I am working on weathering this MEC wood side boxcar and would like to replace the trucks with appropriate Kadee plastic trucks. The trucks need to be plastic because I am running resistor wheelsets. I have never seen a truck design like this and am unsure what type of truck I should be searching for. Can anyone tell me what type of truck this is please?
- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH
Central Vermont Railroad
That looks like one of the early versions of cast sideframe trucks that used a piece of bar steel as a support undeneath the journal box.
I believe a common modeler's term for these trucks is "Andrews", but hopefully someone with a broader knowledge will give a better answer.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
B Rutherford I am working on weathering this MEC wood side boxcar and would like to replace the trucks with appropriate Kadee plastic trucks. The trucks need to be plastic because I am running resistor wheelsets. I have never seen a truck design like this and am unsure what type of truck I should be searching for. Can anyone tell me what type of truck this is please?
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
But if you care to have a look at the links in my third reply on this recent discussion there should be enough information to make up your own mind.
Looks exactly like the Andrews Coil Spring to me.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
From what I gather one of the "selling" features of the Andrews-type truck is that existing journal boxes from arch bar trucks that the railroads had on hand by the hundreds of thousands could be fitted into the cast steel side frame and save on costs.
8571004 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
8962 001 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
9291 003 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
Thank you everyone for your responses.
Bear - that guide is awesome, I have stashed away a copy for future reference. You were correct, the more I look at it - that does look like a kit built car. Now I feel like a heel, I tried to build a kit car and failed but now I have taken someone else's hard work and heavily weathered it :( I got the car on a $15 table at Amherst...
Certainly Andrews trucks would look appropriate under a single sheathed boxcar of that vintage particularly one with grab irons rather than a ladder on the right hand side of the car. Andrews trucks were permitted in interchange long after archbar trucks no longer were. Indeed even into the 1980s and beyond I was still seeing Andrews trucks on MOW cars including boxcars and in-house factory flatcars. I'd be surprised if they are still in use in 2023 but you see plenty at railroad museums.
There is no reason to feel like a heel. Someone's hard work and craftsmanship has been preserved. I suspect it was not his first attempt at building either, so don't compare his results to yours. I have cars that probably were assembled in the 1940s or even earlier by guys I never met -- and how many similarly small and delicate things of that vintage are still useful and valued today? Some I leave alone as historical artifacts; some I replace dated details with today's higher quality (e.g. airbrake details).
If the prior owner was modeling the year 1922 that car would have very modest if any weathering. If you model a later era of course it needs more weathering, and perhaps updating a K brake system to an AB brake system. The original builder would agree 100% with that decision. To weather is not to debase or undervalue the original work. It is done to be accurate and prototypical.
Dave Nelson
Thank you Dave. The pressure is on to make it look great!
My weathering job so far... critique and suggestions very welcome. Still need to do the roof, not sure if I should use the same black wash or show some silver galvanized and rust. Again thoughts appreciated. Still need to dullcoat and, I think add some grime. Should mention my layout is loosely late 50's early 60's
It's looking good Bill -- weathered and worn but not to excess, because after all it would be expected that a boxcar in actual service would be reasonably watertight.
Painting the outer facing surfaces of the wheels a grime colorwould help quite a bit.
I didn't realize from the initial photo that it still had its wood door. that would make Andrews trucks even more appropriate. Wood doors had a high mortality rate as they really took a beating.
If you look at older photos, freight cars of this vintage often had numerous chalk marks on the sides as yeard crews tried to organize the cars in a train, and bits of paper attached to the tack boards.
A further refinement in the weathering should you wish to go this far would be the vertical streaks on the ends where the car's wheels, or the wheels of whatever cars it was coupled to, would throw road grime and mud on the ends -- exactly to rail gauge of course. Not to excess, and often a contrasting color (such as tan mud) depending on where the car was rolling
dknelsonPainting the outer facing surfaces of the wheels a grime colorwould help quite a bit.
I had a bottle of Floquil black, with about 1/3 left in the bottle, so added some dark green (from a little more than half-full bottle) and the mixture looked pretty-much like grease and/or oil on the face of the wheels.
Of course, after adding some further light weathering, it didn't look as grimey...
I still use the green and black mixture, and will attempt to provide a photo that doesn't yet have it obliterated with dirt and dust.
Wayne
doctorwayne I still use the green and black mixture, and will attempt to provide a photo that doesn't yet have it obliterated with dirt and dust. Wayne
Attuvian1The location seems to be "BG" but I don't know what shop that would have been.
Beech Grove, Indiana, just outside Indianapolis. A large facility built by the Big Four and kept in use right into the Amtrak era.
Although acquired by the New York Central Railway (NYC) in 1906, the Big Four operated as an independent entity until it was finally subsumed by its owner in 1922. The shops remained in the hands of the NYC until it merged with the rival Pennsylvania Railroad in 1968 to form Penn Central, whose tenure was short-lived as it declared bankruptcy in 1970.
https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/digging-into-the-archives-a-brief-history-of-the-beech-grove-shops
Regards, Ed
gmpullman Attuvian1 The location seems to be "BG" but I don't know what shop that would have been. Although acquired by the New York Central Railway (NYC) in 1906, the Big Four operated as an independent entity until it was finally subsumed by its owner in 1922. The shops remained in the hands of the NYC until it merged with the rival Pennsylvania Railroad in 1968 to form Penn Central, whose tenure was short-lived as it declared bankruptcy in 1970. https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/digging-into-the-archives-a-brief-history-of-the-beech-grove-shops Regards, Ed
Attuvian1 The location seems to be "BG" but I don't know what shop that would have been.
If this computer gets any slower, I'll be dropping out. I just finished composing a reply which would have answered your question and would have shown two views of the trucks and wheels with the black & green paint mixture.
I looked through my Champ decals, and found that BG was a NYC re-weigh/re-pack station.I'll throw in the photos, anyway, as with the cars on the track, the wheels are often in-shadow like this...
...while a slightly tilted view shows it somewhat better (the original mixture was somewhat glossy, (which seemed more correct to me), so I'll probably add some Testors Gloss Cote to the mix.
Thanks all!
Dave, yes agreed about the wheels - the car is still waiting for a set of resistor wheels so the grime will be handled then (maybe tonight)
I like the idea of the grime streaks on the ends of the car to simulate dirt being thrown up from wheels - I will add that.
Awesome to see everyone's work. What a great hobby and a great forum...
With wooden side cars I get a variety of brown colored artist pecils and then run the pencils down the boards randomly to create some variation in the boards. There are all sorts of methods of weathering, try a lot of different types. Pastels, chalks, air brushing, washes, sponging, many different approaches.
Best advice I can offer for all of them is lighter is better. Go really easy on the weathering at first and as you get better and learn how to control the effects, then you can try heavier.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
This car started as an MDC kit, but all that was used was the sides of the car and the cast metal underbody...
I added the truss rods and brake gear, along with a built-up styrene centre-sill, a panel-style "metal" roof, and added scratchbuilt Hutchins ends...
...the car was built using a photo of a real one, which was one of almost 15,000 that were built for the Southern.
I've always liked wooden boxcars, but because my layout is set in the late '30s, not too many of them are clapped-out wrecks destined for the scrappers...
(click on the photos for a larger view)
...this one was based on a photo of a real one, which was destined to be re-built as an all-steel car...
doctorwayne Floquil black, with about 1/3 left in the bottle, so added some dark green (from a little more than half-full bottle) and the mixture looked pretty-much like grease and/or oil on the face of the wheels.
Interesting you should write that, Wayne, as some photos I have taken over the years of preserved or old work train wheels from the solid-bearing truck era do show that the accumulated oil/mud mix on the wheel faces did have the slightest drab green tinge to it.
I appreciate your comment, Dave.
Last night, I dumped some Testors Clear Gloss into the Floquil black and green mixture, as it originally did show some glossiness, which offered a more convincing look of oil and/or grease.
I'll grab a couple of cars and see if it looks a little better with the added gloss.
Looks like the sheen is off the Gloss, but I've at least got some pictures showing the greenish grease...(click on the photos for a larger image)
...and also remembered that the flash is another option to show hard-to-see details...
I'd suspect the 'green' color is an artifact of road dirt... which in any case would cover any 'film' of grease or oil on the wheel face.
What's much more likely from any sort of grease on the wheel is radial streaks -- Ed will have pictures, particularly of steam-locomotive drivers. One sort of streak comes from worn or damaged hub seals, as the grease dribbles down; another comes when blobs of grease get pulled centrifugally by wheel rotation.
I have personally scraped the gunk off wheel faces like this. In places it is about a half-inch or more thick:
Simplex Truck by Pete Piszczek, on Flickr
Journal Bearing Trucks Campo CA Nov 2004 by Pete Piszczek, on Flickr
Note how the oil-soaked dust cakes up considerably at the rim fillet where the tire meets the wheel face.
Friction bearings by W. Michel Kiteley, on Flickr