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I think Bluerail will destroy conventional DCC after getting into my own DCC setup....

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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:50 AM

tstage
  1. Can both a rechargable battery and a BlueRail board reasonably be expected to fit under the hood of an HO- or N-scale diesel locomotive?
  2. How easy or convenient is it going to be to recharge the batteries?
  3. The price for rechargeable cell phone batteries is usually $20 and up and has been for years.  So, what I save using a smartphone as a throttle gets eaten up (and then some) in the purchase of batteries for each of my locomotives?

Tom, I'd suggest you read our articles "Battery power without compromises" (June 2016 issue) and "Battery power and remote control" (May 2015). Neither project uses BlueRail components, but the technology and component size is similar.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:29 AM

Tom,

you know the answers, don´t you?

One more point which tends to be forgotten is that our trains need 14 - 16 Volts to operate, not the 3.7 Volts most "smart" devices run on. The battery will not really be small nor cheap.

But what do we know, we are just a bunch of ignorant old people turning our back on new technologies!

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:21 AM

Since I still haven't received an answer to any of my questions, I'll ask yet a 3rd time:

  1. Can both a rechargable battery and a BlueRail board reasonably be expected to fit under the hood of an HO- or N-scale diesel locomotive?
  2. How easy or convenient is it going to be to recharge the batteries?
  3. The price for rechargeable cell phone batteries is usually $20 and up and has been for years.  So, what I save using a smartphone as a throttle gets eaten up (and then some) in the purchase of batteries for each of my locomotives?

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:53 AM

Ok, back on target. First off the Bachmann engine is not the same as the BlueRail product, period. Alot is the same but the BlueRail decoder has leads if you want them that can go to a battery or a capasitor, problem solved.

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:46 AM

Bucksco

Thinking about starting a "Positive" thread for those who are interested in using Bluetooth technology. Tired of reading why the old guard don't have a need for it.

It's called discussion, Jack.  That's what makes the forum interesting.  If I am interested in something I would prefer to see/hear both the positive and negative to get a better balanced view.

I do that often when shopping on Amazon.  Even a negative review on a product or book can reveal something that I hadn't considered or deemed important.  I'd rather get the upside and downside so that I knew I was making the best choice for me.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by Bucksco on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:45 AM

Exactly!

Jack
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:40 AM

Bucksco

Thinking about starting a "Positive" thread for those who are interested in using Bluetooth technology. Tired of reading why the old guard don't have a need for it.

Talking of arrogance ...

Well, for heaven´s sake, start that new thread and share your experience with BlueRail with those who are interested. I am as much interested in it as in playing Pokemon Go!

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:37 AM

Choops

 

 
Bob Schuknecht
 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

And still, Bluerail is a non starter for me because I don't have a smart phone, don't like touch screens, and want somthing I can use without looking at the throttle.

Sheldon

 

 

 

Amen!  I do not have a smart phone and would not buy one just to run trains.

 

I use NCE, I can control the train with the controler in my left hand without having to look at the buttons. I have my right hand free for throwing switches and uncoupling cars.

Someone asked ages, I am 57.

 

 

 

You may not like smart phones, which is fine, but you have to understand that they are not going away.  A smart phone can do almost everything a home computer can do and more.  For a lot of people it has eliminated the need for a home computer.  You can read this forum on a smartphone.

adding smartphone compatibility to the front of a train box at a hobby shop may interest a younger generation.  And those are the future model railroaders.  When they start there they may continue to use it instead of converting all of their trains to DCC.

Steve

 

And I'm not saying a smart phone should not be a choice, it simply should not be the only choice if you really want to reach the model train market in a big way......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Bucksco on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:35 AM

Thinking about starting a "Positive" thread for those who are interested in using Bluetooth technology. Tired of reading why the old guard don't have a need for it.

Jack
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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:27 AM

Choops

You may not like smart phones, which is fine, but you have to understand that they are not going away.  A smart phone can do almost everything a home computer can do and more.  For a lot of people it has eliminated the need for a home computer.  You can read this forum on a smartphone.

Steve

Steve,

I personally don't care what a smartphone can or cannot do nowadays.  It doesn't change the interface issues that make BlueRail technology unappealing and unbeneficial to me in regards to operating and enjoying my layout.

Tom

 

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Posted by Choops on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:08 AM

Bob Schuknecht
 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

And still, Bluerail is a non starter for me because I don't have a smart phone, don't like touch screens, and want somthing I can use without looking at the throttle.

Sheldon

 

 

 

Amen!  I do not have a smart phone and would not buy one just to run trains.

 

I use NCE, I can control the train with the controler in my left hand without having to look at the buttons. I have my right hand free for throwing switches and uncoupling cars.

Someone asked ages, I am 57.

 

You may not like smart phones, which is fine, but you have to understand that they are not going away.  A smart phone can do almost everything a home computer can do and more.  For a lot of people it has eliminated the need for a home computer.  You can read this forum on a smartphone.

adding smartphone compatibility to the front of a train box at a hobby shop may interest a younger generation.  And those are the future model railroaders.  When they start there they may continue to use it instead of converting all of their trains to DCC.

Steve

Modeling Union Pacific between Cheyenne and Laramie in 1957 (roughly)
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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 8:43 AM

I've been asked to look into this thread to see if it's served its useful purpose and should be put down.

It appears to have gone off-topic a few times (Model T, anyone?), but as long as people are still interested in discussing it, I see no reason to pull the plug.

Just stay civil and on topic, please.

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Posted by Bob Schuknecht on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 8:31 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

And still, Bluerail is a non starter for me because I don't have a smart phone, don't like touch screens, and want somthing I can use without looking at the throttle.

Sheldon

 

Amen!  I do not have a smart phone and would not buy one just to run trains.

I use NCE, I can control the train with the controler in my left hand without having to look at the buttons. I have my right hand free for throwing switches and uncoupling cars.

Someone asked ages, I am 57.

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Posted by Choops on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 7:48 AM

There is more that goes into gas mileage than just the engine.  Cars are getting safer and safer these days.  As the crumple zones get bigger the cars get bigger (more drag)  we now have multiple airbags in cars (more weight) stronger a pillars (more weight). etc. etc.  To achieve the same mileage or better than a few years ago is not an easy task.

Im not a fan of the hybrid technologies complexity, I like to work on my own vehicles, but it does work well.

Steve

Modeling Union Pacific between Cheyenne and Laramie in 1957 (roughly)
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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 7:20 AM

Choops

43

Nothing wrong with a model T.  It's feul mileage is a poor reason to use to avoid new technologly.

Steve

 

 Ok then something more recent - we had cars 10-15 years ago that could achieve the same mileage as these gee whiz complicated as all get out hybrid cars. What's the benefit fo the complex hybnrid technology, other than it costs more? It doesn't help the environment compared to a car that gets the same mileage without the extra technology, in fact quite the opposite considering what goes in to making those battery packs and all the extra electronics. It's a solution in search of a problem.

                          --Randy

 


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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 7:11 AM

rrebell
 
Choops

Remember this is still new and there is sound available. It is only a matter of time before there are sound decoders.  I think the phone controler opens up a whole new area for customization with an easier interface.

Steve

 

 

 

Also they have already found a way to have multiple sounds going at once, it is still in beta mode though, but like said, they have just started, what other company has produced at least 10 upgrades in four months? Not fixes, upgrades?

 

 

 You keep talking liek this is a plus for the Bluerail side. It smacks to me of a product released way before it was ready. I don;t see the point in them releasing the system to market if it couldn;t do at LEAST what the existing systems can do, and add on from there. The fact that they have to constantly update just to reach the same feature set as the existing products tells me they didn;t think this through very well.

 Kind of like MRC and their first attempts at DCC. They did their own thing which was unlike every other system out there and ended up pushing a half dozen different systems, each of which was not compatible with the previous one, nor were any of them upgradable, until FINALLY figuring it out with the current system, which operates like the others and can be expanded from the basic system to the more advanced one without tossing the whole works in the trash.

 Most other DCC systems have been more or less the same since the beginning, adding additional functions and a few features along the way AS THE NMRA STANDARD EVOLVED. And that's the key. First came the standard, THEN came systems fitting it, so there was no need to release 10 updates in 2 months or whatever. The system specs were established (though in the case of DCC, not fully ratified) and THEN the hardware and software was built to support said standards.

                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 7:03 AM

Sir Madog
........civilized world has agreed to use the metric system.........

Civilized???!!!!Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 6:59 AM

... while the civilized world has agreed to use the metric system - over 100 years ago.

Micro-rant over =))

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Posted by "JaBear" on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 6:46 AM

A chap turned up at the club tonight with a Bachmann Bluerail app thingy in an F unit. All very good and well except that on a glitchy turnout it would stop and then have to be reacquired on the smart phone each time. OK so it was a faulty turnout but apart from perhaps a very slight hesitation the DCC equipped locos just powered on through.
So I will not be racing out to change anytime soon.
Now where did I put that clockwork key???
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
The milk and gas are sold by the gallon.
Yeah but why couldn’t you guys stick with the Imperial gallon!!! Very mini rant over.
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 6:27 AM

rrebell

 

 
Paul3

We DCC users have been hearing about the "new thing" that will replace DCC for decades.  In 2004 on the old Atlas Forum, someone told me that they would not be buying DCC because it was going to be replaced with a superior system within 5 years.

Since then, we've had Crest's Train Engineer, MTH's DCS, Ring Engineering's RailPro, and now Blue Rail.

I'm still waiting...

Paul A. Cutler III

 

 

 

The original Train Engineer is way older, I used it back at my old club about 25 years ago, in fact that is what I use now but with castoffs from another club.  Now I hear what you are saying about systems but this one is not as propiatery as the others in that they don't own Bluetooth, nor can they get a patent for using it to run trains. Kinda leaves the feild open for others.

 

 

The 10 channel Train Engineer I use was introduced in 1999, the original was introduced nearly 10 years before that. Of couse it was only effective "onboard" in large scale do to the size of the original recievers.

Yet, 25 years later, they are still making throttles, still being used by people in all scales, making HO size recievers for their latest version, and still one of the dominant throttles in large scale.

Which speaks to my original point in this thread, alternate products will not replace DC or DCC, but they will affect the market.

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 6:12 AM

tstage

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

The one board they make, I have no way to know if it will fit in any of my locos - 28 mm x 58 mm...

 

 

Roughly 1.1 x 2.3", Sheldon.  Larger than any TCS or NCE HO-scale decoders; probably on par with S- or O-scale - at this point.

Tom

[Edit: NCE's O-scale D408 decoder is nearly the same size: 1.2 x 2.3"  I'm sure the boards will eventually get smaller.  However, that's where things are at presently.]

 

Tom, thank you. I really do have metric ruler somewhere? But I will also admit that stuff still bugs me. I don't "think" in metric, I look at something like that and have no built in concept of its size. If you want to market something in the USA, were the predominant system of measurement is still english units, it might be a good idea to publish that info...........10ths of an inch I'm good with, I have rebuilt automobile engines........american ones.......

The signs on the highway are in miles and miles per hour.

The milk and gas are sold by the gallon.

The lumber I build with is sold by the foot.

The doctors nurse weighs me in pounds.

And the engine in my truck is 379 cubic inches (even though mainly described by FORD as 6.2 liters, FORD was smart enough to provide the conversion.....)

OK, mini rant over.......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:28 AM

To me, the only thing less exciting, less promising, about Bluerail is the Bluerail web site. There is little there informationally about the product, little there to convince me that it is the wave of the future, little there to even assure me that this is anyhing more than a backroom operation at this point.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 5:01 AM

I think Paul is nailing it!

We have seen so many ideas popping up, which, in the end, proved to be all show but no stay. All  arguments presented why DCC is supposedly moribund have not given any evidence of the patient actually dying, let alone being ill.

DCC is dead - long live DCC

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:21 AM

Paul3

We DCC users have been hearing about the "new thing" that will replace DCC for decades.  In 2004 on the old Atlas Forum, someone told me that they would not be buying DCC because it was going to be replaced with a superior system within 5 years.

Since then, we've had Crest's Train Engineer, MTH's DCS, Ring Engineering's RailPro, and now Blue Rail.

I'm still waiting...

Paul A. Cutler III

 

The original Train Engineer is way older, I used it back at my old club about 25 years ago, in fact that is what I use now but with castoffs from another club.  Now I hear what you are saying about systems but this one is not as propiatery as the others in that they don't own Bluetooth, nor can they get a patent for using it to run trains. Kinda leaves the feild open for others.

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:31 PM

of course, in case some would wish to continue the discussion:

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:19 PM

YesYesYes

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:18 PM

Hand and Plug Electricity shock - stock photo

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:16 PM

Pulling the Plug-Getting rid of large electric bills concept - stock vector

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:06 PM

Bucksco
I honestly think you are generalizing and stereotyping people. My 87 year old mother uses an iPad everyday to do her email and skype with me and is quite enthusiastic about it. As far as arrogance is concerned it is pretty arrogant to paint people young or old with such a broad brush....

... and you are taking it way too serious, mate!

Will someone please pull the plug on this sense- and useless discussion?

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, July 19, 2016 10:41 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

The one board they make, I have no way to know if it will fit in any of my locos - 28 mm x 58 mm...

Roughly 1.1 x 2.3", Sheldon.  Larger than any TCS or NCE HO-scale decoders; probably on par with S- or O-scale - at this point.

Tom

[Edit: NCE's O-scale D408 decoder is nearly the same size: 1.2 x 2.3"  I'm sure the boards will eventually get smaller.  However, that's where things are at presently.]

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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