"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Originally posted by AntonioFP45 Drephpe, Could you please post that link? I'm not familiar with it and would like to see the passenger equipment that you are referring to. Thanks![;)][:)] _______________________________________________________________ Happy to. This is one of several that shows the refurbed RDCs in Dallas. http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/images.html There are a lot more photos. Just go into google and put in "Trinity Railway Express" By the way, for those of you unfamiliar with the DFW Metroplex, TRE runs between Dallas and Fort Worth over the tracks of the former Burlington-Rock Island (B-RI) which hosted the Texas Zephyr, Sam Houston Zephyr, Texas Rocket, Twin Star Rocket and Frisco's Firefly and Black Gold. Reply Edit AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, March 22, 2004 12:23 PM [8D] Drephpe Thanks! These are very good shots of the RDC's. The stainless steel corrugation still has some "sheen" but the roof and other sections do show considerable fade and look duller from a distance as Bill Matthewson indicated. These pictures are very good guides. While I still intend to make my Budd Metroliners look fairly new with the Alclad II Chrome, I'll use a variation of the metalizer so that my Rivorossi passenger cars won't look so new. I'll continue to study the aircraft pictures on that Alclad site and experiment with some metalizer mixes to make weathering variations. Thanks again Drephpe and Bill! [swg][tup] "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 22, 2004 8:49 PM You're quite welcome. Reply Edit BR60103 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Guelph, Ont. 1,476 posts Posted by BR60103 on Monday, March 22, 2004 10:34 PM I've been off for a few weeks, but I'll pick up an old thread. The RDC demonstrator was sold to CNR. It originally had outside disk brakes and maybe inside frame trucks. By the time I was aware of it, CN had made it consistent with the rest of their fleet. Decades ago, there was a book "The Budd RDC in Canada" by Ray Corley. It was a good story, up to the mid 60s. (Ray died last year.) --David Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 28, 2004 9:50 PM Guess what--thanks to Buckeye Riveter post on CTT, here is the RDC1 demo and map of the tour: Please don't use for any commercial purposes! Also note--no outside disk brakes. Std drop equalizer trucks with outside roller bearings. This is a roller bearing mfr ad from 1950. Matches the images in the Budd ads. Would be interested in seeing the outside disk brakes and how they fit on the truck. Reply Edit ndbprr Member sinceSeptember 2002 7,486 posts Posted by ndbprr on Monday, March 29, 2004 3:26 PM Would be interested in seeing the outside disk brakes and how they fit on the truck. I suspect they will look like the Silverliner cars that the PRR bought in the 60's. Basically it is an outboard very shiny disk about half the hieght of the wheel with a caliper. Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Monday, March 29, 2004 5:26 PM Longest RDC run in North America was Western Pacific who opertaed a pair of RDC-2's separately between Oakland Pier and Salt Lake City tri-weekly. Meals were at station stops and forward compartment was for train crews traveling home or between bases after compartment had better seating and was for passengers. When service ended cars sold to NP. Longest RDC service north of U. S. border was on PGE later BCR between North Vancouver and Prince George. The RDC-3 units were actually RDC-2 units with galley to serve meals at passengers seats. Probably most spectacular train trip scenery wise in North America. Service discontinued a couple of years ago. Crews were among the most friendly anywhere and was even allowed to shoot pictures through open baggage door on several occasions. Reply M636C Member sinceJanuary 2002 4,612 posts Posted by M636C on Monday, March 29, 2004 11:52 PM Guys, The Australian "Commonwealth Railways" bought three RDC-1s in 1950, and ran them on shorter runs at the East end of the line, although before the introduction of diesel locomotives in late 1951, a couple of runs were made right across the desert, partly to show what could be done by cutting out the water stops needed by steam operation. A number of retired Reading gas-electric trailer cars were purchased particularly to run as trailers, and these RDC cars hauled trailers for most of their lives. Later, some former narrow gauge railcars were used as trailers, and some Belgian built steel boxcars were painted silver and had their brakes modified to work with the RDCs. They generally only hauled two trailers at a time as a maximum, and the grades weren't too bad. The cars were taken out of service in the 1990s after a bad crossing accident with a truck carrying steel reinforcing bars. One car was basically unrepairable. One is preserved in the National Railway Museum in Adelaide South Australia. Budd must have accepted that Australians were incorrigeable and the local licensee Commonwealth Engineering built a five car set for New South Wales with a purpose designed trailer! These cars were only 77 feet long, and can be represented by the Athearn models - see, there is a prototype for everything if you look hard enough! These cars were all cut up by an admiinistration that didn't understand that stainless steel doesn't deteriorate. They kept some corrosion ridden composite aluminium and steel cars because they were 13 years newer. There are still some bigger cars vaugely like RDCs running in Western Australia, called "Prospector", because of gold mining associations, not consciously named after the early Rio Grande cars. A few of these were trailers too! They are being replaced by new streamlined cars, without the humps for radiators, but basically the same idea, underfloor engines driving the inner axles! Peter Reply AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:10 AM M636C Were these the same type of cars that were used on an Austrailian railcar train called the Flying Fish? I saw a picture of this train back in the late 70s and thought the stainless steel cars on it were very attractive. The styling was similar but not exact as the RDC. I can't remember if the lead car was rail diesel or used overhead electric power. This was a very shiny, nice looking passenger train. [:)][:D][8)] "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply M636C Member sinceJanuary 2002 4,612 posts Posted by M636C on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:33 PM Antonio, The train that was called "The Fish" was an eight car set of electric cars, with cabs in one end of the motor car only, so they ran as motor/trailer/trailer/motor. The car bodies were built under licence from Budd, as were many other cars including the "Indian Pacific" and "The Ghan" which run from East to West and South to North coasts (respectively). These electric cars worked at 1500 volts DC (from overhead) and had four 190 HP motors on each power car. These trains ran most of the passenger services on the line West of Sydney. The name "Fish" dated back to the early days of the railway, and was the nickname of the driver (whose name was Heron, a bird that eats fish). The use of the train name finally died out in about 1970. The train was a commuter train with reserved seats, and had a really consistent set of passengers. I think the growth of traffic meant that seat reservation was eliminated, and more (unnamed) trains were run. Present trains are stainless steel double deck cars, somewhat similar to Bombardier cars, but with entrances above the trucks for high level platfoms. The single deck cars continued to be used until about five years ago, and many are in museums, with I think one set of four cars in (electric) working order. The others are hauled by locomotives when required. They were identified by small steel plates on the ends of the four car sets, which carried the letter "U" and a set number (up to 12). Some fans called them "U-boats" (there were no GE locomotives to confuse anyone). They were not airconditioned but could run at more than 70 mph, and as kids we enjoyed riding on them with the windows open (at least in fine weather). The movie "The Matrix" used two of these cars as the subway train, with the lead car modified to look more like a New York City train. These cars had hinged end doors, and the modified car was fitted with sliding doors in the centre for the movie. Some scenes were in a movie set with real track (but no wires) through it, and others in Sydney underground stations (without trains). If you watch the movie carefully enough, you can see that the second car has no centre door. The final scene in the third movie was set in a park in Sydney, with the sun rising in the West, (I don't know how they did that, but it wasn't hard by their standards) and computer generated buildings hiding the Harbour Bridge, Opera House and similar items not generic enough. The Australian Budd RDC cars were very similar in appearance to the RDC-1, but were shorter and lower in height. The only real difference in appearance was that they had corridor connection diaphragms on each end. The trailer car, which had a food bar, had a smaller "hump" since it only needed radiators for a generator set. The Athearn cars are well liked for being about the right length, although they are a bit too high. Our cars didn't have the "fluting" extending around the ends, either, which the Athearn cars have. Peter Reply AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Thursday, April 1, 2004 10:13 AM M636C Thanks! Great info. While my primary interest is American railroading I've always had a curiosity about Austrailian railroading. I've seen two PBS specials that covered passenger operations in Australia, very impressive. My favorite one was of the long passenger train run by the Indian Pacific. One one stretch the train's locomotives were EMD "E" units, though I think in Austrailia EMD locomotives use different designations. Its good to know that Budd has built products that have lasted a long time and can be found around the world. Cheers to you! "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 1, 2004 1:52 PM There was a feature about Budd cars operating in South America in Continental Modeller magazine recently. Some were being used as normal passenger cars (demotored), some had had extra non-standard diaphragms added to the outer ends, and the was even a batch of special variants for narrow-gauge work - these had inside-bearing trucks, round-ended side windows, and no "hump" on the roof - the radiators were relocated. Sadly I can't remember precisely where these were operating and cannot find the original article at the moment - If I come across it I'll post some more information on these. Reply Edit M636C Member sinceJanuary 2002 4,612 posts Posted by M636C on Saturday, April 3, 2004 6:39 AM Guys, There's a good book, called "Budd Car, The RDC Story" by Chuck Crouse, published by Weekend Chief, which covers exports as well as US RDCs. It gets a little confused by some Australian non-Budd copies, but is otherwise pretty good. The cars in South America were delivered to Brazil, according to this book.. It describes four standard RDC-1s (well, relatively standard, they were 5'3" gauge) as working between Rio and Sao Paulo on the Central Railway. There were also 19 cars for metre gauge, 61 feet long but otherwise standard "Pioneer III" cars, like diesel powered shortened "Silverliners". These were apparently spread over various different systems in Brazil. To address the EMD cab units in Australia mentioned earlier, these were mainly model A-16C, a sort of SD-9 with a body like an E unit (much like UP's E units with GP38-2 equipment, except the Australian units were mainly C-C, bit with the first 11 units being A-16A, with A1A-A1A trucks. There were 17 units built with SD-40 equipment. These were vaguely like an SDP40F (or F40C) fitted with an E-9 cab, and a reasonably neat fairing matching the curved cab roof to the angled engine cowl. These (except for one wrecked) are still in service in Genessee & Wyoming orange and black. Peter Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 4, 2004 3:44 AM If you're not aware of this, you may refer to a two-page article about RDC's in Railroad Model Craftsman (July,2001 pgs 48-49). In that article they mentioned an RDC-9, described as a coach w/ but one engine, not two and without controls. Also, it described a B&O name train: "Daylight Speedliner", which was a three car consist including an RDC-2 with a kitchen and 24-seat dining section and a bar in front of 24 coach seats. It also mentions that some are still running in Cuba, at least at the time the article appeared, some as powered units and some as unpowered coaches. It didn't clarify whether powered RDCs pulled unpowered RDCs as trailers, or whether the unpowered units were pulled as coaches behind something else. The article is a short read but a good one. Reply Edit AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, April 6, 2004 5:37 PM M636C Thanks for the info. [;)][:)] I saw the locomotives that you mentioned that slightly resemble SDP40fs with E unit style carbody. Saw one on the same PBS special that I mentioned earlier that covered an Indian Pacific passenger train. It was a single, green colored unit pulling a streamlined passenger train. There were video shots in the cab with the engineer (called the driver) operating the locomotive from the left side. Cheers![:D][8D][:)] "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 8, 2004 10:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by passengerfan Longest RDC run in North America was Western Pacific who opertaed a pair of RDC-2's separately between Oakland Pier and Salt Lake City tri-weekly. Meals were at station stops and forward compartment was for train crews traveling home or between bases after compartment had better seating and was for passengers. When service ended cars sold to NP. Longest RDC service north of U. S. border was on PGE later BCR between North Vancouver and Prince George. The RDC-3 units were actually RDC-2 units with galley to serve meals at passengers seats. Probably most spectacular train trip scenery wise in North America. Service discontinued a couple of years ago. Crews were among the most friendly anywhere and was even allowed to shoot pictures through open baggage door on several occasions. THE WP RDC ran due to Passes not accepted on the California Zeypher and the Train was losing Money DOGGY GO CUBS Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 11, 2004 8:28 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe RE: SPV's and ML trolley cars. Both are off the line, to my knowledge, and not a moment too soon, as they were both dogs. Ask any ATK maintenance person who had to mess with them. Those ML's may have looked sleek, but they only blew by at 110 because ATK had to assign an on-board electrician to each train to keep them running, and don't ask them to run in the snow, because the cooling air intakes and resistor grids were under the cars and would clog, leaving them dead and (poetic justice!) they'd have to be hauled in by a G! That's why they got reshopped and the grids put on top. Another interesting tidbit--the pans were aerodynamic, of course, but where a conventional train would have one or maybe 2 up, the MLs, being EMUs, had to have one up for each paired carset. If the train got any longer than about 3, the slipstream turbulence from the forward pans would cause the pans on the rear cars to gallop on and off the wire, playing havoc with the traction motors and creating a psychedelic ride for the passengers. Hence AEM7's hauling Amcans on the NEC spine ASAP and the trolleys relegated to the Harrisburg line where they could lope along and not see as many picky passengers. The SPVs were owned by ConnDOT and to my knowledge have been replaced by a locomotive hauled trainset. I seem to recall at least one fire, the exhaust leaked into the cabin, the ride was horrendous, etc. Can someone confirm, I think they may have been de-engined like MBTA did to some of their RDCs and turned into trailers. The RDCs were also genuine maintenance headaches until the Canadians rebuilt them, which helped a lot but did not completely solve the problem, although my old friend Jack Humbert (nee of the Reading, B&O and IC) swore by them when he had them in commute service in Philly and Baltimore. Dallas/Ft Worth (Trinity Railway Express, jointly owned by DART and The T) runs re-engined, re-transmissioned RDCs bought from Canada, MU-ed routinely in trains, but with no trailer cars. They were gutted and are quite nice inside. Here's one of several available links: http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/images.html They are also running bilevels between Dallas and Fort Worth, accessible by free shuttle from DFW Airport. And if it's still running this week (you Canadians help me out here) the E&N on Vancouver Island (VIA) ran a pair of RDC-1's between Victoria and Courtenay ( I think now just Nanaimo)--there has been quite a controversy over this line, with Rail America on again-off again; the last I saw, back on with the intervention of a shipper. It's a beautiful trip, although the lack of accommodations made it decidedly third-world, but I never could understand why they locked the doors between the two cars, even though both were occupied. I'll always be grateful to the conductor and brakeman who held the train for my then-young son and me at Courtenay so we could run to a store several blocks away and get some food and drinks (there wasn't even water on the train). B&O ran an all-RDC consist called the "Daylight Speedliner" in the late 50's and early 60's as a mainline train replacement. This train even had an RDC adapted as a food service car. They wound up in commute service (I rode one in 1966 between Pittsburgh and McKeesport) with the train name plates still on the equipment. Definitely one-of-a-kind. Hope this info is useful. Happy hunting. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 11, 2004 8:34 AM My grandfather was an engineer on one of the "Daylight Speedliners" in the late 50's and early 60's and I got to ride with him sometimes and have fond, albeit dim, memories of them. I've been searching for a few years now to get information and a picture of one. Your one paragraph gave me more information than I've been able to get so far and it's leading me to some good sources. Any suggestions as to where I can get a photo of one? I've tried all the usual - B&O, local historical, newspapers, etc. - but no luck so far. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 11, 2004 11:35 AM When did Amtrak's last RDC run? DOGGY Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 12, 2004 5:41 PM christmasbaby49-- I'm surprised the B&O hist society can't help. I know I've seen a photo of the entire train somewhere, but I can't place where, and I'm on the road again...(sorry, Willie). If I think of the source, I'll be glad to post it. Somebody else out there---can you help him????? Reply Edit AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:59 AM Doggy, I could be mistaken but it was sometime between 1980-82, after the SPV 2000s were built to replace the RDCs running on Amtrak. (SPV 2000 was supposed to stand for : Self Propelled Vehicle suitable to run through the year 2000). Turns out though that the RDCs were the better railcars (no surprises here). It's so ironic that they were built by the same company. It's easy to see Budd's idea: [;)] Use an available platform, alter it as needed, make it attractive and customers will buy! Basically, Budd took the Metroliner and powered it with Detroit Diesel truck engines. The "Catch" was that the metroliner body was not originally designed for this, hence the vibration, noise, cramped access for mechanics, etc. [|(] [B)][:p] I'm only "assuming" as Budd was able to succeed in taking the Metroliner shell, altering it to become the lightweight "Amfleet" car seen today. This venture was successful. [:)][:p] I've always disliked Amfleet cars though because they are "too light" and bounce you around if track conditions are on the "rough side". The RDCs and Heritage Fleet cars, with their well built trucks, had much better riding qualities than Amfleet cars. The original Metroliners themeselves, however, had decent riding qualities as they were heavier and rode on high speed trucks. [swg][tup] "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:15 PM DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINERS were three car Budd RDC consists Each consist was lead by a special RDC-2 with a larger than normal Baggage Compartment that contained Kitchen space as well. To the rear of the baggage/Kitchen was a 24-seat dining area with three tables for four on either side of the center aisle. To the rear of the dining area was seating for 24 in reclining seats. These two special RDC-2s were numbered 1960 and 1961. The four trailing RDC-1's were 1908,1909,1910 and 1911 each seated 89 in reclining seats not standard RDC flipover back seating. One RDC-2 and two RDC-1s comprised the DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINER consists. The new trains entered service for the B&O between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia 434 miles daily beginning October28, 1956 and the final run was June 25, 1958 after that date the DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINER was a Pittsburgh - Baltimore run of only 335 miles in 6 hours 50 minutes with the trains final run taking place January 21, 1963.Hope this helps with the DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINER questions. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 16, 2004 9:11 PM FYI -- 'Trainworld' has a super deal on Proto !000 Budd RDCs; it's been running in MR for awhile but perhaps you didb't notice. RDC-1s for $29.99, and RDC-2s and RDC-3s for $19.99 each. .Also, if you're interested in gas electrics, they have the Walthers' 60 foot EMC on clearance for $21.99. Your choice of roadnames on both,incl 'undec' on RDCs. Haven't run them yet but both look very good. Very pleased w/ 'Trainworld's' handling of this order (and every order I have ever placed w/ them). Reply Edit AntonioFP45 Member sinceDecember 2003 From: Good ol' USA 9,642 posts Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:21 PM In my search for a truck motor for my HO Metroliner repowering project, someone had suggested the "Spectrum Gas Electric". What is the quality like on the Walther's EMC. Does it run reeasonably quiet and smooth? Thanks! "I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!" Reply 1234 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
--David
QUOTE: Originally posted by passengerfan Longest RDC run in North America was Western Pacific who opertaed a pair of RDC-2's separately between Oakland Pier and Salt Lake City tri-weekly. Meals were at station stops and forward compartment was for train crews traveling home or between bases after compartment had better seating and was for passengers. When service ended cars sold to NP. Longest RDC service north of U. S. border was on PGE later BCR between North Vancouver and Prince George. The RDC-3 units were actually RDC-2 units with galley to serve meals at passengers seats. Probably most spectacular train trip scenery wise in North America. Service discontinued a couple of years ago. Crews were among the most friendly anywhere and was even allowed to shoot pictures through open baggage door on several occasions.
QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe RE: SPV's and ML trolley cars. Both are off the line, to my knowledge, and not a moment too soon, as they were both dogs. Ask any ATK maintenance person who had to mess with them. Those ML's may have looked sleek, but they only blew by at 110 because ATK had to assign an on-board electrician to each train to keep them running, and don't ask them to run in the snow, because the cooling air intakes and resistor grids were under the cars and would clog, leaving them dead and (poetic justice!) they'd have to be hauled in by a G! That's why they got reshopped and the grids put on top. Another interesting tidbit--the pans were aerodynamic, of course, but where a conventional train would have one or maybe 2 up, the MLs, being EMUs, had to have one up for each paired carset. If the train got any longer than about 3, the slipstream turbulence from the forward pans would cause the pans on the rear cars to gallop on and off the wire, playing havoc with the traction motors and creating a psychedelic ride for the passengers. Hence AEM7's hauling Amcans on the NEC spine ASAP and the trolleys relegated to the Harrisburg line where they could lope along and not see as many picky passengers. The SPVs were owned by ConnDOT and to my knowledge have been replaced by a locomotive hauled trainset. I seem to recall at least one fire, the exhaust leaked into the cabin, the ride was horrendous, etc. Can someone confirm, I think they may have been de-engined like MBTA did to some of their RDCs and turned into trailers. The RDCs were also genuine maintenance headaches until the Canadians rebuilt them, which helped a lot but did not completely solve the problem, although my old friend Jack Humbert (nee of the Reading, B&O and IC) swore by them when he had them in commute service in Philly and Baltimore. Dallas/Ft Worth (Trinity Railway Express, jointly owned by DART and The T) runs re-engined, re-transmissioned RDCs bought from Canada, MU-ed routinely in trains, but with no trailer cars. They were gutted and are quite nice inside. Here's one of several available links: http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/images.html They are also running bilevels between Dallas and Fort Worth, accessible by free shuttle from DFW Airport. And if it's still running this week (you Canadians help me out here) the E&N on Vancouver Island (VIA) ran a pair of RDC-1's between Victoria and Courtenay ( I think now just Nanaimo)--there has been quite a controversy over this line, with Rail America on again-off again; the last I saw, back on with the intervention of a shipper. It's a beautiful trip, although the lack of accommodations made it decidedly third-world, but I never could understand why they locked the doors between the two cars, even though both were occupied. I'll always be grateful to the conductor and brakeman who held the train for my then-young son and me at Courtenay so we could run to a store several blocks away and get some food and drinks (there wasn't even water on the train). B&O ran an all-RDC consist called the "Daylight Speedliner" in the late 50's and early 60's as a mainline train replacement. This train even had an RDC adapted as a food service car. They wound up in commute service (I rode one in 1966 between Pittsburgh and McKeesport) with the train name plates still on the equipment. Definitely one-of-a-kind. Hope this info is useful. Happy hunting.