I'm in Maryland, winter lows sometimes in the teens, typicslly in the 30's.
Summer highs over 90 in July and August.
Sheldon
Another thing you'll have to take in account, MJ, see how Sheldon's layout runs along a "knee wall".
I live in a cape cod, the second floor has a shed style dormer that runs the length of the back of the house, to make room for the hallway, bathroom, and bedroom.
The front facing wall is the sloping ceiling, with the knee wall at about 46" high. You'll have to determine where your going to place that, so you can get an overall width of your space, and see what works best.
Mike.
My You Tube
Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work.
As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm in Maryland, winter lows sometimes in the teens, typicslly in the 30's. Summer highs over 90 in July and August. Sheldon
Thanks. We do have some definitely colder days, for about a week in February it struggled to get above zero for a high, but the summer highs are about the same.
mbinsewi Another thing you'll have to take in account, MJ, see how Sheldon's layout runs along a "knee wall". I live in a cape cod, the second floor has a shed style dormer that runs the length of the back of the house, to make room for the hallway, bathroom, and bedroom. The front facing wall is the sloping ceiling, with the knee wall at about 46" high. You'll have to determine where your going to place that, so you can get an overall width of your space, and see what works best. Mike.
I've already been thinking about that. If I make my knee walls 60" high it would give me 12' in that direction. If I push them out and make it shorter then I would gain floor space. Not sure what would be better at this point. If I want a peninsula then I would want shorter knee walls.
UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use
Paneling doesn't take paint very well, especially the cheaper stuff. Drywall will make for the best backdrop.
Electric heaters cost too much to run. If I'm going to run heat for this part of the building I am going to do it for the entire building and do away with the wood stove. It's probably not the safest option in the workshop anyway. It will definitely be insulated good though.
MJPinSEWI UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use Paneling doesn't take paint very well, especially the cheaper stuff. Drywall will make for the best backdrop. Electric heaters cost too much to run. If I'm going to run heat for this part of the building I am going to do it for the entire building and do away with the wood stove. It's probably not the safest option in the workshop anyway. It will definitely be insulated good though.
Drywall is also much more airtight than any kind of paneling.
That said, the train room you saw pictures of above, and the garage/workshop on the floor below have OSB board on the walls, so that things can be attached without worring about hitting studs every time.
MJPinSEWI If I'm going to run heat for this part of the building I am going to do it for the entire building and do away with the wood stove.
I bet your insurance man will like this idea, too.
And as far as the knee wall, 12' is good, even if you went out a little farther, by time you figure a 20" or 24" bench top, you'll be out enough for comfortable head room.
A 12' x 30' room! That would make an excellent around the walls layout. Makes for some nice long main line running, and plenty of space for towns, industries, etc. Maybe 30" radius (for HO anyway) on the corners, you'll be able run any equipment.
Nice!
MJPinSEWI UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use. Paneling doesn't take paint very well, especially the cheaper stuff. Drywall will make for the best backdrop.
UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use.
As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use.
I agree - better to install drywall than paneling. It would look much better for a back drop and a good back drop greatly enhances the appearance of a layout. Painting OSB blue looks rough as well and not very good. Smooth drywall offers a much nicer back drop - you can even paint background scenes on it if you have the ability to do it well. Rob Spangler has done some very nice painted back drops, for example.
I agree with the stair option where you could build proper stairs but have the bottom last 2 steps fold up if they are in the way of the shop. That is EXCELLENT because it solves the space problem on the bottom floor and lets you actually walk up vs. climb. I'm sure you would really appreciate it in the long run.
Yes, a 12 x 30 would allow 30 or 32 inch curves no problem AND as a bonus, a center penninsula would fit. Say the penninsula is 5.5 feet wide, could have a 2 foot aisle on either side and 12 inches of bench on one side and 18 inches on the other. It wouldn't have to be that narrow except where the lobe of the penninsula is. Then the penninsula could narrow down to 4 feet and you could claim the extra 1.5 feet back to aisle or the side benchwork as need.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
OK everyone has given some great ideas and enthusiasm but I have to bring this back to reality a bit. Something I haven’t talked about yet and to be honest hadn’t thought about much when I was planning a smaller layout. Budget. If I decide to go this route and renovate the attic in the workshop I need to figure out how to pay for this all. I already figured it would cost about 3K to stud, insulate, wire and drywall the space. Then there is the matter of heat. I would probably be on the low end if I said it would be another 3K. So now we’re at 6K and I haven’t even started any bench work yet. The benchwork isn’t even the most expensive part. The bigger this gets the more track, trains, structures and everything else will be needed. There isn’t really a way to say you’re going to spend X amount of dollars on a layout because of all the unknowns so how do you go about coming up with a budget for something like this?
Reality, what a concept (to quote Robin Williams)
It's true that when you add it all up, it can be a lot. My wife and I bought a bank owned and the inspector said it was probably the best forclosure/bank owned home he had seen. That said, the kitchen was what kept it from selling which was a biggie - it required all new countertops, sink, disposal and faucet and applicances and new back splash and the cupboards were dated and dirty and needed sanded and restaining. The hardwood floors from front to back need sanded and restained. The front door with threshold water rot needed replaced. The master bath and shower needed gutting and replaced.
Oh, and the unfinished basement needs finished before a layout can be built. The one plus to the basement was it was all framed in and open, which was a major box checked in my "want" list. Even with the studs all installed, it's a big job for one guy to finish 700 Sq Ft with lots of corners and boxed in ceiling beams and ducts. Hanging drywall is a two person job, and my wife had helped a lot with that, and sanding.
At purchase:
Photo from a couple weeks ago:
A bit more recent with more mud:
The moral of the story here is we couldn't do it all at once and we couldn't afford to pay contractors to do all of it either. So you work on it bit by bit over a couple of years, or maybe longer.
We are 1 1/2 years in the home and the kitchen is all upgraded and has new granite counter tops, the master bathroom has a new 2 person jetted tub new walk in shower and all new tile (water rotted subfloor has been replaced). Front door also replaced. Basement is wired, outlets installed, plumbing for bathroom ran, drywall all installed (by wife and I) and the mudding taping is about 75% done.
MJPinSEWI There isn’t really a way to say you’re going to spend X amount of dollars on a layout because of all the unknowns so how do you go about coming up with a budget for something like this?
What ever you can stash away with out interupting the family budget. That's how we are funding our small get-a-way place on our land in the North woods.
If something butts in like in, like a washing machine, or some other heavy appliance, that happens first.
I don't know what you do for a living, when I was activily working in the construction trades, I used "side job" ( driveways, patios, sidewalks, etc.) money to fund extra interest.
It all depends how bad you want it, and what your resources are, to make it work, even it it takes longer than what you'd like.
A lot of the cost depends on your taste and mindset. Are you willing to acept a good enuff, workable space, or must you have a magazine cover photo qualty,best of every thing.
I really can't see 3grand in finishing the room, maybe something I missed in the pics.
We just replaced our furance last year, under $2700. you won't need one that big.
Bench work: I'm on my 4th real layout. I have yet to spend a $100, and most of that was for caulk and screws. Yes it looks like just what it is,but it works.
Engines rolling stock buildings ect. is a life long expence,don,t need it all at once.
It all comes down to trade offs and how bad you want it
I just did a rough estimate on the space he has, studs, insulation R15, (unfaced) vapor barrier, 1/2 drywall, mud and tape, screws, nails, etc., call it an even $1000, using Menards to price things, NOT counting the 11% discount they have at certain times.
Of course, that's doing the work yourself. I don't know the municipality he lives in, but a building permit would more than likely be required.
And I haven't included a remodeled entry way, such as the stairs, or a "ships ladder" type set-up, or a folding set up.
I also don't know what electric service he has to his shop, just quessing by the little panel that's in his picture, probably 20 or 30 amps, he might want to boost that, depending on what the service at the house is, as I assume the shop is a sub-panel from the house.
No plumbing involved.
He' questimating $3000. Overall, total complete, ready to turn on the lights, and get to layout building, it could possibly be about that much.
That attic space seems like the place. Insulated, and especially if you build a knee wall instead of lettign it go all the way down where you can;t stand or anythiung anyway (this will greatly reduce the volume of space that needs heating and cooling) it should be pretty darn easy to keep it at reasonable temperature. For cooling - if the one window faces an alley, a window air conditioner would be more than sufficient. My previous layout was in what really was just a finished attic, a bit larger, but still, directly under the roof. Never too hot in the summer, even on 90+ days, with a window AC, and not even a huge one. THe usable area I had was about 12x18.
Here's probably the best overall picture I have at hand:
Directly behind where I am standing, which is in a dormer space, is a window that has the AC unit in it. I used that alcove space for my workbench (again, behind where I am standing to take that picture). The house was half of a double, so one wall is sloped with the knee wall, the other wall was full height, that was the division between my side and the neighbor. I had to make a liftout section to get in the room from the door - having the entry come up near the middle of the room means you can run the layout around the perimeter and not have to create any liftout or anything. The usable width may be enough for a penninsula, just woithout a turnback curve. I never built that on mine but I had it planned, coming out from the center of the section along the far wall (where the other window is), as I would still have 3 feet of space to either side of it for an aisle.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
riogrande5761 Reality, what a concept (to quote Robin Williams) It's true that when you add it all up, it can be a lot. My wife and I bought a bank owned and the inspector said it was probably the best forclosure/bank owned home he had seen. That said, the kitchen was what kept it from selling which was a biggie - it required all new countertops, sink, disposal and faucet and applicances and new back splash and the cupboards were dated and dirty and needed sanded and restaining. The hardwood floors from front to back need sanded and restained. The front door with threshold water rot needed replaced. The master bath and shower needed gutting and replaced. Oh, and the unfinished basement needs finished before a layout can be built. The one plus to the basement was it was all framed in and open, which was a major box checked in my "want" list. Even with the studs all installed, it's a big job for one guy to finish 700 Sq Ft with lots of corners and boxed in ceiling beams and ducts. Hanging drywall is a two person job, and my wife had helped a lot with that, and sanding. At purchase: Photo from a couple weeks ago: A bit more recent with more mud: The moral of the story here is we couldn't do it all at once and we couldn't afford to pay contractors to do all of it either. So you work on it bit by bit over a couple of years, or maybe longer. We are 1 1/2 years in the home and the kitchen is all upgraded and has new granite counter tops, the master bathroom has a new 2 person jetted tub new walk in shower and all new tile (water rotted subfloor has been replaced). Front door also replaced. Basement is wired, outlets installed, plumbing for bathroom ran, drywall all installed (by wife and I) and the mudding taping is about 75% done.
That looks really nice. I wish I had a basement like that.
Last January we started remodeling our kitchen. My wife thought we would be done by the beginning of February. I just laughed. If I can get my pictures to work the right way this time I'll post the before & after shots from the same basic vantage point. The only things we didn't do ourselves were mudding & taping the drywall and installing the countertops.
I think I should just give up on pictures
I use imgur, it's no problem. You have to choose the picture links that begin and end with img in square brackets.
mbinsewi MJPinSEWI There isn’t really a way to say you’re going to spend X amount of dollars on a layout because of all the unknowns so how do you go about coming up with a budget for something like this? What ever you can stash away with out interupting the family budget. That's how we are funding our small get-a-way place on our land in the North woods. If something butts in like in, like a washing machine, or some other heavy appliance, that happens first. I don't know what you do for a living, when I was activily working in the construction trades, I used "side job" ( driveways, patios, sidewalks, etc.) money to fund extra interest. It all depends how bad you want it, and what your resources are, to make it work, even it it takes longer than what you'd like. Mike.
I'm a maintenence mechanic so I've become pretty good at doing small engine repairs on the side. People either bring me stuff to fix or I end up buying something on the cheap that needs to be fixed and sell it for a profit. We have savings to cover most things that can go wrong in the house but my wife has some crazy idea about getting a new car. Not sure why, hers is only 20 years old.
So if you live in SE Wisconsin where is the North woods to you?
MJPinSEWISo if you live in SE Wisconsin where is the North woods to you?
West of Minocqua, off HWY 70. Pike Lake Chain. We're not on a lake, which is just across the road.
Down here, I'm kind of the neighbor lawn mower guy. I also rebuild old garden tractors, small stuff, but the place in the woods has dominated my time. That, and keeping with the needs of our small cape cod.
I think I have a bunch of stuff in my profile.
UNCLEBUTCH A lot of the cost depends on your taste and mindset. Are you willing to acept a good enuff, workable space, or must you have a magazine cover photo qualty,best of every thing. I really can't see 3grand in finishing the room, maybe something I missed in the pics. We just replaced our furance last year, under $2700. you won't need one that big. Bench work: I'm on my 4th real layout. I have yet to spend a $100, and most of that was for caulk and screws. Yes it looks like just what it is,but it works. Engines rolling stock buildings ect. is a life long expence,don,t need it all at once. It all comes down to trade offs and how bad you want it
By the time I get the walls studded, insulated, wired, and drywalled I'm already over 1K. Someone to finish off the drywall & spray it $500-$600. Stairs or fold down ladder $200-$300, I have to run a new service from the house, both windows need to be replaced and at this point I would bet I'm already over 3K.
The furnace itself will probably be cheaper but by the time I run ductwork & have it zoned it will most likely run more. There are also incedentials that I'm sure I'm forgetting. This is doing most of the work myself.
MJPinSEWI UNCLEBUTCH A lot of the cost depends on your taste and mindset. Are you willing to acept a good enuff, workable space, or must you have a magazine cover photo qualty,best of every thing. I really can't see 3grand in finishing the room, maybe something I missed in the pics. We just replaced our furance last year, under $2700. you won't need one that big. Bench work: I'm on my 4th real layout. I have yet to spend a $100, and most of that was for caulk and screws. Yes it looks like just what it is,but it works. Engines rolling stock buildings ect. is a life long expence,don,t need it all at once. It all comes down to trade offs and how bad you want it By the time I get the walls studded, insulated, wired, and drywalled I'm already over 1K. Someone to finish off the drywall & spray it $500-$600. Stairs or fold down ladder $200-$300, I have to run a new service from the house, both windows need to be replaced and at this point I would bet I'm already over 3K. The furnace itself will probably be cheaper but by the time I run ductwork & have it zoned it will most likely run more. There are also incedentials that I'm sure I'm forgetting. This is doing most of the work myself.
Several times you have used the expression "spray the drywall"? Are you refering to painting? Why would you hire someone to spray paint a space that small?
Trust me, tract houses are sprayed because it is cheap on a large scale like that, not because it is a good way to paint a house.
Yes, it may be $300 or so to get a drywall finisher to do his work, but surely you can use a roller and brush and paint the room.
And for just one room like you are doing, spraying is a bad idea in EVERY way.
The drywall you can mud, tape and finish yourself. Look at Jim's (Rio G.) basement, and he had all kinds of corners, soffits, etc to deal with. It doesn't need to be sprayed, paint it, after your satisfied with joint taping.
The windows you can do, just a lot handier to have a helper, and the electric service, yea, pay to have it done right. once the panel is in, circuits you can run.
Just thinking out loud. Do what you can, when you can.
Wishing I had that little shed in my back yard!
mbinsewi MJPinSEWI So if you live in SE Wisconsin where is the North woods to you? West of Minocqua, off HWY 70. Pike Lake Chain. We're not on a lake, which is just across the road. Down here, I'm kind of the neighbor lawn mower guy. I also rebuild old garden tractors, small stuff, but the place in the woods has dominated my time. That, and keeping with the needs of our small cape cod. I think I have a bunch of stuff in my profile. Mike.
MJPinSEWI So if you live in SE Wisconsin where is the North woods to you?
That's really up there. I only go as far as the Plainfield area if you know where that is & it's still a 2 hour drive.
I've re-built my share of GT's, right now I have a JD 312 and an old Jacobsen GT14 with a front end loader.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL MJPinSEWI UNCLEBUTCH A lot of the cost depends on your taste and mindset. Are you willing to acept a good enuff, workable space, or must you have a magazine cover photo qualty,best of every thing. I really can't see 3grand in finishing the room, maybe something I missed in the pics. We just replaced our furance last year, under $2700. you won't need one that big. Bench work: I'm on my 4th real layout. I have yet to spend a $100, and most of that was for caulk and screws. Yes it looks like just what it is,but it works. Engines rolling stock buildings ect. is a life long expence,don,t need it all at once. It all comes down to trade offs and how bad you want it By the time I get the walls studded, insulated, wired, and drywalled I'm already over 1K. Someone to finish off the drywall & spray it $500-$600. Stairs or fold down ladder $200-$300, I have to run a new service from the house, both windows need to be replaced and at this point I would bet I'm already over 3K. The furnace itself will probably be cheaper but by the time I run ductwork & have it zoned it will most likely run more. There are also incedentials that I'm sure I'm forgetting. This is doing most of the work myself. Several times you have used the expression "spray the drywall"? Are you refering to painting? Why would you hire someone to spray paint a space that small? Trust me, tract houses are sprayed because it is cheap on a large scale like that, not because it is a good way to paint a house. Yes, it may be $300 or so to get a drywall finisher to do his work, but surely you can use a roller and brush and paint the room. And for just one room like you are doing, spraying is a bad idea in EVERY way. Sheldon
I wouldn't need to have it sprayed (just primer) but for the little bit he would charge for that it's probably worth it. Especially the windows & everything would still be covered with vapor barrier so there really wouldn't be any masking. I can easily use a brush & roller but now that I think of it I own a sprayer as well & could easily do it myself. If I were to do a texture I would definitely have him do that but I don't want a texture on this.
mbinsewi The drywall you can mud, tape and finish yourself. Look at Jim's (Rio G.) basement, and he had all kinds of corners, soffits, etc to deal with. It doesn't need to be sprayed, paint it, after your satisfied with joint taping. The windows you can do, just a lot handier to have a helper, and the electric service, yea, pay to have it done right. once the panel is in, circuits you can run. Just thinking out loud. Do what you can, when you can. Wishing I had that little shed in my back yard! Mike.
Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should. Finishing drywall is something I absolutely hate and am not good at at all. This is one of those areas I would rather pay someone else to do it. As far as electrical I have a newer panel installed but I need to make sre there are enough spaces to run the needed circuits. I also need to decide how many circuits that is. The feed from the house was never updated. If the city inspector ever saw the knob & tube overhead wire running from the house he would probably freak out. I have an electrician coming in spring to run a new feed underground regardless of what I do in the attic.
MJPinSEWI Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should. Finishing drywall is something I absolutely hate and am not good at at all. This is one of those areas I would rather pay someone else to do it.
Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should. Finishing drywall is something I absolutely hate and am not good at at all. This is one of those areas I would rather pay someone else to do it.
It seems most poepole hate finishing drywall. In my case I don't enjoy it either and frankly I'm basically a novic but it came down to money. Electrical work is something I prefer others do, mainly for safety reasons, so I paid a guy to do run the wiring from the breaker box to the outlets and connect it all up. Same with plumbing. I do what I can to save money. If you are concerned about not having enough money for trains after do all the work above the shop, then thats an option, hate or not. Wife now wants a new car? More reasons. Practice makes better. And it's not in the house if it isn't perfect. Sometimes places like that are a good place to cut your teeth. Anyway, basically if you got the money, hire it out, of not, DIY.
riogrande5761 MJPinSEWI Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should. Finishing drywall is something I absolutely hate and am not good at at all. This is one of those areas I would rather pay someone else to do it. It seems most poepole hate finishing drywall. In my case I don't enjoy it either and frankly I'm basically a novic but it came down to money. Electrical work is something I prefer others do, mainly for safety reasons, so I paid a guy to do run the wiring from the breaker box to the outlets and connect it all up. Same with plumbing. I do what I can to save money. If you are concerned about not having enough money for trains after do all the work above the shop, then thats an option, hate or not. Wife now wants a new car? More reasons. Practice makes better. And it's not in the house if it isn't perfect. Sometimes places like that are a good place to cut your teeth. Anyway, basically if you got the money, hire it out, of not, DIY.
I know it's not in the house but I still want it to look good. The price I threw out there was based on some work he did for me last year. I had him fix the walls in the kitchen, living room, and bathroom of a rental property that I was getting ready to sell. That included finishing some new drywall as well as some of the old plaster walls and spraying texture in all 3 rooms and it cost me $600 materials included so I think that since this is a smaller space & no texture it would most likely be cheaper but I like to plan for worst case scenario. I feel it would be money well spent and I am comfortable running circuits, gas lines etc as these are things I do all the time at work.
Perhaps I can help a bit here I recently replaced the furance in my 1 bedroom condo wihich I rent out at about $5,000 financed over two years through the local utillity.
Joe Staten Island West
Spraying texture.......nobody does that around here anymore, people have a hard time selljng houses that have that stuff.