Hello folks!
After a long hiatus I am resuming the construction of my 5'4" x 12' HO scale layout. I had a thread going on it several years ago but I can't find it so I will start anew.
The layout was put on hold because of back and leg problems which prevented me from working on it for more than a few minutes at a time. Our circumstances have changed significantly such that I am now in the position of being able to pay for a professional layout builder to do the trackwork and wiring.
I am currently in the process of signing a contract with Peter Lloyd-Lee. You may have seen his numerous You-Tube videos. He has built some amazing layouts. My layout is tiny in comparison to most of the layouts that he has done.
I'm going to use this thread for two purposes. The first will be to seek your advice on a variety of details like what switches to use in the control panels. The second will be to document the layout construction process. Be aware that the construction will not be done until sometime during the summer of 2024. The garage in which the layout will reside is not heated and we have cold winters so I'm not going to ask Peter to work under those conditions. I have a small space heater which will take the chill off, but I refuse to run it when the garage is not occupied.
My first question is about the control panels. FYI, I need to be able to operate the layout from a seated position with a minimum of standing and walking. For that reason, there will be a total of four control panels, two on each side of the walk around layout. For control purposes the layout will be divided down the middle lengthwise. One panel on each side will control the half of the layout closest to it, and the other panel(s) will control the half of the layout on the opposite side of the benchwork.
The panels must be as small as is reasonably possible, and I need to have bi-colour LED indicators on both of the diverging routes. I am too stupid to be able to remember which route is the through route and which is the diverging. I know that having two LEDs is redundant but I can guarrantee that if I don't have two LEDs I'm going to mess things up. For that reason, the single push button turnout controls that are lit to show which route the turnout is set for just won't work for me. Besides, the ones that I have seen are too big to fit in a small control panel IMHO.
I am looking forward to your input. I will post a track plan soon.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave, I'm excited to see you begin this. Congratulations on getting started again. Looking forward to seeing it take shape.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Dave) You aint foolin me! Your only working on your layout now because you finished your snow plow and you need something to run it on.
J/K - and best wishes to a good finish asap so you can get to running trains!
Ahead Clear!!!!
Douglas
Here is the current track plan. I have spent many hours refining it using 3rd PlanIt. I know that 3rd PlanIt's track component library is accurate because I have done some testing, so there shouldn't be any nasty surprises when the track is being laid.
There are two parts to the benchwork, both of which will be on casters. One is the main layout which is 5'4" x 12', and the second is the yard which is approximately 3' x 10' plus a couple of extensions where the yard will connect to the main layout. The two parts will be built so they can be separated and moved about individually. The reason for that is that I have limited space in the garage and I have to maintain room for storage, woodworking occassionally, and my paint booth and workbench. When the layout is in use I want to be able to walk around it comfortably, but when it is not in use, I want to be able to push it out of the way.
The main benchwork is built. I have not started construction of the yard benchwork yet. Before I can do that I need to get rid of a whole bunch of extraneous stuff that is taking up space in the garage.
hon30critterAfter a long hiatus I am resuming the construction of my 5'4" x 12' HO scale layout. I had a thread going on it several years ago but I can't find it so I will start anew.
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/281323.aspx?page=1
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Little things always go wrong in planning but your layout is loose enough that if one pops up it, only you will notice the change even if you gave someone your curent track plan. Glad you are able to finally build your layout.
I'm looking forward to seeing your new layout progress.
Congratulations!
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
hon30critter After a long hiatus I am resuming the construction of my 5'4" x 12' HO scale layout. I had a thread going on it several years ago but I can't find it so I will start anew. https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/281323.aspx?page=1
hon30critter After a long hiatus I am resuming the construction of my 5'4" x 12' HO scale layout. I had a thread going on it several years ago but I can't find it so I will start anew.
Ahhhh . . . the internet is forever!
LINK to SNSR Blog
Hi Bear,
Thank you for finding the old layout thread. I need to improve my search skills.
I had forgotten how long the thread had become. I don't expect anyone to read through it. I need to learn how to make my posts shorter.
hon30critterI need to learn how to make my posts shorter.
Short by Bear, on Flickr
Dave, is there ANY way you could find some kind of insulating material to throw against the walls? I don't know where you live, but if you get nights as low as 10 deg F, your construction will need to be carefully considered, especially how the tracks are kept in alignment and adhered. And, in the summers, humidity might do nasty things.
I can see not wanting to waste energy and money heating a building or room that isn't being used much. Believe me, I get it. But, if you can spring for maybe $200 for insulation, even as little as R-15, you could heat the place enough to keep it at about 6-8 deg for maybe $40/month, and that's for four/five months.
I put this forward because I have had hobbies and pastimes galore. What is unwieldy, heavy, uncomfortable, complicated, unreliable, and/or remote in any way, will quickly pale and get little use.
selectorDave, is there ANY way you could find some kind of insulating material to throw against the walls?
Hi selector,
We are in southern Ontario just north of Toronto. Winter temperatures routinely get into the -20s C and often below that. The garage is already insulated and drywalled and the garage doors are insulated as well, so that is already covered. However, the garage does get cold during the winter months because there is no built in source of heat. As I mentioned, I have a small space heater which will take the chill off if left to run for several hours but I don't like to let it run when I am not in the garage.
You make a very good point about the temperature swings potentially causing problems with the trackwork. I hadn't thought about that. You have inspired me to investigate having a proper heating system installed in the garage. I'm pretty sure that my electrical panel would have the capacity to handle a heating system (and possibly a cooling system) because we had the panel upgraded not too long ago.
Thanks for your input!
With the amount of effort that goes into building a layout, at the very least, one should be able to enjoy it when one likes. As I’m not a heating engineer I can offer no ideas but hope you can come up with an efficient solution, you deserve it!
As you point out, things can get quite hot here in the summer as well, so a system that both heats and cools would be ideal.
Several companies in Canada offer so called 'split' systems. These do not require any ductwork and they take up very little space both inside and outside. They are available in dual purpose heating and air conditioning styles. The interior component resides on a wall in a central location in the room, and the exterior unit can be mounted 'almost' anywhere but the closer to the interior unit, the better. Costs range considerably but the garage is only about 600 sq. ft. so I don't need a massive unit.
Dianne spent about three hours in the garage on Tuesday afternoon identifying things that we can get rid of to make more room for the layout. Her brother has offered to sell my Shwin pedal tricycle which has virtually no operating time. I couldn't ride it comfortably because of the angle at which my feet sit relative to my legs so it has been sitting in the garage for several years. We discovered that we have three full cases of paper towels so we are going to deliver two of them to our kids who have a new baby. I'm sure they will use them up in no time. There is a lot more extranious stuff but I won't bore you with the details.
hon30critterWe discovered that we have three full cases of paper towels so we are going to deliver two of them to our kids who have a new baby. I'm sure they will use them up in no time. There is a lot more extranious stuff but I won't bore you with the details.
At least you can get your car into the garage.
Before I built my backyard shed, it was touch-and-go trying to get our car into and out of the garage/storage area.
Good luck and have fun. This is another of life's great adventures that keep our minds from going dull.
York1At least you can get your car into the garage.
Nope, not going to happen! We haven't had a car in the garage for years. The last one was my '69 MGC GT and it was completely disassembled.
If all goes to plan, the layout will have a detachable yard that will take up a fair amount of space. There will also be two large storage cabinets for train stuff.
The garage also serves as a paint/woodworking shop and storage for garden supplies and tools, as well as storage for items we buy in bulk (like paper towels).
I have decided to go ahead with the installation of a small (12,000 btu.) heating/air conditioning system. The garage is approx. 600 sq. ft. and the unit will cover up to 750 sq. ft. It should be a fairly straight forward installation since everything will be on the same level. My only concern is that I'm not sure if the panel has sufficient capacity, but installing a sub panel if needed shouldn't be an issue. We shall see!
On another layout front, I have always wanted Rapido's 'Canadian' passenger train in the maroon and grey livery. I actually rode on it from Toronto to Vancouver and back in 1965. I have managed to find seven cars for it. I have:
- Two coaches (on preorder);
- Two sleepers;
- One baggage/dormitory car;
- One mid train dome car;
- One observation/dome car (it's in the action red livery but I have a set of decals to convert it to maroon stripping).
I have more than enough InterMountain and Rapido F series engines to fill the bill, so I'm all set. I don't want a longer train because it would look awkward on my small layout. All I need now is a bull elk to stand beside the train, oh, and some snow.
The Canadian by Rapido is a really nice passenger train. No diner? Gonna have hungry passengers!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 No diner? Gonna have hungry passengers!
Diner? What Diner??
Ooops! I guess I had a seniors' moment.
The trick might be finding one in CP maroon and grey.
Thanks,
I'm away for a few days. I will resume the thread when I get back.
We got back from our visit to cottage country a bit sooner than we expected so I want to bring you up to date on the layout.
First, I had a terrible time with PayPal getting the down payment to the layout builder, Peter Lloyd-Lee. He preferred to use PayPal so I agreed. Then the fun started! I transferred sufficient funds to my PayPal balance only to discover that the transfer would take eight days to complete. That bothered me a bit but I decided to just go along.
Eight days later the funds showed up in my PayPal balance so I proceeded to send the deposit to the layout builder, or at least I tried to send the money. I was informed that I had exceeded the amount of money that I could transfer in a single transaction. The website said that I could increase my limit online but I couldn't find the page that would allow me to do that.
My next step was to phone PayPal. I got a nice lady on the phone whose accent was so thick that I couldn't understand her at first but eventually we were able to communicate. She discovered that my PayPal account was not working properly so she would have to make the changes from her end, which she did. So far, so good. Then she proceeded to inform me that, even though my payment limit had been lifted, it could take up to 10 days for the payment to be processed. That was absolutely unacceptable and I told her so. With a rather firm voice I told her that I wanted the payment to be processed immediately! To make a long story short, she was able to make that happen. I use PayPal frequently. That may change.
On another front, the layout builder has agreed to examine my collection of Peco Code 100 Electrofrog turnouts to see if I have converted them to be DCC friendly properly. They are all older versions of varying vintages. If he is not happy with them, then I will donate the turnouts to my old train club and acquire new Peco Code 83 Unifrog turnouts as well as Peco Code 83 track.
I managed to have another senior's moment. I need a bunch of toggle switches for the control panels so I went online to a local electronics distributor and ordered them. A little while later I realized that I had ordered SPDT switches when what I needed were DPDT. Between the restocking fee and the return postage, it's not woth sending them back. I will be able to use some of them so it is not a total loss.
hon30critterA little while later I realized that I had ordered SPDT switches when what I needed were DPDT.
Are you planning to use these toggle switches for Tortoise machines, Dave? You can use SPDT if you wire them as shown in example 2 or 3 here:
http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/INS/800-6000ins.pdf
If you use them to isolate track sections in DCC you simply kill the power to one rail and that's all that's needed.
Good Luck, Ed
hon30critterOn another front, the layout builder has agreed to examine my collection of Peco Code 100 Electrofrog turnouts to see if I have converted them to be DCC friendly properly.
Gee Dave!!! I realise that they’re not the only game in town but I don’t know what’s wrong with Peco points and their use with DCC?!!!
I know that the Peco Electrofrog turnouts are fine for DCC as they come, but I have added a couple of things like point rail connecting wires instead of relying on the pivot rail contacts, and I have added the frog feed wires. I want to make sure that my work meets Peter's standards.
I also want to make sure that all of the turnouts that I have are usable. Some of them are quite old. I don't want Peter to get here only to discover that we need new turnouts.
gmpullmanAre you planning to use these toggle switches for Tortoise machines, Dave? You can use SPDT if you wire them as shown in example 2 or 3 here:
Hi Ed,
Sorry for the slow response. I need DPDT On-On switches for the Tortoises because I want to be able to contol all the turnouts from either side of the layout. Every Tortoise will therefore require two DPDT switches (and lots of wire!).
I will have uses for the SPDT switches to kill track power in several areas and to control lighting.
Thanks for the link to Circutron.
Do you have a timeframe for whe Peter will be able to start on your layout?
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Hi Mark,
We are looking at next Spring or early summer. Peter has to make an 1800 mile round trip from Tennessee so neither of us was particularly thrilled with the idea of him driving in winter. He is driving as opposed to flying so he can bring his own tools with him. Driving is slightly more expensive but not by much.
I'm not worried about the delay. I have a lot of stuff to do to get ready. One of the major tasks will be to build four control panels for the main layout and possibly two panels for the yard. There will be two DPDT switches for each turnout, plus switches for about 15 Rapido uncouplers, and several switches for power shut off to individual tracks.
I want to make the panels as compact as possible because I want to be able to easily reach over them from a seated position.
I also have to sort out all of my locomotives. About a dozen need to have decoders installed and programmed, and there are several locomotives and cars that I have to finish modifications on. For example, I am upgrading the roof mounted Mars lights on my Rapido Canadian Pacific F series locomotives. The original Mars lights were pitiful! I'm also adding working Mars lights to several Intermountain CP Fs as well.
I can also use the time to build some structures.
I managed to create some plans for the control panels tonight. After several hours of fiddling I got the panels down to about 13" x 6 1/2". Each of the panels covers one entire half of the layout. The minimum distance between toggle switches is 1 1/2".
My first attempt came out poorly. A single panel would have been 28" x 14"! I wouldn't be able to see the layout!
The next step will be to figure out the wiring.
hon30critterI managed to create some plans for the control panels tonight. After several hours of fiddling I got the panels down to about 13" x 6 1/2". Each of the panels covers one entire half of the layout. The minimum distance between toggle switches is 1 1/2". My first attempt came out poorly. A single panel would have been 28" x 14"! I wouldn't be able to see the layout! The next step will be to figure out the wiring. Cheers!! Dave