RDC passenger consists

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

[:)] I recently puchased a brand new Proto New Haven RDC (HO scale) at a model train show for only $45. My expectations were at [%-)]best "mediocre". I was very surprised at how heavy it is, beautifully detailed, and how smoothly it runs. Originally I purchased this unit to "cannibalize[dinner] the truck motor" in order to repower one of my Bachmann Metroliner cars (no longer made) which I'm repainting into Penn Central along with 3 other Metroliner cars. [^] I've decided to keep the RDC intact and just purchase a NWSL truck motor instead for the Metroliner.[8D]

Often times when we see pictures of RDC trains they're run either as single units or in multiple units.

Question: Do any of you know if any railroads that ran or still run RDCs had them pull non-dieselized passenger cars? While horsepower was not very high, it would seem reasonable that one or two RDCs could pull a couple of cars if passenger demand put the railroad in a pinch.

Thanks.
[8)][:D]

I hope this isn't a duplication...
The New Haven , under Buck Dumaine, instituted a program of using old "American Flyer" coaches, painted silver , as a trailer between teo RDCs. Unfortunately, the Budd Co.tpitched a fit and threatened to void the cars' warranties if the New Haven didn't cease and desist(they did, BTW...).
Penn Central also did something similar..... they coupled RDCs to ACMUs.....the idea being that when the trains reached the end of third rail territory, the RDC would continue on its merry way with little inconvience to the riding public. Again, someone , either Budd Co. or the MU manufacturer squawked, and the program ended.

[brokemoto]

There are photographs of the B&O Daylight Speedliners in the B&O passenger book, second volume subtitled 'Route of the Capitol Limited'. Some of these cars wound up in Washington and Baltimore commuter service after the B&O discontinued the Daylight Speedliner. In its early days, the Daylight Speedliner actually made money. A B&O Manager thought of this after a Washington Area chapter of the NRHS had asked for a fan trip. THe Manager came up with the idea of running a train made up of RDCs over a long distance. The experiment worked and thus was born the Daylight Speedliner.

The Louie/Chessie Budd cars are a curious pair. One was actually the RDC-4, mail and baggage. The other one was a baggage car and had school bus seats in the RPO compartment for passengers.

CRI&P passenger trains are modeller's dreams. The railroad would run the RDC in consist for as far as the complete train went. The RDC would complete the less patronised part of the trip. There is a photograph, taken in Kansas, of a CRI&P RDC towing a LW boat tailed observation car that the CRI&P had turned into a baggage/passenger combination. The American Tourister, the REA and the mail got excellent views of the Kansas plains.

For years in N scale we had to suffer with the unreliable C-Cs. Kato came out with them, but, typical for Kato, its road name selection was not the best. They ignored the B&M which had the largest fleet of them (125) and the B&O which only had seventeen originally (they did buy some of ATSF's used), but ran them for a long time and worked them hard. Kato ignored PRSL; granted, there may not be many PRSL modellers in N scale, but theere are Reading Company and CNJ modellers that might have been interested. These were a flop for Kato, so we in N scale will likely not get any more. A shame. You can not get appropriate decls for these in B&O. If I could, I would just do my own.

[wjstix]

I picked up an RDC-3 a while back, liked it because it was the same type the DM&IR used in the fifties/early sixties, but I decorated it for my free-lance road. I liked it enough that recently I added a low-cost Soundtraxx generic diesel sound unit in it - with room inside for a baffled 1" speaker it sounds quite nice!!

Minneapolis and St.Louis bought an RDC early on, and against GM's warnings used it to pull a streamlined passenger car. The RDC didn't last very long, think as a couple people said the transmission failed. So M-StL used an old green doodlebug to pull their stainless steel Budd passenger coach on branchline trains !!

[David_Telesha]

The New Haven made full use of its large fleet of RDC's.

Firstly, there really is no set limit to MUing them, so a long (2+) consist is not out of the norm.

Around 1953 the New Haven converted several 1930's Pullman-Bradley "American Flyer" passenger cars into RDC trailers. These trailers were three 92 seat coaches from 1938, cars 8367-8369 to be exact, and one P-B "American Flyer" former Grill Car coach conversion from 1952 - now coach 8370. The trailer conversion consisted of painting the whole car silver, with a black roof and standard NH 5.5in lettering in black to match the RDC's. The NH used these in conjuntion with the RDC's until Budd caught wind and threatened to void the warranties. The practice ended.

During winter months specifically RDC consists were sometimes locomotive hauled - a RS-3 would do the honors on the Berkshire or Naugatuck lines (most of the time), and I've seen PA-1's doing the same on Providence locals although it would not be out of the question for any passenger or dual service unit to be used. There is a shot, although I think from during the summer for some reason in TJ McNamara's NH Trackside book, I believe, of a PA-1 hauling two RDC's. During the winter this was done because of ice and snow build up, including at crossings - the locomotives additional weight was needed to keep the train on the tracks and break through the wintery build up.

Here is the roster of New Haven owned Budd products I put together:

BUDD RDC

89-seat RDC-1
#20-27
4/1952-5/1952

89-seat RDC-1
#28-48
1/1953-4/1953

70-seat RDC-2
#120-121
9/1952

49-seat RDC-3
#125-127
1/1953

49-seat RDC-3
#128-130
5/1953

RDC-4
#135-137
5/1953-6/1953

60-seat RDC ROGER WILLIAMS
140-141
2/1957

76-seat ROGER WILLIAMS intermediate coach
160-163
2/1957

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I believe that Rock Island's RDC's were included in locomotive-hauled consists south out of Kansas City and operated on their own south of El Reno as the through coach on the same schedule.
NYC included RDC's in locomotive-hauled suburban trains south of Croton-Harmon and White Plains, operating on their own north of those points.
In both cases, the RDC's had to keep their engines running while part of the locomotive-hauled trains to keep the anti-wheel-slide devices activated.

[AztecEagle]

The Trinity Railway Express Commuter Service Between Fort Worth and Dallas Still Uses RDCs In Commuter Service Between Their Namesake Cities.I Saw A SPV2000 About Nine Years Ago On The Former Espee(Now UP)"Sunset Route" Between Schulenburg and Flatonia,Texas.it Was In The Consist Of A Freight.

[cuyama]

A useful on-line RDC reference:
http://www.budd-rdc.org/

Edit -- I apologize if this was referenced in the preceding array of posts.

[siberianmo]

[2c] On the subject:

In reading thru the 6 pages of informative input, mine is simply to reiterate a few points:

(1) Budd never intended for the RDC to pull non-powered cars. Of course, once a receiving railroad purchased them, they did what they pleased. Warranty issues ensued. This is covered quite well in RDC The Budd Rail Diesel Car by Donald Duke and Edmund Keilty. A trial test by the Chicago & Eastern Illinois railroad tried to pull a non-powered car and wound up with an overheated torque converter (fluid nearly boiled). The car was designed to pull itself and only that.

(2) Trinity Rail Express (TRE) in Dallas, part of the DART network, has 13 RDC's in their inventory - all purchased from VIA Rail in 1996 and refurbished from frame up in the Montreal shops. Great job. The RDC's arrived in Dallas in 1997. (I recently rode in the cab of one of those RDC's for a 40 mile round trip to Union Station and return ... wonderful experience.) Those RDC's had been used on the runs between Halifax, Nova Scotia and Yarmouht (south) - Sydney (north) until being layed up in 1990 when those routes were discontinued. Trinity perhaps has the largest operating fleet of RDC's, anywhere.

(3) Vancouver Island still has RDC's running between Victoria and Courtenay - VIA Rail operates them and the line is referred to as The Malahat. It's a rather austere experience - but does provide the RDC fix for those who appreciate these kinds of things.

(4) The now-defunct BC Rail operation in British Columbia ran some great RDC consists (up to 5) from North Vancouver to Prince George. Wonderful scenery and really great cars. Those RDC's were outfitted to provide much-better-than-airline-food service to the passengers at their seats. The fleet consisted of RDC-1's and 3's, with the food preparation area being in the 3's. Some of the 1's had small snack bars included. Sad day when CN bought 'em out and the line was discontinued.

Really enjoyed the conversation ......... as I'm an RDC fan, real and model.

[Anonymous]

I have a question, I am beginning to do research on the ICG and got lucky finding this sight...so when you said that OI Jack humbert of the ICC or ICG or whatever was NEE...was he ever the senior vice president of the ICG because that is what I heard or I could be wrong, I found someone who had an old official guide but he couldn't find it.
The last update was that when he left he was VP of the Mechanical department, How do I get official research or since you know him personally what was the correct title. Who was Senior VP of the ICG back in the day and what does NEE mean? You sound like an expert so maybe you have an interesting history lesson we could learn from.

[BR60103]

Literally, "nee" is the French word for "born" referring to a feminine object. It is normally used in birth/death announcements where a woman's married name is different than her maiden name.

[Anonymous]

Actually "Nee" means origionally. If you see the word nee in the list of owners, that designates the company that purchased the equipment from the builder.

[Anonymous]

Jack was with ICG as well. "Nee" means "formerly".

If I can get you additional info, will try.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe

RE: SPV's and ML trolley cars. Both are off the line, to my knowledge, and not a moment too soon, as they were both dogs. Ask any ATK maintenance person who had to mess with them. Those ML's may have looked sleek, but they only blew by at 110 because ATK had to assign an on-board electrician to each train to keep them running, and don't ask them to run in the snow, because the cooling air intakes and resistor grids were under the cars and would clog, leaving them dead and (poetic justice!) they'd have to be hauled in by a G! That's why they got reshopped and the grids put on top. Another interesting tidbit--the pans were aerodynamic, of course, but where a conventional train would have one or maybe 2 up, the MLs, being EMUs, had to have one up for each paired carset. If the train got any longer than about 3, the slipstream turbulence from the forward pans would cause the pans on the rear cars to gallop on and off the wire, playing havoc with the traction motors and creating a psychedelic ride for the passengers. Hence AEM7's hauling Amcans on the NEC spine ASAP and the trolleys relegated to the Harrisburg line where they could lope along and not see as many picky passengers. The SPVs were owned by ConnDOT and to my knowledge have been replaced by a locomotive hauled trainset. I seem to recall at least one fire, the exhaust leaked into the cabin, the ride was horrendous, etc. Can someone confirm, I think they may have been de-engined like MBTA did to some of their RDCs and turned into trailers. The RDCs were also genuine maintenance headaches until the Canadians rebuilt them, which helped a lot but did not completely solve the problem, although my old friend Jack Humbert (nee of the Reading, B&O and IC) swore by them when he had them in commute service in Philly and Baltimore.

Dallas/Ft Worth (Trinity Railway Express, jointly owned by DART and The T) runs re-engined, re-transmissioned RDCs bought from Canada, MU-ed routinely in trains, but with no trailer cars. They were gutted and are quite nice inside. Here's one of several available links: http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/images.html They are also running bilevels between Dallas and Fort Worth, accessible by free shuttle from DFW Airport.

And if it's still running this week (you Canadians help me out here) the E&N on Vancouver Island (VIA) ran a pair of RDC-1's between Victoria and Courtenay ( I think now just Nanaimo)--there has been quite a controversy over this line, with Rail America on again-off again; the last I saw, back on with the intervention of a shipper. It's a beautiful trip, although the lack of accommodations made it decidedly third-world, but I never could understand why they locked the doors between the two cars, even though both were occupied. I'll always be grateful to the conductor and brakeman who held the train for my then-young son and me at Courtenay so we could run to a store several blocks away and get some food and drinks (there wasn't even water on the train).

B&O ran an all-RDC consist called the "Daylight Speedliner" in the late 50's and early 60's as a mainline train replacement. This train even had an RDC adapted as a food service car. They wound up in commute service (I rode one in 1966 between Pittsburgh and McKeesport) with the train name plates still on the equipment. Definitely one-of-a-kind.

Hope this info is useful. Happy hunting.

[Anonymous]

dear drephpe
I have a question, when you said that OI Jack humbert of the ICC or ICG or whatever was NEE...was he ever the senior vice president of the ICG because that is what I heard or I could be wrong I found someone who had an old official guide but he couldn't find it. How do I get official research or since you know him personally what was the correct title. Who was Senior VP of the ICG back in the day and what is NEE.

QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe

Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Drephpe,

Could you please post that link? I'm not familiar with it and would like to see the passenger equipment that you are referring to. Thanks![;)][:)]
_______________________________________________________________

Happy to. This is one of several that shows the refurbed RDCs in Dallas.

http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/images.html

There are a lot more photos. Just go into google and put in "Trinity Railway Express"

By the way, for those of you unfamiliar with the DFW Metroplex, TRE runs between Dallas and Fort Worth over the tracks of the former Burlington-Rock Island (B-RI) which hosted the Texas Zephyr, Sam Houston Zephyr, Texas Rocket, Twin Star Rocket and Frisco's Firefly and Black Gold.

• Reply
• Edit

[Anonymous]

[drephpe
_______________________________________________________________

Happy to. This is one of several that shows the refurbed RDCs in Dallas.

http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/images.html

There are a lot more photos. Just go into google and put in "Trinity Railway Express"

By the way, for those of you unfamiliar with the DFW Metroplex, TRE runs between Dallas and Fort Worth over the tracks of the former Burlington-Rock Island (B-RI) which hosted the Texas Zephyr, Sam Houston Zephyr, Texas Rocket, Twin Star Rocket and Frisco's Firefly and Black Gold.

[Anonymous]

Per original question: The Chicago and Eastern Illinois used to run a train called the Meadowlark between Chicago and southern Illinois. Originally, in 1947, it was a locomotive-hauled streamliner. But in 1950, it was replaced by an RDC which frequently had a streamlined stainless steel coach in tow. I actually saw the RDC-and- coach Meadowlark in fall of 1964. It was passing over I-294 as we drove that road in south suburban Chicago. The train is also pictured in Ed DeRouin's book C&EI RR in Color, page 33 (date of pix = 1956).

Don't know how or if C&EI got around Budd's warranty, but the operation was apparently successful per the length of time it lasted (i.e., my sighting in 1964).

[Anonymous]

RDC's was builded to move themself. They were very underpowered when first build. The 2nd run of cars had a little more power in them

[Anonymous]

MARC kept some in limited service up to about 2000. They were shipped up to Mass., and pictures are on the New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association website under NH sightings.

[Anonymous]

April '04 'Trains' magazine has an interesting single page article on re-engined and refurbished RDCs being sold and used as they were originally intended.

[Anonymous]

It's on the list right after about twenty or so 'honey-doos' ! I'll keep you posted.

[Anonymous]

Bill---

How's that RDC-1 demo model coming??????

[Anonymous]

hey AntonioFP45- I posted the suggestion re: Spectrum gas electric as a possible source for a power truck, as well as the earlier releases of Spectrums GE 44 and 70 Tonner diesels (2 individual power trucks / diesel chassis).

i recently purchased a Walthers EMC 60' foot gas electric but haven't tested it yet. I had posted a request for feedback on the MR 'General Discussions' Forum, and someone replied that it ran smoothly and quietly-how fast? I don't know, but suspect it's geared to not set any speed records, since the prototypes didn't either. If you're still considering using either Spectrum RDCs or their gas electrics, Train World has some super pricing on both. They have ad every month in MR or try: www.trainworld.com.

FYI, the finish on my RDC-3 was much better than earlier releases and didn't have the speckled or blotchy finish discussed on this string.

[passengerfan]

The Great Northern owned a single RDC-3 delivered in 1956. The single car train was initially assigned to Grand Forks - Duluth service as a connection to the Western Star. When buses replaced the RDC the GN transferred the single car train to Great Falls,Mt. Where it operated on a 812 mile daily schedule. First it departed from Great Falls and ran to Billings and return then operated a daily round trip to Butte all in twenty hours. Later the train became the Western Star connection between Great Falls and Havre after the Western Star dropped its direct service to Great Falls.

[AntonioFP45]

In my search for a truck motor for my HO Metroliner repowering project, someone had suggested the "Spectrum Gas Electric". What is the quality like on the Walther's EMC. Does it run reeasonably quiet and smooth?

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

FYI -- 'Trainworld' has a super deal on Proto !000 Budd RDCs; it's been running in MR for awhile but perhaps you didb't notice. RDC-1s for $29.99, and RDC-2s and RDC-3s for $19.99 each. .Also, if you're interested in gas electrics, they have the Walthers' 60 foot EMC on clearance for $21.99. Your choice of roadnames on both,incl 'undec' on RDCs. Haven't run them yet but both look very good. Very pleased w/ 'Trainworld's' handling of this order (and every order I have ever placed w/ them).

[passengerfan]

DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINERS were three car Budd RDC consists Each consist was lead by a special RDC-2 with a larger than normal Baggage Compartment that contained Kitchen space as well. To the rear of the baggage/Kitchen was a 24-seat dining area with three tables for four on either side of the center aisle. To the rear of the dining area was seating for 24 in reclining seats. These two special RDC-2s were numbered 1960 and 1961. The four trailing RDC-1's were 1908,1909,1910 and 1911 each seated 89 in reclining seats not standard RDC flipover back seating. One RDC-2 and two RDC-1s comprised the DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINER consists. The new trains entered service for the B&O between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia 434 miles daily beginning October28, 1956 and the final run was June 25, 1958 after that date the DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINER was a Pittsburgh - Baltimore run of only 335 miles in 6 hours 50 minutes with the trains final run taking place January 21, 1963.Hope this helps with the DAYLIGHT SPEEDLINER questions.

[AntonioFP45]

Doggy,

I could be mistaken but it was sometime between 1980-82, after the SPV 2000s were built to replace the RDCs running on Amtrak. (SPV 2000 was supposed to stand for : Self Propelled Vehicle suitable to run through the year 2000). Turns out though that the RDCs were the better railcars (no surprises here). It's so ironic that they were built by the same company.

It's easy to see Budd's idea: [;)]

Use an available platform, alter it as needed, make it attractive and customers will buy!

Basically, Budd took the Metroliner and powered it with Detroit Diesel truck engines. The "Catch" was that the metroliner body was not originally designed for this, hence the vibration, noise, cramped access for mechanics, etc. [|(] [B)][:p]

I'm only "assuming" as Budd was able to succeed in taking the Metroliner shell, altering it to become the lightweight "Amfleet" car seen today. This venture was successful. [:)][:p]

I've always disliked Amfleet cars though because they are "too light" and bounce you around if track conditions are on the "rough side". The RDCs and Heritage Fleet cars, with their well built trucks, had much better riding qualities than Amfleet cars. The original Metroliners themeselves, however, had decent riding qualities as they were heavier and rode on high speed trucks. [swg][tup]

[Anonymous]

christmasbaby49--

I'm surprised the B&O hist society can't help. I know I've seen a photo of the entire train somewhere, but I can't place where, and I'm on the road again...(sorry, Willie). If I think of the source, I'll be glad to post it. Somebody else out there---can you help him?????