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Resumption of my layout construction

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Posted by PM Railfan on Thursday, September 21, 2023 3:10 AM

hon30critter

Here is something I have wanted for 50 years. Now I just have to figure out how to organize it and then fill it.

The tool chest came with a protective plastic film on all the drawer fronts. It took me two hours to peel it all off! It came off in little pieces.Grumpy

I'm going to mount my bench vise on it but I don't want to drill big holes in the wood top. I'm going to mount the vise on a piece of 2x6 and then screw that to the top. That will allow me to get a bit more overhang for the vise.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

Well Dave, in your excitement, you got confused. You have to fill it first, THEN you can organize it. Tell ya what, obviously all this garage stuff, ahem, pardon me.... layout room stuff has got you frazzled.

Why dont ya send that nice, shiny, gorgeous looking lunch box on over here and I will fill it.

Whats that Dave? Ya want wha? W$*t wh%t D#%e? I ca^&* he#% &*u. I'm loosi^% you Dave. I c!( .....

(Dialtone)

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, September 20, 2023 11:36 PM

I have been playing with the lighting scheme for the garage (I think I'm going to start calling it the 'layout room'). I want two levels of lighting. One will be bright LED 4 ft. tubes that will illuminate the entire garage including the workbench. The other will be dimmable pot lighting that will be positioned over the layout only.

I'm also considering adding some dimmable spotlights that will shine on the walls to add a bit of background illumination when doing night time running. Thanks to my balance problems and neuropathy I have to be able to see the floor to be able to walk properly. I can't function in near total darkness.

I have attached a lighting plan. The garage, sorry, layout room is 500 square feet. There are two beams that cross the layout room about 10" below the ceiling. One is about 1 ft. wide and the other is about 36" wide because it contains a heating duct. I have designed the lighting to minimize the shadows caused by the beams.

Please tell me what you think.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, September 20, 2023 2:44 PM

Here is something I have wanted for 50 years. Now I just have to figure out how to organize it and then fill it.

The tool chest came with a protective plastic film on all the drawer fronts. It took me two hours to peel it all off! It came off in little pieces.Grumpy

I'm going to mount my bench vise on it but I don't want to drill big holes in the wood top. I'm going to mount the vise on a piece of 2x6 and then screw that to the top. That will allow me to get a bit more overhang for the vise.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, September 19, 2023 2:37 PM

The AC/Heat pump system was installed to day and it works great! Both the inside unit and the outdoor unit are almost silent. Even with fan on max there is very little noise.

My new tool chest was delivered today. It is quite impressive (I'll post pictures later). Unfortunately it arrived locked and without the keys, but a quick call to the dealer solved that. The store manager is going to deliver them personally!

I also bought a heavy duty shelf system. I didn't realize how heavy duty it was until it arrived. It will hold 4500 lbs.! That's about 100 times the weight that we intend to put on it. It's okay, the price was good. No nuts or bolts needed to assemble it. Bonus!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, September 17, 2023 3:43 PM

I spent most of the afternoon trying to simplify the wiring system. The double panels add a bit of complexity (and a whole bunch of wire!). I revised the panel wiring diagrams to make them easier to follow.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, September 16, 2023 3:04 AM

I got some quotes yesterday for having the garage floor cleaned up and re-surfaced. With one exception all of the quotes were for more than we can afford to spend on a garage floor. Everybody wants to sell me a fancy epoxy or polyaspartic finish but I just don't need that level of protection and I don't particularly like the appearance of the floors with the vinyl chips in them.

All I need is for the floor to be smooth and dust free. I have one quote which is affordable. It includes cleaning, etching, a self leveling concrete layer, and paint.

Doing the floor presents another challenge. We have rather crude wooden shelves along two walls that are covered with years of accumulated junk. Some of the stuff is still usable but a lot of it will go either to the curb or to the dump. I want to replace the open shelves with metal cabinets with casters and doors. Sorting through the junk will take a while but I am actually looking forward to cleaning the stuff up.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 15, 2023 12:47 PM

Hi Tin Can ll,

I had a folded dogbone planned at one point but I just didn't have enough space. All the curves were too tight and the reach in distances were excessive. I only had 10 ft x 20 ft. It sounds like you have a fair bit of space to work with.

The curves on this layout are tight too but I can reach everything.

I saw an HO layout a few years ago where the modeler had turned his lift out into a powered operating bascule bridge. It was quite impressive!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    March 2021
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Posted by Tin Can II on Friday, September 15, 2023 10:09 AM

Dave:  Looks like a great plan!  Even better that it can fit your needs.

I am struggling with the design of my basement layout.  I would love to have an around the walls track plan, but that would require at least one, and probably two duckunders/swing bridges.  Doable, but not preferred.  I also want visitors (many non-hobbyists) to be able to walk into the room and immediately be impressed (I hope) with a view of the railroad.  I want a portion of the layout to have continuous running, for these visitors, but I also will build a branch with numerous switching opportunities.

I think I can get a folded dogbone with a long exterior branch line into a 19 x 40 space.  The dogbone is going to have to fit in a central 12 x 30 space, as the wife has claimed some prime real estate along one wall for storage.

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, September 14, 2023 11:54 PM

I arranged for my AC/Heat Pump unit to be installed next Tuesday. The installation is a bit more expensive than I had hoped, but I have great confidance in the installer. I refuse to try to save a few bucks by going with people who don't impress me. The first person who quoted on the installation gleefully anounced that he was a close friend of my ex-neighbour. That neighbour was a drug dealer! We had SWAT teams visit his house on more than one occassion!Super Angry

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Ludington, MI
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Posted by Water Level Route on Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:54 PM

hon30critter
The first question that many will ask (including Peter Lloyd-Lee) is why didn't I do an 'around the walls' design.

Won't catch me asking.  You are doing what you want for a reason (that you explained well in your first layout thread incidentally).  I get the advantages of around the walls, but there is something I like about a table top style.  Maybe because they harken back to first layouts?  Model on Dave!

Mike

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, September 14, 2023 7:43 PM

I finally did something that I should have done long ago. I measured the layout with the yard attached and compared it to the actual garage space. Everything fit in but I realized that the aisles at either end of the layout/yard assembly were rather narrow. To make the end aisles more comfortable, I cut 18" off of the end of the yard. The yard is still long enough to accommodate most of the trains that I will be running.

Then I asked myself why the end of the yard needed to be a separate module since the tracks on the module were now only 54". I decided that I will keep the yard as one single assembly but I am building it so that I can make that part of the yard into a seperate unit with only a couple of saw cuts and adding two casters. The entire unit will be on casters so that it can be rolled to one side if more space is needed for other projects.

Here is the garage with the layout in place:

The first question that many will ask (including Peter Lloyd-Lee) is why didn't I do an 'around the walls' design. The answer is that I don't want to have to get out of my chair every time I need to reach into the layout because my back just can't take it. I have to be able to operate the layout from a seated position. The reach-in distances for this layout are less than 24" with a couple of exceptions. My around the wall design had reach-ins of 30"+ and narrow aisles. Yes, an around the walls layout can be done with shorter reach-in distances but there were too many other compromises in terms of what scenes I wanted on the layout.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, September 13, 2023 5:40 AM

Water Level Route
Thanks for the update Dave.  Sounds like some good things happening!

Hi Mike,

Good things are indeed happening! I just ordered a proper rolling tool chest with a wood top. I have wanted one for 50+ years! Now I can take all of the clutter off of my ancient and crude 2x4 wood workbench and get it organized in the tool chest. That will be one thing off of my bucket list.

The wood top will provide a nice working surface for doing the layout. I hope it will be sturdy enough for me to mount my bench vice on it.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    February 2015
  • From: Ludington, MI
  • 1,860 posts
Posted by Water Level Route on Wednesday, September 13, 2023 5:18 AM

Thanks for the update Dave.  Sounds like some good things happening!

Mike

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, September 13, 2023 3:50 AM

I spent a couple of hours looking at how the layout with the yard attached will fit into the garage. I decided that there was not enough aisle space at the ends of the layout for me to comfortably be able to get through while sitting in a rolling chair. To cure that I decided to shorten the yard by about 16". The yard tracks will still be long enough to store the trains that I anticipate running, and if worse comes to worst, I will have to use two yard tracks to make up one train.

I should mention that my rather naive initial vision for the yard was to be able to store as many cars as possible on it. After doing some reading I realized that doing that would make the yard pretty much unusable.Dunce

I also played with the arrangement of the rest of the garage space. We have a freezer that has to stay in the garage, but I can do what I want with the rest of the space. My initial planning suggests that I can accommodate five storage cabinets 36" wide x 18" deep x 66" high, plus a small workbench. I can also add some 12" wide shelving closer to the ceiling. I will be able to park a lot of kits etc. on that. There is also a narrow shelf about 42" off the floor which sits on top of the cinder block foundation. It is just wide enough to fit some display cases on, but I will leave that for down the road. My problem is that we will have less storage space because we won't be able to pile boxes of toilet paper etc. in the middle of the floor as is our current practise. We will just not be able to buy in bulk any more.

I have a gentleman coming on Sunday to give me a quote on installing my split AC/Heat Pump system. The next step construction wize will be to find someone to refinish the garage floor.

Cheers everyone!!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, September 9, 2023 9:37 PM

I have been playing with how to attach the yard to the main layout. My first plan required a rather cumbersome triangular addition to the yard benchwork that was larger enough that it would have required additional casters to keep the whole assembly ballanced. It was simply too big.

I have managed to reduce the size and complexity of the triangular extention to where it can be cantilevered off of the yard benchwork without creating any balance issues. As a bonus, it uses about 1/4 of the wood required for the original plan, and it actually provides a small space for some elevated scenery for the train to run through.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 8, 2023 9:17 AM

It's Christmas in Bradford!

My NCE PH Pro - r wireless DCC command station set just arrived. Everything was in good condition. I haven't tried it out yet. I need to get the device that will allow folks to use their cell phones as throttles but there is no urgency for that.

Time to start reading the manual.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Monday, September 4, 2023 8:45 PM

I sent a note to Peter Lloyd-Lee who will be doing the track and wiring to ask him if he saw any glaring mistakes in my track plan. He pointed out one potential serious problem and that was that the tracks crossing from the main layout to the yard were at very steep angles to the benchwork joints where the yard and the main layout will be connected. He suggested that they should be as close to 90 degrees as possible. The more I looked at the problem, the harder the solution appeared to be. To add to the complexity, I had located two turnouts directly over the benchwork joints.

After a couple of hours I came up with a very simple solution. I decided to cut the yard in half from north to south just to the west of where yard turnout 'K' is located. The joint will cross all seven yard tracks at exactly 90 degrees. The cut off section will be about 6' x 26" and it will be on its own set of casters.

The east section of the yard will eventually be bolted directly to the main benchwork so there will be no potential movement between the two pieces of benchwork. We shouldn't even have to cut the rails.

The east section of the yard won't be attached to the main benchwork until all the wiring and under layout details have been installed on the main section. That will allow us to take advantage of the benchwork's rotating mechanism to gain access to the underside to do the work. Once all the wiring etc. is done there should be no further need to tilt the table. If at some point in the future there is a need to tilt the main table, the rails can be cut and the section unbolted.

I am going to add Casters to the east portion of the yard both for stability, and so that that part of the yard can be free standing should it ever be separated from the main benchwork. Probably unneccesary but you know full well that I like to build things like the proverbial masonary outdoor convenience.Smile, Wink & Grin

Here is the track plan showing where the cut will be:

The main layout with the east side of the yard attached will still be relatively easy to move to get it out of the way when needed.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, September 3, 2023 10:09 PM

I just refined the yard benchwork design to make it easier to install the Tortoises and the uncouplers. I only had to move two crossmembers a bit and It looks like I will require two remote Tortoise mounts. No big deal.

I questioned why I would need Tortoise machines and uncouplers in the yard since it is only 24" wide, but I have decided to go with them. With my lack of dexterity I can see myself knocking cars off the rails left, right and center trying to uncouple them manually.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 1, 2023 7:54 PM

 

For those of you who might be interested, here are three of the control panel schematics. There are actually six panels in total but the other three are mirror images of the drawings below so I don't see a need to post them. All of these panels go on the south side of the layout:

Here (again) is the whole layout:

Green and orange circles are uncouplers.

Service area:

Orange squares are uncouplers on the panel diagrams. The squares show the size of the switch bodies for clearance purposes. Blue squares are turnout toggle switch bodies. Red circles are bi-colour LEDs.

South industrial:

South yard:

The panels will be about 12" x 6 1/2" (5 1/2" for the yard panels).

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 1, 2023 5:33 PM

I finally have the control panel schematics worked out. I have been playing with the number and locations of the Rapido uncouplers and I think I have them down to a reasonable number. I'll post the diagrams tonight so you can offer any advice you might have.

I have enlarged the panels slightly to make them a bit less crowded. What colour would you choose? I'm leaning towards a black panel with white track and turnout numbers. If I really had my druthers I'd like to have the track lines illuminated with red/green indications. That would be doable by having the panels printed on white plexy with the non track areas painted black. I believe that there are now LED strips available that can be cut to length. That would create another interesting wiring discussion!

Lots of fun options!

For now, I will stay with masonite until I'm happy with the track plan.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, August 29, 2023 6:13 AM

Water Level Route
I'm a little jealous of the mini-split system you are putting in.  That will make it really nice!

Hi Mike,

I was surprized at the price. The system is way cheaper than a home air conditioning unit. I'm getting it from a company in Quebec by the name of Senville. I checked out several split system reviews and they were at the top every time. The nice thing is that they offer 110v systems so I shouldn't have to add a sub panel.

I'm not quite so happy with the cost of doing proper cabinets. Right now all I have are messy and crude wooden shelves that will not look good in the background of any layout photos.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    February 2015
  • From: Ludington, MI
  • 1,860 posts
Posted by Water Level Route on Tuesday, August 29, 2023 5:43 AM

Exciting stuff Dave!  I admit I'm a little jealous of the mini-split system you are putting in.  That will make it really nice!

Mike

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  • From: Flyover Country
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Posted by York1 on Monday, August 28, 2023 10:15 PM

Sounds great, Dave.

The heating/AC is going to make a great difference for you.  

York1 John       

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, August 28, 2023 9:47 PM

I have decided that if I am in for a penny then I am in for a pound. The garage is going to get some upgrades!

The first thing I need to do is get the floor refinished. There are no major cracks but there are a few pot holes that are a couple of inches deep. Those obviously need to be repaired and then I will have the whole thing resurfaced. I'm not sure I want to go to the expense of having it epoxied. I may just opt to have the concrete polished and sealed.

I am going to install a ductless split AC/heat pump system. They are not that expensive. I only need a 12,000 btu unit. That will make the garage comfortable all year round and it will provide some temperature and humidity stability for the layout.

All the walls and the ceiling are drywalled already so that will just require some cleaning up and painting.

The next question is how far do I want to go with fancy cabinetry. Right now I have a bunch of rather crude and messy wooden shelves. I do have two tall cabinets which I intend to use for train stuff once I get them assembled, but it would be nice to hide the rest of the junk like power tools and gardening supplies too.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Monday, August 28, 2023 7:20 PM

I'm not sure if you have been following my thread in the Electronics and DCC forum, but Sheldon has just helped me to simplify my control panels significantly.

https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/296196.aspx

I was trying to figure out how to wire two toggle switches to turn the power off to one stub end spur. Things were getting complicated until Sheldon suggested that I simply route power to the spur through one set of contacts in the Tortoise.

Using the built in Tortoise switch instead of having a separate toggle switch and an LED indicator reduces the number of components in the control panels by 72 pieces in total even though there are only 18 spurs that need to have the power controlled. That's amazing!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, August 27, 2023 3:15 PM

Hi Mark,

Thank you for that suggestion. We had a similar setup at my old club and everyone was very happy with it. It certainly makes a non-issue out of the number of throttles that are available.

I am on my second NCE Power Cab. A broken water pipe killed the first one. Having it repaired was almost the same price as buying a new one, so now I have some spare parts should the second one wear out. I doubt that will ever happen because the Power Cab will only be used on the workbench test track.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Wyoming, where men are men, and sheep are nervous!
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Posted by Pruitt on Sunday, August 27, 2023 10:17 AM

I've had a 5 amp NCE Power Pro radio system since around 2001 and have been very happy with it. It's never failed, and NCE support is always outstanding.

I did have a bit of a problem with radio dead spots on my basement-sized layout, so I added a Wifitrax WFD-31 wi-fi adapter. It allows you to use any smart phone as a throttle (with either Engine Driver or Withrottle, depending on whether you phone is an Android or Apple), and coverage is rock solid everywhere. It connects to the system throttle buss in place of one of NCE's UTP throttle ports. It took a lot longer to read the half page of basic set-up instructions than it did to get the unit working.

For my money, both NCE and Wifitrax produce excellent products.

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, August 26, 2023 5:00 PM

I decided that I wanted to buy an NCE 5 amp radio command system. I spent three hours last night trying to find one. Nobody in Canada has one in stock, and NCE doesn't even have any because of parts availability issues. I finally found one at Trainworld so I snapped it up (they only had two).

I think I'm happy. It was a bit of an investment but at least I have one. I just hope it works properly because NCE has suspended their repairs, again because of a lack of chips.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, August 23, 2023 9:06 PM

Here are the drawings for the control panel frames. The side view shows the pivot point where the front face will pivot downward at the bottom. The terminal strips will be attached to the folding frame so the stranded wires coming from the layout can do all the flexing.

Double click for a larger view.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, August 22, 2023 3:34 PM

Hi Mark,

We are going to use stranded wire for everything except the control panels. I want to use solid 20 ga. wire in the panels so that I can control its positioning more accurately. That will have the additional advantage of not stressing the wires when the control panels are folded forward to gain access to the terminal strips. The strips will be mounted on a small frame which will be attached to the layout behind the control panels.

I will post some drawings once I get them done.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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