4,000 cars, some in boxes, and not collecting 450 brass locomotives. I must commend many on this post to admitting to a cavalier attitude toward model railroading, imagine enjoying yourself taking home a plastic cattle car from a train show you bought for $1.50, how about just going downstairs and just watching your nondescript railway going around in circles, great ! ! I have had my faith renewed, reading all the good messages, good on all you guys, hooray for our side. have fun
Sheldon,I have 1 GP9 and 6 FA/FB's from P2K. They all had cracked gears. At my club, there are many, many more that have needed to be replaced. Any P2K with the Athearn clone drive is suspect. The P2K PA-1's & P1K DL109's that I own have never had the cracked gear problem due to their non-Athearn drive components (and not that it's an Athearn problem...P2K cloned it wrong). My Athearn-clone P2K's run, but they don't run great, not like Atlas and Kato. The PA's and DL's run great, but the GP's, et al, are merely okay...when they aren't broken.
Spectrum steam is still somewhat of a grab bag for quality. Look at their Shays. This was a great running model, but NWSL has released a re-gearing kit for it because drive failures are apparently common. I have a USRA light Mountain that actually had a pick up shoe on a driver get caught up in the spokes all by itself, which then broke off. Now, the loco runs down the track like a drunken sailor, "hunting" from side to side. At my club, many Spectrum steam engines have been returned...one was even returned twice. Spectrum has great customer service, but then they've had a lot of practice.
If you criticize someone for complaining, essentially you're telling them to stop their complaining. It may not be what you're intending to say, but that's how it comes out. If you want to debate a point, that's one thing. But to make the point that you are "amazed" (and not in a good way) by people leveling criticism is the same as saying that they shouldn't be doing so in the first place.
That's nice that you didn't pay full retail prices for your collection, but that still doesn't help your argument. The retail prices for Atlas, Kato, P2K, and Spectrum are all about the same, not 40% more. That's a fact. Atlas and Kato can deliver high quality drives for that price range, and Atlas can deliver not only a consistantly great drive but with great detailing, too. Why can't P2K or Spectrum?
It's obvious you don't see these problems that people have as something that concerns you. And to tell the truth, they aren't really problems for me, either. But then, not everyone has 20 years (me) or 40 years (you) of model railroading experience to conquer these kinds of problems. MR, as a general rule, tends to get more beginners than other mags, and this website is no different. There are far, far more "less than expert" railroad modelers here than on any other webforum I've ever seen, and we should try to keep that in mind. Heck, there are a lot of teenagers here, too, that don't have the decades of modeling experience that would allow them to figure out answers to problems that we have solved a dozen times or more.
With Atlas track switches, it's not just the frogs. The electrical connections aren't exactly 100% reliable, and on the Code 83's, the points can need some work with a file and some pliers to get them to be "right". I have many of them, and some are great out of the box but others are basketcases.
As for the long diverging route of any switch...it's easier to cut something off than to add something on. I'd rather do a little trimming on a switch than have to add a bunch of 1" pieces of rail to a yard ladder like on some old Code 100 Atlas switches I used to have.
About the CV kits, again, if I had a million bucks and unlimited time, they wouldn't bother me if they were more delicate. I'd have time to fix them.
Personally, if I'm building a switch, I prefer to use the Fast Track jigs. I wouldn't use Atlas parts on a bet.
As for judging, who said anything about judging? I just said that we should strive to be better and to resist the urge to rest on our laurels.
It's like this: we have folks here who aren't that skilled and they never get any better. But instead of admitting they aren't that good and they can't get better due to a lack of skill, ability, cash, or time to learn, they turn around and blame "rivet counters" for "ruining the hobby". When confronted, they wave the "It's my railroad and I can do what I want!" banner. Sigh. Yes, it's their railroad (and hobby), and they can do whatever they want. But let's not pretend that the flat sheet of plywood with green sawdust sprinkled on it with snap track without roadbed nailed to it is the zenith of model railroading skill and should be good enough for everyone...that even rivet counters should be happy with something like that. They need to realize that some people enjoy being detail specific, and that rivet counters are not "evil".
CP5415,The only one on this forum that has whipped out the "you're not a model railroader" line has been "CNJ" John B., and even he's toned it down a tad. Instead, we have far more people complaining about rivet counters than you have rivet counters complaining about "good enoughers".
Telling newbies what is and isn't "crap" is great for this hobby, IMHO. I wish someone would have told me about things when I was new. I could have avoided a lot of decisions that became painful in time, or wasted money immediately.
And pray tell, what "young child" is going to play with HO trains in the first place? That's what Brio, American Flyer, Lionel, or LGB is for.
You gave a 4 year old an IHC 0-8-0? Um, was that wise? Small parts, choking hazards, etc.?
Buying robust but cheaper locos are fine for most any newbie, but after learning the basics, isn't it time to take the training wheels off?
BTW, that brings me to another point...what about these low-cost engines and the possible damage to a newbie's interest in HO scale? My neighbor, an A-F fan for many years, tried to get into HO scale back in the 1980's. He bought Tyco, Bachmann and Life-Like locos, and was so disappointed in their lack of running quality that he went back to American Flyer. If he had bought some Atlas locos, he might have stayed in HO scale.
Rivet counters are some of the more helpful people I know. They will tell you what's wrong with just about anything. And if you ask them nicely, they may even have some ideas on how to fix it. But just like with any group of people, there are those who are jerks. They can't be avoided on initial contact, but they can be safely ignored if need be. Many, many more, however, will be helpful if given the chance.
Brakie,While I have the desire to be "museum quality", I don't have the skills (yet). I'm a long, long way off. But don't forget, I'm an Operator 1st and foremost. My trains must run or they are gone. I'm the Operations Chairman of my club, and in fact, later today (Thursday) I have a session ready to go. Two hours, 30+ trains, 12 to 24 members, and 6 local freights on a 6:1 Fast Clock with 2 dispatchers. And it's even "All Steam" night, too.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
I have a feeling that this thread is heading into the nirvanas of model railroading.
One of the nice things about our mutual hobby is, that it has so many different aspects to it - more than any other pastime I have encountered in my life. There is room for just about any way - and it is left up to your own personal decision which way you want to go - in terms of scale, theme, era, brands, scenery, type of control - you name it!. I wish we had that many choices in our real life!
I should not forget to address one more issue - it is about respect. Maybe we should pay a little more respect to what other people do. Sometimes, I sense a certain lack of respect in threads like this one -
How about moving on to some real issues now?
I agree, it has pretty much all been said....again!
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