Larry,
Wrong again, but its your opinion just as a model railroad belongs to its owner with its rules. You miss the entire point completely. A good show is way more than a bunch of WW2 retreads selling last year's stock of plastic whatevers. At Timonium, you'll find over 20 operating layouts of all scales (except summer show) with folks welcoming newbies and the young to run and learn about model trains. Then there are the free clinics...many with hands on topics. And then the commraderie. Go find that on the net. This is also true of several other shows I have attended. Have you been to the West Springfield, MA show? Many have and you may find yourself a bit emabarrased at your Chicken Little comments.
I'm not at all religious, but I'll say a prayer for you. I hope when the time comes, you'll find a computer beyond the pearly gates. I'll find a train show!!!!
HZ
Since we're on the 4th page, I'll give my opinion once more just as a refresher.
I don't go to try shows looking to buy new items from dealers, or as a replacement for a long gone LHS. Anytime I buy any thing at a show, it is from soneone's personal collection where he is selling surplus items. New in the box stuff is usually too expensive at shows, with the exception of a few local dealers.
I go to train shows for the reasons Howard mentioned above. To look at layouts, maybe some clinics, browse around, talk to people; generally for entertainment purposes. All forms of entertainment cost money, so the price of admission and parking is about the same as going to a movie, or dinner, or something similar.
- Douglas
DoughlessI go to train shows ....to look at layouts, maybe some clinics, browse around, talk to people; generally for entertainment purposes.
You forgot "to get me out of the house" and "for the camaraderie and fellowship"
Howard,Maybe.But,the best shows I go to is Berea,Dalton and Bucyrus.
When I go to a show its not for watching trains run loops but,to shop.I do enjoy watching a few laps but,that's below enjoying a cup of coffee and a slice of apple pie.
My "chicken little" comments is closer then you may want to admit. We modelers can make or break a show. They need us far more then we need them.
From the comments I read on other forums the general consensus was the Timonium shows wasn't all that great this year.
At any rate unless things changes you should see shows falling from favor in the next few years and seeing some has already fallen into the "there was" book. One can denay that but,it will happen and I based that on attending several shows a year besides my three favorites listed above.
BTW..I said on the old Atlas forum way back in 2002 we will the closing of mom and pop hobby shops by the hundreds unless they wise up and get a internet presence.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
maxman Doughless I go to train shows ....to look at layouts, maybe some clinics, browse around, talk to people; generally for entertainment purposes. You forgot "to get me out of the house" and "for the camaraderie and fellowship"
Doughless I go to train shows ....to look at layouts, maybe some clinics, browse around, talk to people; generally for entertainment purposes.
And the frying pan or rolling pin that might be awaiting some modelers when they return from the show with more trains.
I was to smart for that..I toss my hat into the house and if it came flying back out I vamoose from the area.
Seriously my wife spent more at shows on building kits,vehicles,paints and wee people. I just bought odds and ends and quality use freight cars.
BRAKIE.I toss my hat into the house and if it came flying back out I vamoose from the area.Smile, Wink & Grin
Nah, no hat tossing. Walk in backwards and if she catches you you can say you were just leaving.
BRAKIE Howard,Maybe.But,the best shows I go to is Berea,Dalton and Bucyrus. When I go to a show its not for watching trains run loops but,to shop.I do enjoy watching a few laps but,that's below enjoying a cup of coffee and a slice of apple pie. My "chicken little" comments is closer then you may want to admit. We modelers can make or break a show. They need us far more then we need them. From the comments I read on other forums the general consensus was the Timonium shows wasn't all that great this year. At any rate unless things changes you should see shows falling from favor in the next few years and seeing some has already fallen into the "there was" book. One can denay that but,it will happen and I based that on attending several shows a year besides my three favorites listed above. BTW..I said on the old Atlas forum way back in 2002 we will the closing of mom and pop hobby shops by the hundreds unless they wise up and get a internet presence.
Actually the past winter and spring Timonium shows were quite good and well attended. Both shows had an excess of 700 tables and over 20 layouts. The recent summer show which is always the smallest was not great.
Weather was and always is a factor, but the new management at the fairgrounds changed the dates from the well established June event to early July and it ran against the National Train show. Not great!!! I do agree with Larry about how marketing is changing to on-line everythngs and progress (yuk) cannot be stopped, but what can be done is to promote our hobby to younger folks and possible newbies....henceforth the shows or good shows. And of course fine stores... what is left of them.
I also concur that no retail train store today can survive without a strong on-line presence.
Howard,What would help the new modelers the most is a good hobby shop-you see lots of R/C shops where the new R/C fan can get tons of information. I know of two R/C shops that has outside race courses.Instant use of your newest R/C car or truck. As far as R/C plane flying there are laws governing where you may fly.
Train shows are good for a day's outing and finding new or used OOP models,modeling supplies,paints,decals etc as you know but,they're that the final solution for the newbie but,can help.Today they have to turn to forums and You Tube to find answers that was once a phone call away.
Of course Columbus has several top model train shops and several clubs that can help the new modeler. In fact I will be making my annual rounds of those shops come fall.
Having read about the Timonium shows I would like to attend one but,going is around 10 hours including rest(coffee) stops from Ohio plus two nights in a motel-I would want to be fresh and well rested for the show and well rested before making the return trip. I'm not as healthy or young as I use to be.
The recent Timonium shows may have had a good vendor table count and attendance, but IMO, the "quality" of the vendors, in general, are not as good as they were a few years ago. Even my wife, who is not a train nut, but has regularly attended the T show with me since 2011, has noticed the sharp decline in "better vendors" in the past year or so. Yes, one or two are no longer there because they went out of business but there were definitely some regulars who were vendors I always browsed and had appealing stock to look through. Yes, I have heard that no one was driven away, but I have heard some vendors who were still there telling me that some stopped coming; since I don't remember the particulars I won't state things that may be inaccurate; my wifes memory is much better and she could probably repeat what she remembers.
All that said, things are what they are, and the Timonium show is still good and worth going too and to be fair, there are those who have fond memories of what it used to be like before I moved into the area (2009) and say it before I started going, it used to be much better even then. I do know I don't see some vendors I used to see, and that is a loss to the show; but I don't know if the others who say it was better prior to 2009 are seeing through rose colored glasses or whatever. The summer show is small enough that it is debatable whether it is worth the 90 minute drive, but fall, winter and spring usually are so I do plan on going. There is a Greenberg show coming near where I live late August so I'll still be able to get a show fix this summer. Yes, a fairly small percentage is HO and too darn much O scale and toys but it's close and I often find some things I like.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The last show in June at the Metrolina fair goround in Charlotte NC was good but for next year it has to be at another location because Metrolina is sold.
Russell
Larry--
I would hope that new folks to the hobby would not be relying on internet forums for "accurate" information. Although the dcc and electronics related technical information on the internet forums can be very good, the modeling information is sometimes questionnable at best.
Perfect example: within the last couple weeks, on another forum of which I'm no longer a member and do not post, some folks were extremely critical of Athearn's 65' HO mill gondola, and said it was flat out "wrong" ie too wide, etc. based upon some alleged drawings. The FACT of the matter is that Athearn 65' mill gondola is a dead-on accurate model of a Santa Fe gondola originally constructed during 1937, with subsequent lots during 1941, 1944, and I believe as late as 1955. The actual product reviews by the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society are viewable online by anyone including all non-members, and were very good and informative.
So in that particular case, as in many others, as a result of someone not getting all the facts and assuming that "Athearn screwed up", someone reading an internet forum would receive very inaccurate information that might negatively sway any purchasing decision--and would cost the manufacturer prospective sales. No, they can't make a road-specific gondola for each and every railroad, but when they tool a new car, they usually make it correct for one railroad.
I get that there are train shows out there that might not be that great, but there are excellent ones that remain, and the clinics offered at those shows can be most helpful to newbies.
Respectfully submitted--
John Mock
PRR8259I would hope that new folks to the hobby would not be relying on internet forums for "accurate" information. Although the dcc and electronics related technical information on the internet forums can be very good, the modeling information is sometimes questionnable at best.
There lies another issue a newb asks about a MRC power pack and is told he needs DCC. Ask about laying track and he is to buy,that and this tool.
Thankfully there is some good tutorials on You Tube covering a lot of the basics from track laying to installing DCC decoders.Woodland Scenics has several scenery and a ballasting videos on You Tube.
As far as clinics at shows I'm sorry to report none of the shows I attend has any, not even the best of the best Berea and that show uses 4 big buildings chuck full of dealer tables and few layouts. For me that is a must attend show followed by the Dalton show.Both shows is 2 1/2 hour drive but,well worth the trip and both has good coffee and apple pie.
Observations about train shows...then and now!
I arrived in Maryland in 1963, TDY.....Army from Ft. Monmouth, NJ. I had just got back into model railroading the year before....and man, was I ever eager to learn and acquire as much as I could about the hobby. There were literally no shows except for the very few tinplate collector's swap meets...and later on the TCA and TTOS tinplate events. I seem to remember around the late 60's and early 70's several firehouse and Moose lodge shows beginning, but they were mostly about toy trains and usually were breaking up around the time that I arrived. (I'm not an early riser). By the mid 70's, there were so many shows in the mid-atlantic area that one could attend one each weekend and then some. But still they were mostly about tinplate and still wore the badge of "swap' meet. I'm only speaking of my area, as I'm sure the midwest and west coast must have had some kind of model railroad shows.
During this time there were excellent train shops both here and in NJ. Mail order houses were just beginnnig and the internet was still in Al Gore's head. In 1973, I was so impressed with the retail model train business, that I began my own shop also in 1973. (for the record, it was doing great, but when one receives an offer to earn around 5-6 times what the shop pays and there is a buyer waiting in the wings...you sell!).
During these times I met Bruce Greenberg as he also then lived in Columbia. Bruce was a rather avid tinplate collector, but loved anything to do with the hobby. At the time he began producing B/W copies of old Lionel and AF catologs, and asked if he could display and sell them in my shop. Wow, they caught on immediately and withn a short time he sold his huge tinplate collection to purchase color printing equipment to now print catalog reproductions in full color. They became even more successful, and I think at that time Bruce (has a Phd.) resigned from academia to pursue this new line full time. His wife. Linda as I recall, was fully supportive. During this period, he began to talk about his ideas of starting a really super model train show, and did so, but unfortunately the year after I sold the shop in 1975. If at the time I still owned the shop I would have been the first to rent tables and probably tucked him in bed and made him breakfast for a month just to get in... assuming there was a waiting period.
The then Greenberg shows in this area were great as there was a large selection of individuals selling really good scale models in HO and other scales. Bruce's senior assistant was Ralph Barger was an HO modeler and the driving force behind serious scale modelers becoming vendors at Greenberg's shows. Within a few years Ralph retired and Linda had the idea of bringing doll houses into the event. Within a very short time, the shows became around 35% doll houses, then other assorted stuff like cabbage patch dolls, hot wheels and similar toys with still the emphasis on tinplate . Most of the scale dealers did not want to be in show that is only partly about scale model railroading, so it became what it is today except for the doll house minitures which were eventually dropped.
This was 1982 and the beginning of the scale only model rairoad show in Ellicott City which became the Great Scale Model Railroad show aka the Timonium show as it moved to Timonium, MD in 1985. Until my sale of the show, there were over 2400 vendors who participated over the decades. Many are now in the afterlife, many retired, and many decided on just internet sales and eBay...mainly due to age and ever increasing travel expenses. The show has attracted new vendors...and some quite good with interesting products, but still attrition has become the major battle. Unless more folks enter the hobby and with some becoming vendors....now we get back to the point of the original message.
There is still quite bit more to say on this topic, but something about whipping a dead horse comes to mind. If interest still prevails, I'm certainly for continuing as there is so much to tell.
Howard,My first Train Show was a show in Cincinnati back in '69. There was no dealers just guys selling their excess goods and there was a slide show-cost free..Then after a Army hitch and railroadin' my next show was in Huntington WVa..I displayed a N Scale door layout at several shows between 85-87. I attend a lot of shows and talked to a lot of dealers and as a club member I worked our local show.