Ozark,
Since this is a "feedback" forum, I'll go ahead and offer mine, which you may take or leave:
Positives: I love the chalk markings to the left of the door; typical of the steam and early diesel era as cars were routed at hump yards. Also, the rust on the trucks looks good.
Could use more work: The lighter rust colors on the car look a bit thick and haphazard as well as too light in color. My suggestion is, if possible, to use a bit of brush cleaner to try to remove a bit of it (be very careful not to remove the factory paint beneath!). Successive thinned washes of a darker rust color (I like Railroad Tie Brown, per Jim Six) will help because the wash will settle along the rivet lines and door track just like real water, and will "rust" accordingly. Also the vertical rust streaks to the right of the door would probably look better if they were more horizontal (scrapes from opening/closing the door).
There are lots of photos around of PRR Merchandise Service cars... I have PRR Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment Vols. 2 & 3. I weathered my Merchandise Service X29 using a photo in one of those books.
One reason so many of the hardcore weather-ers (is that a word?) use very specific photos of very specific cars as a guide is because weathering is so easy to over- or underdo.
Anyway, looks like you're on your way. My overall suggestion is to thin out your washes and apply in layers rather than all at once.
Good luck!!! Oh, and great choice of car. Of all of the Pennsy's freight car schemes, MS (Merchandise Service) is myfavorite.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Here's a weathered PRR box car:
take it easy on me!
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com
Hi guys! First time, be gentle! More for the models as I'm still learning the digital camera stuff! Have at it!
I need to do a little more detailing, and the backdrop needs work!
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
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jktrains wrote: Loathar,The roof looks good. A few things to think about. What is the average width of the rolled roofing material? Would that be correct? 16', 20' ? I don't know? To go along with what CSX was saying, on a flat roof there are usually low spots in which water puddles, maybe you could add a pit of high gloss in a spot to simulate this? Perhaps even some Future floor polish would work since it is a high gloss acrylic.
Loathar,
The roof looks good. A few things to think about. What is the average width of the rolled roofing material? Would that be correct? 16', 20' ? I don't know? To go along with what CSX was saying, on a flat roof there are usually low spots in which water puddles, maybe you could add a pit of high gloss in a spot to simulate this? Perhaps even some Future floor polish would work since it is a high gloss acrylic.
Traditional rolled roofing (which most are modeling) comes in 36". It is usually lapped 3-4" minimum. Seams would vary especially at the last 2 coarses if that cap sheet wasn't cut for width. Almost every other coarse would be pieced unless the building was exactly 25,50 or 100 ft long (the roll length), thus producing mid seams as not to waste the product.
I must add that in the era we tend to model 40-50s most urban flat roofs were tar and gravel. These roofs had an enormous life span. I have seen some that are 60+ years old and still doing their job. Rolled roofing would be more common on out buildings, small warehouses etc or if the reroof was done on the cheap. The life of a rolled roof (older asphalt was about 25-30 years), newer products and fiberglas sometimes barely last 10-15 years. Rubber so far has outperformed them all and cost the most $$$.
Newer commercial (glass capped, since about the mid 70s) still is generally 3', however I have seen wider material although not as common.
Rubber roofing is commonly 10 ft wide and 20 ft available for larger commercial installations.
Hope this info helps.
Other newer rolled roofing, double coverage is 36" wide but it is lapped at about 20-22". Most of this is fiberglas based similar to the glass cap.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
loathar wrote: I need help and I figure this is the thread to get an honest opinion. I'm trying to do roll roofing and my results are leaving me kind of flat. I used masking tape painted with some asphalt color and some darker paint for tar lines on the seams. I like the texture, but I'm not overly happy with the total look. Any suggestions? (hopefully this fits in with this thread)
I need help and I figure this is the thread to get an honest opinion. I'm trying to do roll roofing and my results are leaving me kind of flat. I used masking tape painted with some asphalt color and some darker paint for tar lines on the seams. I like the texture, but I'm not overly happy with the total look. Any suggestions? (hopefully this fits in with this thread)
Loathar, a few suggestions. Although you comment that you like the look (texture) of your current roofing, I would hasten to point out that in HO scale tarpaper roofing would not actually show visible texture. Rather, it would have a surface about as even-looking as ordinary typing paper (which I often use to represent rolled roofing, incidentally).
Rolled roofing generally comes in widths of around 30" but I suspect that on your model it is nearer twice that width. You should also indicate evidence of where one roll ends and another starts and overlaps at several points along the job. Perhaps you might consider some indications of roof patching to add some additional detail/interest. You need some vent stacks on the roof as well if the building has any interior pumbing, as well as an access point of some sort.
Finally, try some light applications of several shades of grey and black chalks to improve the general "character" and aged appearance of the roof.
Unfortunately, I don't have any "roof shots" from the large urban portion of my layout at the moment to serve as examples of exactly what I'm talking about above...perhaps I can get some later this morning. I do very much like the color you've applied to your rolled roofing and that of the tar sealing lines.
CNJ831
Loathar -
Thanx for the feedback. I do plan to fade the black lettering somehow, but I can't decide whether to do it by applying a micro-thin overspray of reefer gray, or a liquid wash. Probably "C - both of the above". I'll try lengthening a few of the rust streaks coming off the walkway supports as well.
About your rooftop: I concur with Lee, it looks like you're on the right path, but have just a little bit farther to go. What I was thinking is, the black looks a bit too 'clean' - sort of reminds me of an asphalt road surface that has been recently re-paved. If you could work in a teensy bit of brown, with some reefer gray overspray to make it look sun-bleached, that would help alot. Also, since that's a flat roof, rain water will tend to 'puddle' in some areas. Perhaps you could drip some dirt-colored water in a few spots and just let it sit there and dry; that will help break the monotony.
Jeff (Mr.K) - it's great to know I'm in good company with using cheap rolling stock! I do have a question for you though: Do you use Proto:87 wheels? I'd like to, but I doubt my trackwork would handle them.
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
loathar wrote:I need help and I figure this is the thread to get an honest opinion. I'm trying to do roll roofing and my results are leaving me kind of flat. I used masking tape painted with some asphalt color and some darker paint for tar lines on the seams. I like the texture, but I'm not overly happy with the total look. Any suggestions? (hopefully this fits in with this thread)
Looks to me like you nailed it! Maybe some rooftop details, like a vent pipe and a smoke stack, and perhaps a roof hatch would help.
If it's a more modern era layout, an A/C unit up there would look good.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Tomkat-13,
One other comment has to do with your weathering. It sometimes seems a bit over done. Do you primarily use washes or powders. India ink wash, chalks, & dry brushing (no dull-coat)On the last pic the weathering should go into the corners by the door tracks while the NP car seems overdone. The trucks should be a deeper rust color versus the yellowish color they look in the pic. What was the original color of the NP car Boxcar red. It looks like it may have been yellow, but I'm not familiar with yellow prototype cars? Thanks for your input....I have started a new layout & it will have better lighting.
I call this my "lipstick-on-a-pig" project.
A few months ago, somebody on another forum posted a photo of a worn-out looking Family Lines 4-bay ACF Centerflow. That thing kinda grew on me, so I used Photoshop to 'paint' and print some of my own decals on Testors film and painted over an old bluebox centerflow that was originally painted and lettered for Dow Chemical. This is my first attempt at 'serious' weathering, i.e. replicating the rust and grunge patterns on a prototype freightcar, and I know still have a heluva long way to go. That is the reason I used a cheap bluebox instead of a higher-priced counterpart, to minimize risk.
I used Bragdon powders; the rust splotches looked OK when I first applied them, but when I sprayed on a protective layer of dullcoat, they changed from an oxide reddish tint to dark brown. Not only that, but I also forgot to apply 'dirt' to some of the semi-hidden inside surfaces, and naturally these are plainly visible in the photograph --- oh well! I'd say the model is about 80% done, it still needs a light gray wash to fade the logos and lettering. However, I don't want to replicate all the random paint patches and splashes that appear in the proto photo. Tear into it!
tomkat-13 wrote: Some odds & ends......
Some odds & ends......
I've seen your pictures over the past number of months and while they are well composed and shot, they have always struck me as being "off" for some reason I can't ever put my fingers on. I don't know if its the angle of view being really narrow from a zoom lens, also they always seem a little too red, or maybe its all the red buildings and cars throwing it off, they just don't seem to have that bright, daylight look. What kind of lights and settings do you use for your pics?
One other comment has to do with your weathering. It sometimes seems a bit over done. Do you primarily use washes or powders. On the last pic the weathering should go into the corners by the door tracks while the NP car seems overdone. The trucks should be a deeper rust color versus the yellowish color they look in the pic. What was the original color of the NP car. It looks like it may have been yellow, but I'm not familiar with yellow prototype cars?
The concrete railings are from Rix. Fortunately he sells them separately. His price for the bridge kits is a little rich for my blood. I can accomplish the same thing with a couple bucks worth of styrene and a spray can...
wm3798 wrote:I've been putting off this project for over a year.The concrete retaining wall and bridge have been showing up more frequently in my pictures, and I decided it was finally time to do something about it. Lee
loathar wrote:Nice pics all! Driline- If I may make a suggestion? Your scenes look excellent, but you may want to consider trimming those field grass tufts down a little bit. Yours appear to be about 7-8' tall. I've always observed grass like that is generally only knee or waist high.Just an observation...
I'm using graphic line tape to mask off the street lines, so the first thing I did was hit it with a coat of primer, followed by some yellow on the road surface.
Once the yellow dried, I placed the mask for yellow line in the middle of the road. I used some scale cars to estimate the lane width. The wider lane allows for curbside parking.
Next I shot the road surface with alternating mists of grey, and flat black to get an aged asphalt look. The paint was still pretty wet when I shot this, hence the thick appearance and sheen. After the paint dried, I used some blue painters tape to mask off the road surface so I could paint the sidewalks and railings a concrete color.
I've got more work to do to finish the scene, including adding some weathering washes, some foliage, and maybe some climbing ivy, and a middle pier for the highway bridge. The road surface will also be weathered in, and the patch I made for re-using the bridge will have to be painted.
I plan to finish off the scene with working street lights, and a row of building facades against the backdrop. Then the fun stuff like parking meters, strolling pedestrians etc. This scene will represent the city of Hagerstown, so I want it be a busy scene, even though it's relatively small.
I don't have any photos, but I do have a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN0FCGm8QIQ
Here's the things I can find wrong with it. (I know that isn't the purpase of this thread)
Train acceleration/decelleration are too fast. That BSRX rock train stopped at an emergancy brake application speed. (It doesn't run too smoothly, and it would look even worse if it hit a dead spot) and the trains are WAY too short!
Have at it!
'...when you post something here you understand that it may be critiqued and commented on...Subjects can be either about modeling or about photographic technique.'
Regarding the two SW model photos -- since a Digital Rebel was used, can one assume that you have access to and experience with photo editing software? If so, the shots could be greatly improved, for the purpose of displaying the model's details, by the following:
1. Place the model on light gray poster board. The histograms for the two shots are bimodal, the first one to the extent that there is little midrange. Your matrix metering is overwhelmed by the white background, which reduces or eliminates visibility of any details below and including the black walkway.
2. To overcome the above problem displayed in these shots, reduce the contrast and increase the brightness in your editing software. In PS (Elements or CS), -5 or so and +10 or so, respectively, make details in black and shadowed areas visible. Yes, this decreases the 'drama' often associated with a contrasty pic, but is your primary purpose to evoke an emotional response or to convey modelling information? The contrast and brightness adjustments also reduce some of the tint on the white background.
3. Crop out useless or distracting information. The overhead shot should be trimmed on the top and sides, if for no other reason than to reduce wasted bandwidth. The side shot suffers greatly from brightly colored clutter at the top.
4. Under Levels, use the white point dropper on the background to eliminate the remaining pink/tan tint. This will also remove most of the offending tint from the model.
5. Apply an Unsharp Mask filter. Your pics are in focus but still soft; applying the filter on the overhead shot (try something around 350-0.7-10) brings out edge details along, for example, the roof panels and walkway pattern without imparting sharpening artifacts. A similar adjustment also brings out highlights to better define the door vents, handles, and hinges, for example, on the side shot.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Dave Vollmer wrote:For anyone interested in modeling the Pennsylvania, an invaluable resource is the free online e-magazine of the PRR Technical & Historical Society, The Keystone Modeler:http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htmI've been fortunate enough to have some of my locomotives and a hopper car appear in various TKM issues.Scanning these e-mags quickly dispells any notion that "modeling the Pennsy" is little more than simply slapping a keystone on a random car. These guys have serious talent and take modeling to a level that leaves me in awe!Another source of PRR prototype modeling is the PRRPro Yahoo modeling group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro/We all work on a single project voted by the group. Coming up next is the H-class consolidation (I've already finished mine!). The last complete project was the PRR X31/X31a class boxcar.Here's my X31a in N scale (resin and brass kit):
For anyone interested in modeling the Pennsylvania, an invaluable resource is the free online e-magazine of the PRR Technical & Historical Society, The Keystone Modeler:
http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm
I've been fortunate enough to have some of my locomotives and a hopper car appear in various TKM issues.
Scanning these e-mags quickly dispells any notion that "modeling the Pennsy" is little more than simply slapping a keystone on a random car. These guys have serious talent and take modeling to a level that leaves me in awe!
Another source of PRR prototype modeling is the PRRPro Yahoo modeling group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PRRPro/
We all work on a single project voted by the group. Coming up next is the H-class consolidation (I've already finished mine!). The last complete project was the PRR X31/X31a class boxcar.
Here's my X31a in N scale (resin and brass kit):
Dave,
Thanks for the information and links about the Pennsy.
Ed
Welcome to the new forum! Now remember to watch your choice of words!
jktrains
Nice work so far guys.
I'm a steam kitbasher in N scale. Here are my three kitbashed steam engines simmering quietly together at LEW Interlocking (click to enlarge):
From left to right:
H10sb 2-8-0 #8756. It's a Bachmann Spectrum chassis with a chopped-down Minitrix K4 boiler and a B6sb cab. The tender is also modified. I did an article for the NTrak Steam Information Book (addendum) on it. TCS M1 DCC.
L1s 2-8-2 #762. Kato Mike with the GHQ pewter and brass conversion kit for the boiler, cab, and tender. Still DC.
M1 4-8-2 #6811. You guys saw me build this step by step. Extended Spectrum 4-8-2 frame, spliced K4 boilers/fireboxes with new running boards and scratchbuilt pilot, "facelift," and K4 KW trailing truck. 210F75 tender on extended CC J3a tender frame, spliced K4 tender shells, GMM Trainphone antenna, scratchbuilt doghouse and induction coils. Digitrax DCC.
All 3 locos have Alkem Scale Models number plates.
Each represents a compromise in things such as valve gear or driver diameter. But the overall length, height, wheelbase, etc. is pretty close (within 1 N scale foot) for these engines.
jktrains,
Very nice work on the SW1000 so far...I'll be watching for pictures of the completed project. It's nice to find an intellectually stimulating thread in this forum.....
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.