Does anyone else ever get frustrated by the cost of MRR'ing? I mean you really can't have a nice layout unless you spend a boat load of money. For example, if you want to make a nice yard, you need to spend a fortune on TO's, then you need switches, or ground throws, than you need coupling/ uncoupling.
Its starting to drive me crazy. I mean the Caboose ground throws, cost $4 a piece. Come on, its a piece of plastic! I know why it is so expensive. I mean there really is not that much of a demand in MRR'ing so the companies that make things need to charge a higher price to get there money back. But in the same idea, how are you going to attract new people to the hobby? When someone who is on the fence about whether to start a MRR researches what type of time and money, they may very well decide is just not worth the cost.
I hope people don't accuse me of not being serious about this hobby because of my complaints. In fact I am very serious about this hobby and that is why the high cost upsets me so much. I have plenty of room for a potentially great layout, but it is really a dream because I just can't afford much, and it really is discouraging.
Well sorry about the crybaby attitude, but I am just starting to get overwhelmed. Every time I spend money on something new it leads me down another road where I have to spend more money.
Any one else have an opinion about the high cost of MRR'ing.
Later guys,
Smitty
Yup! I am always bankrupt because I always spend my savings, and I don't actually get that much. I too am serious about the hobby, I have about $100 to spend, (the result of the whole summer and must of the spring mowing lawns and baby-sitting) and guess what I'll spend it on? Model trains!
I have my eye on a new loco.....
The prices you quote indicate to me that you're paying full retail prices instead of shopping around for cheaper sources. Caboose Industries ground throws, for example, can be had for just over half the $4 price you quote from some of the mail order sources.
While it's true that postage must be added, in my case the nearest "local hobby shop" is 80 miles away in Tucson, Arizona, so the cost of gasoline to get there and back cancels out any advantage over mail order and being able to get an item right away instead of waiting a few days for delivery.
Let's also remember that all of the plastic items we use are made from......OIL! The cost for the raw materials rises with the cost of oil. I frequently search the Walthers online catalog, searching only for items on sale....give the order to my LHS and I don't pay shipping costs.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Why do I get the distinct impression that this thread is going to get some mileage and probably get ugly...?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage wrote: Why do I get the distinct impression that this thread is going to get some mileage and probably get ugly...? Tom
Perhaps because 99 times out of 100 it usually does. On a positive note, whenever I get the "man that stuff is expensive" I pull out some old MRR issues and look at what great work some have done with minimal capital investment.
are like that. They are bored and need something to rant about, anything. I heard the same complaints back in the 1960s. History always repeats itself.
rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I hope it doesn't go that way.
I understand what our OP is saying, but who with limited means isn't going to find the same problems with (name a hobby, pastime where ones spends and doesn't earn)? Try running a 30' sailing craft for a couple of years and see what real money is all about. YEEOOOOOW!
I may be wrong, I havent' actually priced them, but R/C aircraft can't be cheap to get into and then to run for a hobby's life.
I would say that even throwing darts can get expensive since it often is accompanied by beers and burgers.
We all can't have it all. Only so much money to go around, and others get more of it than you and I.
I know what you mean by turnouts, though. So, I paid up front and made a bunch of my own with Fast Tracks and can now make a passable turnout of almost any type. The last was a #6 double-slip in HO with Code 100. Amazingly....it actually works!
Don't get me wrong here. I am spending a lot of time trying to do anything I can that improves my layout without spending money. I have scratchbuilt a few structures from wood coffee stirrers, so I hope nobody accuses me of not trying. I scratcbuilt a Trestle bridge, a Water Tower, made my own rock molds, made my own Tunnel Portels from wood, etc...
And I sincerely hope this thread does not lead to pandemonium. I just had to get my frustrations off my chest. I tried to say my piece in as diplomtic a way as possible, so people don't cut me down. I'm just saying I'm not made of money. Unless you are rich, you simply can't deny the fact that this stuff costs a lot of money.
On that note I want to thank Scubaterry for helping me by giving me a 3-truck Shay. I don't want Terry to think I don't appreciate what he did for me. I won't forget a gesture like that.
This topic appears about every other month or so and the content of the message has not changed much over the past few years. Along with any hobby comes a price tag, and model railroading is not immune to rising costs, especially in plastics.
With the cost of oil on the rise ($/bbl of oil hit $93.00+ for January futures) this affects the cost of plastics, and plastic is an oil based derivative. And with many modeling materials made of plastic such as styrene the cost of production goes up with the price of oil.
I can tell you that compared to many other hobbies you can make model railroading as expensive as you want, but it can be a very reasonably priced hobby as well.
Take the hobby of boating for instance. We went camping one weekend in the summer at Falls Lake near our house. The whole day we sat on the shore and watched as boats, ski jets, party boats, fishing boats, ski boats, etc...plied the waters. So we got to thinking about getting into boating (this was prior to the severe drought conditions) and started pricing out some boats. Your basic new pontoon boat at 18' which can hold 6-8 people starts at around $13,000.00. This is before you get a new hitch for your vehicle, and make sure the vehicle has the towing capacity to pull the boat and trailer. Then you have licensing fees, radio options, protective covers, and all the associated gear and accessories that might be required down the road, oh, and don't forget such things as gas, oil, and maintenance.
Then you have golf.....
I can tell you that I have not come anywhere close to spending $13,000 on model railroading over the past 30+ years that I have been in the hobby. Maybe ½ that, but not anywhere near the cost of a new boat.
Cheers,
Ryan
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
tstage wrote: Why do I get the distinct impression that this thread is going to get some mileage and probably get ugly...?
Instead of repeating what others have said in all those other threads. Personally I think that for what one is getting for the money, in many ways it is much cheaper than what it used to be. Also there are many ways to make it much cheaper - purchasing used, scratchbuilding, etc.
Go slow and spend what you can. Design your layout and plan your construction in stages that allow for operation at each stage. Build it as funds are available.
Most large layouts were built over many years. See John Armstrong's article on building his Canandaigua Southern printed in MR Jan&Mar 1971, reprinted in The Classic Layout Designs of John Armstrong. It shows his yearly progress in benchwork and tracklaying.
Scratchbuilding certain products such as turnouts can save money. Sometimes you can scrounge materials such as wood (be careful it's in usable condition) or use non model railroading materials such as kitty litter or sand for ballast. There have been many articles over the years in MR on making controls, some of which were fairly cheap.
Enjoy
Paul
My biggest problem is the increase in price of rolling stock and locomotives. When I seriously got in the hobby in 1992, using Athearn for example, would have brand new Locomotive kits for 30 bucks a powered SD40-2 at the high end, $18 for a dummy. This was the most pricey of the Athearn line. Now I see even the dummy kits running 45 some bucks a piece. Athearn hoppers for example were about seven bucks, now I see them running about 18 bucks a piece for a kit, not to mention their redy to runs, which run as high as $25 a piece, for one hopper car. Let's not even talk about the new SD70ms, for example, running about 130 bucks. When I got started, 130 bucks would buy me a couple engines some cars, track a few acessories and a little ground foam.
Now I know I sound like an old fart, and I understand our current environment we live in and figuring in inflation, but wow, I am really glad I purchased what I did in the early 90s, as I couldn't imagine starting from scatch in this day and age. Sorry, when I saw this thread I needed to vent my frustrations on this as well and glad that its not just me a some of my fellow model railroaders.
I have been do N scale for 30 years now and when I see the cost of some of this stuff , I am happy I am not new to this hobbie or need a whole lot. I have a bunch of old engines I use for interchangeing with my main roads. They come on the layout , drop off some cars and leave , so they dont have to run as nice as the ones I do switching with. I use newer Atlas for switching and old Atlas for interchange. Or some Like Like engines for interchange.
Also you can save a bit by scratchbuilding. which once you start you will not want another kit. Also it takes a while to scratchbuild stuff so you can save up your beans for the next big purchase.
The one thing that really irks me is the price of box cars etc. Come on now $20 a pop is unreal. I would not want to think what it would cost today to replace my cars.
richg1998 wrote: tstage wrote: Why do I get the distinct impression that this thread is going to get some mileage and probably get ugly...? Tom are like that. They are bored and need something to rant about, anything. I heard the same complaints back in the 1960s. History always repeats itself.rich
Tom, you called it. Started a little early too...
I don't usually chime in on these sorts of topics, but this is a classsic example of how they spin out of control. Somebody starts name calling and then it eventually turns nasty.
As for the subject, yeah, it's been beaten to death countless times over the years. But it doesn't mean people need to be nasty about it.
It is what it is. What's that old expression?
You can have it:A) GoodB) QuickC) CheapPick two. If you want A) and C), then it won't be B).
You don't like the cost of switches? Make them yourself. You don't like the cost of ground throws? Make them yourself. Just because someone makes a switch for $20 or a ground throw for $4 doesn't mean you actually have to buy it...you can make them yourself. Sure, it will take you some time, but that's the price you pay for not spending money for nice stuff.
Heck, I know one guy who runs his DC layout with cab block control by using a 2x4 with nails pounded in it. Each nail has wire wrapped around it that goes to a block. He then uses two aligator clips to power each block for his On30 layout. Now that's cheap!
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
I wonder if there is a forum where you can go to and gripe about the high cost of automotive mechanics.
Why, I remember when they used to charge less than 50 dollars an hour for labor.
smitty311 wrote:I see I never should have brought this subject up! Sorry, but I am a poor man, who just wants to play with trains.
Don't worry, it's not your fault. I need people to rant to sometimes too.
Rustyrex wrote:Athearn hoppers for example were about seven bucks, now I see them running about 18 bucks a piece for a kit, not to mention their redy to runs, which run as high as $25.
Paul3 wrote:I know one guy who runs his DC layout with cab block control by using a 2x4 with nails pounded in it. ... He then uses two aligator clips to power each block. Now that's cheap!
MAbruce wrote: richg1998 wrote: tstage wrote: Why do I get the distinct impression that this thread is going to get some mileage and probably get ugly...? Tom are like that. They are bored and need something to rant about, anything. I heard the same complaints back in the 1960s. History always repeats itself.rich Tom, you called it. Started a little early too... I don't usually chime in on these sorts of topics, but this is a classsic example of how they spin out of control. Somebody starts name calling and then it eventually turns nasty.As for the subject, yeah, it's been beaten to death countless times over the years. But it doesn't mean people need to be nasty about it.
If Tom had'nt lobbed the first grenade I doubt this thread would have gotten ugly. He did.
Then you chimed in. You guys like controversy?
My brother in law spent $30,000 in ONE day on a speed boat he can't afford. I've spent $8,000 over 20 years on model railroading (or 1.10 per day). Its all relative. Relatively speaking that is
I prefer the newer locomotives. My old athearn and concor stuff is gathering dust. $85 for a new atlas or proto 2000 in my opinion is a bargain. They run great. Much better than their predecessors.
Rustyrex,I don't know where you're getting your figures, but they are incorrect.
New Athearn "Blue Box" kit SD40-2's are $56.50, dummies are $34.50 (prices MSRP).
In the 1991 Walthers Catalog, the SD40-2 kit was $32.50, dummies were $12.00 (prices MSRP).
According to NASA's inflation calculator, that $32.50 should be $45.08, and the $12 should be $16.64. I would explain the additional cost above inflation as due to the plastic handrails vs. the old metal ones, the better paint jobs compared to the old ones, and the better drive compared to the old ones. It's not exactly the same product. The higher dummy cost would come from the idea that dummies aren't nearly as popular these days...and fewer units run mean higher unit cost.
New Athearn "Blue Box" hopper kits are $7.25 (MSRP) ea., not "18 bucks". The RTR's are $13.33 ea. in a 6-pack, not $25 ea. The Genesis SD70M's are $139.98, not $130...but then that's for the "top of the line" Genesis, which is only comparable to brass for the early 1990's.
All new Athearn prices from www.athearn.com
ya think?
I to am highly irritated by the high cost of model railroading. In fact I openly state to whoever will listen that I can not afford and have not been able to afford any of the new model railroad products of the last several years. To that end I am left picking over second hand stock, close out sales, and sniffing out bargains from those leaving the hobby. I am glad that Walthers has a complete consist of Empire Builder cars decorated for the era that I model. However at nearly $40.00 a car I can not afford them. Having a consist is so prohibitive cost wise I am still thinking long and hard about wheather or not I really want one.
On the other hand, I do feel that part of the reason that costs are so high is people no longer want to do alot of the "grunt" work involved with building a good model railroad. By the time they build stable benchwork, and lay smooth track, they are not in the mood to do the things that make model railroading fun. Such as assemble rolling stock, locomotive, and builing kits. All three of those are becoming increasingly available in ready to use form. and even in some extream casts, complete 4X8 or 5X9 layouts are made "Preformed" so all one has to do is assemble the correct track components, paint the scenery forms and add the finish layers of scenery. All this work coming to you completed adds to the cost of model railroad products. Does the price of oil, and therefor the plastic that is made from it have alot to do with the price of model trains. Yes it does. But again does not account for the whole picture, Does inflation have alot to do with the increased cost of model trains these days. Again I would say yes. but just blameing these things on inflation does not present the whole picture iether. I feel one also has to consider the willingness of the contemporary model railroader to allow things to be done for him. Even though labor is cheaper in china. They are performing labor today that used to be done by the modeler 10 years ago.
I am sure some one will say that people do not have the time today as they once did. I would agree with that. But I also feel that America as a country has lost sense of its priorities. I feel America as a whole is a narcicistic place and many people. (Whom I hope are not model railroaders) are caught up in the great activity known as "Keeping up with the Joneses." Mr. Jones gets a new car, Say a Ford Taurus, well Mr. Smith cant let mr. Jones upstage him like that so he goes and buys himself a Chevy Caprice. Now Mr. Smith doesn';t know that Mr. Jones got the new ford taurus because his old car that he drove for the last 5 or 6 years was wrecked and thus he was forced to buy a new car. He just sees that Mr Jones has a new car and so he needs one to. Now this example may be a little over the top. but sadly I see it all the time. And I live in Wyoming.
I feel America has gotten this way because we have lost sense of our priorities. In years past our priorities use to be centered around the family and home. Now they seem centered around how much pointless stuff we can accumulate. I found that I don't let my self get caught up in that mentality and I am a much happier person. Its sort of like that line from that one Cheryl Crow song. "Its not about having what you want. Its wanting what you've got" Now if I can only stop going "Oh that would be a cool thing to build a model of" and then the next thought being "To model it I need........." I will finally have "eneugh" trains.
Sorry I kind of got to ranting, but I was feeling reflective.
James.