I dont know about these last few posts. I recall a life where there was no internet, only good hobby shops that may or may not share information ahead of time about new products. What was on the shelf was what you bought unless you talked with one of those mail houses.
Today they push internet, wireless, celluar, HDTV etc. Technology. I have formed a humble opinion that there is sufficient technology and I need no more. So I resist buying that big HDTV because my computer's widescreen is capable of displaying it should I get TeeVee over the internet.
But I could program and run my choo choo with the computer as well. Pretty fancy. I remember when back in the 80's Cell Phones started to be sold and they were these massive bricks the size of a Bible and with a 6 foot antenna that would slice and break on everything and anything. Watching one of these people trying to walk a certain way pointing the cellphone and antenna towards the distance tower was humerous.
Now Cellphones are so common that it is possible to issue them to kindergardeners and allow them to grow up thinking these were a necessity of life. Never mind that ancient old telephone and it's wire to the base of the wall.
Im typing this over such a ancient telephone that costs more than my wife's cell does each month. Until someone explain to me why a dailtone, 911, long distance and regulatory taxes causes my (Minus DSL) land line to be more than cell costs per month I would be most appreciate it.
Half tempted to find me a wireless tower off the router and set up an account that way and tell AT&T to pack up thier bloated telephone bill and shove it.
Then cells would be a necessity now wouldnt it?
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Life in the hobby was simpler back then..Modelers was still enjoying the hobby without half the concerns if this or that was correct,hobby shops was the place to be on Saturday morning to look over the newest offerings and to meet friends,club's was still holding open houses and actually greeting their visitors.Hobby shop owners was actually friendlier back then and would share any hobby news..
Today a small group of friends gathering at the hobby shop on Saturday morning is frown upon by the younger modelers,the newer breed of hobby shop owners are all business or grumpy.
The majority of the clubs I visit the younger members are stand offish unlike the older heads that still greets visitors..
Any reason way the hobby is in growth trouble?
Speaking of phones..Mine is connected to the Internet cable and I can call anywhere in the U.S or Canada and talk till the cows come home for one monthly fee.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
During the 1950's, when prices of many HO products, most notably locomotive kits and especially RTR examples, fell to previously unthinkably low levels, the hobby's size exploded by nearly a factor of ten. Of these, 20%, alone, were teenaged modelers. Most of them did not report having extreme difficulties in participating on a modest scale and many displayed worked at the same level as the adults (see how many older teens and 20-something folks authored MR and RMC articles in those days).
Prices fell due to the influx and influence of relatively cheap r-t-r Japanese imports from the mid to late 50's as far as locos go coupled with the introduction of injection molded plastic kits for rolling stock (and the famous Globe/Athearn F-7). When PFM introduced the Southern PS-4 in 1959, it was priced at $49.50 ($335 in today's inflated currency) and only needed painting. It also represented a specific prototype. My earlier Varney 4-6-2 example cost $57.50 in 1950 and it was a kit without a tender. While based on the Southern Pacific 4-6-2 of classes P-8 to P-10, the Varney was never sold as a specficially SP engine. Go back and check the mags. Prices didn't really start to fall until after the major importers of the era (PFM, Max Gray, had been in business long enough for it to be obvious that cheap (relatively) brass was going to stay. And then, of course, there was the perceived threat from the new rage of slotcars.
Right around 1959/1060 Mantua cut its prices on a number of loco kits, most notably the Pacific and the Mikado. In the process, they cheapened the product by dropping the excellent Pittman DC-71B motor and the enclosed gearbox for the cheaper motor found in the Big Six, Shifter, et. al. as well as open gearing. A Mantua Mike or Pacific from prior to the shift was an excellent runner. Not so good afterward.
Varney lowered the price on its "Casey Jones" and "Old Lady" at roughly the same time while also cheapening the product by going to a Japanese motor (vs. the Pittman DC-60 IIRC) and using non-metallic gears. I have a 1950 era "Casey Jones". The worm is steel, the gear is brass and it's got a Pittman motor. Varney didn't actually stay in business for much longer after that. I don't remember what happened to their other locomotives since I quit following their availability because I was drooling over brass that I might just possibly be able to afford eventually because my paper route netted me $30 or so/month.
As far as John English (Hobbyline) goes, I don't really remember what happened to them. I do remember seeing set in White Front discount stores (went belly up in the early 70's), but I think they were pretty much gone by Kennedy's inauguration or shortly thereafter.
Bowser pretty much kept offering the same old stuff they always had. Basically, their offerings were only the NYC K-11, the UP Challenger and the Heavy 4-8-2. Not a lot of variety there.
Model Die Casting did introduce a 2-6-2 around 1959-60, but it was nothing but the 1480 Class 4-4-2 boiler and the tender couple with a new chassis and 63" drivers. As a free-lance model, it wasn't too bad, but it bore only the faintest of resemblance to any actual Santa Fe 2-6-2.
Penn Line lowered their prices, but I don't recall that they downgraded the quality as much as Varney and Mantua. Both Penn Line and Varney went out of business in the early 60's and Bowser was sold. If it weren't for the people who bought Bowser, Penn Line and some of the Varney dies, all that stuff would be scarce as hen's teeth.
If it hadn't been for the likes of PFM, M.B. Austin, Max Gray, etc, the hobby market would probably be far different today. Perhaps it would be closer in concept to the British where you can still get exquisite kits from the likes of DJH and other manufacturers for prototype specific locomotives.
There was a time when I was seriously considering modeling the transition era Deutsche Bundesbahn because starting around the early 80's companies like ROCO, Fleischmann and Trix started producing models that were mass produced plastic but had brass level detail and superb running characteristics. I wonder why American manufacturers took so long to get the hint.
Enough.
Andre
andrechapelon wrote: CNJ wrote: During the 1950's, when prices of many HO products, most notably locomotive kits and especially RTR examples, fell to previously unthinkably low levels, the hobby's size exploded by nearly a factor of ten. Of these, 20%, alone, were teenaged modelers. Most of them did not report having extreme difficulties in participating on a modest scale and many displayed worked at the same level as the adults (see how many older teens and 20-something folks authored MR and RMC articles in those days).Prices fell due to the influx and influence of relatively cheap r-t-r Japanese imports from the mid to late 50's as far as locos go coupled with the introduction of injection molded plastic kits for rolling stock (and the famous Globe/Athearn F-7). (Big Snip)
CNJ wrote: During the 1950's, when prices of many HO products, most notably locomotive kits and especially RTR examples, fell to previously unthinkably low levels, the hobby's size exploded by nearly a factor of ten. Of these, 20%, alone, were teenaged modelers. Most of them did not report having extreme difficulties in participating on a modest scale and many displayed worked at the same level as the adults (see how many older teens and 20-something folks authored MR and RMC articles in those days).
Prices fell due to the influx and influence of relatively cheap r-t-r Japanese imports from the mid to late 50's as far as locos go coupled with the introduction of injection molded plastic kits for rolling stock (and the famous Globe/Athearn F-7).
(Big Snip)
You haven't gotten your facts quite straight here, Andre. The price break-through came with the introduction of die-cast loco kits and then RTR die-cast locomotives by Varney, Mantua, Penn-Line and then English, all in the early 1950's. Previous to that, formed brass loco kits were the norm and much more expensive and labor intensive to build. Diecast, even RTR, locos sold in the early 50's for around a half the price of the earlier brass or mixed composition kits and at 1/10 the price of custombuilt, RTR, steamers.
Imported brass models began to appear widely around the mid 1950's, at first as very inexpensive, somewhat crude, Japanese imports, with many of the smaller examples being sold for just $9.95-$19.95. But this wasn't until well after die-cast had opened the flood gates of new hobbyists. It took several years before they even equalled the die-cast models in detail and their prices rose. IMP was the first to widely offer mid-priced imported brass, while Max Grey followed, selling top-of-the-line, super-detailed, stuff. PFM and the others all came later and dealt with high end models.
The explosion in the number of hobbyists in the early 1950's resulted mainly from the introduction of RTR and screw driver assemby, die-cast, loco kit, plus the Athearn, et al, shake-the-box plastic car kits, making the hobby accessible to the hords of less talented wouldbe modelers, not the other way round. Before the war you often needed a pretty well equipped shop to finish out an HO locomotive and be a practical hobbyist...or have really deep pockets to buy custombuilt engines from guys like Lobaugh. After 1950, just about anybody, even on a budget, could become a model railroader (and did!). MR gauged the size of the hobby at 20,000 modelers at war's end and well over 100,000 by the mid 1950's!
Another major factor in the hobby's growth were GI's returning from the war and opening hobby shops with their GI loans. Prior to the war, hobby shops handling scale model railroader supplies across the country could be counted on your fingers and toes. By the very early 1950's, MR at one point listed hobby shops nation-wide. There were 140+ in NYC alone, with over 100 shops each listed for several other major cities!
But we're getting pretty far from the thread's original intent now.
CNJ831
Hi,
I am a belgian and modeling in Nscale american prototype, with steam power.
Well in Europe we can say that train modeling is may be going to dissappear in the years coming because of course of cost but too by a little interest of the new generations.
Now only real modeler still like to model trains.
As you have seen with the master in europe, MARKLIN, they are many financial problems with the model manufacturer.
On the oder hand, train modeling is very expensive in europe, you can browse european catalog and see that no more ( N scale) steam model appears under the approximate 120 euros without DCC control, a car is around the 30euros each and a peco insulfrog turnout around a 20 euros piece without powering, a Lenz system is around 200, 250 euros with is options a decoder around the 40euros without sound; count an average 75 euros for a one with sound.
Remenber you need actually 1,45USD for one euro.
If you compare this by a game for a playstation you can cut the price in two.
Train modeling is very expensive in europe and especially for the youngsters.
On the other hand, I am modeling in Nscale american prototype and buying models in USA is very attractive for now for me.
With the overseas cost include I can receive a model of 100USD for an approximate 90euros.
So in epilog I think that the cost is very important especially for a hobby.
Many people in Europe consider Train modeling as a luxury hobby.
The consequence is the manufacturer difficulties to maintain there activity in a good financial potential even the biggest.
wow, this thread has opened my eyes to few things: i really need to become a little more frugal with my money. i'm up for a carer change this january where i'll be taking at least a 40% paycut (but my nervers will heal and headackes will go away) i generally dont throw things away, but i'm not quick to reuse when i can buy new and swipe the debit card, as in why deal with those kinda weathered 2x4's in yard, when new ones are only 3.00? i see it adds up, QUICK.
If i would have saved all those 1 x scraps from job sites and picked up all those dropped and spilled boxes of screws, i could build my whole layout's bench work with out spending a DIME.
all those peices of drywall i've thrown out (yeah it don't keep to well, but it's workable) all the partial rolls of insulation, the used light fixtures, ect, i would not be spending a dime on the basement remoldel......
well theres no use in crying over spilt milk, but if i could kick my self in the butt i would. i gues this is why they say hind sight is 20/20
ryan
Are you guys trying to catch up with the coffee shop? I see the number of posts are gaining ground.
Falls Valey RR:
"Half tempted to find me a wireless tower off the router and set up an account that way and tell AT&T to pack up thier bloated telephone bill and shove it."
I did just that a couple of years ago. I no longer have a hard wired phone. The spousal unit and I each have a cell phone. We don't miss the wall phone a bit.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
wrconstruction wrote: wow, this thread has opened my eyes to few things: i really need to become a little more frugal with my money. i'm up for a carer change this january where i'll be taking at least a 40% paycut (but my nervers will heal and headackes will go away) i generally dont throw things away, but i'm not quick to reuse when i can buy new and swipe the debit card, as in why deal with those kinda weathered 2x4's in yard, when new ones are only 3.00? i see it adds up, QUICK. If i would have saved all those 1 x scraps from job sites and picked up all those dropped and spilled boxes of screws, i could build my whole layout's bench work with out spending a DIME. all those peices of drywall i've thrown out (yeah it don't keep to well, but it's workable) all the partial rolls of insulation, the used light fixtures, ect, i would not be spending a dime on the basement remoldel...... well theres no use in crying over spilt milk, but if i could kick my self in the butt i would. i gues this is why they say hind sight is 20/20 ryan
Ryan,I know a guy that built a "operators pit" type of layout using 36"x48" pallets.He added legs and then fasten the pallets together and covered it with Homasote.Looking at the layout you can't tell its made from pallets.His wife made a beautiful layout curtain..
Marc_Magnus wrote: Hi,I am a belgian and modeling in Nscale american prototype, with steam power....Many people in Europe consider Train modeling as a luxury hobby.The consequence is the manufacturer difficulties to maintain there activity in a good financial potential even the biggest.
...
Marc, thanks for your contribution...it is good to hear how things appear from modellers on the other side of the Atlantic.
I think your middle statement that I have included in the quote is very telling...even instructive. What it suggests to me is that the population no longer favours the type of "playing" represented, or afforded, by old-fashioned toys, whether they are electrified and sophisticated or not. Toy trains and other toys are no longer de rigueur. They have been supplanted by X-Box and other toys that are truly plug and play.
Many Dads, who would be the ones to help or to encourage their sons/odd daughter (hey, be nice...and realistic, readers!), want to spend their money, if they have any that is discretionary, on beer, gas, Bib Boy's Toys, and electronics...the latest 120cm LCD TV by Media Electronics, or a computer for gaming, Z-Box, and whatever the TV ads are flaming about this Christmas season. (Sorry, holiday season...)
To get to my point, even I would furrow my brow and say, "Snow-mobiling? Why that's a "luxury hobby" when snow mobiles cost me, per unit, what 12 DCC and Sound steamers and an entire layout would cost. My preference, my interest, lies in trains, not snowmobiles. So, I would tend to dismiss, indicating a bias, whatever costs as much or more money than what I have currently invested in toy trains in order to justify what I have spent. That is my double affirmation...I spend money better than those who buy snowmobiles, and I don't even spend as much as they do to have fun.
It's all about choices and priorities...for all of us. I have said this many times before. One person's luxury is another's garbage or self-indulgence. We will often use any number of terms and characterizations to feel better about our own self-indulgences.
One last time, we haven't had it so good as since the end of the Big Exercise in 45/46. Tons of money, and plenty of freedoms to spend it as we darned well please.
-Crandell
Just my worth. I truly believe that there are less young people in the hobby than there was 25+ years ago. They have far to many diversions now that seem to be more preppy or whatever you want to call it, and they seem to have to appease their peers far more than when I was more (youthful).
If your minds are still kean, you should be able to remember that Kalmbach used to publish a magazine essentially just for them and it was called "Model Trains" It was a good introduction to the hobby as it was not a place for rivet counters and highlighted the work of the young folk or work that the young folk could do, being shown by someone with more experience. I'm sure that it was a business decsion to pull it as sales dropped and that would be because less youth were interested.
I got started through the Lionel 0-27 line up with my Father, but I contribute my ongoing interest in the hobby to "Model Trains" magazine because it showed me that I could build and do things and then other articles showed how I could improve on what I had done. It was a real growing process, education into the hobby, that I don't see today. Today the youth that are interested in MR, really have to work hard at it they don't have that opportunity to be lead gradually into it as some of us had.
I have never said it before , but a big "Thanks" to the old original staff at Kalmbach Publishing for assisting me in learning enough to have the desire to remain with this hobby throughout my life by what they offered to us through the now defunct "Model Trains" { and I still have those copies }
Johnboy out....................
James:1 Verse:5
The "Wobbly" has wobbled in my life for 57 years.
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
TA462 wrote:Once you see HDTV you just gotta have it. There is no better way to watch movies or sports on TV then in HD. I'm a technology junkie, I can't get enough of it. Wait until you watch a Blu Ray movie for the first time, its just incredible.
Yes, incredible...but I'm "content" and can live with my $200 20" Toshiba - and it's paid for. Again, it depends what your "necessities" in life are. If an HDTV screen is a must, and you have only a certain amount of discretionary income at the end of each paycheck, then you have to consider what other things you can live without. The same goes for any other hobby and/or recreation.
Look how many folks ride around in Lincoln Navigators, Cadillac Escalades, and Hummers. I would dare to guess that the vast majority of them could just as well drive Corollas, Civics, and Cavaliers...and STILL get around adequately. I always wonder how and what they are sacrificing in order to look "stylish"; as they simultaneously drive and talk on their cell phones and cut people off in traffic.
Again, it all comes down to what you deem as important and "necessary". In today's society - for the most part - "necessities" are merely conveniences and luxuries that we've deemed important enough to us that we can not possibly fathom living without them and still be happy. That's exactly what the advertisers all want us to think.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Did we have an injection of "Old Man"-itis here, or what?
(old man voice) "Back in my day, model trains where cheap and plentiful. You could get anything you want whenever you wanted it, as long as you didn't want much. And of course we never did. In my day we didn't need quality products. We got ingots of zamak that needed hours of filing and milling to even look like a boiler, and then we added our own detail parts made from from wood and brass wire, none of this "plastic" junk. Hold on, dangnabbit, I'm not finished! Then we wound our own motor cores using motor wire from Model T's, and machined our own worm gears our of old brass candlesticks. When we were done, we'd take it to show all our friends at the corner hobby shop (and there was one on every street corner back then, by gum!). All of them would say it was the best modeling they ever did see, none of this "it's not accurate" hooey. Why? Because they were all better people back then, you whippersnapper! They were friendlier, better to be around, and polite! Unlike you kids these days. You kids...we didn't need "ready-to-run", so you shouldn't either! Bah! We did everything ourselves, and that's the way it was, and we liked it."(/old man voice)
Sound familiar?
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
UNIONPACIFIC4018 wrote:As my wife points out "all men's hobbies are exspensive"
My wifes hobby seems to be children and thats MORE Expensive.
Paul3 wrote: Did we have an injection of "Old Man"-itis here, or what? (old man voice) "Back in my day, model trains where cheap and plentiful. You could get anything you want whenever you wanted it, as long as you didn't want much. And of course we never did. In my day we didn't need quality products. We got ingots of zamak that needed hours of filing and milling to even look like a boiler, and then we added our own detail parts made from from wood and brass wire, none of this "plastic" junk. Hold on, dangnabbit, I'm not finished! Then we wound our own motor cores using motor wire from Model T's, and machined our own worm gears our of old brass candlesticks. When we were done, we'd take it to show all our friends at the corner hobby shop (and there was one on every street corner back then, by gum!). All of them would say it was the best modeling they ever did see, none of this "it's not accurate" hooey. Why? Because they were all better people back then, you whippersnapper! They were friendlier, better to be around, and polite! Unlike you kids these days. You kids...we didn't need "ready-to-run", so you shouldn't either! Bah! We did everything ourselves, and that's the way it was, and we liked it."(/old man voice)Sound familiar? Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Salty? hehe. I'm only 35 so I don't consider myself old. And having a good siozed layout was never cheap. But I had the oval track I did as a kid, so for me now its ig or nothing. I want that illusionary feeling that you are actually DOING something rather then just running a train in a circle.
tormadel wrote:Basically any hobby is going to get expensive. But I do miss being able to buy a decent Athearn locomotive for $25. And then worry about spending a few extra bucks to detail it later. It wasn't 100% accurate but it looked better then the life-like or Bachmann toy trainset engines.
Yeah, and I'd like to buy gas for 35 cents/gallon, hamburger for 25 cents/pound, a new car for under $2000 (1968 Datsun 510 retailed for around $1800), a house for around $20,000 and so on. Those times are gone.
OTOH, my $700 advance purchase excursion flight to Auckland New Zealand in 1969 cost me the equivalent of nearly $4000 in today's dollars ($700 dollars then). And I thought I was getting off cheap.
TA462 wrote:If your happy with what you have then great but don't stereo type certain people because they can afford certain items that maybe some people can't. Thats not fair is it?
Wow, Dave! I managed to nail them all...AND stick my foot into my mouth at the same time! Perhaps, I was a bit hasty and too tongue-in-cheek in my "generalization" of SUV drivers, as a whole. Forgive me.
Dave, what I was attempting to say in my previous post (and, obviously, didn't do a good job of) was that there are those who might not necessarily be able to afford a larger vehicle but choose to drive one anyhow - for whatever reason. The operative word here is "afford".
Granted, there are good and necessary reasons to driving larger vehicles or buying the things that we do. That's something that each one of us has to determine individually. And, sometimes, I would like to have a (not necessarily larger but) "taller" vehicle so that I can see around the SUVs and Minivans that inevitably park on either side of me when I or my wife go shopping. (Makes it quite challenging to pull out of a parking lot or into traffic. ) However, at this moment in time, that's not a "luxury" we can afford to make.
Dave - and I say this with all sincerity and ungrudgingly: All power to you that you can afford those nicities in life and enjoy them. Again, they are ones that can make life nicer, safer and more enjoyable for us. However, I still stand by my statement that, in general, there are a number of things that we think we can't live without but can. (And, Dave, I'm not implying that those items that you mentioned necessarily all into that category.) Buying what we want and need all comes down to a matter of choice and, sometimes, sacrifice.
Dave, I don't know if that clears things up or not. Sorry again for the gross generalizations.
Paul, Man you had it easy back then. In my day the railroad hadn't even been invented yet so it was really hard to do model railroading. Just took a chisel to a block of stone, cut away every thing that didn't look like a steam engine, which was hard to do being that the steam engine hadn't been invented yet, and there was my first scratchbuilt model. Of course pushing the stone up the hill in 3 feet of snow to get to the cave was rather tough, but, as you said, we liked it!
Once you see HDTV you just gotta have it. There is no better way to watch movies or sports on TV then in HD. I'm a technology junkie, I can't get enough of it. Wait until you watch a Blu Ray movie for the first time, its just incredible.
I heard that from a lot of people but when I finally got it, I wasn't all that impressed. Yes, the picture is better but I don't think it is that much better. I got it because it clearly is going to be the standard so why not get it now.
Advertisers make big bucks convincing people to spend more than they should for things they don't really need. Take HDTV. Unless the programming on HDTV is of remarkably better quality (and the commercials considerably less obnoxious) I'll just limp along with my stone age CRT, which is usually turned off anyway.
Sure things were cheaper in the "Good old days." Like the mimimum wage, which was 75 cents/hour when I got my first paycheck. Back then I bought what I could afford. Frequently, that was nothing. Today, with a LOT more income to counterbalance my much higher living expenses, I actually have quite a bit of disposable income to use for model railroading, What I don't have is the urge to rush down to buy the latest and greatest simply because - It's NEW!!! I don't mistake, "I'd like to have that," for, "I HAVE to have that." My world won't end if I don't have the new (fillintheblank) with all the bells and whistles (and chuff and hiss and coupler clash...)
Since somebody brought up SUVs, I will concede that my wife drives one - a Toyota RAV4. When age, arthritis and artificial knees have done their number on flexibility, there are things to be said for a vehicle that doesn't have to be put on like a pair of pants. I drive a pickup for the same reason (except that my knees aren't artificial - yet.) If the Green Weenies don't like it, too bad.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Chuck.....it is very refreshing to to see a young man who is well grounded. If we had more people like you in the States, then personal credit card debt, and home forclosures due to loans that should never have been issued, would not be the terrible mess it is today.
We Americans are a consumer nation, we don't know what the word "save" means. We want it NOW like kids in a candy store so we charge it. We will pay a terrible price for this I fear.
Pay for it when you have the cash, or least pay the credit card balance each month, then the MRR will grow at a controlled pace.
grayfox1119 wrote: Chuck.....it is very refreshing to to see a young man who is well grounded. If we had more people like you in the States, then personal credit card debt, and home forclosures due to loans that should never have been issued, would not be the terrible mess it is today.We Americans are a consumer nation, we don't know what the word "save" means. We want it NOW like kids in a candy store so we charge it. We will pay a terrible price for this I fear.Pay for it when you have the cash, or least pay the credit card balance each month, then the MRR will grow at a controlled pace.
Agreed.
I say trains must be cash only. That credit card interest is a very bad thing. Credit Cards invite trouble when one stands in a sea of widgets and thinks about how much increase in the minimum payment will that thousand dollar item bring? Very bad.
Cash only provides disclipine in buying habits. I travel to both stores once or twice a month, when I do it is with a specific list in hand or pre-orders that have arrived. Moderation is the key to trains. Yes it will take me a little longer sometimes to secure some items but that credit card stays in the safe deposit.
Dont confuse the bank credit card that is tied to an account. When that item is used, the money is deducted directly from that account the same day. The problem with that is some stores may or may not like to use Credit cards due to costs if any.
We are experiencing a bit of a boom in real estate still. Dont let the big syndicated media organs rain on your parade with cries that the sky is falling. Wait until the fallout gets out of wall street and starts to rain on main street first. Going to be a bad time for the USA Im afraid.
Of course in everytime theres a thread like this we get the same answers over and over. Some people try to contrast it with some astonomical priced obsessions only engaged in by the rich...saying its cheap by comparison. And others say it cost rediculous. I AM INBETWEEN. When I look back at how items cost now, its like . As far as spending disposable income, it IS an expensive hobby. Period. Somthings you can get done on the cheap. But to create a large and impressive chunk of art is going to take way more funds than the average person is willling to spend on a 'hobby'. I myself have had to back way the hell up with this stuff. I've spent WAY too much on railroading.
You know whats not that expensive, really? Armour modeling. Spend $25 on a tank kit and work on that a few weeks. You utilize skill and it keeps you busy. A couple of dozen bucks every now and again is managable to the average joe.
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588