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Resumption of my layout construction

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, August 22, 2023 3:23 PM

Hi AEP528,

Unfortunately I was being rather premature when I ordered those panels. There are two major flaws with them. One is that they are far too big  and the second, somewhat more fatal issue, is that thay don't match the track plan anymore!Dunce

In order to avoid making mistake #2 again, I am going to work with the masonite boards for several months. Once I am happy with the plan I will order the fancy panels.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, August 17, 2023 9:51 AM

hon30critter
Hi Mark,

There will be a lot of wires for sure, but I have a good idea of how to prevent them from looking like a rat's nest.

...

I'm going to use smaller solid wire so I can make the bends cleaner.

...

Cheers!!

Dave

The panel looks great, Dave - much cleaner than the back of panels I've wired in the past.

One suggetion - use stranded wire. I used solid wire and the conductor on smaller wire has a real tendancy to break as you're wiring the switches. Stranded is much less likely to do that.

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Posted by AEP528 on Thursday, August 17, 2023 8:00 AM

You're not using the control panels you previously ordered?

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, August 16, 2023 2:21 PM

Pruitt
There's a lot in those panels! Wiring them will be lots of fun. Be sure to post pics of the finish products, okay? Maybe next week? 

Hi Mark,

There will be a lot of wires for sure, but I have a good idea of how to prevent them from looking like a rat's nest.

Here is the back of a panel that I made for my old club. I used bigger wire than was necessary but it was what I had on hand. It was my first attempt and I learned a lot. For one thing, I'm going to use smaller solid wire so I can make the bends cleaner. The terminal strips will be on a separate strip of wood so that should reduce some of the congestion:

 

Here is the front of the same panel:

I will post pictures once the boards are finished. That won't be in a week!Smile, Wink & Grin

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Pruitt on Wednesday, August 16, 2023 10:32 AM

There's a lot in those panels! Wiring them will be lots of fun.

Be sure to post pics of the finish products, okay? Maybe next week? Big Smile

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 11:52 PM

Hi Mark,

As requested:

Layout plan:

Service area panel for the south side of the layout. There be a matching panel for the north side. Blue squares are DPDT mini toggle switches. Orange squares are Rapido uncouplers. Gray squares are power shutoffs. The squares are the size of the body of the switches. Red circles are LEDs:

Industrial area panel For the south side. There will be a matching panel on the north side:

Yard panel for the south side. There will be a matching panel for the north side:

I'm going to mount terminal strips on separate panels behind the control panels so all the soldering can be done at the workbench. The control panels and connector panels will pivot forward at the bottom to make the wiring easier. All the panels are 11 3/16" x 6" as they are drawn.

I printed the panels actual size so I could see if the switches are too close together for my fingers, but the clearances are fine. The initial panels will be made of masonite. Down the road, once I am happy that the layout works as intended, I will make plexy panels.

There will be other items added to the panels like lighting controls and switches to control the trolley.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Wyoming, where men are men, and sheep are nervous!
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Posted by Pruitt on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 8:25 PM

hon30critter
I managed to create some plans for the control panels tonight. After several hours of fiddling I got the panels down to about 13" x 6 1/2". Each of the panels covers one entire half of the layout. The minimum distance between toggle switches is 1 1/2".

My first attempt came out poorly. A single panel would have been 28" x 14"! I wouldn't be able to see the layout!

The next step will be to figure out the wiring.

Cheers!!

Dave

Hey, how about some pics?? Both the god AND the bad!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 1:09 AM

I managed to create some plans for the control panels tonight. After several hours of fiddling I got the panels down to about 13" x 6 1/2". Each of the panels covers one entire half of the layout. The minimum distance between toggle switches is 1 1/2".

My first attempt came out poorly. A single panel would have been 28" x 14"! I wouldn't be able to see the layout!

The next step will be to figure out the wiring.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, August 14, 2023 10:14 AM

Hi Mark,

We are looking at next Spring or early summer. Peter has to make an 1800 mile round trip from Tennessee so neither of us was particularly thrilled with the idea of him driving in winter. He is driving as opposed to flying so he can bring his own tools with him. Driving is slightly more expensive but not by much.

I'm not worried about the delay. I have a lot of stuff to do to get ready. One of the major tasks will be to build four control panels for the main layout and possibly two panels for the yard. There will be two DPDT switches for each turnout, plus switches for about 15 Rapido uncouplers, and several switches for power shut off to individual tracks.

I want to make the panels as compact as possible because I want to be able to easily reach over them from a seated position.

I also have to sort out all of my locomotives. About a dozen need to have decoders installed and programmed, and there are several locomotives and cars that I have to finish modifications on. For example, I am upgrading the roof mounted Mars lights on my Rapido Canadian Pacific F series locomotives. The original Mars lights were pitiful! I'm also adding working Mars lights to several Intermountain CP Fs as well. 

I can also use the time to build some structures.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Pruitt on Monday, August 14, 2023 8:52 AM

Do you have a timeframe for whe Peter will be able to start on your layout?

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, August 13, 2023 10:39 PM

gmpullman
Are you planning to use these toggle switches for Tortoise machines, Dave? You can use SPDT if you wire them as shown in example 2 or 3 here:

Hi Ed,

Sorry for the slow response. I need DPDT On-On switches for the Tortoises because I want to be able to contol all the turnouts from either side of the layout. Every Tortoise will therefore require two DPDT switches (and lots of wire!).

I will have uses for the SPDT switches to kill track power in several areas and to control lighting.

Thanks for the link to Circutron.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, August 11, 2023 3:55 PM

Gee Dave!!! I realise that they’re not the only game in town but I don’t know what’s wrong with Peco points and their use with DCC?!!!

Hi Bear,

I know that the Peco Electrofrog turnouts are fine for DCC as they come, but I have added a couple of things like point rail connecting wires instead of relying on the pivot rail contacts, and I have added the frog feed wires. I want to make sure that my work meets Peter's standards.

I also want to make sure that all of the turnouts that I have are usable. Some of them are quite old. I don't want Peter to get here only to discover that we need new turnouts.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, August 11, 2023 7:05 AM

hon30critter
On another front, the layout builder has agreed to examine my collection of Peco Code 100 Electrofrog turnouts to see if I have converted them to be DCC friendly properly.

Huh? Hmm Gee Dave!!! I realise that they’re not the only game in town but I don’t know what’s wrong with Peco points and their use with DCC?!!!
 img784 by Bear, on Flickr
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, August 11, 2023 1:26 AM

hon30critter
A little while later I realized that I had ordered SPDT switches when what I needed were DPDT.

Are you planning to use these toggle switches for Tortoise machines, Dave? You can use SPDT if you wire them as shown in example 2 or 3 here:

http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/INS/800-6000ins.pdf

If you use them to isolate track sections in DCC you simply kill the power to one rail and that's all that's needed.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, August 10, 2023 4:59 PM

We got back from our visit to cottage country a bit sooner than we expected so I want to bring you up to date on the layout.

First, I had a terrible time with PayPal getting the down payment to the layout builder, Peter Lloyd-Lee. He preferred to use PayPal so I agreed. Then the fun started! I transferred sufficient funds to my PayPal balance only to discover that the transfer would take eight days to complete. That bothered me a bit but I decided to just go along.

Eight days later the funds showed up in my PayPal balance so I proceeded to send the deposit to the layout builder, or at least I tried to send the money. I was informed that I had exceeded the amount of money that I could transfer in a single transaction. The website said that I could increase my limit online but I couldn't find the page that would allow me to do that.

My next step was to phone PayPal. I got a nice lady on the phone whose accent was so thick that I couldn't understand her at first but eventually we were able to communicate. She discovered that my PayPal account was not working properly so she would have to make the changes from her end, which she did. So far, so good. Then she proceeded to inform me that, even though my payment limit had been lifted, it could take up to 10 days for the payment to be processed. That was absolutely unacceptable and I told her so. With a rather firm voice I told her that I wanted the payment to be processed immediately! To make a long story short, she was able to make that happen. I use PayPal frequently. That may change.

On another front, the layout builder has agreed to examine my collection of Peco Code 100 Electrofrog turnouts to see if I have converted them to be DCC friendly properly. They are all older versions of varying vintages. If he is not happy with them, then I will donate the turnouts to my old train club and acquire new Peco Code 83 Unifrog turnouts as well as Peco Code 83 track.

I managed to have another senior's moment.Dunce I need a bunch of toggle switches for the control panels so I went online to a local electronics distributor and ordered them. A little while later I realized that I had ordered SPDT switches when what I needed were DPDT. Between the restocking fee and the return postage, it's not woth sending them back. I will be able to use some of them so it is not a total loss.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, August 9, 2023 10:56 AM

I'm away for a few days. I will resume the thread when I get back.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, August 3, 2023 4:09 PM

riogrande5761
No diner?  Gonna have hungry passengers!

Diner? What Diner??

Ooops! I guess I had a seniors' moment.Smile, Wink & GrinSmile, Wink & Grin

The trick might be finding one in CP maroon and grey.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, August 3, 2023 8:44 AM

The Canadian by Rapido is a really nice passenger train.  No diner?  Gonna have hungry passengers!

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, August 2, 2023 11:03 PM

I have decided to go ahead with the installation of a small (12,000 btu.) heating/air conditioning system. The garage is approx. 600 sq. ft. and the unit will cover up to 750 sq. ft. It should be a fairly straight forward installation since everything will be on the same level. My only concern is that I'm not sure if the panel has sufficient capacity, but installing a sub panel if needed shouldn't be an issue. We shall see!

On another layout front, I have always wanted Rapido's 'Canadian' passenger train in the maroon and grey livery. I actually rode on it from Toronto to Vancouver and back in 1965. I have managed to find seven cars for it. I have:

- Two coaches (on preorder);

- Two sleepers;

- One baggage/dormitory car;

- One mid train dome car;

- One observation/dome car (it's in the action red livery but I have a set of decals to convert it to maroon stripping).

I have more than enough InterMountain and Rapido F series engines to fill the bill, so I'm all set. I don't want a longer train because it would look awkward on my small layout. All I need now is a bull elk to stand beside the train, oh, and some snow.Smile, Wink & Grin

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, August 2, 2023 7:45 PM

York1
At least you can get your car into the garage. 

Nope, not going to happen! We haven't had a car in the garage for years. The last one was my '69 MGC GT and it was completely disassembled.

If all goes to plan, the layout will have a detachable yard that will take up a fair amount of space. There will also be two large storage cabinets for train stuff.

The garage also serves as a paint/woodworking shop and storage for garden supplies and tools, as well as storage for items we buy in bulk (like paper towelsSmile, Wink & Grin).

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by York1 on Wednesday, August 2, 2023 7:04 AM

hon30critter
We discovered that we have three full cases of paper towels so we are going to deliver two of them to our kids who have a new baby. I'm sure they will use them up in no time. There is a lot more extranious stuff but I won't bore you with the details.

 

At least you can get your car into the garage.  Smile

Before I built my backyard shed, it was touch-and-go trying to get our car into and out of the garage/storage area.

Good luck and have fun.  This is another of life's great adventures that keep our minds from going dull.

York1 John       

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, August 2, 2023 12:35 AM

With the amount of effort that goes into building a layout, at the very least, one should be able to enjoy it when one likes. As I’m not a heating engineer I can offer no ideas but hope you can come up with an efficient solution, you deserve it!

Hi Bear,

As you point out, things can get quite hot here in the summer as well, so a system that both heats and cools would be ideal.

Several companies in Canada offer so called 'split' systems. These do not require any ductwork and they take up very little space both inside and outside. They are available in dual purpose heating and air conditioning styles. The interior component resides on a wall in a central location in the room, and the exterior unit can be mounted 'almost' anywhere but the closer to the interior unit, the better. Costs range considerably but the garage is only about 600 sq. ft. so I don't need a massive unit.

Dianne spent about three hours in the garage on Tuesday afternoon identifying things that we can get rid of to make more room for the layout. Her brother has offered to sell my Shwin pedal tricycle which has virtually no operating time. I couldn't ride it comfortably because of the angle at which my feet sit relative to my legs so it has been sitting in the garage for several years. We discovered that we have three full cases of paper towels so we are going to deliver two of them to our kids who have a new baby. I'm sure they will use them up in no time. There is a lot more extranious stuff but I won't bore you with the details.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, August 1, 2023 5:07 AM
Dave, I’m glad that you’re going to seriously consider Selectors suggestion. For some reason I thought that your garage was uninsulated. Looking on the interweb, I see that Bradford, Ontario does not have “temperate maritime climate” and is in fact both hotter and colder than here.
 
The Club was not only uninsulated but had inadequate heating and cooling. A couple of problems arose because of this; building bench work and laying track that was reliable no matter what the temperature was, (it was doable), and especially in winter that most members found it too cold to run trains and preferred to huddle around the heaters in the kitchen/meeting room, gossiping.
 
With the amount of effort that goes into building a layout, at the very least, one should be able to enjoy it when one likes. As I’m not a heating engineer I can offer no ideas but hope you can come up with an efficient solution, you deserve it!
¼ My 2 Cents Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, August 1, 2023 1:07 AM

selector
Dave, is there ANY way you could find some kind of insulating material to throw against the walls?

Hi selector,

We are in southern Ontario just north of Toronto. Winter temperatures routinely get into the -20s C and often below that. The garage is already insulated and drywalled and the garage doors are insulated as well, so that is already covered. However, the garage does get cold during the winter months because there is no built in source of heat. As I mentioned, I have a small space heater which will take the chill off if left to run for several hours but I don't like to let it run when I am not in the garage.

You make a very good point about the temperature swings potentially causing problems with the trackwork. I hadn't thought about that.Dunce You have inspired me to investigate having a proper heating system installed in the garage. I'm pretty sure that my electrical panel would have the capacity to handle a heating system (and possibly a cooling system) because we had the panel upgraded not too long ago.

Thanks for your input!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by selector on Monday, July 31, 2023 6:10 PM

Dave, is there ANY way you could find some kind of insulating material to throw against the walls? I don't know where you live, but if you get nights as low as 10 deg F, your construction will need to be carefully considered, especially how the tracks are kept in alignment and adhered. And, in the summers, humidity might do nasty things.

I can see not wanting to waste energy and money heating a building or room that isn't being used much. Believe me, I get it. But, if you can spring for maybe $200 for insulation, even as little as R-15, you could heat the place enough to keep it at about 6-8 deg for maybe $40/month, and that's for four/five months.

I put this forward because I have had hobbies and pastimes galore.  What is unwieldy, heavy, uncomfortable, complicated, unreliable, and/or remote in any way, will quickly pale and get little use.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, July 31, 2023 5:50 PM

 Short by Bear, on Flickr

Smile, Wink & Grin LaughLaugh

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by crossthedog on Monday, July 31, 2023 5:11 PM

hon30critter
I need to learn how to make my posts shorter.

To quote John Barth, "much can be said for minimalism." But a long post is not necessarily a dull read.

-Matt

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, July 31, 2023 1:19 PM

Hi Bear,

Thank you for finding the old layout thread. I need to improve my search skills.

I had forgotten how long the thread had become. I don't expect anyone to read through it. I need to learn how to make my posts shorter.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Monday, July 31, 2023 9:03 AM

 
hon30critter
After a long hiatus I am resuming the construction of my 5'4" x 12' HO scale layout. I had a thread going on it several years ago but I can't find it so I will start anew. 

https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/281323.aspx?page=1

SighSigh

Ahhhh . . . the internet is forever! Big Smile

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by York1 on Monday, July 31, 2023 8:45 AM

I'm looking forward to seeing your new layout progress.

Congratulations!Thumbs Up

York1 John       

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