NCE.
It would be appoximately the same as a diode matrix for twin coil. You need to add the Button Board to the Switch-8 to get the button inputs. FOr each output of the Switch 8, there are 2 button connections ont eh button board, 1N,1R, 2N,2R, etc. This would be wired through a momentary pushbutton and a diode matrix exactly the same as you would wire a diode matrix for twin coil switch motors even the connection references (1N, 1R, etc) are the same as those shown on setups for diode matrix routing.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
Who makes Switch-8s?
Any idea where I could find the diode matrix wiring plan?
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I'm just glad someone got it at all, since I tried to not make it super obvious and "duct tape fan" was the first thing I could come up with. They used to show it here on some of the more obscure channels, usually late at night, used to watch it all the time.
I'm still mad at you guys for keeping Rush and sending us Celine Dione.
If it weren;t foor the free switches, I'd suggest maybe Switch-8's and pushbuttons with a diode matrix to have 1 button per yard track, push the track you want to use. No one would have to know that oh yeah, you can call up accessory 401 for yard track 1. That capability would lay in wait for when people wanted to do it. Such a solution wouldn't really cost any more than rotary switches - IF you had to buy them.
rrinker would not use a stationary decoder method that did not also have local buttons that you press - dialing up a turnout address is a pain in the behind no matter what DCC system you use. The stationary decoder advantage comes when you add dispatcher control later on.
Good point!
I would like to have Tortoises on every turnout precisely so we can set up a Dispatcher system down the road. I think some of the members who are questioning the need for remote control of every turnout may be too used to just running trains around and around. Getting the club into operations will probably take some time, but we do need to have the layout set up properly for that if and when it happens.
That may preclude the use of manual rotary switches down the road, but I can't see any reason why we can't start out with them.
Old Fat RobertDave: I get the reference. I even have plans for Port Asbestos on my current layout.
Just don't use the real thing for your scenery!
Dave: I get the reference. I even have plans for Port Asbestos on my current layout.
Old Fat Robert
rrinkerRed/green LEDS (not to be confused with the duct tape fan)
Randy - I wonder how many will get the reference. Red Green was a truly significant Canadian comic! He ranks up there with Mike Myers IMHO. A close friend of mine worked on the Red Green show for many years as a promoter. He sold replays of the series all over the world.
Thanks for the humour!
The plans that I have for yard ladder control do require rotary switches with two decks. The ones I have seen on eBay actually aren't that expensive. We need one 6 position double deck switch for each end of the yard. The other place that I am considering using a rotary switch is in the service area, but it would require 9 positions to do the whole thing. If we can't find the proper switch it really isn't a big deal.
I would not use a stationary decoder method that did not also have local buttons that you press - dialing up a turnout address is a pain in the behind no matter what DCC system you use. The stationary decoder advantage comes when you add dispatcher control later on.
The rotary switch track selection is simple enough - as long as you don;t have more tracks than positions on the switches being used. Then you have to somehow indicate that the last position on the first switch points to the second switch which is used to select higher number tracks. As for diodes, as long as you stick with Tortoises and don;t go for any of those higher current alternatives like Cobalt, the little glass diodes you can get in packs of 100 for $3 are sufficient for the task, so if the rotary switches are free (not cheap if you had to buy them) then the only real cost is the Tortoises. If the rotary switches have more than one deck, you cna just tie indicator LEDs to the second deck, but if you want true indication that the Tortoises have moved, you will need to run wires through the various Tortoise contacts to control the LEDs. Just one pair, to the contact that is closed when a particular track is selected, unless you want unselected tracks one color and the selected track another. Red/green LEDS (not to be confused with the duct tape fan) could be confusing for anyone who is colorblind.
(This post might be better off in the DCC and Electronics section, but since it mainly concerns the club's forward progress I will leave it here. If neccessary, I will start a second thread on the electronic details in the DCC section.)
Tonight I started to delve into the electronics, specifically yard ladder turnout control. Why not start with something simple and straight forward eh?
A few weeks ago I found an article about using rotary switches and a few diodes to control yard routes. It was in the August 2011 issue of MR. Somebody in the forums was discussing the issue but I can't remember who so I can't give proper credit where due.
The article explains how to create a truth table to identify the connections and diode locations. All that is required will be the rotary switches and diodes, and likely some LEDs for route identification. There are more complicated solutions offered in the article but they involve adding additional SPDT switches which to me just makes the route selection process more complicated.
Some of you will ask why we are not going to go with stationary decoders and the reasons are pretty straight forward. The first is cost. One of our members has a pile of NOS rotary switches which he will donate, and diodes cost about 10 cents each. Stationary decoders cost .... let's just say a lot more.
The second reason is simplicity of operation. Nobody will have to look up turnout or route addresses. You want track #5, so turn the rotary switch to track #5. Done!
I have discovered that several of our members are not well experienced with DCC. In fact, a few of them need a bit of help just getting their locomotive addresses programmed into their throttles. Why on earth would we add more complexity to the layout operation by going to DCC turnout control when it would simply alienate some members of the club. However, just so you know, if and when we (my buddy Henk and I) get elected to the Executive one of the things we plan on doing is setting up DCC classes so our members will have the opportunity to learn how to really use the system. We can always install DCC stationary decoders down the road. By the way, I'll be in the classes, not teaching them.
Tuesday is the big night for the election. So far nobody else has put their name forward so I guess we are in.
Cheers everybody!
rrinkerI would suggest you instrcut the less experienced peoople to do just that, leave the heads up. Common beginner mistake when nailing track is to drive it in too hard, crushing the tie and narrowing the rail gauge.
That is the plan.
Thanks Randy
I use nails to secure track to the plywood surface. But I drill pilot holes with a pin vise. And, I stop short of nailing into the ties. As a last step, I use a nail punch to carefully finish the nailing.
Rich
Alton Junction
I would suggest you instrcut the less experienced peoople to do just that, leave the heads up. Common beginner mistake when nailing track is to drive it in too hard, crushing the tie and narrowing the rail gauge. Have them leave the nails not fully seated, and allow oneof the more experienced people to confirm the alignment and seat the nails. That way more people can be involved without it resulting in a lot of redoing. As they gain experience, they can move to the finish gang.
rrebellwhy aren't you using caulk to secure the track, much safer and eisier to undo if a mistake is made.
We thought that the track nails would be easier to adjust. We will have a number of different people laying track, some more experienced than others, so no doubt there will have to be corrections made to eliminate kinks etc. I guess you are suggesting that the track nails will be hard to pull. If we leave the heads up a bit then I believe that we will be able to pull them with side cutters. Once the ballast is glued down we would have the choice of setting them all the way down or removing them. Does that make sense?
hon30critter We built the framework for the first module tonight. It went together very smoothly and quickly. Everybody was happy to see things start to take shape. Randy: We decided to return the roadbed and track to Rapido. We are going to use 3/4" plywood as a base, with 1/2" of Homasote on top of that, and then HO scale cork roadbed. We did discuss using the Rapido roadbed in the manner that you suggested but we are concerned that it might crush too easily when people are driving track nails. We are going to have a bunch of different people laying track so we want to eliminate as many potential problems as we can. Dave
We built the framework for the first module tonight. It went together very smoothly and quickly. Everybody was happy to see things start to take shape.
Randy:
We decided to return the roadbed and track to Rapido. We are going to use 3/4" plywood as a base, with 1/2" of Homasote on top of that, and then HO scale cork roadbed. We did discuss using the Rapido roadbed in the manner that you suggested but we are concerned that it might crush too easily when people are driving track nails. We are going to have a bunch of different people laying track so we want to eliminate as many potential problems as we can.
Something I saw recently is jlwii2000 made a visit to Rapido, and also got to tour Jason's home layout (and mostly his passenger car in the basement - really awesome). One of the thing he showed was how he used sheets of the same material as the roadbed on top of his plywood and then used cork roadbed under the track. Claims it made things very quiet. That's disappointing that the Rapido roadbed can't even be curved to 32" radius - the WS stuff goes even tighter with no problems. However, that might be worth looking into, a layer of the Rapido stuff used more like sheet material between plywood and cork. Not really worry about the bevel or curving it, just lay it straight and cut it as needed.
Progress:
We got the first shipment of track and turnouts today. The wood will be delivered on Wednesday.
As some of you are aware, one of our club members works for Rapido. Tonight when we showed up at the club house we found two huge boxes of Rapido foam roadbed and 50 3 ft. sections of Rapido flex track. Unfortunately the member wasn't there to confirm that the roadbed and track were free so we will have to confirm that.
However, what is even more unfortunate is that the stuff isn't useable. The foam roadbed won't go around a 32" radius curve without bunching up on the inside of the curve. Yes, we could cut wedges out to make it lay flat but we decided to not go that route.
The track looks great but it is extremely delicate. The rails and the ties separate with almost no pressure applied. We were able to curve it without the rails and track separating, but we concluded that if the track ever had to be lifted and relaid it would not likely survive the lifting process.
Please understand that we were very grateful for Rapido's generosity but we have decided to go with proven products. Sorry Jason, but thanks for the offer none the less.
That's excellent news, Dave!
hon30critterWe decided to go with 1x4 select pine instead of plywood.
I believe that is a very wise decision I wish you, and your group, smooth sailing Empire Building, ahead!
Be sure to document your progress...
Regards, Ed
BIG progress!
Tonight I placed the order for 60+ Atlas turnouts and 175 pieces of flex track, plus the Tortoise machines and all the other bits that will be needed like cork roadbed, rail joiners ..... etc.
Tomorrow my partner in crime will place the order for all the wood. We decided to go with 1x4 select pine instead of plywood. We found a source that was about $300 cheaper than anybody else.
We are off to the races!!
Cheers everybody!!
I finished the drawings for all of the benchwork tonight. We now have detailed plans for each section of the benchwork showing the exact placement for all of the L girders and crossmembers so we won't interfere with Tortoise placement should we decide to go that route. One of our members has loaned us a pocket hole drilling jig and a chop saw. I can hardly wait to start building!
Tonight we got approval from the members to go ahead and start spending money! We spent an hour trying to convince the nay sayers to release the whole amount that we were asking for. At one point one member was arguing that I hadn't broken the stages of construction down into small enough segments, as if that mattered in the least. I bit my tongue. In the end we got what we wanted. The vote was 14 for and 2 against. That's club politics for you!
We should be able to start the benchwork in early October. We have a show to do on Sept. 30/Oct 1 so that weekend is taken up. Then it will be full speed ahead.
As far as materials, we were originally going to go with 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood ripped into 3 1/2" strips. Based on our initial research it worked out to be the same price per foot as select 1 x 4 pine. However, thanks to the diligence of one of our members we were able to find select pine 1 x 4 x 16' for about $300.00 less than the Baltic Birch price, so that's what we will go with if it looks like decent lumber.
We had a slight problem to solve because a 16' piece of lumber would not go around the corner to get it into the layout room, and there are security grates on the windows that are welded into place. However, Lady Luck prevailed. We discovered that a dressed 1 x 4 will just slide through the rectangular openings in the security screen!
We also found Homasote in stock right in Barrie for about 2/3rds of the special order price.
I'll keep you posted as things progress.
Cheers!!
Back to the layout itself.
Many of you will have seen this on the thread about Atlas #8 turnout size. I now have two possible layout plans. One uses Atlas Code 83 #6s plus four curved turnouts. The other uses Peco Code 83 #6s and #8s plus three curved turnouts. No more #5s in either version.
We have the quote for the Peco version. Hopefully we will have the quote for the Atlas version some time today. The overall track arrangement is essentially the same in both versions and hasn't changed from the plan posted earlier on page 5.
Gidday Dave, as you’ve already mentioned in the Diner, your clubs long term wish/goal is to possibly become tenants in the Barrie Allandale Station, a fine looking building if I may say so.
Hi Ja Bear:
The city of Barrie has spent several million dollars doing a spectacular job of restoring the Allandale Station. Unfortunately the site requires a couple more million dollars to remove contaminated soil before it will be suitable for public use. The city is reluctant to put up those additional funds, so the station sits in limbo. Lots of potential uses have been proposed but apparently the only solid lease proposal was for a fast food restaurant chain for one small corner. Pathetic!
Now for the really great news! There is a rumour that the whole thing may be sold to developers who will bulldoze the station and build condos! That's not pathetic, that's sickening!
For those of you not familiar with the station, here are some pics:
http://www.eraarch.ca/project/allandale-station/
We just lucked out! Our previous landlord, Kevin, operates a custom cabinet building business. In fact the old clubhouse was in the back of the shop (the dust was one of the major reasons that we moved out). Kevin has offered to cut 4' x 8' sheets of 3/4" plywood into 3 1/2" strips in return for an associate membership! He will even get the plywood at wholesale prices for us. For that I think we should give him a lifetime associate membership.
We asked him to quote on a couple of different materials, one being Baltic Birch 11 ply and the other being regular 7 ply plywood with a veneer core and no internal voids, preferably good both sides.
We hope to start building benchwork within the next 3 to 4 weeks.
Here are the key details of the plan:
Scan0007 by Dave Warnica, on Flickr" alt="" />
Main line is blue
Secondary track is black
A/D track is green
Yard lead is pink
On the club front, tonight we voted on which of the two possible plans we would build. The vote was 10 to 4 in favour of my plan, so I was a bit humbled. Both plans were good.
Here is my track plan. The layout space is 25' x 20':
Scan0006 by Dave Warnica, on Flickr" alt="" />
I know it looks like a bit of a spagetti bowl, but it was designed to allow a maximum number of operators at one time. If anyone can spot any major flaws, please speak up.
Thanks
rrinker Hmm, directly from the turnout into a curve, that may be a touch one.
I kind of suspected that you would say that. I think we can install short pieces of straight track between the turnouts and the curves, and then anchor the short pieces down securely. That requires that the curves be a bit sharper, but I can play with the track spacing to allieviate the problem a bit.
We are going to look at Atlas Custom Line Code 100 switches to try to save some money.
Thanks again,
Hmm, directly from the turnout into a curve, that may be a touch one. Ordinarily I do not solder turnouts in place (and you can get away with this even with an Electrofrog if you place a feeder to the track section after the turnout - but not froom the main bus, from whatever controls the frog power, so in parallel with the wire to the frog. That way you don't have a section of track relying on rail joiners yet the turnout is not soldered in place). I also don;t like gaps on curves, that asks for kinking. If there's room for any bit of straight track, cut the gap there so the rails aren't bending at the gap. If it just HAS to be a curve, I guess I'd solder the turnout in place so there's only chance of one kink, cut the gap, and if necessary spike along the outside of the rail to keep it in place because the outside rail of a curved piece of flex is going to want to spring back to straight.
Hi Randy:
It would appear that we were talking about gaps on different sides of the frogs. The addition of the gaps in the closure rails is realitively new for Code 100. Only my last few purchases have the gaps.
Please let me ask a question about placing gaps further from the diverging side of the frog. Logic suggests that doing that will require a piece of track being attached to the diverging tracks of the turnout. Do you solder that track to the turnout?
The reason I'm asking is related to the issue. I want to figure out the best way to install curved flex track leading into a turnout so as to avoid kinks. What do you and others suggest?
Thanks,