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Show Us Your Weathered Models II ...Critique & Criticism Welcome

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Posted by AggroJones on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:28 PM

Driline

AggroJones

Drilline if you want my critique on the BN I can do so.



What I would really like from you is for you to offer ONE and only ONE piece of information on how you weathered your car everytime you post a picture. That way maybe some of us can use it to make ours a bit better.

Critique if you want, like the post says...but I know SOME of the problems, I just don't know how to fixum. Like I'm not happy with the brush strokes present on the white B. Maybe I should not have used a brush with the India Ink and perhaps used a makeup sponge instead? Don't really know.....

 
Mkay I can do that. Use a camel hair soft brush when doing a wash. Less brush strokes.

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Posted by duckdogger on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:42 PM

 There's that mysterious term again, "gouache".  What, where, when, and how?  Where does Dullcote come into play?

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Posted by spidge on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:07 PM

duckdogger

 There's that mysterious term again, "gouache".  What, where, when, and how?  Where does Dullcote come into play?

Supposedly thinner than oils but has a quality that is laking in the oils. Not cheap, At Micheals they were twice as expensive as oils, but hey how much do you need?

I have yet to get some as I am still experimenting a bit. Maybe if I new what effect they would render I may rush down and get some. Aggro?

 

John

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Posted by Driline on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 7:04 AM

AggroJones
Gouache washes are magical.

 

All I've ever done with gouache is to dab it on and dump powder over it. Are you saying you can thin it (with water?) and brush it down as a wash?

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Posted by TMarsh on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:41 AM

elogger
sometimes i find it helpful to wear latex gloves when weathering...

I did when I was preping and painting. It was later as I was critiqueing myself that I yutzed it up.Banged Head

Like you said it will be only one of many lessons. I'll probably be concentrating on some new technque to me and forget some basic things, (like don't get acrylics wet Dunce, don't touch unfinished model with bare hands, etc.). That's what I usually do. And I'll do it again.Laugh 

 

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I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk. Laugh

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Posted by ProtoWeathering on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:46 AM

 "Google" gouache.

Driline

AggroJones
Gouache washes are magical.

 

All I've ever done with gouache is to dab it on and dump powder over it. Are you saying you can thin it (with water?) and brush it down as a wash?



Not to be confused with an Oil, Gouache is a fine water color which uses gum arabic as a binder, unlike acrylic water colors such as found at Wall*Mart. Acrylic paint is no more opaque than any other medium. Its opacity depends on the pigment and the pigment concentration. The same is true for high quality gouache (which does not use opacifiers). The differences between acrylic and gouache are due to the binder/medium. Acrylic uses an acrylic polymer emulsion, and gouache uses gum arabic. Acrylic has a tendency to have a glossy or satin finish, whereas gouache is matte. Acrylic gouache is essentially acrylic paint which contains an additive giving it a matte finish similar to gouache. It still has sort of a plastic look, however, and it is somewhat water resistant when dry, unlike true gouache. This is an advantage for layering/glazing but not as convenient for blending.

 So being a water color, water or windshield washing fluid makes an excellent thinner. (Windshield washing fluid because of the surfactant and a small amount of alcohol.)

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Posted by Driline on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:50 AM

Neutrino
So being a water color, water or windshield washing fluid makes an excellent thinner. (Windshield washing fluid because of the surfactant and a small amount of alcohol.)

 

So windshield fluid over water as a thinner?

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Posted by ProtoWeathering on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:35 AM

Driline

Neutrino
So being a water color, water or windshield washing fluid makes an excellent thinner. (Windshield washing fluid because of the surfactant and a small amount of alcohol.)

 

So windshield fluid over water as a thinner?

Try both and see how they work for you.

I would tell you to stop dumping your powders too, but I sell them so if you want to waste them that's your business. With powders though, less is more.

Sophisticated Finishes has it's place when thinned and applied correctly and to the right surface. Your roof's rust looks too large to represent scale rust. (An oxymoron!) I thin mine with distilled water and apply it in small batches and thin layers. I see no reason to use it on a freight car truck in interchange, it's just too scaly and unrealistic. Now if the car's sitting in the weeds, that's another story.

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Posted by Driline on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:47 AM

Neutrino
Your roof's rust looks too large to represent scale rust.

 

I totally agree.

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Posted by duckdogger on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:50 AM

 A lot of gouache back story but how is it used? As a wash?  Same process as an oil wash?  Does it require sealing with Dull-cote for preservation?  Can small amounts of chalk or weathering powders be applied while it is wet to provide texture and depth?

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Posted by Driline on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:10 AM

duckdogger
Can small amounts of chalk or weathering powders be applied while it is wet to provide texture and depth?

 

Thats how I used it on the boxcar you see above...

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Posted by ProtoWeathering on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:01 PM

duckdogger

 A lot of gouache back story but how is it used? As a wash?  Same process as an oil wash?  Does it require sealing with Dull-cote for preservation?  Can small amounts of chalk or weathering powders be applied while it is wet to provide texture and depth?

 

Gouache is relatively opaque and with the rich colors of the powder and gouache, they tend to just coat and leave little depth. Oil paints work much better IMO when blended with powder, using Mineral Spirits as the thinner.

If I was on a budget and was looking to go to Michael's or an Art supply shop to purchase the most for my money I would pick up the smaller tubes of Windsor and Newton Artist Oils and pass on the Gouache. One learning curve at a time is always cheaper than buying some of everything and not mastering something before trying another medium. Wal*Mart also sells gouache and artist oils in starter kits, they are relatively cheap and are fine for learning. Then just waltz over to the paint department and get a can of Odorless Mineral Spirits (Much cheaper than the little bottle they sell near the art supplies.) Pick yourself up a can of lacquer thinner too for clean-up, just make sure you take all the precautions when using some of these volatile liquids.

This was primarily done using just artist oils and weathering powders both blended and applied individually.

Is this stuff perfect? FAR from it. I still have much to learn.

 

 

 

 

This is one of the ways I use Sophisticated Finishes. This car represents a mill gon in captive service at a scrap dealer that hasn't been used for a while. The floor is a steel (nailable) deck, that's why the rust on what looks to be wood, but isn't. 

 

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Posted by Silver Pilot on Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:35 PM

An important tip is to wear latex gloves when working on your project car.  Once you've washed the carbody to remove any dirt and oils from handling it during assemble or from general use you need to avoid handling it with your bare hands.  This avoids leaving finger prints on the car from your skin''s natural oils or having your bare skin remove some of the washes/powders from the weathering process.  As a general rule I wear latex gloves when handling the car until I fnished the weathering process and sealed everything with Dullcote.

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Posted by AggroJones on Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:37 PM

duckdogger

 A lot of gouache back story but how is it used? As a wash?  Same process as an oil wash?  Does it require sealing with Dull-cote for preservation?  Can small amounts of chalk or weathering powders be applied while it is wet to provide texture and depth?

 
As a wash you can mix it with distilled water or Windex depending on what its going over. You can do the same with water mixable oils but the oil is more likely to mar the under layers of weathering so be careful. 
 
For rust spots/patches I mix gouache with chalks and water color so texture is inherrant.

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Posted by AggroJones on Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:41 PM

spidge

duckdogger

 There's that mysterious term again, "gouache".  What, where, when, and how?  Where does Dullcote come into play?

Supposedly thinner than oils but has a quality that is laking in the oils. Not cheap, At Micheals they were twice as expensive as oils, but hey how much do you need?

I have yet to get some as I am still experimenting a bit. Maybe if I new what effect they would render I may rush down and get some. Aggro?

 

 
Both oil and gouache have their places. I say get both. Use the 40% off coupon that comes in the Sunday paper for Micheals. Little gouache goes long way.
 
 
The rust here is assorted shades of proffessional watercolors + gouache + chalk thinned with distilled water. The roof is gouache + water mixable oils + chalk.

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Posted by AggroJones on Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:46 PM

 

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Posted by CSX_road_slug on Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:50 PM

OK, I'll bite...

I haven't done any freight car weathering in over a year, mainly because I've been trying to get more work done on my layout.  But here's one I'd like to share, I've gotten mostly positive reactions to it: A CSX [ex-Chessie] PS2 100-ton cement hopper.  (My apologies to you MTW guys who've already seen enough of this thing.)  I was lucky enough the find photos of both sides on rrpicturearchives.net, so I had those to guide me.

First a broad side view:

Click HERE to see the corresponding proto shot:

Next, a 3/4 angle view of the opposite side:

Click HERE for the matching proto photo:

...and a top-down shot:

 

What I did:

First I took an Athearn r-t-r PS2 covered hopper in B&O colors, rubbed off the factory lettering, and airbrushed it with a base coat of Polyscale UP Armour Yellow.  Then I sprayed on a thin coat of gloss and applied the Chessie decals.  After allowing a few days for everything to dry, I airbrushed a few layers of thinned Armour Yellow wash to make the Chessie lettering and logo appear faded.  This gave me a naturally dull surface to apply a dusting of Bragdon powders all around, it stuck to it quite nicely. 

For the rust streaks I brushed on water-mixable oil paints, with gouache for the deeper pitted rust spots.  I also used gouache for the base coat on the trucks and wheels, topped with some lighter-colored Bragdon powders.  The wheel splatter stains on the ends were the most troublesome part of this project: I had to redo them 4 times before I was satisfied with the way they looked.  It was always a case of my doing "just one more iddy-bitty touch-up" - then screwing it up so bad I wound up having to do it over.  I started out using Bragdon powder, then when I couldn't wipe off the screw-ups, I mixed some water-soluble oil paint (Yellow Ochra, I think?) that matched the Armour Yellow pretty closely, and blended in the splatter stains with Burned Umber and Black oil paints.  This is why it took me nearly 3 weeks to finish the thing.

 

 

-Ken in Maryland  (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)

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Posted by AggroJones on Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:42 PM

Driline

AggroJones

Drilline if you want my critique on the BN I can do so.

 

Aggro.....Question about the 3 foot rule. As you know some modelers say that if it looks great at 3' its good enough to display.

In your honest opinion would you be able to tell the difference between say, one of your prize models and my obomination at 3 feet or would mine stick out like a sore thumb???

 
 
IMHO is doesn't look terrible, but not very much like the photo. Do you dig it from 3' away?

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:23 PM

 This thread is now an inspiration!

Bow to the masters of weathering!

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Posted by ProtoWeathering on Friday, August 21, 2009 6:48 AM

CSX_road_slug

OK, I'll bite...

I haven't done any freight car weathering in over a year, mainly because I've been trying to get more work done on my layout.  But here's one I'd like to share, I've gotten mostly positive reactions to it: A CSX [ex-Chessie] PS2 100-ton cement hopper.  (My apologies to you MTW guys who've already seen enough of this thing.)  I was lucky enough the find photos of both sides on rrpicturearchives.net, so I had those to guide me.

...  This is why it took me nearly 3 weeks to finish the thing.

 

I like what you've done with this car. I wonder what became of the cut lever and air hoses? I'd have to unpack mine to see if they came with both, but if they did, I know that even looking at these cars, the stirrups fall off, so kudos to you for doing all this work on such a delicate model. I try not to handle these too much and with this much work it must have been fun! Three weeks is pretty fast for a car this nice.

I like the colors and tone of the weathering. The trucks look somewhat monotone, but everything else looks very nicely done.

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Posted by CSX_road_slug on Friday, August 21, 2009 7:57 AM

Neutrino

I like what you've done with this car. I wonder what became of the cut lever and air hoses? I'd have to unpack mine to see if they came with both, ....

I like the colors and tone of the weathering. The trucks look somewhat monotone, but everything else looks very nicely done.

 

Thank you Jerry for the feedback.  I don't remember seeing a separate bag of add-on detail parts with this car - but then again, it's not a Genesis model.  I could probably bend up some cut levers myself, I've done that with missing loco handrails a few times.  IIRC, I did have to re-cement at least one of the stirrups back on.

As for the trucks, a bit of extra Bragdon 'dirt' should correct that.  But I also suspect the less-than-perfect indoor photo lighting muted some of the color differences - I should have shot it in direct sunlight. [NOTE TO SELF: Get busy and build that portable diorama for outside photos!]

 

-Ken in Maryland  (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)

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Posted by AggroJones on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:34 AM

Heres one of my weathering run throughs. 

 

This is the before shots. 

 

 

 

 

 

 FIRST! We come in with a little light sanding with wet 1000 grit sand paper to some of the lettering. WET.


 

 

 

 

 Then we airbrush laquer thinned Floquil white over the lettering to further fade them.

 

 

We're gonna take a lil burnt umber gouche, and burnt sienna water mixable oil paint and cross them together. An 18/0 liner brush, that is used to the streaks and a little rust action happening. After that I sealed it with future floor wax. Thats about it for now.

 

 

 

M'kay after the floor wax was put on I used graffiti decals for some of the tags. Micro-sol treatment, yadda, yadda....lightly future over them to seal the edges.

 


Then I come in with a first grime wash, made of watercolor, chalk, and gouche. hit the cracks and general body. And work it vertically with a q-tip.

 


Next it was Testor's dullcoted, and dried a while. Then I came in added more graffiti, touched up the rust some. Then came a dusting of Bragdon Enterprises weathering powder. Some gray, little tan, little white.


A few airbrush touches and some under body dust kick up. There it goes. The end.  

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:53 AM

 It´s wonderful, it´s marvelous - it is absolutely fantastic!

Aggro, you make things sound so easy, but I know how much experience, a trained eye and patience it takes!

BowBowBow

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Posted by Hansel on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:09 AM

O.k. it seems that almost all of the cars pictured are from modern times.  What about the Transition Era?  Does anyone weather those?

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Posted by Loco on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:04 AM

 Just off the top of my head, and please realize I've never weathered a car yet, but would it not be the same as above, just no graffiti?

 In any case, what is the deal with the future floor wax?!?!?!  Can you elaborate on this a bit?  Is it a spray??   How is that applied.  Do I need my car buffer too??  Big Smile

LAte Loco
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Posted by duckdogger on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:10 PM

 Aggro, Slug, Neutrino - thanks for sharing your techniques.  Really liked the results.

Tried the gouache process on my wife's face last night after she was asleep.  I thought the effect of grime, dirt, and rust came out nice.  She was just so negative about the whole thing.

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Posted by GRAMRR on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:38 PM

Hansel - Here are some transition era cars that I've done using only chalk dust.

Clicking on the image should take you to my photobucket album and a larger photo. Feel free to browse the rest of the pics.  Most cars are twenty year + old Athearn blue box kits that I've finally gotten around to completing now that I've fully retired. Smile,Wink, & Grin 

Chuck

Grand River & Monongah Railroad and subsidiary Monongah Railway

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Posted by AggroJones on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:30 PM

Sir Madog

 It´s wonderful, it´s marvelous - it is absolutely fantastic!

Aggro, you make things sound so easy, but I know how much experience, a trained eye and patience it takes!

BowBowBow

P.S. We need to start a fan club!Smile,Wink, & Grin

 
Thanks!
 
 
 
Loco future floor wax is this crap from Walmart found in the cleaning product section. Its a clear acrylic used in place of lets say Polly S gloss. It makes a higher shine than *** near any model gloss products. Sprayed through the airbrush usually.

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Posted by DT&Ifan on Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:56 AM

Aggro,

 Thanks for posting on here, I thought I had lost your tutortials from the other site after not paying the ransom.  Glad to see this info is still avaliable for free. :)

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Posted by mikelhh on Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:45 AM

 Stunning work on here. No way I'm posting any of mine! I'm definitely inspired to try to improve though, so thankyou all.

 

Mike

Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0

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