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Type of truck

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  • Member since
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  • From: Lancaster, NH
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Type of truck
Posted by B Rutherford on Monday, February 6, 2023 9:09 PM

I am working on weathering this MEC wood side boxcar and would like to replace the trucks with appropriate Kadee plastic trucks. The trucks need to be plastic because I am running resistor wheelsets. I have never seen a truck design like this and am unsure what type of truck I should be searching for. Can anyone tell me what type of truck this is please?

- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH

Central Vermont Railroad 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, February 6, 2023 10:06 PM

That looks like one of the early versions of cast sideframe trucks that used a piece of bar steel as a support undeneath the journal box.

I believe a common modeler's term for these trucks is "Andrews", but hopefully someone with a broader knowledge will give a better answer.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Attuvian1 on Monday, February 6, 2023 10:27 PM

B Rutherford

I am working on weathering this MEC wood side boxcar and would like to replace the trucks with appropriate Kadee plastic trucks. The trucks need to be plastic because I am running resistor wheelsets. I have never seen a truck design like this and am unsure what type of truck I should be searching for. Can anyone tell me what type of truck this is please?

 
Well, the shape of the side frame, the frame openings on either side of the spring window and the other minor features lead me to think its an Andrews truck.  BUT the photos that I have of actual Andrews trucks show a proportionally thin "stabilizer" (bolted on bar stock) joining the bottoms of the journal boxes to the lower third of the tapered or slanting portion of the side frames.  It's much thinner than the heavy stabilizer that's cast into the plastic frame on your box car.  The plastic version makes it look like this is an integrated part of the side frame itself and it wasn't for the prototypical Andrews.  An Andrews truck would be appropriate for older outside framed, single-sheathed boxcars.
 
In no way am I sure of this identification as there are a number of minor discrepancies (shape of the journal boxes, the area above the spring pocket, etc.).  What I'm relying on is the tendency for folks who produce the model versions to make adjustments.
 
I hope others will weigh in shortly.
 
Edit:  Kevin weighed in so shortly that he beat me to the punch! Laugh
 
BTW, just who manufactured your boxcar?  The air hose and wire grabs make me wonder if it was a kit or had details added later.
 
(Attuvian 1) John  
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Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, February 7, 2023 12:09 AM
I think, Bill, that Kevin deserves the prize, though I’d suggest that it may be more accurately, an “Andrews U section” truck, though a closer look at your model would help, well that’s my excuse anyway!!
 
But if you care to have a look at the links in my third reply on this recent discussion there should be enough information to make up your own mind.
 
 
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by crossthedog on Tuesday, February 7, 2023 12:17 AM

But if you care to have a look at the links in my third reply on this recent discussion there should be enough information to make up your own mind.

That's a really useful guide, Bear.

Looks exactly like the Andrews Coil Spring to me.

-Matt

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, February 7, 2023 5:14 AM

From what I gather one of the "selling" features of the Andrews-type truck is that existing journal boxes from arch bar trucks that the railroads had on hand by the hundreds of thousands could be fitted into the cast steel side frame and save on costs.

 8571004 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

 8962 001 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

 9291 003 by John W. Barriger III National Railroad Library, on Flickr

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by B Rutherford on Tuesday, February 7, 2023 7:40 AM

Thank you everyone for your responses.

Bear - that guide is awesome, I have stashed away a copy for future reference.  You were correct, the more I look at it - that does look like a kit built car.  Now I feel like a heel, I tried to build a kit car and failed but now I have taken someone else's hard work and heavily weathered it :(  I got the car on a $15 table at Amherst...

- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH

Central Vermont Railroad 

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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, February 7, 2023 11:00 AM

Certainly Andrews trucks would look appropriate under a single sheathed boxcar of that vintage particularly one with grab irons rather than a ladder on the right hand side of the car.  Andrews trucks were permitted in interchange long after archbar trucks no longer were.   Indeed even into the 1980s and beyond I was still seeing Andrews trucks on MOW cars including boxcars and in-house factory flatcars.  I'd be surprised if they are still in use in 2023 but you see plenty at railroad museums. 

There is no reason to feel like a heel.  Someone's hard work and craftsmanship has been preserved.  I suspect it was not his first attempt at building either, so don't compare his results to yours.  I have cars that probably were assembled in the 1940s or even earlier by guys I never met -- and how many similarly small and delicate things of that vintage are still useful and valued today?  Some I leave alone as historical artifacts; some I replace dated details with today's higher quality (e.g. airbrake details).  

If the prior owner was modeling the year 1922 that car would have very modest if any weathering.  If you model a later era of course it needs more weathering, and perhaps updating a K brake system to an AB brake system.  The original builder would agree 100% with that decision.  To weather is not to debase or undervalue the original work.  It is done to be accurate and prototypical.  

Dave Nelson

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Posted by B Rutherford on Tuesday, February 7, 2023 1:36 PM

Thank you Dave.  The pressure is on to make it look great! Big Smile

- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH

Central Vermont Railroad 

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Posted by B Rutherford on Tuesday, February 7, 2023 7:18 PM

My weathering job so far... critique and suggestions very welcome.  Still need to do the roof, not sure if I should use the same black wash or show some silver galvanized and rust. Again thoughts appreciated.  Still need to dullcoat and, I think add some grime. Should mention my layout is loosely late 50's early 60's

 

- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH

Central Vermont Railroad 

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Posted by "JaBear" on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 12:51 AM
Gidday Bill, I’m not sure if you’re aware of this site but here’s a link to some of the photos taken by Jack Delano. OK, so they’re WW2 vintage and cleanliness may not have been high on the Railroads priorities, and I’m certainly not discounting any of his photos, but I do find his colour photos most instructive!
 
 
One day I might get it right?? My homage to the late Randy Rinker.
 
RR by Bear, on Flickr
 
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 10:36 AM

It's looking good Bill -- weathered and worn but not to excess, because after all it would be expected that a boxcar in actual service would be reasonably watertight. 

Painting the outer facing surfaces of the wheels a grime colorwould help quite a bit. 

I didn't realize from the initial photo that it still had its wood door. that would make Andrews trucks even more appropriate.  Wood doors had a high mortality rate as they really took a beating.

If you look at older photos, freight cars of this vintage often had numerous chalk marks on the sides as yeard crews tried to organize the cars in a train, and bits of paper attached to the tack boards.  

A further refinement in the weathering should you wish to go this far would be the vertical streaks on the ends where the car's wheels, or the wheels of whatever cars it was coupled to, would throw road grime and mud on the ends -- exactly to rail gauge of course.  Not to excess, and often a contrasting color (such as tan mud) depending on where the car was rolling

Dave Nelson 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 12:15 PM

dknelson
Painting the outer facing surfaces of the wheels a grime colorwould help quite a bit.

I had a bottle of Floquil black, with about 1/3 left in the bottle, so added some dark green (from a little more than half-full bottle) and the mixture looked pretty-much like grease and/or oil on the face of the wheels.

Of course, after adding some further light weathering, it didn't look as grimey...

I still use the green and black mixture, and will attempt to provide a photo that doesn't yet have it obliterated with dirt and dust.

Wayne

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Posted by Attuvian1 on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 12:28 PM

doctorwayne

 

I still use the green and black mixture, and will attempt to provide a photo that doesn't yet have it obliterated with dirt and dust.

Wayne

 
Wayne,
 
Off Topic  I noted the reweigh information and the date on this MC boxcar.  The location seems to be "BG" but I don't know what shop that would have been.  If my eyes are skewed, "BC" might have been Battle Creek.  What say you?
 
Attuvian1 John
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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 1:27 PM

Attuvian1
The location seems to be "BG" but I don't know what shop that would have been.

Beech Grove, Indiana, just outside Indianapolis. A large facility built by the Big Four and kept in use right into the Amtrak era.

Although acquired by the New York Central Railway (NYC) in 1906, the Big Four operated as an independent entity until it was finally subsumed by its owner in 1922. The shops remained in the hands of the NYC until it merged with the rival Pennsylvania Railroad in 1968 to form Penn Central, whose tenure was short-lived as it declared bankruptcy in 1970.

https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/digging-into-the-archives-a-brief-history-of-the-beech-grove-shops

 

Regards, Ed

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Posted by Attuvian1 on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 1:34 PM

gmpullman
Attuvian1
The location seems to be "BG" but I don't know what shop that would have been.

Although acquired by the New York Central Railway (NYC) in 1906, the Big Four operated as an independent entity until it was finally subsumed by its owner in 1922. The shops remained in the hands of the NYC until it merged with the rival Pennsylvania Railroad in 1968 to form Penn Central, whose tenure was short-lived as it declared bankruptcy in 1970.

https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/digging-into-the-archives-a-brief-history-of-the-beech-grove-shops

 

Regards, Ed

 
Thanks, Ed. Geeked
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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 1:48 PM

If this computer gets any slower, I'll be dropping out.  I just finished composing a reply which would have answered your question and would have shown two views of the trucks and wheels with the black & green paint mixture.

I looked through my Champ decals, and found that BG was a NYC re-weigh/re-pack station.
I'll throw in the photos, anyway, as with the cars on the track, the wheels are often in-shadow like this...

...while a slightly tilted view shows it somewhat better (the original mixture was somewhat glossy, (which seemed more correct to me), so I'll probably add some Testors Gloss Cote to the mix.

Wayne

 

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Posted by B Rutherford on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 2:44 PM

Thanks all!  

Dave, yes agreed about the wheels - the car is still waiting for a set of resistor wheels so the grime will be handled then (maybe tonight)

I like the idea of the grime streaks on the ends of the car to simulate dirt being thrown up from wheels - I will add that.

Awesome to see everyone's work. What a great hobby and a great forum...

- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH

Central Vermont Railroad 

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 5:27 PM

With wooden side cars I get a variety of brown colored artist pecils and then run the pencils down the boards randomly to create some variation in the boards.  There are all sorts of methods of weathering, try a lot of different types.  Pastels, chalks, air brushing, washes, sponging, many different approaches.

Best advice I can offer for all of them is lighter is better.  Go really easy on the weathering at first and as you get better and learn how to control the effects, then you can try heavier.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 9:50 PM

This car started as an MDC kit, but all that was used was the sides of the car and the cast metal underbody...

I added the truss rods and brake gear, along with a built-up styrene centre-sill, a panel-style "metal" roof, and added scratchbuilt Hutchins ends...

...the car was built using a photo of a real one, which was one of almost 15,000 that were built for the Southern.

Wayne

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, February 8, 2023 10:20 PM

I've always liked wooden boxcars, but because my layout is set in the late '30s, not too many of them are clapped-out wrecks destined for the scrappers...

(click on the photos for a larger view)

...this one was based on a photo of a real one, which was destined to be re-built as an all-steel car...

Wayne

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, February 9, 2023 3:10 PM

doctorwayne
Floquil black, with about 1/3 left in the bottle, so added some dark green (from a little more than half-full bottle) and the mixture looked pretty-much like grease and/or oil on the face of the wheels.

Interesting you should write that, Wayne, as some photos I have taken over the years of preserved or old work train wheels from the solid-bearing truck era do show that the accumulated oil/mud mix on the wheel faces did have the slightest drab green tinge to it.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, February 10, 2023 2:54 PM

I appreciate your comment, Dave.

Last night, I dumped some Testors Clear Gloss into the Floquil black and green mixture, as it originally did show some glossiness, which offered a more convincing look of oil and/or grease. 

I'll grab a couple of cars and see if it looks a little better with the added gloss.

Wayne

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, February 10, 2023 5:49 PM

Looks like the sheen is off the Gloss, but I've at least got some pictures showing the greenish grease...(click on the photos for a larger image)

...and also remembered that the flash is another option to show hard-to-see details...

Wayne

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, February 11, 2023 3:11 PM

I'd suspect the 'green' color is an artifact of road dirt... which in any case would cover any 'film' of grease or oil on the wheel face.

What's much more likely from any sort of grease on the wheel is radial streaks -- Ed will have pictures, particularly of steam-locomotive drivers.  One sort of streak comes from worn or damaged hub seals, as the grease dribbles down; another comes when blobs of grease get pulled centrifugally by wheel rotation.

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, February 12, 2023 4:11 AM

I have personally scraped the gunk off wheel faces like this. In places it is about a half-inch or more thick:

 Simplex Truck by Pete Piszczek, on Flickr

 Journal Bearing Trucks Campo CA Nov 2004 by Pete Piszczek, on Flickr

Note how the oil-soaked dust cakes up considerably at the rim fillet where the tire meets the wheel face.

 Friction bearings by W. Michel Kiteley, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

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