Remember this is still new and there is sound available. It is only a matter of time before there are sound decoders. I think the phone controler opens up a whole new area for customization with an easier interface.
Steve
rrebell For starters you can use a sound cube in the larger scales. In the smaller you will have to cobble your own, the Bluetooth device itself is very small.
For starters you can use a sound cube in the larger scales. In the smaller you will have to cobble your own, the Bluetooth device itself is very small.
Oh, you're talking about a Bluetooth audio receiver in the loco to play the sounds from the phone. So, when you select a different loco, now you also have to select the audio receiver for that loco (I can see it now - "I'm running this diesel loco here, why is my sound coming out of that steam loco over there?").
Also, if you have to cobble your own, that certainly cancels out any ease of implementation advantage BlueRail has over DCC.
I'll trade anyone electrical work for plumbing LOL.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Wish I was closer too, would fix your plumbing. Just a note, replace any metal drain pipes under the sink with the white plastic ones with the hand tight nuts, save you alot of problems if you plan on living there a long time.
rrinker ATLANTIC CENTRAL Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it". Sheldon We don't see the water in the plumbing pipes either, unless there is a leak... BTW I hate plumbing. Across several hosues I've seen very few wiring issues, but plumbing - forget it. Every cobbled together pile of junk you can imagine. There's a drip under my kitchen sink right now, and I might as well just repalce everythign from the sink to the main drain pipe at this point because what's under there is a convoluted mess with things coming off at odd angles to hook the two sinks plus dishwasher drain all together. Outside of the traps and some elbows, everythign si cut to fit, so why is it all so far off? I don't expect perfect but come on, you think anyone should be able to cut a piece of pipe to the nearest half inch or so. Not to mention there are all sorts of thinks linked together, it's not all ABS and not all stainless, but a mix with couplers from this to that - no wonder it's dripping. ANd repalced the badly corroded valves at my washing machine. One already had a threaded connector soldered to the end of the pipe, so some plumber's tape and screw in the new valve and it was good to go, no drips at all. The other had an all soldered connection with a short piece of horizontal pipe, so I used one fo those Shark Bites things. Now I have to take it off and do a proper soldered conenction because the <fine> thing drips. Useless piece of junk, yet I had a licensend plumber tell me they are great. I should have just soldered it in the first place - I needed an excuse to buy a torch anyway. Now, since there is no other shutoff, I have to shut off the water to the entire house to replace this a SECOND time. --Randy
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it". Sheldon
Sheldon
We don't see the water in the plumbing pipes either, unless there is a leak...
BTW I hate plumbing. Across several hosues I've seen very few wiring issues, but plumbing - forget it. Every cobbled together pile of junk you can imagine. There's a drip under my kitchen sink right now, and I might as well just repalce everythign from the sink to the main drain pipe at this point because what's under there is a convoluted mess with things coming off at odd angles to hook the two sinks plus dishwasher drain all together. Outside of the traps and some elbows, everythign si cut to fit, so why is it all so far off? I don't expect perfect but come on, you think anyone should be able to cut a piece of pipe to the nearest half inch or so. Not to mention there are all sorts of thinks linked together, it's not all ABS and not all stainless, but a mix with couplers from this to that - no wonder it's dripping.
ANd repalced the badly corroded valves at my washing machine. One already had a threaded connector soldered to the end of the pipe, so some plumber's tape and screw in the new valve and it was good to go, no drips at all. The other had an all soldered connection with a short piece of horizontal pipe, so I used one fo those Shark Bites things. Now I have to take it off and do a proper soldered conenction because the <fine> thing drips. Useless piece of junk, yet I had a licensend plumber tell me they are great. I should have just soldered it in the first place - I needed an excuse to buy a torch anyway. Now, since there is no other shutoff, I have to shut off the water to the entire house to replace this a SECOND time.
Randy,
If Reading was a little closer, I would come over and fix up your plumbing.....I do that too.
rrebell They do have sound onboard if you want it, you have to buy the parts yourself at this moment but it can be done especially in the larger scales.
They do have sound onboard if you want it, you have to buy the parts yourself at this moment but it can be done especially in the larger scales.
The deal breaker for me is no sound in the actual locomotive for Bluerail. I'll take DCC any day of the week and three times on Sunday.
And still, Bluerail is a non starter for me because I don't have a smart phone, don't like touch screens, and want somthing I can use without looking at the throttle.
I have a very hard time with a tablet, and a tablet is too big to carry around as a throttle...........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrinker Some people just like to overcomplicate things instead of looking at the obvious. There's even less to hook up with the Zephyr than there is with a PowerCab - just 2 wires to the rails to terminals clearly labeled on the back, and plug in the power transformer to the rather obvious socket on the back. But just mention 'electricity' to some people and they instantly freak out and suddenly cannot follow basic directions. Really an amazing phenomenon. You can take someone who can completely tear down a complex racing engine and reassemble it with their eyes closed, but ask them to make sure there is power to the ignition module and their eyes glaze over. --Randy Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it". Sheldon
rrinker Some people just like to overcomplicate things instead of looking at the obvious. There's even less to hook up with the Zephyr than there is with a PowerCab - just 2 wires to the rails to terminals clearly labeled on the back, and plug in the power transformer to the rather obvious socket on the back. But just mention 'electricity' to some people and they instantly freak out and suddenly cannot follow basic directions. Really an amazing phenomenon. You can take someone who can completely tear down a complex racing engine and reassemble it with their eyes closed, but ask them to make sure there is power to the ignition module and their eyes glaze over. --Randy
Some people just like to overcomplicate things instead of looking at the obvious. There's even less to hook up with the Zephyr than there is with a PowerCab - just 2 wires to the rails to terminals clearly labeled on the back, and plug in the power transformer to the rather obvious socket on the back. But just mention 'electricity' to some people and they instantly freak out and suddenly cannot follow basic directions. Really an amazing phenomenon. You can take someone who can completely tear down a complex racing engine and reassemble it with their eyes closed, but ask them to make sure there is power to the ignition module and their eyes glaze over.
Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it".
cuyama rrebell No, it is so simple a manual is really not needed. Since you have indicated that you aren't even using BlueRail yourself, respectfully, how would you know? The amount of BlueRail hype on this forum has become egregious. Many carelessly cite features that the developers admit will only be available far in the future (if ever) as current capabilities.
rrebell No, it is so simple a manual is really not needed.
Since you have indicated that you aren't even using BlueRail yourself, respectfully, how would you know?
The amount of BlueRail hype on this forum has become egregious. Many carelessly cite features that the developers admit will only be available far in the future (if ever) as current capabilities.
Yeah, I agree with you, Randy, and with cuyama as well. When I got into HO scale back in early 2004, I started out with a DC power pack, then added 3 more DC power packs to run multiple trains on four concentric tracks. That got boring quick, so I bought an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp DCC system and had it up and running in minutes.
Rich
Alton Junction
cuyama JEREMY CENTANNI DCC is complicated Depends. I opened my NCE gear originally, plugged it in, turned a knob, ran trains.
JEREMY CENTANNI DCC is complicated
Depends. I opened my NCE gear originally, plugged it in, turned a knob, ran trains.
cuyama,
You must of cheated and looked at the manual. Similarly, with my Power Cab I think I was up and running in 5 min. Not complicated...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The more things you want your system to do,the more complex it becomes. With complexity you get more places that can go wrong. The issue here is not so much DC or DCC or blue rail or pink engines, but getting the wireing done correctly and bullet proof. If we are honest with ourselves wiring is not our strong point. Murphys law will not be denied. The club I belong to has 2 men who used to install switch boards and the like for the phone company, they did most of the wiring for the clubs layout and we have had very few problems as a result.I imagine some yutz will say with dead rail you do not have those problems yadda yadda yadda. The vast majority of model railroads do not use dead rail. Blue train or what ever will see the same problems sooner or later.
Perhaps you should slow down and actually READ the manuakl, not skim, over what you think is the unimportant stuff. Not a criticism - most people do this unconciously. Ask a woman, they will say more guys that gals do this, but whatever, it IS true.
What is so complicated avout selecting and runnign a train? Complex button combinations? You pres Loco, key in the cab number of the loco (which is what you SHOUDL be using as an address - so nothing to remember, or write on cheat sheeats) and press the enter key. DONE. Now use the throttle and direction switch to run the train. EXACT same key sequence on EVERY DCC system (except Bachmann EZ Command and the pre-Prodigy MRC systems), even if they may call the button some variation of "select" or "loco".
You are also way over simplyfying Bluerail. You have to pair the receiver witht he controller SOMEHOW, this is part of the Bluetooth standard. They may put a fancy face on it, but it's a required step every time yiou use a new phone or have a new loco, and it's not 100% reliable either - have PLENTY of BT devices over the years with various smartphones and so forth. And you have to get power on the rails somewhere for the Bluerail receivers to work, so there's some sort of variation of the "turn on track power" step needed. All of the 'examples' of Bluerail thus far seem to visualize 1 loco with 1 smartphone. But I have dozens of locos on my layout. I use different ones, and different combinations of them, for different trains per prototypical practices. Not much is said about any sort of MU capability with Bluerail (at least Ring's RailPro thoroughly covers how they handle this). These sort of features are not "would be nice to have" things, they are requirements for anyone who engages this hobby at anything approaching a serious level.
As for "difference of opinion", you're the one who titled the thread with some extremist hyperbole. I think the vast majority of responses so far have provided factual information, not hype about a barely available new product. I'm sorry that you are having issues with Digitrax, but as a user for 14 years I've never had any problems figuring out how to accomplish anything I wanted to do, and my ex father in law, who barely remembers how to turn the computer on, was able to easily operate his locos with my Zephyr even when i wasn't around. He did stay away from the DT400 throttle I added though. He is a career railroader, not in some technical position, and doesn't have a college degree or any sort of technical training, not in mechanics, or electrical stuff, or any of it. He picked up the basics of how to turn the system on and run a loco pretty quickly. He's a bright guy, don't get me wrong, he just has no specialiazed training of any sort that might help him understand DCC - in fact he pretty much has no idea how it all works under the hood, just that he could select the cab number of one of his locos that I installed a decoder in and make it run.
JEREMY CENTANNIDCC is complicated
Some users make DCC much more complicated, that wasn't my preference.
At this point Bluerail has a long way to go to match DCC's capabilities for all but the simplest situations. Maybe they get there. But claiming that they will "destroy" DCC with the very modest subset of DCC's features (and bulky hardware) that Bluerail offers today is premature at best and pointless hyperbole at the worst.
I'll leave this thread now to the hypesters and the hopers.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Wow! I thought I was the angry one posting in the first place.
People are jumping on folks for having a difference of opinions.
DCC is complicated, some manufacturers make it needlessly so. That helps no one in this hobby as in "its not a good thing".
I said this earlier, here is the reality, Bluerail will get itself a pretty good market presence quickly. Unbox train, build track, place locomotives on track, download and open app. and be ready to go in seconds after that. Only the hardcore will go for something more after this, especially as the price drops and more enter the market.
It won't make people throw away DCC, it might make some with small setups convert, especially among the younger crowd. Double bonus as it will be bluerail and dcc compatible.
Everything above is the truth, the guys here with kids from 2-14 know exactly what I am talking about and it will happen.
Arduino will come for it, apps for everything u can think of, you will have signals and everything else your heart desires.
I have DCC, I am learning DCC, I am fighting poor manuals for the DCC. 99% of the time that doesn't happen with toys/books/etc that need to have things downloaded. They work with minimal fuss(there are exceptions to every rule).
Maybe its a dream, maybe its not. It will bring in a new level of ease for outsiders to enter the realm and at the end of the day, I think we are past the want new blood stage, more like we need new blood period.
If Bachmann was smart they would have a set like this in every Toys R Us, hobby shop and train show from coast to coast. Make it easy to use(only assuming they have) and there you go.
rrebellNo, it is so simple a manual is really not needed.
No, it is so simple a manual is really not needed.
In reality, rrebell - I find that difficult to believe.
What if you mess up a setup and you can't figure out how to get out of it or fix what you "broke"? It's so intuitive that that will NEVER happen? Are you going to wade through a bunch of YouTube videos to find out what the issue/fix is?
Me thinks you have waaaaay more wishful thinking about the technology as it relates to other users if you really think a manual is not needed.
rrebellN was not running because of Digitrax box that malfunctioned, person fixing it was well qualifed but could not get the info to fix, even online
Any system involving any sort of electronics can potentially have a fault of some sort. You seem to think that this Bluerail thing will be perfect, and that operation using it will be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. Yet I believe that you have not set up or used this yourself. So I'm afraid that I fail to see how you can be qualified to tell us how wonderful it is.
rrebell joe323 This discussion reminds of my favorite computer manual "IBM 370 principles of operation ". A completely unintelligible book even to experts about the old mainframe compute. If I have to spend hours pouring though a manual I am not interested in that system BT or DCC. Most of the people seem to learn Bluerail by watching a Video.
joe323 This discussion reminds of my favorite computer manual "IBM 370 principles of operation ". A completely unintelligible book even to experts about the old mainframe compute. If I have to spend hours pouring though a manual I am not interested in that system BT or DCC.
This discussion reminds of my favorite computer manual "IBM 370 principles of operation ". A completely unintelligible book even to experts about the old mainframe compute. If I have to spend hours pouring though a manual I am not interested in that system BT or DCC.
Most of the people seem to learn Bluerail by watching a Video.
So you're saying BlueRail is too complicated to transfer it to manual form...??? Then you would have to peruse through a whole series of videos just to learn about the intricacies of BlueRail???
Seems more complicated and time consuming than writing a manual for such a proposed simplier setup.
Lets see, easy to use........
My DC advanced cab control took a year to design, and longer to build (only partly complete now).
But, I can explain to a new operator how to run a train in just seconds, especially if a dispatcher is on duty.
It works like this:
Here is your wireless throttle, that is your train. Moving to your left is west, this button to left makes you go that way. This button to the right makes you go east.....
This button at the top speeds up your train, this button below slows your train down, this other button stops your train quickly......
See the signals, if the signal is red, stop. If it is green you can go.
Even without a dispatcher, you only need know a few other things.
There are local tower panels, you will need to know your throttle number.
There is a little map on the tower panel, you push the button numbered for your throttle for the track section you are in, one button for the route through the interlocking you wish to take, and one button for the track section you will be entering.
Your signal will turn green, you can go....
At the next tower panel, select the route, one button. Select the next section, one button, your signal turns green, you can keep going.
There you have it, my complete operators manual for mainline operation......
Joe Staten Island West
So, if I follow your train of thought as interpreted: A poorly written manual for your Digitrax Zephyr means that all DCC manuals are poorly written and therefore the current DCC technology will be destroyed? I wonder what will happen if (when) you have a negative experience with Blue Rail? As I said before: If you like it BR and it works well for you then be happy with it and enjoy your trains. You (and everybody else) will be pleased to learn that I am now out of this conversation. Happy Railroading!
Old Fat Robert