Replacement Metal Wheelsets...What to use? Kadee, Proto 2000, Intermountain?

[Anonymous]

Interesting subject. I love Kadee cars and couplers. I hate Kadee wheels. I don't like them on Kadee cars, they are not free rolling but actually put a drag on the cars, and the fellow who gave the measurements may well have explained why. I'm with those who say InterMountains are the best, essentially becase they ARE the best. I have not had any problems with LLK's and I don't bother to change them out on my P2K cars, but I think it's silly not to get the best wheels if your cars are not rolling as they should. After all, it is about running trains, isn't it?

[mondotrains]

I'd like some clarification on your suggestion to put small drops of transmission fluid on the track. Could you be a little more specific like....do you put drops every 12 inches or so or more than that. Also, do you let your rolling stock spread it around or did you spread it with a rag? I'll try anything once, especially if it is not illegal, but could use a little more specifics. It sounds like you're saying the transmission fluid cleaned the track and improved electrical contact. How about the fluid attracting more dust...did it?

Thank you,
Mondo

QUOTE: Originally posted by JerryAshley

I use all three types on my railroad and the only ones that have caused me trouble is the Kadee....and then only in certain situations.....but I also have the Tony's Train Exchange Track Cleaner used with 90% Alcohol....but the other day several guys from Danville Ky were here looking at my monster....I run Digitrax Dcc....my engines were loping around the track if they would make it at all.....one of them laughed and said that they would let me in on a little secret if I did not tell the world....about clean track....they said to go to the garage and get some Automatic Transmission Fluid and put tiny drops on the track and that it would make my trains run better and the Sounttraxx modules would sound better....I laughed and asked what type Ford or GM....either one they said....so I did try it....lo and behold it worked....my trains run better than ever and the sounds are wonderful....I have not cleaned my track in over three months now and am still having great results....I have learned not to laugh at other folks suggestions for one thing....right now I have about 600 cars and all have metal wheel sets....also the Track Cleaning Car is sitting on a siding not being used.....

Jerry Ashley in Louisville, Ky

[Anonymous]

what about northwest wheels sets I hear they're very good also a'm also thinking about
replacing my wheels I'm using kadee's for now

[Anonymous]

For Rivarossi & IHC passenger cars, IHC makes a 31" replacement metal wheelset that, although not prototypical size, works great without removing any brake shoes or parts thereof. They're usually packaged in a plastic bag for about $32 for 36 wheelsets.

[Anonymous]

I believe any metal wheel is better than plastic one. Going to the expense and trouble to replace the stock plastic wheels with metal improves the performance of the rolling stock. I also like the sound. With that said I have noticed better rolling characteristics when the replacement wheels sets have a melt axle placed in a plastic side frame, Intermountain. Some of the old metal trucks now work better since I replaced the wheel sets with ones with plastic axles and metal wheels, Proto 2000. It seems that dissimilar metals have less friction.

I do have a problem with Intermountain trucks that come in their hopper kits. Some of them will not sit flat when assembled and the wheels in place. Three of the four wheels will touch the rail and forth may be off the rail be a hair to a fraction of an inch. Does anyone have a suggestion to cure this problem?

Thanks,

Larry Leavens, Winnipeg, MB

[Anonymous]

A slight fray in the thread, here, if I may: I've been using Kadee wheels for a good many years before there were other choices. The black coating wears off with enough mileage, and you have a shiny tread, just like prototype cars, and for the same reason.

Yes, I've also tried P2K, Intermountain, NW Shortline and a buncha others, including LBF's stock sintered metal. All of 'em are better than plastic, some are better than others. I can't honestly say there's enough difference to cleave to only one unto death.

BUT -- here's where I take a turn off this thread -- My rails have been a LOT cleaner since I STOPPED using Goo-Gone. This stuff left a continuing layer of goo (ironically enough) on the rails that attracted more dirt. I am now cleaning wheels and track with 91% denatured alcohol. No residue.

I know, this will start another war -- like Wahl Clipper Oil a decade or so ago.

Summary: Metal wheels, good, Plastic wheels, bad. Goo-gone, not my choice.

[Anonymous]

I have been useing a compination of Jay Bee, Proto 2000 and Kadee mertal wheels for the last 5 years. I also use Wahls clipper oil very sparingly on my lay out, I have approximately 150 feet of main line which I only clean vigerously once a year. We have a operating session for 4 hours once a month, I only use the Wahls once every couple of months. The layout has not failed me thus far we do use DCC I can run a clean white cloth down the rails for about 30 feet and come up with a light amount of dirt on the rails but not enough to interfear with operations. The trick is in the use of the Wahls, I place the oil on top of the rail for about 1 inch on each track and run a 15 car train through the oil and all over the layout. Thats all it takes. I live in a very dusty climate in Nevada, desert.

Les Ede

[Anonymous]

I've replaced all my plastic wheelsets with Proto 2000 metal ribbed back 33". Most of my freight stock is from Athearn kits, and the fit is perfect after reaming the side frames. I model 1920's era so ribbed back wheelsets are perfectly prototypical.

I have some MDC Roundhouse 34' Overton passenger cars, which came with Delrin trucks and wheels. On the advice of my hobby store buddy, I'm leaving them on until I either begin to see tread wear/track dirt, or I start to run them more ( a LOT more). The Delrin is reported to be much harder than the typical plastic wheelset, and rolls like ice in the trucks as purchased. My reamer is a bit tight in the sideframes on these, so I can only assume that MDC runs a little tighter to tolerance.

[Anonymous]

Mondo,
I have used a lot of LBF wheels in nearly all my rolling stock mainly because of cost. One of the members of the club to which I belong owns a hobby shop and cuts every member a very good discount and right now LBF has the best price, and when you have over 750 carscost is really a issue. I will say that I do use other brands also like Protos in all my McKean and Front Range cars and of course Atlas comes with their own. One problem that I have encountered with most wheels is that they need to be painted to dull their apearence. Nothing looks worse than a nice string of cars with those "chrome" wheels, so I have to take the time to weather the wheels. I like others have found that there is no perfect wheel set for every purpose. I have recently started to replace the wheel sets in my Athearn loco with Northwest Shortline 40" wheels and this has helped greatly.
As far a track cleaning, at our club we have found that by nearly all the members switching to metal wheels and changing the wheels in the Athearn locos that we do not have nearly the problrm with dirty track that we had. The building that we are in is over 100 years old and has no heat or a/c on the floor we are using which is the top floor of a 3 story. For heat in the winter we are using a propane space heater whick has cut down greatly on our winter dirt over when we used kerosene heaters. The summer we still have a dirt issue as the only way to cool the building down is to open the windows and doors. We have tried most ot the methods listed by the other folks who posted replys with little to no luck, but the ATF method sounds cool, As for our way to do it which for us has nearly solved our problems is to remove the cleaning pad from under a track cleaner and replace it with a piece of masonite and just drag it around once in a while. A nothe club told us this and they have gone a far to make a couple of track cleaners out of dummy locos which they run in their loco pool.
I know it is long but there is my answer, hope it helps

[Anonymous]

I've been using Kadee wheelsets - both 33" and 36" - with the coating buffed off for years on our local club RR. No problem on a coating of the rails and they stay cleaned than either plastic or metal wheelsets with the coating left on. I try very hard to avoid Chinese products, much preferring made in the US products like Kadee. I don't remember I-M's country of origin, but I know Proto's are from China. Use of a bearing reamer is sometimes needed to smooth things out but probably only 10-15% of the time. Our club also uses track cleaning cars - usually MDC 2-bay hoppers with a block of masonite underneath dragging rough side down. Minimal drag to the train and max clean.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimkantor

I've been using Kadee wheelsets - both 33" and 36" - with the coating buffed off for years on our local club RR. No problem on a coating of the rails and they stay cleaned than either plastic or metal wheelsets with the coating left on. I try very hard to avoid Chinese products, much preferring made in the US products like Kadee. I don't remember I-M's country of origin, but I know Proto's are from China. Use of a bearing reamer is sometimes needed to smooth things out but probably only 10-15% of the time. Our club also uses track cleaning cars - usually MDC 2-bay hoppers with a block of masonite underneath dragging rough side down. Minimal drag to the train and max clean.

Atlas is also from China[}:)], I believe IM is made here in the US since only their assembled cars are made in China, and they would have to put on the Kadee couplers over here anyway since they're made in the US as you mentioned.

[cacole]

Kadees have been around longer than any of the other brands, and I have hundreds of packages of them installed on my 1,000+ pieces of rolling stock; however, I have recently discovered that Proto 2000 replacement trucks seem to be the freest rolling of any other brand, so now I replace the entire truck instead of just the wheelsets, if Proto 2000 makes an equivalent sideframe; i.e., if the Proto 2000 National B-1 truck matches what the prototype had, I use their truck. I also use a lot of Atlas replacement trucks for models where 70 ton roller bearings are appropriate. Atlas trucks are used on cabeese, since they seem to be the only company that makes a replacement leaf spring caboose truck.. Kato trucks with rotating bearings are also very good. I have used only one set of Intermountain wheelsets, and didn't particularly like them. I have some Intermountain covered hoppers that don't seem to roll as well on Intermountain trucks as they would on Proto 2000 or Atlas.

[Anonymous]

On using ATF on the track. I live in a 100 year old house and the layout is in the basement ...as someone walks across the floor upstairs you can see the actual coal dust fall out of the ceiling and I have to take a vac to the layout at least once every two weeks....I am going to try to install either a dropped ceiling or plastic on the darn thing in the near future....so you can see I am dealing with large amouts of dust and the track gets very dirty.....I put a couple of drops of ATF at ten to twelve foot intervals.....or if you own one of the roller type track cleaners you can apply it to the roller with and push it around the track until you cover all the main lines, with the stub end sidings I use a q-tip or a small childs sock on my two forefingers......

Jerry

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trainnut1250

Mondo,

... I usually use proto wheel sets. I have noticed that they have more out of true sets than the other brands...

Guy

I, too, use P2K wheel sets and like them very much. I've also had some that are not true or the axel is warped (test all with an NMRA standards guage). When I find one that is bad I'll send a letter to Life-Like - they not only replace the bad wheelset, they send a whole new package!

[Anonymous]

With all the wonderful information and surprises on this thread, I think perhaps a chart of what wheelset fits what.

For example, I use 33" P2k on Athearn and Round House cars. They seem to fit very well.

I am pondering my 6 onery orecars. These are shortys with plastic wheels that are too large and in bad shape. How low can I go with a P2k or other wheelset?

[Anonymous]

Does ReBoxx make wheelsets for Intermountain, or vice-versa?

[mondotrains]

To answer your question, I just spoke to a fellow at Intermountain and he said they make the wheels for Reboxx. Reboxx, as you probably know, then takes those wheels and attaches them to various axle lengths. I think Reboxx must have about 37 different axle lengths and using the chart they provide, you can buy the precise wheelset you need for just about any manufacturer's car. For example, their chart specifies that for an Athearn passenger car, you need a 36" wheelset in a 1.035 length axle, which they have.

Regards,
Mondo

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjm89

Does ReBoxx make wheelsets for Intermountain, or vice-versa?

[mondotrains]

You mentioned that you use "LBF" wheelsets. Are they metal? I've never heard of them. What does the LBF stand for?

QUOTE: Originally posted by oc5855

Mondo,
I have used a lot of LBF wheels in nearly all my rolling stock mainly because of cost. One of the members of the club to which I belong owns a hobby shop and cuts every member a very good discount and right now LBF has the best price, and when you have over 750 carscost is really a issue. I will say that I do use other brands also like Protos in all my McKean and Front Range cars and of course Atlas comes with their own. One problem that I have encountered with most wheels is that they need to be painted to dull their apearence. Nothing looks worse than a nice string of cars with those "chrome" wheels, so I have to take the time to weather the wheels. I like others have found that there is no perfect wheel set for every purpose. I have recently started to replace the wheel sets in my Athearn loco with Northwest Shortline 40" wheels and this has helped greatly.
As far a track cleaning, at our club we have found that by nearly all the members switching to metal wheels and changing the wheels in the Athearn locos that we do not have nearly the problrm with dirty track that we had. The building that we are in is over 100 years old and has no heat or a/c on the floor we are using which is the top floor of a 3 story. For heat in the winter we are using a propane space heater whick has cut down greatly on our winter dirt over when we used kerosene heaters. The summer we still have a dirt issue as the only way to cool the building down is to open the windows and doors. We have tried most ot the methods listed by the other folks who posted replys with little to no luck, but the ATF method sounds cool, As for our way to do it which for us has nearly solved our problems is to remove the cleaning pad from under a track cleaner and replace it with a piece of masonite and just drag it around once in a while. A nothe club told us this and they have gone a far to make a couple of track cleaners out of dummy locos which they run in their loco pool.
I know it is long but there is my answer, hope it helps

[Anonymous]

Do the P2K blackening wear of within a reasonable amount of time?
And isn't there a huge markt open for the first brand to introduce balckened wheels with a shiny thead?

[Anonymous]

Hallo everyone,

I'm currently in the process of looking for the right axles to replace the plastic wheelsets. For this reason I have tested several brands and monitored their
performance for the last year.
LifeLike Proto 2000 so far have shown the best results. Although I would prefer the Intermountain wheelsets for there all metal construction (I still think that metal axles in plastic bearing should be better than plastic in plastic), I noticed that many Intermountain wheelsets created some kind of wobbling of the cars, which the LL P2K didn't.

Question: does anyone has experience with lubrication of the Proto 2000 wheelsets in plastic bearing - is it necessary?, does it improve anything? what is the long-term experience with Proto 2000 wheelsets?

Having run 40 car trains with 100% plastic wheels over the last 6 years, I have made they experience, that in regard to cleaning, wheels are only one side of the medal!
On my layout I use several different brands of track (Code 83) like Atlas, Walthers/Shinohara, Pilz/Tillig and Roco. From all these, Roco is clearly the winner, because they have a slightly rounded top surface, which obviously helps in self-cleaning under the weight of cars and especially locomotives. Dirt is obviously pushed sideways away from the surface, while on the flat top track, it is hardened on the surface itself.
I've used Roco Line track (without roadbed - because that's too expensive) throughout my hidden staging yards (20 tracks), and never had any need for track cleaning in six years in this area!

Peter

[Anonymous]

My question is, "Which metal wheelsets fit the Tyco freight cars of the early 70's?".
I am probably the last lone wolfer out there who still uses plastic wheels and horn-hooks. My fleet of 500 cars is a couple hundred down due to lack of replacement parts, ie: the ones serious modelers throw away.

[Anonymous]

I've read most of the posts and agree that the IM wheelsets are a very good, quality product. I also agree that I have experienced nasty build up and premature wear using the Kadee wheelsets. However, our club operates a very large layout that is open to the public, 30 x 160, with eight trains running. We have over 3000 JayBee wheelsets in service and have had very good service from them. The are nickel coated brass. Very little trouble has been recorded with wheel gauge or dirty track attributed to the wheels.

Just some additional thoughts...

Mark

[dwtrains]

I have had no trouble with the Intermountain wheels. Originally I tried the Kadee but the IM have more weight, especially useful in tank cars, and roll easily.
David Wise Seattle

[Anonymous]

LBF wheels are metal wheels on metal axles and are rust colored so no weathering is needed. they come in 33" or 36" sizes. They are manufactured for LBF which is in Oregon, check them out on the web as they have other products also.

QUOTE: Originally posted by mondotrains

You mentioned that you use "LBF" wheelsets. Are they metal? I've never heard of them. What does the LBF stand for?

QUOTE: Originally posted by oc5855

Mondo,
I have used a lot of LBF wheels in nearly all my rolling stock mainly because of cost. One of the members of the club to which I belong owns a hobby shop and cuts every member a very good discount and right now LBF has the best price, and when you have over 750 carscost is really a issue. I will say that I do use other brands also like Protos in all my McKean and Front Range cars and of course Atlas comes with their own. One problem that I have encountered with most wheels is that they need to be painted to dull their apearence. Nothing looks worse than a nice string of cars with those "chrome" wheels, so I have to take the time to weather the wheels. I like others have found that there is no perfect wheel set for every purpose. I have recently started to replace the wheel sets in my Athearn loco with Northwest Shortline 40" wheels and this has helped greatly.
As far a track cleaning, at our club we have found that by nearly all the members switching to metal wheels and changing the wheels in the Athearn locos that we do not have nearly the problrm with dirty track that we had. The building that we are in is over 100 years old and has no heat or a/c on the floor we are using which is the top floor of a 3 story. For heat in the winter we are using a propane space heater whick has cut down greatly on our winter dirt over when we used kerosene heaters. The summer we still have a dirt issue as the only way to cool the building down is to open the windows and doors. We have tried most ot the methods listed by the other folks who posted replys with little to no luck, but the ATF method sounds cool, As for our way to do it which for us has nearly solved our problems is to remove the cleaning pad from under a track cleaner and replace it with a piece of masonite and just drag it around once in a while. A nothe club told us this and they have gone a far to make a couple of track cleaners out of dummy locos which they run in their loco pool.
I know it is long but there is my answer, hope it helps

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: LBF wheels are metal wheels on metal axles and are rust colored so no weathering is needed. they come in 33" or 36" sizes. They are manufactured for LBF which is in Oregon, check them out on the web as they have other products also.

Yeah, but how do you model the polished rim of a wheel that's been through a hump yard's retarders? I don't change out LBF wheels, but prefer the plain metal of Proto 2000 or Reboxx wheels as a start point, paint being better at matching rust than polished steel. [:)]

[cacole]

To fawfhamilton:

I'm afraid you're stuck, because I know of no replacement metal wheelset that fits into those old Tyco trucks. At the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club we give Tyco products away to children who visit during our open houses because there is no easy or satisfactory way to retrofit Tyco trucks or couplers.

[Anonymous]

A little late to reply but just a note to mention what I have experienced with P2K
as opposed to Intermountain.

I replaced my plastic wheels on some LBF cars with the IM 36" and had a problem with the cars tilting on the wheels.

What I discovered was that the needle point on the IM sets is a narrower taper and finer point than most plastic wheels. This would be great if they fit my frames
properly but I had to switch all to P2K.
Problem solved.

[AntonioFP45]

Hey guys,

Moved this to the front page July 2003, as one of our fellow modelers had a question about passenger car wheel sets on another thread. IMHO, this has been the BEST POST EVER written on this subject. Good refresher for me as I have a small fleet of Rivorossi cars.

Thanks and a "Thumbs up" to go, Mondotrains![C):-)][tup]

[cacole]

IMHO, the best metal wheelsets are LBF. I went through all of my rolling stock and replaced every Kadee I had with LBF. LFB roll better and look better, even in Kadee trucks. They are all metal and come in both 33 and 36 inch sizes. I didn't replace Atlas, Kato, or Proto 2000 wheelsets because they were already better than Kadee, but all Athearn, Accurail, Red Caboose, etc. with plastic or Kadee wheels were changed. I can now pull twice as much rolling stock per train than before.

[Anonymous]

Great thread, read all three pages...
At MSI-Chicago's Great Train Story our HO scale trains are run more in a week then most run in a year. Any plastic wheel is replaced with InterMountain at the start. OEM metal wheels will be given a trial.

Walthers wheelsets on their passenger and commuter cars wear out the axle ends in three weeks. They're the only places where we use Kadees, besides the 28 in. on the triple level auto carriers.

Some might be aware of the problematic OEM wheels on the Athearn bethgons (2nd run UP) but the first run on the BNSF have just finished four months of nonstop running at MSI. A 24 car MDC train was sidelined as the metal axles have worn through the truck sideframes. We're now experimenting with bearing lube in plastic sideframes. Metal sideframes have always gotten conductive lube.

There's a Metra train running on a visitor controlled loop track almost all of which is a superelevated curve. The streetcrossing simulations even wears the edges of the flanges. These cars now sport IM roller bearing wheels.

Oh, how much running you ask...ten real miles per day.

David Harrison