MJPinSEWI There isn’t really a way to say you’re going to spend X amount of dollars on a layout because of all the unknowns so how do you go about coming up with a budget for something like this?
What ever you can stash away with out interupting the family budget. That's how we are funding our small get-a-way place on our land in the North woods.
If something butts in like in, like a washing machine, or some other heavy appliance, that happens first.
I don't know what you do for a living, when I was activily working in the construction trades, I used "side job" ( driveways, patios, sidewalks, etc.) money to fund extra interest.
It all depends how bad you want it, and what your resources are, to make it work, even it it takes longer than what you'd like.
Mike.
My You Tube
Reality, what a concept (to quote Robin Williams)
It's true that when you add it all up, it can be a lot. My wife and I bought a bank owned and the inspector said it was probably the best forclosure/bank owned home he had seen. That said, the kitchen was what kept it from selling which was a biggie - it required all new countertops, sink, disposal and faucet and applicances and new back splash and the cupboards were dated and dirty and needed sanded and restaining. The hardwood floors from front to back need sanded and restained. The front door with threshold water rot needed replaced. The master bath and shower needed gutting and replaced.
Oh, and the unfinished basement needs finished before a layout can be built. The one plus to the basement was it was all framed in and open, which was a major box checked in my "want" list. Even with the studs all installed, it's a big job for one guy to finish 700 Sq Ft with lots of corners and boxed in ceiling beams and ducts. Hanging drywall is a two person job, and my wife had helped a lot with that, and sanding.
At purchase:
Photo from a couple weeks ago:
A bit more recent with more mud:
The moral of the story here is we couldn't do it all at once and we couldn't afford to pay contractors to do all of it either. So you work on it bit by bit over a couple of years, or maybe longer.
We are 1 1/2 years in the home and the kitchen is all upgraded and has new granite counter tops, the master bathroom has a new 2 person jetted tub new walk in shower and all new tile (water rotted subfloor has been replaced). Front door also replaced. Basement is wired, outlets installed, plumbing for bathroom ran, drywall all installed (by wife and I) and the mudding taping is about 75% done.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
OK everyone has given some great ideas and enthusiasm but I have to bring this back to reality a bit. Something I haven’t talked about yet and to be honest hadn’t thought about much when I was planning a smaller layout. Budget. If I decide to go this route and renovate the attic in the workshop I need to figure out how to pay for this all. I already figured it would cost about 3K to stud, insulate, wire and drywall the space. Then there is the matter of heat. I would probably be on the low end if I said it would be another 3K. So now we’re at 6K and I haven’t even started any bench work yet. The benchwork isn’t even the most expensive part. The bigger this gets the more track, trains, structures and everything else will be needed. There isn’t really a way to say you’re going to spend X amount of dollars on a layout because of all the unknowns so how do you go about coming up with a budget for something like this?
MJPinSEWI UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use. Paneling doesn't take paint very well, especially the cheaper stuff. Drywall will make for the best backdrop.
UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use.
Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work.
As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use.
Paneling doesn't take paint very well, especially the cheaper stuff. Drywall will make for the best backdrop.
I agree - better to install drywall than paneling. It would look much better for a back drop and a good back drop greatly enhances the appearance of a layout. Painting OSB blue looks rough as well and not very good. Smooth drywall offers a much nicer back drop - you can even paint background scenes on it if you have the ability to do it well. Rob Spangler has done some very nice painted back drops, for example.
I agree with the stair option where you could build proper stairs but have the bottom last 2 steps fold up if they are in the way of the shop. That is EXCELLENT because it solves the space problem on the bottom floor and lets you actually walk up vs. climb. I'm sure you would really appreciate it in the long run.
A 12' x 30' room! That would make an excellent around the walls layout. Makes for some nice long main line running, and plenty of space for towns, industries, etc. Maybe 30" radius (for HO anyway) on the corners, you'll be able run any equipment.
Yes, a 12 x 30 would allow 30 or 32 inch curves no problem AND as a bonus, a center penninsula would fit. Say the penninsula is 5.5 feet wide, could have a 2 foot aisle on either side and 12 inches of bench on one side and 18 inches on the other. It wouldn't have to be that narrow except where the lobe of the penninsula is. Then the penninsula could narrow down to 4 feet and you could claim the extra 1.5 feet back to aisle or the side benchwork as need.
MJPinSEWI If I'm going to run heat for this part of the building I am going to do it for the entire building and do away with the wood stove.
I bet your insurance man will like this idea, too.
And as far as the knee wall, 12' is good, even if you went out a little farther, by time you figure a 20" or 24" bench top, you'll be out enough for comfortable head room.
Nice!
MJPinSEWI UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use Paneling doesn't take paint very well, especially the cheaper stuff. Drywall will make for the best backdrop. Electric heaters cost too much to run. If I'm going to run heat for this part of the building I am going to do it for the entire building and do away with the wood stove. It's probably not the safest option in the workshop anyway. It will definitely be insulated good though.
UNCLEBUTCH Just thinking outloud again; Was it me. Insulate the poop out of it. I wouldn't screw around with sheet rock/mudding. Get some lower end panneling,nail it up,, done.I would check out electic base board heaters,no duct work. As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use
As to the stairs, I helped a guy once with the same issue. The last 2 steps were built spereate and hinged, they folded up when not in use
Electric heaters cost too much to run. If I'm going to run heat for this part of the building I am going to do it for the entire building and do away with the wood stove. It's probably not the safest option in the workshop anyway. It will definitely be insulated good though.
Drywall is also much more airtight than any kind of paneling.
That said, the train room you saw pictures of above, and the garage/workshop on the floor below have OSB board on the walls, so that things can be attached without worring about hitting studs every time.
Sheldon
mbinsewi Another thing you'll have to take in account, MJ, see how Sheldon's layout runs along a "knee wall". I live in a cape cod, the second floor has a shed style dormer that runs the length of the back of the house, to make room for the hallway, bathroom, and bedroom. The front facing wall is the sloping ceiling, with the knee wall at about 46" high. You'll have to determine where your going to place that, so you can get an overall width of your space, and see what works best. Mike.
Another thing you'll have to take in account, MJ, see how Sheldon's layout runs along a "knee wall".
I live in a cape cod, the second floor has a shed style dormer that runs the length of the back of the house, to make room for the hallway, bathroom, and bedroom.
The front facing wall is the sloping ceiling, with the knee wall at about 46" high. You'll have to determine where your going to place that, so you can get an overall width of your space, and see what works best.
I've already been thinking about that. If I make my knee walls 60" high it would give me 12' in that direction. If I push them out and make it shorter then I would gain floor space. Not sure what would be better at this point. If I want a peninsula then I would want shorter knee walls.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm in Maryland, winter lows sometimes in the teens, typicslly in the 30's. Summer highs over 90 in July and August. Sheldon
I'm in Maryland, winter lows sometimes in the teens, typicslly in the 30's.
Summer highs over 90 in July and August.
Thanks. We do have some definitely colder days, for about a week in February it struggled to get above zero for a high, but the summer highs are about the same.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I just moved from a house where I had my layout in the second floor of my large detached garage/shop. The building is 32 x 40 with a 24 x 40 second floor accessed via a fixed, normal staircase. The whole building is insulated, but only the upstairs had central heat and A/C. I seldom heated or cooled the space when I was not out there, the quality of the insulation job did help limit temperature extreems. In the most extreem weather, I would turn on the A/C or the heat, a forced hot air propane gas furnace. Here are few photos: Sheldon
I just moved from a house where I had my layout in the second floor of my large detached garage/shop.
The building is 32 x 40 with a 24 x 40 second floor accessed via a fixed, normal staircase.
The whole building is insulated, but only the upstairs had central heat and A/C.
I seldom heated or cooled the space when I was not out there, the quality of the insulation job did help limit temperature extreems.
In the most extreem weather, I would turn on the A/C or the heat, a forced hot air propane gas furnace.
Here are few photos:
Thanks, that helps a lot. Just out of curiosity, where about are you located? What are the tempratire extremes?
mbinsewi You could also remove the sash from either of the upstairs windows, which would work great for getting lumber, and building materials up there. Smaller stuff you could put in buckets and haul up with a rope through the scuttle. Mike.
You could also remove the sash from either of the upstairs windows, which would work great for getting lumber, and building materials up there.
Smaller stuff you could put in buckets and haul up with a rope through the scuttle.
Absolutely. The window on the opposite side faces the alley and I definitely would have any drywall brought in through there. I remember when they did our house and they just craned it in through a window in like 5 minutes compared to me trying to haul it upstairs a sheet at a time. I’m sure it will cost a bit more but if it keeps me from having a heart attack it will be money well spent. Most of the other materials are relatively light and can be handed up through a window or scuttle.
Ah, too bad. Maybe get a hoist with a rope on a pully to get stuff up there then.
riogrande5761 MJPinSEWI I would take care of most of the labor myself as well with the exception of installing a furnace and mudding the drywall. I have a guy that will mud and spray everything for 5-600 and do it much faster and better than I ever could. Mudding 700 sq ft of basement wall and ceiling area's has been a large task for me, but we have a lot of home renovation expenses so am trying to recover the bank account, otherwise would have preferred to have all that done by others. Looking at the space where the ladder is and the opening to the attic, it does look like a stair up could be built, even a fairly steep stair, with a handrail on one side, or am I mistaken? I can imagine it will get old climbing even a fold down ladder (like I had in my down house) because it isn't much better than what you have now. With stairs, even steep stairs, you could carry stuff up and down much easier and it sounds like there would be many trips. Having the attic be more accessible that way would be a huge help.
MJPinSEWI I would take care of most of the labor myself as well with the exception of installing a furnace and mudding the drywall. I have a guy that will mud and spray everything for 5-600 and do it much faster and better than I ever could.
I would take care of most of the labor myself as well with the exception of installing a furnace and mudding the drywall. I have a guy that will mud and spray everything for 5-600 and do it much faster and better than I ever could.
Mudding 700 sq ft of basement wall and ceiling area's has been a large task for me, but we have a lot of home renovation expenses so am trying to recover the bank account, otherwise would have preferred to have all that done by others.
Looking at the space where the ladder is and the opening to the attic, it does look like a stair up could be built, even a fairly steep stair, with a handrail on one side, or am I mistaken? I can imagine it will get old climbing even a fold down ladder (like I had in my down house) because it isn't much better than what you have now. With stairs, even steep stairs, you could carry stuff up and down much easier and it sounds like there would be many trips. Having the attic be more accessible that way would be a huge help.
I would have to do some measuring but I feel like even the steepest of staircases would get too close to the service door. At least the ladder could be folded up out of the way when not in use. And before anyone suggests it, I cannot add an exterior staircase. I know that would make it much easier to enter but it would be a major renovation and the city would get involved with permits saying it’s being converted to a living space etc.
riogrande5761 Attics can get pretty hot in summer, even up north. But if well insulated and you have attic fans to pull air through it might keep it from getting extremely hot. I can't think high heat would be good for trains, let alone the layout. People say it's the wood that expands and contracts causing issues with the track so you can try sealing the wood/bench-work with a water sealer to minimize the expansion/contraction effects. I've probably put roughly 3k into the basement so far, but it has heating ducts already in it. The money so far includes plumbing to a basement bathroom, electric outlets, drywall, mud and other hardware. It was already insulated when built in 05/06. I've been doing all the drywall and mudding myself to save on labor costs.
Attics can get pretty hot in summer, even up north. But if well insulated and you have attic fans to pull air through it might keep it from getting extremely hot. I can't think high heat would be good for trains, let alone the layout.
People say it's the wood that expands and contracts causing issues with the track so you can try sealing the wood/bench-work with a water sealer to minimize the expansion/contraction effects.
I've probably put roughly 3k into the basement so far, but it has heating ducts already in it. The money so far includes plumbing to a basement bathroom, electric outlets, drywall, mud and other hardware. It was already insulated when built in 05/06. I've been doing all the drywall and mudding myself to save on labor costs.
After some quick calculations last night I would be looking at about $3000 for insulation, drywall & electrical. The big unknown here would be the cost of a furnace. I had already been considering gas heat in the lower level so so this may be doable. How important is climate control in the summer? I don’t normally get a lot of time to spend on this type of hobby in the summer because of other commitments but I’m thinking more about the layout itself suffering from the heat and humidity. I don’t like the idea of heating it 24/7 all winter and I really don’t like the idea of having to run air all summer when I don’t get a chance to be in there.
riogrande5761 Finishing that attic is the ticket. It's not that different than me finishing my basement - drywall and insulation, outlets etc and lighting. Looks like a decent space. Too bad there aren't stairs instead of a ladder.
Finishing that attic is the ticket. It's not that different than me finishing my basement - drywall and insulation, outlets etc and lighting. Looks like a decent space. Too bad there aren't stairs instead of a ladder.
The space is pretty decent size. Some quick measurements & because of the roof line I would have 12 or 14' by 29' to work with. I agree about the ladder but I would probably replace that with one of those folding pull down staircases. Not ideal but better. I hope I can afford to do this. I'm sure it's not going to be cheap, but not as expensive as re-doing teh foundation.
MJPinSEWI UNCLEBUTCH I use IMgur. I click on pic to enlarg, then the right click copy paste thing, can only move one at a time.
UNCLEBUTCH I use IMgur. I click on pic to enlarg, then the right click copy paste thing, can only move one at a time.
I use IMgur. I click on pic to enlarg, then the right click copy paste thing, can only move one at a time.
Picture came out this time but ti still doesn't seem quite right.
BigDaddy I don't know what you are doing and I like solving these mysteries. There are 2 views you see of your own pics. One has a list of links to the right of the pics. The other you have to hover your cursor over the top right and click on Get Share Links. Copy the BB link and paste it in your text. Do not use any of the link or photo icons to do that. it ought to look like (img)https://i.imgur.com/Ju67mOV.jpg(/img) except they won't be parenthesis, they will be the square brackets.
I don't know what you are doing and I like solving these mysteries. There are 2 views you see of your own pics. One has a list of links to the right of the pics. The other you have to hover your cursor over the top right and click on Get Share Links.
Copy the BB link and paste it in your text. Do not use any of the link or photo icons to do that.
it ought to look like (img)https://i.imgur.com/Ju67mOV.jpg(/img) except they won't be parenthesis, they will be the square brackets.
Thanks, I will try that next time. Anyway, these are the pictures I was refering to in my last post.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
mbinsewi I don't use imgur, so I'm no help. Have you read the instructions on the top of the General Didcussion forum? Somebody will be along. Mike.
I don't use imgur, so I'm no help. Have you read the instructions on the top of the General Didcussion forum? Somebody will be along.
Yes I did and I thought I was doing it right but apparently I'm not as good with computers as I thought I was.