Jusat saying - we completely rewired our entire layout without ever being able to set it all up at once - converted from DC to DCC with new wiring harnesses using PowerPole connectors and lots of extra feeders. Testing was done as we went along - 2-3 sections could be set up at a time so as we worked our way around we kept the last section from the previous group out and went to the next one that plugged in to the completed one.
It did all work the first show after this - other than no provision being made for the common wire between the command station, boosters, and circuit breakers. No one believed me that this was required, but all issues disappeared when they finally decided to "humor" me and ran a wire temporarily. After that show and before next one, an additional line got added to each section's wiring harness to carry the common wire. Again done without ever stting the whole thing up - there's just no way to do it in the available space.
Since we have no permanent layout - there is a long stretch between shows at one point in the year and it might be nice to be able to set it all up. But that's because this is the only layout we have.There's no space to build a permanent layout - at least, no space you would put a layotu in, there's a huge section of the building we can;t use because of heavy equipment tha tmust be removed, leaky roof that must be fixed, no permanent electricity (we run an extension cord across the propety to another building!), and no real secured door - there are locks but a few good kicks gets you past that. The sections are safer in the carry racks locked inside the transport trailers, which are parked inside a different building which itself has locking doors - not to mention the locked gate that blocks anyone from just hauling a trailer out.
Anyway, we deal, it's not a hardship, and saves space.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Choopspm me your email and I can send a pdf.
Done
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
pm me your email and I can send a pdf.
Steve
rrinkerAt least ditch the lounge are and combine with the kitchen. Make the 'kitchen' room the storage room, so the door to it can be in the upper right, not on the side facing the layout - in the 'lounge', that way the layotu can come all the way up to teh wall of the storage room.
Hi Randy:
It seems that the elected executives have made the decision that the storage area and kitchen stay as is. I'm a bit disappointed with that but I choose not to stir the pot any further.
The club members have also decided that they want the portable layout to be operating at least until we can run trains on the new layout. We do need to make some repairs to the portable layout. There are two or three spots where derailments are constant, especially with 6 axle locomotives. The wiring is also very poorly done. We need to drop a bunch more feeders.
Dave
Hey Choops!
That looks like a neat plan.
Unfortunately I can't make out any of the dimensions even when I blow the picture up. What are your general aisle widths?
35" min. radius is pretty good!
Thanks,
At least ditch the lounge are and combine with the kitchen. Make the 'kitchen' room the storage room, so the door to it can be in the upper right, not on the side facing the layout - in the 'lounge', that way the layotu can come all the way up to teh wall of the storage room.
As for the portable layout - there is no need to haev space to set the whole thing up. We do not have room to set up our layout completely - it's 28x165 fully assembled with all current sections. The work area can handle all the storage racks (which are not used for benchwork - so they are 6' tall, or as high as will fit in the trailers), but only a couple of the sections (most are 2x8 or 2x10) at a time can be set up to be worked on. After any show, whichever ones needed attention are brought out to the work area and fixed, then put back on the cart. That layout is never set up outside of show venues. If you do that, then you only need room for the packed up carts plus one or two modules at a time to be worked on between shows. We've been operating that way since the first modules were built many many years ago. The modular committee chair makes not of what needs worked on as we pack up from one show, so we know what needs to be pulled and fixed up to be ready for the next one.
hon30critter Ya win some and ya lose some. My suggestion that we tear out the storage room walls was politely declined. It seems that the older folks don't want to have to get down on their hands and knees to see what might be stored under the layout. They would rather make use of the storage shelves. My suggestion that we consider scrapping the existing portable layout met with considerable (again polite) resistance. Maybe at some point in the future. All is not lost however! The executive invited me to be part of the layout design committee so at least they seem to respect my decisions even if they don't agree with them. I am flattered that they think enough of my abilities to offer me the opportunity. Now the real work begins! Dave
Ya win some and ya lose some.
My suggestion that we tear out the storage room walls was politely declined. It seems that the older folks don't want to have to get down on their hands and knees to see what might be stored under the layout. They would rather make use of the storage shelves.
My suggestion that we consider scrapping the existing portable layout met with considerable (again polite) resistance. Maybe at some point in the future.
All is not lost however! The executive invited me to be part of the layout design committee so at least they seem to respect my decisions even if they don't agree with them. I am flattered that they think enough of my abilities to offer me the opportunity.
Now the real work begins!
Rich
Alton Junction
Hello Dave
My current layout that I am building is similar to your space but slightly smaller. I took my design ans scaled the side wall to 25 feet to fit your space. The minimum raduis goes up to 35" from my 31". It is an inverted dogbone with a staging yard below the main yard. You can see the start of the ladder tracks at each end of the main yard for this. Double main line. Hope this gives you an idea of what might fit or some ideas.
Congrats on a bold move, at least it will get folks thinking outside the box, and that is a good thing.
hon30critter richhotrain My other thought was to abandon the portable layout and use that space for the lounge area. Now, I see that you have proposed to eliminate the portable layout, and I support that idea. Hi Rich: Thanks for your input. Next step is to see if I get thrown out of the club! Dave
richhotrain My other thought was to abandon the portable layout and use that space for the lounge area. Now, I see that you have proposed to eliminate the portable layout, and I support that idea.
Hi Rich:
Thanks for your input. Next step is to see if I get thrown out of the club!
richhotrainMy other thought was to abandon the portable layout and use that space for the lounge area. Now, I see that you have proposed to eliminate the portable layout, and I support that idea.
Dave, I finally got a chance to read through this thread and decided to comment.
The proposed layout space reminds me very much of the space in my basement thay is committed to my layout. My layout runs 42' down one wall of the basement, 25' down a perpendicular wall, then 11' across another basement wall, so very much like your space except that my 42' run is 22' for you in the first diagram you posted.
As soon as I saw that first diagram, I saw the similarity to my own space and concluded that the 8' of lounge space should be committed to the layout, so that your dimensions would measure 30' x 25' x 11', just 12' short of my longest length. I can and do pack a lot of layout in that space.
My other thought was to abandon the portable layout and use that space for the lounge area. Now, I see that you have proposed to eliminate the portable layout, and I support that idea.
Just my
Based on Steve's (Choops) recommendations, here is the revised layout space. Have at 'er:
Choops:
I sent you a PM.
OK guys, I just stirred the pot! I sent the club members an e-mail making the following suggestions:
1. Remove the three storage room walls and use the area for a lounge. The lounge space can be extended into the main room a few feet to make space for enough chairs and a table. Storage space will be ample under the new layout, and in fact I don't think we will require the amount of storage space that the storage room provides once we sort through all the crap that we brought over from the old clubhouse.
Then I suggested committing sacrilege! I said that we should scrap the existing portable layout! We can build the new layout so that part of it is portable. That will allow us to still do the shows. I might have to wear some body armour to the next meeting in order to survive!
At the risk of repeating myself, thanks for the ideas!
Hi speedybee:
Interesting concept. I'll have to think about that one for a while.
You've already got a lot to think about, but what about moving the lounge area to squarely in the middle of the room, with the layout wrapping around it? You could have spinning chairs at your big table, so you can either face the table or spin your chair around to face the layout
Hi gang!
Thanks for all the replies! Lots to think about.
Let me try to address some of the suggestions:
1. The portable layout:
I should have given a few more details about the portable layout. It consists of seven 2' x 4' modules. When assembled the track is 62" off the floor (which we all agree is too tall by the way). When broken down six of the modules fit into two roughly 2' x 4' rolling cabinets. The cabinets form the support structure for the layout when it is set up and that is why the layout is so high in the air when assembled.
We have made the decision that if and when we take it to shows, it will be in good working order. We don't want to have to make repairs at the shows. That has been a problem in the past. That means that we have to have space to set it up to work on it. Also, it does provide running space for two or three operators.
There has been some discussion about rebuilding the portable layout so that it is at a better height. That would also theoretically allow it to be integrated into the permanent layout.
The possibility of scrapping the portable layout hasn't really entered into the conversation as far as I know. I will raise the possibility. Certainly we could design the permanent layout so that parts of it could be taken to shows.
2. Storage area:
The storage area is 8' x 10'. It was deemed by the club executives that it was too small for a lounge. Perhaps that decision needs to be revisited. We have what seems like a lot of stuff to store, but what still has to be done is go through each box and toss out the garbage. We moved a bunch of pretty rabid looking scenery materials and a several old structures that are caked in dust from the old location. I suspect that a lot of what we dragged from the old place will end up in the trash.
3. Kitchen:
I believe that the kitchen is 10' x 10'. It has storage space in it too, but almost all of that will be used to store the kitchen equipment that is used at our annual show and sale. I don't know if the landlord would permit us to take the wall out between the 'storage' area and the kitchen. I know that it is not structural. We would just need the landlord's permission. That could make the 'storage' area more usable as a lounge.
4. Lounge area:
The club is pretty much unanimous about having chairs, not bar stools, and my derriere whole heartedly agrees! We also want to have a table, although obviously it doesn't have to be 30" x 96". One thing to keep in mind is that operators may have to stand in the lounge area in order to run trains on the top right of the permanent layout.
To address your specific comments:
Steve:
You are right, the turnback on the 11' side will have to be changed. I don't think that is a problem.
Carl425:
Thank you for thinking 'outside the box'! You have made me stop and think! The basic floor plan for the entire room was decided upon by the club executive, and I was initially limited by their insistance that that was the floor plan, period! I'm going to stir the pot by raising some of the possibilities that you have suggested.
FWIW, I roughly based my benchwork outline on the Tall Pine RR which is in the MR layout library.
Robert:
Thanks for noticing the aisle widths. We suffered from extremely narrow aisles at the old clubhouse. In order to pass by another club member you almost had to be on intimate terms!
Randy:
Actually, the executive has decided that we will not join the portable layout to the permanent layout despite the fact that they will both be HO. IMHO, that decision did not take into account the possibilities that have been mentioned above, i.e. scrapping the portable layout and making part of the new layout portable, or reconfiguring the existing portable layout to make it lower.
Again, thanks for all the thought provoking suggestions everyone! Please keep them coming.
I apologise for the long winded post. I know long posts get boring really fast.
Cheers!!
I'm not sure how the kitchen is designed but you might be able to build a passthrough between the kitchen and the storage room and have the bar inside the kitchen.
carl425I would put storage under the layout, move the lounge to the storage room, dump the portable layout and dedicate the entire main room to the primary layout.
I agree. Find someone’s garage to store the portable layout in or get a storage unit. Turn the storage room into the lounge. Those two items eat up half of the space, and everyone who ever built a layout knows you can never have too much room. The lounge doesn’t have to have a large table in the middle. It can have a bar and small cocktail tables.
Agree with Carl, maybe store the portable layout under a peninsula, and other items under the layout against the walls. Break area in what is now the storage area may be a bit small but the layout itself would be much bigger, a good trade off in my opinion.
I think you're trying to do too much in the space. I can't imagine a track plan that would fit in the area you have drawn that would keep club sized operating sessions interesting.
I would put storage under the layout, move the lounge to the storage room, dump the portable layout and dedicate the entire main room to the primary layout.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
the turn back on the 11 foot side is going to tight if you hava a 40" radius. will not quite fit the profile you have drawn there.
Hey Dave-
The first thing I noticed is wide aisles. Good decision! Try to resist the urge to encroach on them.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
I don't think 8' of width is too much for a table even with bar stools instead of chairs. More of us are John Goodman before rather than John Goodman after.
I assume something 6x12 that is "portable" comes apart - good idea making it part of the 'permanent' layout, extending the layout up the left side. Or is it a different scale?
looks like a great start.
store the portable layout under the club layout or make it attach to the club layout and be part of it.
lounge area is too big. place bar stools areound for sitting and watching.
If you can the peninsula will get wider with a backdrop down the center of it for main line on both sides.
Here is a challenge for all you layout designers. I have attached a diagram of the space that our club has for a new permanent layout. Basically, the layout has to fit below the 'S' shaped dotted line that runs across the middle of the diagram. For now, I'm more interested in the layout outline, but if you want to add track then by all means please do so. Walls cannot be moved. Let's see what you can do:
Here is my best attempt. Actually I made several attempts but I won't bore you with all of them. The green arrows indicate aisle width, if that wasn't clear. The return loop on the left is 40" radius and the one in the center is 44" radius. The straight shelf sections on the right and the bottom are 30" deep:
Thanks for your input!
Fred:
Thanks for the suggestion about the adjustable leg mechanisms. Even though our new layout will be permanent (more or less), being able to adjust for level easily is a good idea.
fwrightYou want the upper section to be comfortable when twisting with your hand for adjustment.
I see it now. Thanks for the information.