Back when I started in the hobby, Kadee couplers had a straight pin extending from the bend in the knuckle. Uncoupling was accomplished by raising a diamond-shaped uncoupler which spread the pins of the mated couplers apart, opening the knuckles - no need to introduce slack, although there wasn't a delay feature, either. When the Magnematics were introduced, I thought the much more noticeable trips pins to be ugly, and snipped them off before installing the couplers.
Wayne
doctorwayne Remember, too, that the real ones don't have to force open the coupler knuckles (they couldn't anyway) to make a joint and that the cars aren't as free-rolling as many models are. That's one reason why I prefer heavier than recommended car weights and less free-rolling cars. As a bonus, it requires more locomotives to move a train - no need to make excuses for buying more motive power. Wayne
Remember, too, that the real ones don't have to force open the coupler knuckles (they couldn't anyway) to make a joint and that the cars aren't as free-rolling as many models are. That's one reason why I prefer heavier than recommended car weights and less free-rolling cars. As a bonus, it requires more locomotives to move a train - no need to make excuses for buying more motive power.
I agree, Wayne
More often than not when I get into a siding for a one or two car pickup I might wind up pushing the cars along without the knuckle opening enough to make the tie. Some of the "free rolling" trucks today are really free rolling!
Some of my older rolling stock is going on 30 years old and some of the Kadee couplers have taken on a rough surface, especially the ones that don't see much mileage, and they're even worse to tie on to.
Maybe a weight could be placed behind the cars when I'm making a pickup to act as a "hand brake" then remove it once the tie is made? I know there are designs out there for pins that pop up between the ties for holding a cut of cars on a grade so that might be an option, too.
Usually my 0-5-0 moves in for a little nudge until the couplers are made.
I noticed that the cars featured in the "3 Easy Car Detailing Projects" article on Pg. 40 of the Feb. MR have all the trip pins clipped off. I think I'm going that route myself... I can make a gondola load of scrap trip pins. I figure I'll have about a thousand!
Happy modeling, Ed
Mike has the right of it. Gentle is the course of the day when coupling. Car owners get very upset at having to pay for knuckles and pins, and nothing ruins the crews day like having to stop switching to replace one(or having to wait for a carman to come fix it). Cuts of cars don't roll a lot unless you hit them really hard. Sitting cars will have a full set on the air, and cars on the siding will have hand brakes set. Hump yards are a different story though.
When I was maybe 10 around 1990 or maybe the late 80s my dad drove us by the cnw yard in Waukegan, IL (I think cnw still existed then) and we stopped and parked because they were switching cars. He said "THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T PLAY ON THE TRACKS"! (Yes, he used all caps when he said it)...
The engine gathered speed pushing a car (uncoupled) then hit the brakes sending the car rolling into a line of several cars crashing the cars together. I remember hearing the car hit, then hear the next one hit the next car and the next until it got to the other end and bounced back like a slinky. One of the best days of my life. I remember thinking about that later and wondering how that was allowed.
KDs aren't "expensive" but you won't see that kind of operation on my layout. The price would get high quick. I love using the momentum and aim to kill the throttle just at the right second so the couplers "click" just as the loco comes to a stop. If you're short then you can just throttle up a tad and not smash. If you're long then you're probably not too long and probably won't smash. When non model railroaders run my trains it's the second thing I explain after the emergency stop. I try to convey the fragility. Then explain the emergency stop again.
T e d
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
mark,
Another factor would be whether the brakes are set or not. Usually they are, except in bowl shaped yards like a hump yard, where cars are kicked or dropped to roll to a stop. Other than that, standing cars may have either a handbrake or the air brakes holding the car. While some cars may be free to roll when being coupled to, in a lot of cases the brakes would seem to prevent such a long roll or shove after coupling without risking flatspots.
Maybe Brakie or someone else who's worked on the RR in train service can elaborate on what are more realistic coupling scenarios? It would seem to me such long rolls (a carlength or more after coupling) don't happen often.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
My comment came from watching videos of people operating their model railroads and doing switching along the route on You Tube. They not only back into the car they're picking up fairly strongly; but, continue backing for a car length or more after coupling on. I think these folks are attempting to show how well their layouts operate and the realistic operations they are attempting to portray. Possibly they have their momentum set too high and can't seem to remember they need to slow quicker than the momentum will allow them to do. I don't know. I didn't think cars being slammed into was good for the freight on board. If this where happening with real trains, I should think with the tonnage of a string of cars has, damage would be occurring.
gmpullman mlehman Another factor in problem couplings can be the air hoses on well detailed cars. Sometimes they hang down just right so it catches the tip of the bent trip pin, pushing the cars apart just before they couple. Bending the air hose to a different position solves this, but check the trip pin for correct angle and height, too. And how many times does the trip pin get snagged on the pilot of a trailing F-7 running backwards? I have a handfull of freight cars with the trip pins cut off so they can be the first car behind the power when this happens. Ed
mlehman Another factor in problem couplings can be the air hoses on well detailed cars. Sometimes they hang down just right so it catches the tip of the bent trip pin, pushing the cars apart just before they couple. Bending the air hose to a different position solves this, but check the trip pin for correct angle and height, too.
And how many times does the trip pin get snagged on the pilot of a trailing F-7 running backwards?
I have a handfull of freight cars with the trip pins cut off so they can be the first car behind the power when this happens.
Ed
A coupler with a longer shank on the trailing F unit works for me.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Ed,
I know exactly what you're talking about. I even started cutting the darn things off, then stopped. With the 714, you actually need the top part of the pin to help limit how far the upper and lower pieces move apart.
It's certainly an interesting question. My preference has now swung back to just keeping things adjusted -- at least until I talk myself into going with Sergent couplers.
Ya' know, Mike—I'm just about to the point where I might take the Xuron cutters to ALL my trip pins . I have done this on just about all of my passenger equipment and maybe 90% of my locomotives.
When I was building my layout I bought about a dozen Kadee electro-magnet uncouplers... they're all sitting in the same drawer I tossed them in in 1995!
With the diaphragms and pretty much fixed consists of my passenger trains I figured that I didn't need the trip pins anyway.
I'm amazed at how many photos I see of contest-winning rolling stock and there's that huge piece of bent boiler flue sticking out of the bottom of the coupler.
I'm not taking anything away from the wonderful engineering from the folks at Kadee but, for me, I don't think I'll ever be using the trip pins anytime soon. I have a few RIX magnetic uncouplers but can't remember when the last time was that I used one!
This would be a great poll thread, who uses the trip pins for uncoupling and would you miss them if you were to cut them off?
I have been following the work by PM Railfan and I think there is potential there.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/240200.aspx
and I have seen some Kadees with reversed trip pins (custom?) but I am beginning to have a Darwin moment and considering the consequences of what life would be like without trip pins.
Might be worth a discussion... Ed
This can be an even bigger problem with snowplows mounted on the pilot.
Here, the problem is a bit trickier, but still one that is basically an adjustment to specs issue. The prototype pilot skims just above the rails. I haven't measure one, but I'd guess no more than 6" or so. On our models, the pilot or plow generally needs to be up a little more, because the vertical curves in model track are more extreme than in 1:1.
The you have the trip pin on the coupler. It needs to be high enough to clear rails when passing through a switch and this part is usually pretty obvious. What's not so obvious is that the pin can't be too high. Partly, this is so the pin will be in the magnetic field of uncoupling magnets. But it's also so that the pin won't hit the pilot of a loco it's coupling too.
The typical model pilot will thus reject that pin passing underneath it if it's too low. There needs to be enough clearance between the rails and the pilot or plow so that the pin can slide underneath the pilot, instead of bouncing off it. My HOn3 pins (Kadee 714) are about a scale 2" in diameter. Allow for a little up and down, and your pilot or plow needs to be at least 6" above the rail heads, so typically a little more of a gap than on the prototype.
Thus, it's important to get coupler trip pins in spec, not too low, but also not too high. Check the pilots on locos that they're aren't too low, even though it might be strictly prototypical, as this would cause interference with the coupling process.
mlehmanAnother factor in problem couplings can be the air hoses on well detailed cars. Sometimes they hang down just right so it catches the tip of the bent trip pin, pushing the cars apart just before they couple. Bending the air hose to a different position solves this, but check the trip pin for correct angle and height, too.
JOHN BRUCE III I believe that on the prototype, the rules require a full stop about five feet before coupling. Then a slow shove into the coupler. There was a letter to the editor in MR not long ago about this.
I believe that on the prototype, the rules require a full stop about five feet before coupling. Then a slow shove into the coupler. There was a letter to the editor in MR not long ago about this.
This is true for occupied passenger equipment but not so much for freight unless the brakeman sees that an adjustment has to be made in the alignment of the coupler (not too often but sometimes.)
I've watched hump yards in operation or flat switching where cars are "kicked" and when the cars slam together so hard I thought for sure the knuckle would break.
"Cushion Underframe" was a development where the load would be protected by isolating the car body from the center sill so that the shock of coupling and train slack would be absorbed.
If your load was more of a "delicate" nature you could request that the freight agent specify "Do Not Hump" when your waybill was written up. Still no guarantee here though. I know of people who have shipped passenger cars in dead-head moves and the railroad would send it over the hump anyway... sign? I didn't see no stinkin' sign.
Happy switching, Ed
There are, however, situations where the coupling pin won't fall into place when the car is shoved in, and the crew has to try several times to get things to work. Then you might see a certain amount of deliberate banging, but this is a special case.
Mark,
I have a day-glo-lettered card that I picked up at a train show memorabilia dealer at a show one time. It reads "Coupling Speed 4 mph." I vaguely recall reading somewhere that even 4 mph can cuase damage with some loads, so even slower is preferable. Obviously a hopper full of coal will be less fragile than a boxcar full of TVs, so speed can vary on the 1:1, too.
The key to easy coupling is getting the couplers in spec -- and keeping them there. Couplers held with screws are subject to being loosened in use, so it is something that crops up. I tend to pull the cars involved off the layout and adjust back to spec, then add a dab of glue somewhere to keep the coupler box from loosening again.
Another factor in problem couplings can be the air hoses on well detailed cars. Sometimes they hang down just right so it catches the tip of the bent trip pin, pushing the cars apart just before they couple. Bending the air hose to a different position solves this, but check the trip pin for correct angle and height, too.
You're right. Rough train handling = damage claims. When I see that on a model railroad (video or in person) it feels like fingernails scratching on a chalk board.
Tom
Was it proper for the train crew to back into the cars being coupled on to with some speed/force? Videos I see, here at Model Railroader's videos of layouts in operation, seem to quite often show operators slam into cars with more force than I would think the prototype would use. I've never worked for the railroad. I have ridden Amtrak many miles and have never been jolted like I see model railroaders doing. Amtrak is passenger service, so maybe there is a difference. When I’m coupling on, I attempt to be gentle in the process, am I wrong?