Hi Elmer. Sorry for the late response. The busses are all 14 gauge. We twisted the wires closely together just to keep them out of the way when working under the benches. Seeing as we chose to go the suitcase connector route they weren't too tight to manage as they would have been if we'd soldered them.
I really appreciated all of your comments, suggestions, etc. Now that our wiring is 99.9% complete I can start cleaning up the room and maybe post something else. My friend "q." is going to post a link to a pic of my classification/division yard in the near future.
More test running over the next couple of days. I also need to install yard track off toggles or rotary switch in the near future.
Have a great remainder of your weekend,
Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Hi, yes, they're the mainline and classification or division yard's busses.
OK, I thought that was the case, but I wanted to make sure. I have a couple of comments, not meant to be derogatory or faulting your wiring in any way, but meant to be used as a learning experience for later use. Since things are currently working, I don't think you need to change anything at this point.1. Twisting is good. However, it doesn't need to be as tight as you did it to be effective. You have twice or three times as much as you need, but it's not going to hurt anything.2. Your buss wires look to be smaller than 14 gauge. I think I can tell by how tight the twist is. The larger wire can't be twisted as tight, even if it is stranded.I know you really can't tell wire size from photos, but I would guess that your bus is 18 gauge.
- So, on your layout, what is the longest bus wire distance from your circuit breakers?- And, what is your actual bus wire size?
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I followed the theory/practice of twisting the wires to (hopefully) eliminate RF interference.
We live in a late 1920s cottage with a lot of original wiring and my bass guitar amplifier often will pick up radio stations and similar behaviors have infrequently occurred with other things (can't remember what now. When I had a recording studio where the train room is now I had to be especially mindful of that.
Although with recent electronics (last decade or so) this has been less of a problem. I also use quality UPS, surge protectors but wanted to be sure with the twisted bus wires as it was so simple to do with an electric drill and my wiring mentor/buddy Q. pullin' the trigger.
Looks like his Bus.
Springfield PA
Capt. Grimek Wiring under the offending section of track, oriented to correspond to the above photo
Wiring under the offending section of track, oriented to correspond to the above photo
OK, I just gotta ask: What are the blue and white twisted wires the feeders are connected to?
To Capt. Grimek
To qantaqa
To all who contributed to this thread
Rich
Alton Junction
That's a piece of styrene strip (not metal) (below rail top level) temporarily placed in the gaps for testing and test running. Permanent ones to be installed pronto.
Things seem to run fine now. I'm afraid to say it's fixed for fear of jinxing things but logic and testing says it must be.
Thanks for your kind comments all along and sense of humor everyone. I haven't been able to sleep for the last week without having "another theory or idea" as you say, pop into my head.
I'm glad that you guys enjoyed the "process" and hung in there with/for me. I've learned alot but can't say it was fun...until now!
Having two brains/butts and benchwork climbers certainly does help. If nothing else misery loves company ;-)
Perhaps a celebratory limmerick is in order? We can get the last of the short(s) puns outta the way...?
The once was a feller from the isles
his DCC world full of trials
With his shorts in a bunch or t'was
bunches of shorts
nonetheless, they filled him with bile.
Through the 6 page (!) trial of fire
With help through the virtual wire
This lad met a group of great men
who's gift was advice and not ire
These brothers of traindom are sports
To them that's all out of sorts
Let's hope the lad's now out of shorts!
Cheers, Jim
There may be more with the Psxes and AR but these were taken with my friend's phone and he has to load 'em up at his place.
I'm TIRED! But oh so happy!!! Hope that lasts awhile!
Is that a piece of bare wire laying across the rails in the first pic?
I hear ya! I'm going to sleep well tomorrow; tonight I'll stay up and run trains!
Finally, photos to help(?), or at least to share...
The mis-wired section is the one shimmed up
Nothing like the first nights sleep after figuring out a problem. Nothing in the back of your mind waking you throughout the night.
High fives all around. This one's been fun, but sometimes there is just no substitute for boots on the ground, or maybe it's "butts under the benchwork."
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Sorry about the double post. Forgot to mention that we DID swap out the command station, power supply and isolated every PSX individually to each command station as part of the troubleshooting process.
My power supply checks out ok on AC scale. We multimetered every point in and out of every unit includiing the PSXes and AR, command station and at several points on the rail(s) with very little fluctuation.
All gaps are on BOTH rails.
Thanks again. I'll keep Chicago phone numbers on my speed dial!
Hi everyone. My buddy made it over (the original wiring guy) and we think we've located the problems and fixed them. There WAS (as you all knew) a feeder that was wired to the wrong bus.
A short section of track in the cross over from main line to the classification yard had been gapped in the middle (in the crossover). Every section of track has its own feeders, no matter how small.
This area is dense with connections so it was hard to spot at lst, visually. This crossover section was soldered to the main rails but wired to the class. yard's bus. It wasn't visually evident at lst because it didn't obviously cross from one buss to the other but above at the rails where the feeders are soldered to the rails.
Anyway we finally found it.
Psx: Overcurrent draw. We weren't daisy chained per se, we had followed the instructions from PSX using the power link connections. At no time was the track output of any PSX unit providing the input power to any other device, including the AR. (We assume that was what was meant by daisychaining)
We jumpered J7-3 to J7-4 to enable weak system boost as per the PSX directions. Problem seems to be solved.
It now powers up with 10 sound equipped locos on the tracks including the QSI equipped (non NMRA version) and the Big Boy.
If you'd like to ask my wiring guy qantaqa (screen name) at railwire.net for more concise answers than I'm presently capable of you can ask him for follow-ups.
I'm ASSUMING we're fixed for now and really can't thank ALL of you enough for helping me out for 5 pages! I WILL repay your kindnesses by continuing to get serious about learning more and hopefully SOME day being able to address these issues myself.
We've done one last follow up by putting 10 sound locos in just the class and that seemed to be maybe one too many for the PSXes but removing any one, things worked fine. Not just the Big Boy or QSI but other various locos.
So...we think we're "there"!
richhotrainA track diagram would surely help here. But, absent a track diagram, tell us this. How many PSX-AR units are installed on the layout, and where are they located?
based on my experience (as engineer) at work, having people explain their problems to me precisely, is usually enough to help them solve their problems by themselves.
i think that if the OP drew a diagram that identified all the track gaps, feed lines and the polarity on the rails, he may be able to identify the problem himself. If not, take a picture of the diagram and post it here.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
retsignalmtr Wth six pages on this topic, isn't there somebody living in his area that can go visit with him and help him out?
Wth six pages on this topic, isn't there somebody living in his area that can go visit with him and help him out?
No kidding!
I live in the Chicago area, but I am ready to jump into my car and start driving out there.
Of course, if I get there before anyone else, I am going to take out those PSX's and dismantle the wiring and start all over.
I live on an island with the nearest biggish town 20 miles away so I'll check our Radio Shack lst.
I'll head out in a few minutes in case anyone has anything vital to add beforehand.
Thanks.
With the wires disconnected from the command station you should see about a volt higher than the rated output. IE if is says 15vac you should read somewhere between 15 and 16 to 17 volts AC.
Radio shack has some good meters for cheap that are actually pretty good.
I personally prefer an Analog meter over digital for this type of application.
Capt. Grimek Yes the outlets were powered. I'm heading out buy my own meter to verify for myself. What's the minimum AC read out I should see?
Yes the outlets were powered. I'm heading out buy my own meter to verify for myself.
What's the minimum AC read out I should see?
The wall outlet? 110 - 120 volts AC
Something doesn't sound right for sure. The system shouldn't power up without the 515. Someone noted earlier did you verify that the 515 had power at the plug you're plugging into? Also make sure you're on the AC Scale
Capt. Grimek So Randy, I'm still stumped for now, because that's what I thought. I could order a new power supply seeing as 3 separate testers at 3 separate locations show it's dead with no output and have a spare for later if all else fails. Think it's worth doing today? The PS515 shouldn't power up AT ALL, if it's showing now output on a digital meter or 3, right? Thanks for your patience and continued help. I still haven't found anything out of place wiring wise now that I've tried removing the AR and the attendant daisy chaining. Thanks.
So Randy, I'm still stumped for now, because that's what I thought. I could order a new power supply seeing as 3 separate testers at 3 separate locations show it's dead with no output and have a spare for later if all else fails. Think it's worth doing today? The PS515 shouldn't power up AT ALL, if it's showing now output on a digital meter or 3, right? Thanks for your patience and continued help.
I still haven't found anything out of place wiring wise now that I've tried removing the AR and the attendant daisy chaining.
Before I'd sink anymore cash into hardware, I'd solve the original problem with the shorts. Something is messing with your system, especially if it fried your booster.
Hmm, but if is was the PS515 all along you should have seen the lights going nuts on the DCS when things shorted out - and EVERYTHING everywhere should have stopped.
THe Magnaforce supply works fine, that's what I have. Usually the same price. NCE has one that looks identical to the PS515 as well. They all work fine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Okay, I'll ask a basic question. You say there is no output from the PS515, which I believe is the command station power supply. Just out of curiosity, did anyone check that the outlet you have the PS515 plugged into is actually live? (I know you checked this, but I just had to ask)
The PS515 seems to be toast. No output.
Can the small power supply (12 volts) that goes to the plug in panel power up the system without the PS515? That's powering loco net only correct?
So...the Q. of the moment is why I'm able to power up the system and run until I short out a turn out or quarter test/short out. Would this explain the inadequate amount of power yet not allow the system to come on with certain locos?
How are things powering up at all? I had a car mechanic, a marine electronics guy and the Radio Shack guy all verify that there was no out put from the PS515.
I was of course, not able to test the PS515 under load. We used 3 different digital meters and testers so it's dead, I guess. So how AM I powering up the system and rebooting using the DCS 100?
Thanks. The wiring seems to all be ok. I disconnected the AR completely and didn't fix the problem(s).
I tried running the output wires from the last PSX-1 directly to the the track power distribution board.
(buss bar/euro bar) instead of to the AR daisy chained. No change. I may still be wrong due to my current "kindergarten" electrician status but THINK it IS the power supply for now.
Any powerful *pun intended" reason to go with a Magna Force over a Digi PS 515.
I'm surprised this one died after only a couple of years at most of very light use but "what do I know"?
Thanks guys. You have been truly awesome and I promise to "go to school" in the near future and learn better electrical trouble shooting and testing procedures if I can find a local mentor.