The details were developed by other club members, and published in the 2013 HOn3 Annual.
Basically, a 3/8" threaded rod is fixed into the lower leg section. An upper leg section of 2x2, sanded smooth, is bored to accept the threaded rod through a threaded T-nut on the bottom of the upper section. The top of the upper section rotates against a bearing plate (piece of plywood). The top section is rotated, extending or shortening the amount of threaded rod between upper and lower leg sections, which adjusts the height of the leg.
You simply reach under the module corner during setup, and twist the upper leg section to raise or lower the corner of the module. No more crawling on the floor and adjusting legs at the bottom.
When first made, the top of the upper leg section was a 1" diameter dowel glued into the 2x2. This 1" dowel fit into a hole in the bearing plate on the module, sort of locking it in place. This proved to be not all that important - the modules were pretty rigid when clamped together, and the legs adjusted without the dowel and hole.
Some folks used PVC pipe for the top section instead of 2x2. Basically, anything you make move up and down on the threaded rod will work. You want the upper section to be comfortable when twisting with your hand for adjustment.
Fred W
fwrightThe two piece legs are drilled for threaded rod to allow top adjustment of the leg length - most venues where we set up have very uneven floors. We mandate top adjustment to prevent back injuries and crawling on the floor to adjust leg length.
I am interested in the details of your "top adjustment of leg length." It sounds promising—I'm getting too old for stooping and crawling.
fwright—I am interested in seeing the details of your "top adjustment of leg length." It sounds like a great idea—I'm getting too old to stoop and crawl.
Do plug-in track lighting instead, conponents are cheap (many times free if you know the right people or buy the cans on e-bay) and you can use screw in LED's, works great, my whole bacement was done for less than $500, way less and that includes the old bulbs (CFL's) and the new bulbs (just replaced all the CFL's) LED's.
Fred:
Thanks for suggesting the LED T8 tubes. I have done a little research on them and they work great IF you have the correct 'instant on' ballast. The club house is in a very old building so we would have to get a couple of sample bulbs to test things out.
Ed:
Cleaning the fixtures is certainly a smart idea.
The ceiling is only eight feet high, or maybe less, so getting to the light fixtures won't require huge ladders.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
And, speaking of lighting:
I recommend thinking a lot before building a section of a permanent layout under a light fixture. 'Cause you may have to reach it later.
There's a big ole club I know of where they did that. In many locations.
Ed
fwright hon30critter Lighting is adequate. I suspect that fresh fluorescent tubes might brighten things considerably. One wall is dark blue and the others have a wide dark blue stripe on them. Painting the walls a brighter colour will help a lot too. Costco is now carrying 4ft LED replacement tubes at reasonable prices (subsidized by the power company). I just bought some for the house and was pleasantly surprised by the increase in brightness. Pop-in, no rewiring required. I still had F40 tubes and magnetic ballasts, and the LED replacement (advertised as T8 replacement) worked fine. Fred W
hon30critter Lighting is adequate. I suspect that fresh fluorescent tubes might brighten things considerably. One wall is dark blue and the others have a wide dark blue stripe on them. Painting the walls a brighter colour will help a lot too.
Lighting is adequate. I suspect that fresh fluorescent tubes might brighten things considerably. One wall is dark blue and the others have a wide dark blue stripe on them. Painting the walls a brighter colour will help a lot too.
Costco is now carrying 4ft LED replacement tubes at reasonable prices (subsidized by the power company). I just bought some for the house and was pleasantly surprised by the increase in brightness. Pop-in, no rewiring required. I still had F40 tubes and magnetic ballasts, and the LED replacement (advertised as T8 replacement) worked fine.
Lowes and Home Depot also have those 4 foot LED replacement tubes.
I looked at them but then just bought a whole new 4 foot LED shop light. I installed it this morning. It is bright, and I even like the color better.
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
hon30critter I got to see the new 'Club House' tonight. Compared to the hole we were in, it is fantastic! The main room is about 25' x 32' and there is also a kitchen area and a small storage area about 8' x 10'. There are lots of outlets around the main room. Lighting is adequate. I suspect that fresh fluorescent tubes might brighten things considerably. One wall is dark blue and the others have a wide dark blue stripe on them. Painting the walls a brighter colour will help a lot too. Dave
I got to see the new 'Club House' tonight. Compared to the hole we were in, it is fantastic! The main room is about 25' x 32' and there is also a kitchen area and a small storage area about 8' x 10'. There are lots of outlets around the main room. Lighting is adequate. I suspect that fresh fluorescent tubes might brighten things considerably. One wall is dark blue and the others have a wide dark blue stripe on them. Painting the walls a brighter colour will help a lot too.
I've worked on fluorescent lighting professionally. I have noticed an incredible increase in light when the white "ceiling pans" are cleaned. They are, after all, reflectors. And they reflect better when they're actually white. Clean diffusers, if there are any, also contribute.
Re: Free-mo.
If you want to entertain the concept of Free-mo, I recommend going here:
http://www.free-mo.org
And clicking on, up top, "What is Free-mo?" and then "The Standard".
If "you guys" choose to build to the official standards, you can take your modules "anywhere", if you choose, and play with the other kids. And they can visit, too.
On, the other hand, you may find that a strict following of the standards just won't work out for your crew, but is still useful as guidance for your own layout. Sorta pick-and-choose.
Either way, the standards have evolved and are presently pretty reliable. So maybe some of your research will have been done for you.
Congrats on getting what is likely an excellent space.
Best wishes,
ATSFGuyHow big is the layout going to be?
That is a question that has yet to be answered. I haven't seen the new space yet so I can't comment on layout size other than to say that the room is 800 sq.ft. The portable layout will take approximately 216 sq. ft. given a three foot aisle around all four sides. We could build the permanent layout to take up the entire 800 sq. ft., but build it so that it could be partially taken apart to create space for setting up the portable layout when needed for servicing.
There are lots of options.
One question cos my brain hurts and I’m getting confused. In your last post you refer to a portable layout and a travelling layout, are they one and the same thing?
Hi JaBear:
I am speaking of two separate layouts.
The portable (travelling) modular layout is 6' x 12' and packs very nicely into two 2' x 4' x 5' high boxes on wheels. It is actually a very creative design given the way it all goes together.
The new 'permanent' layout will be an entirely separate beast but we may set it up so that the portable layout can be attached as an extension. The old permanent layout has gone to the scrap yard. It was comprised of 2' x 4' modules for the most part but because of some inconsistencies between the modules we decided that saving them would be more work that building new ones, that is if we decide to go the modular route again.
I strongly agree that we should allow for space for the portable layout to be set up as soon as possible.
How big is the layout going to be?
It is best to have a few people or one even (dosn't take long to cut the components) that has a table saw to cut all the modular peices. A small group can put them together. Once they are built and put together go for scenery as a group, otherwise you can get a real mishmash of styles. You could build a three module yard and move it in one peice by adding a 2'x6' temporary wood to both sides, just for the move and proubly have no damage. I have moved a two section one by myself without this with no damage. My layout is very light weight and I can lift a 4'x4' return loop, fully sceniced with a large rock canyon with one hand (could do it with three fingers before the plaster work).
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
mlehmanIf it does end up in a space that could be expandable from time to time, you might anticipate that by adding at least one full-on FREMO interface to the original layout whether or not the layout is designed with it in place, This would also allow guest modules to link up easily. Taking adfvantage of the opportunity to add guest exhibits from time to time is a good way to freshen things and get more return visitors in a large display setting if the station provides space for that.
More good points!
The concept of being able to add interfaces to our portable layout has been in place for a long time. In our old clubhouse we had an around the walls modular layout that was purposely built at the same height as our travelling layout. The plan (never realized) was to be able to link the two layouts together.
The biggest challenge was the lack of space. Our new clubhouse will give us a lot more flexibility to do that sort of thing IF we want to. The 'IF' raises a whole new set of questions about how to build the new layout. If we don't allow space for the portable layout to be set up in the clubhouse so we can work on it, then I think the reliability of the portable layout will go to you know where in a hurry. Logic suggests that we should build the permanent layout with the ability to attach the portable layout to it if for no other reason than to be able to maintain the travelling layout. We could have a permanent layout and the travelling layout as two separate layouts in the same room. However, we only have 800 sq. ft. to work with and the travelling layout would take up 1/4 of that space by itself.
Decisions, decisions!!
Thanks Mike.
A thought on options 2 and 3, but implicit in Option 1.
If the members are all or mostly experienced modelers with good woodworking skills, then letting each go their own way in creating the entire is feasible.
If there's a wide variance in skills/tools available among the members, it might be wise to build the modules as a group project at least to the point of being able to lay track. That way the skilled members can ensure consistency and standardization.
Why? Even if all are skilled, getting a good match between modules is critical and not as easy as it sounds. Finishing to that point ensures that there's at least a workable chance that when the modules come back with track laid on them and awaiting the link up, things will work out OK. Best practice would be aimed at establishing at least a continuous track center line across all module boundaries before they go their separate ways to be finished by individual members. Doing that helps ensure what comes in between, like locating curves and other track features so they will be accurate enough to suit your needs.
Also, using smaller modules creates a need for more accuracy in greater quantity, although rationalizing a track plan so that larger modules will be used for larger track features like a yard makes a lot of sense. That's where the FREMO concept proves useful, although I agree that for a club concept that depicts a complete stand-alone layout unlikely to be broken down choosing to observe just the standards needed to get the club's needs met makes sense.
If it does end up in a space that could be expandable from time to time, you might anticipate that by adding at least one full-on FREMO interface to the original layout whether or not the layout is designed with it in place, This would also allow guest modules to link up easily. Taking adfvantage of the opportunity to add guest exhibits from time to time is a good way to freshen things and get more return visitors in a large display setting if the station provides space for that.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehmanI think you need to consider why you want modules. If the only reasojn is to deal with the eventuality of moving, then like rrebell noted, why worry about the fancy stuff required for the end-to-end connections? Build them so they can be separated and forgo the fancy module interchange stuff and you'll save a bunch of time and effort.
Hi Mike:
The reason I am asking all these questions is so that I can offer informed suggestions about what our layout construction options are. Modules are just one option (actually they offer several options given the size variations that are possible).
Here is a summary of the options as I see them. These are NOT in order of preference:
1. Build a single large structure similar to what is done for permanent home layouts. Doing it in reasonably sized sections that can be dismantled at some point in the future seems to make sense. Theoretically, the work can be spread out among all members of the club, with suitable training included for those without experience.
2. Build a 'formal' modular layout, i.e. 2' x 4' standard modules with matching end panels. This could be done in several ways:
a. Each person builds and owns their module(s) from the ground up,
b. The club builds the basic modules as a group and individuals or small groups finish them,
c. The club does everything as a group.
d. I'm sure there are other possibilities.
3. Go 'Free-Mo' with each member building their own sections. Whether or not we strictly adhere to the formal Free-Mo rules is another question.
As it stands now, the layout isn't going to be moved around much if ever. It might get moved to the Allandale Station or it might not. We don't know if that will ever happen. We might find a better club house, but that is doubtful given what we can afford to pay for rent.
Just to throw a curve into the discussion, it might be smarter to decide on a layout design before choosing the method of construction. For example, if we model the Allandale yard, doing that in 2' x 4' sections might not be the smartest approach.
Thanks again everyone for your input! My wee brain is a bit overloaded!
Best wishes to all!
ROBERT PETRICKOn another note . . . How's your club set up? Not being nosy or anything, just curious. Is it chartered, registered, or incorporated, etc?
Hi Robert:
I'm not certain of the exact status of the club but I know that it is not-for-profit. We do not have charitable status.
fwrighthope this helps Fred W
Thanks Fred:
It does help a lot. Obviously just using a $ figure for the basic module parts could be misleading so it helps to see the approximate costs for a fully finished module as well.
Dave,
I think you need to consider why you want modules. If the only reasojn is to deal with the eventuality of moving, then like rrebell noted, why worry about the fancy stuff required for the end-to-end connections? Build them so they can be separated and forgo the fancy module interchange stuff and you'll save a bunch of time and effort.
If you do anticipate something opther than a potential move in the event a different space is needed fort the layout and do want to buiild something ready to take apart (RTTA?), then the FREMO standards work well and provide for a lot of useful future flexibility.
For legs I riped the 1x4 and made an l shaped leg, very cheap and very strong. 1x4's are some of the cheapest wood in pine and yes you can get straight ones at the big box store. You need to look at them as cut up peices, so a 10' board might get you 4 or 5 peices that are 22 1/2". The size I use for the ends and middle, a 10' boad might yeild two 4' peices and an end, etc.
hon30critter Personally, I'm not really in favour of moving the club into the station. I can see there being a lot of complications.
Personally, I'm not really in favour of moving the club into the station. I can see there being a lot of complications.
Yeah, you're probably right. Once you get involved with bureaucrats and local politicians (not to mention Dept of Environmental Regulation) there's no end to it.
On another note . . . How's your club set up? Not being nosy or anything, just curious. Is it chartered, registered, or incorporated, etc? I belonged to a club that was registered as a non-profit educational club. Not to avoid taxes or liability or anything, but set up to receive charitable contributions. The 501(c) designation (or the Canadian equivalent) might encourage local businesses to contribute stuff.
We had a guy who was half Baptist preacher and half used car salesman; a real white shoes and white belt kind of guy. Managed to talk a lot of people into donating a lot of stuff: building materials, supplies, paint, nuts-and-bolts, and whatnot. Plywood, sheetrock, sheetrock mud, light fixtures, ceiling tiles . . . even a new basin for the bathroom. A lot of scratch-and-dent, discontinued items, and mismatched, odd color paint, but most of it very usable. Construction companies always have a lot of left over lumber and plywood scraps. Not saying you should go dumpster diving or anything, but asking around might really help.
Also, you might be able to get some city park and recreation grants or something. But be careful, public tax-payer grants often come with a lot of strings attached.
Anyhow, good luck.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
hon30critter It would be helpful to have a basic idea of what modules cost per foot to do the basic construction, i.e. legs and frame, sub roadbed, roadbed, track, wiring and basic scenery like ballast. Let's leave out buildings, vehicles, turnouts, mountains, valleys, bridges, rivers, roads etc. and just assume that there are a couple of straight tracks. I know that is an oversimplification, but it would be nice to be able to tell club members that if they do 'X' feet of module, the starting cost will be 'YY' dollars. Anyone have any idea of the basic cost? Thanks Dave
It would be helpful to have a basic idea of what modules cost per foot to do the basic construction, i.e. legs and frame, sub roadbed, roadbed, track, wiring and basic scenery like ballast. Let's leave out buildings, vehicles, turnouts, mountains, valleys, bridges, rivers, roads etc. and just assume that there are a couple of straight tracks. I know that is an oversimplification, but it would be nice to be able to tell club members that if they do 'X' feet of module, the starting cost will be 'YY' dollars. Anyone have any idea of the basic cost?
Thanks
I don't think of it as by the foot. Our HOn3 modules are typically 2ft by 3-4ft in length. Because we don't have a permanent home, portability is important. One person can lift and carry up to 4ft, but that is the max. Modules that were built longer often don't get used.
Usually there are 2-3 modules in a module set for a yard, large industry, special scene, junction, etc. Modules are made wider where the scene or track arrangement demands it. Corners and fitter pieces will go down to as narrow as 12", with a tapered piece connecting to the 2ft modular standard width.
I would say it would be very difficult to build a 2 module set to our specs for less than $500, all up, and would most likely end up in the $700+ range with a structure or two.
We require furniture grade 3/4" plywood end plates, anything less just won't take the stress of transport and clamping. Our newer legs are generally made from 2x2 - finding straight pieces of 2x2 is a shopping adventure. The two piece legs are drilled for threaded rod to allow top adjustment of the leg length - most venues where we set up have very uneven floors. We mandate top adjustment to prevent back injuries and crawling on the floor to adjust leg length.
Add roadbed, track, turnouts, turnout motors, DCC and accessory bus wiring, face plates for throttles to plug in and turnout controls (required both sides), Anderson connectors at both ends, scenic cover (rock molds and hill material add up), and the costs are there. It's really not too different from an all up cost for a 4x8 MR starter (project) layout. We have less square footage, but are building to a higher quality level.
Other mandates are painted fascia (club standard color), black curtains from floor to fascia (attach with Velcro), and a circuit breaker for each module set. Then and only then is a module set show-ready.
Not all the money is required up front. Building a show-ready module set usually takes a full year or more. And we do work together on things like curtains, fascia paint, and specialized tools.
hope this helps
Thanks rrebell,
Cost, my entire layout cost arround $500 for all modules including wiring, it is a 15'x30' giant dogbone, that includes legs, framing, bolts, screws, and plaster cloth and wiring. It dose not include the cork or track or other stuff. One module (2'x4') cost less than $35 at todays prices, less plaster cloth which is cheap if bought in bulk on e-bay.
ROBERT PETRICKI'm more interested in the Allendale Station. I've seen photos. It's a beauty. Will the layout you're talking about be there? Or is securing room there for a layout still in the early preliminary planning stages?
Good question!
Here is a bit of the history and some photos:
http://www.eraarch.ca/project/allandale-station/
Here is the situation as I understand it. I may have some of my facts wrong:
The city of Barrie has spent millions of dollars restoring the Allandale station but it currently sits empty. What future uses it will be put to remain up in the air. The city has asked for proposals for tenants for the main building and the restaurant and they have received some offers, but they haven't been able to attract the 'quality' of tenant that they would like. Putting a fast food restaurant or a sporting goods store into the facility would seem to defeat the whole concept behind the high grade restoration.
The section that we would probably be housed in is the original Station Master's office which is the square building on the right when looking at the station from Kempenfelt Bay (east). So far as I know there are no firm plans for that building's use.
IIUC, there is another problem that has yet to be addressed. There is still a lot of contaminated soil around the buildings, and the cost to remove that is apparently pretty steep. The city hasn't made the decision to move forward on that.
So, that's where things stand. The whole project is on vacation in the Carribean dancing the Limbo!
The difference of a module to a segment or section of a layout is quite simple - a module has standardized ends, so it can interface with any other module which is built to the same standards, while swections or segmnet only fit in their bespoke place of a layout. Modules don´t have to be square or rectangular, they can be of about any shape you can think of.
I strongly recommend the modular approach, according to the Freemo or any other standard the folks in your club can agree upon. I also like the idea of a "project manager", whose job it should be to coordinate the development of a master plan for the layout and the assignement of who is going to build which module to the club members.
I have been a member of a round robin group building a NG layout this way and it worked nicely! When I moved away, I simply donated the modules I had built to the group, which has the layout set up in the basement of the home of one of the group´s members.
hon30critter Sorry, I should have answered your question sooner.
Sorry, I should have answered your question sooner.
Hey Dave-
Naw, don't worry about that. Others have commented on the idea of building wood 'modular' frames (up to about 2' by 8') in the workshop or in member's garages or someplace and bringing them into the layout room and assembling and connecting them together.
I'm more interested in the Allendale Station. I've seen photos. It's a beauty. Will the layout you're talking about be there? Or is securing room there for a layout still in the early preliminary planning stages? Or pre-preliminary?
ROBERT PETRICKCan you define 'module'? In certain instances that word has a particular meaning.
Robert:
Sorry, I should have answered your question sooner. I'm using the term 'module' fairly loosely. In other words, building the layout in detachable sections vs one solid structure. I deliberately haven't defined the size of the modules or how easily separated they should be so I can see what everyone has to suggest.