Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

The North Bank road in N scale 4' x 6' layout

41442 views
183 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: huizen, 15 miles from Amsterdam
  • 1,484 posts
Posted by Paulus Jas on Sunday, May 12, 2013 6:49 AM

hi gentlemen,

Gary does understand the above very well. What bothered me was his wish to add loads of new engines (a fleet he called it) for DC- operation only. Though I do understand his wish not to invest in DCC right now, his wish to spend his money on more DC-only stuff will surely keep him from using DCC in the future. Installing decoders in a fleet of engines will turn out to be very costly when done later. 

Operating a couple of trains on a DC layout, with numerous blocks you have to (dis)connect, might be not all that after all.  The longer he waits the more difficult the change to DCC will become.

Wish you wisdom

Paul

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:20 AM

my fleet probably won't get much bigger than this, one more RS1, an Alco FA/FB pair, an E7, a trio of RS3's. it's a 4' x 6' layout I'm going to try ad get it to look realistically populated. When the funds allow this summer I will come back and ask about a proper DCC system. 

The layout is at a standstill currently, the right hand #5 ME turnout arrived yesterday and locomotives make it past the frog but the moment the front truck crosses it the loco dies and loses power. I got another pack of 4.25", a box of 1.25", and a box 15" R curve. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Rimrock, Arizona
  • 11,251 posts
Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, May 12, 2013 10:53 AM

You might consider getting the DCC ready locos if you have the option. It will make things easier if you make a switch later--you know plugging in a decoder instead of wiring it. 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:26 AM

current DCC ready fleet: AC4400CW, SD70MAC, GP40-2, SD40, 2x Alco FA/FB, 4-8-2, GS-4, E5A, and NW2.

non DCC ready: F7A, RS1, E8A, and 4-8-4.

upcoming release pre order locos: F3 AB set, Dash 8-32BWH

Future purchases: E7A, F3A(multiple), RS units(unknown if DCC ready), another NW2, S-2 or S-4, possible C424/425, possible F7's.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Monday, May 13, 2013 1:55 AM

yeah, I'm just going to bail on this layout there's no point in it anymore. it's a project that will never see fruition. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Monday, May 13, 2013 8:35 AM

it's done, there's just no point in it anymore.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Monday, May 13, 2013 9:30 AM

I would but I like to use atlas track because I can ballast it myself. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 13, 2013 10:56 AM

Gary,

Kato Unitrack is pretty reliable and easy to enhance in appearance - see for yourself:

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Back in the PNW
  • 659 posts
Posted by alco_fan on Monday, May 13, 2013 11:11 AM

It is easy to become discouraged when you want a lot in a small space and it does not all fit. It has seemed like you imagined more than could fit in 4X6

So look at it the other way and start with what does fit. Some layout is always better than nothing.

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Monday, May 13, 2013 4:08 PM

I was never discouraged about the layout, but there's no point it anymore. I've already cleaned it off and will be storing my trains until I feel ready to pull them out again. 

I made some modifications changed it around all I need was the track, how to wire it, and how to make a mountainous/ riverside looking terrain. Instead of further wasting my time and money on this layout, I'll wait until I have the space and money to re pursue this goal again.

I'm not going to bother with it anymore I made simple guidelines I was trying to stay between, but it seemed that it wasn't going to happen and I knew better too.  

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 2:20 PM

BrianinBuffalo

Gary;

Please don't give up.  You are learning a lot.  It looks like you are having a lot of fun too.

Brian

I don't really want to give up on it, but with outside pressures, track shortage, the instantaneous barrage of DCC info, and various other problem. It would seem that there's no point. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 2:24 PM

alco_fan

It is easy to become discouraged when you want a lot in a small space and it does not all fit. It has seemed like you imagined more than could fit in 4X6

So look at it the other way and start with what does fit. Some layout is always better than nothing.

I'm trying to build up the steam to go back there and give another shot but your comment the other day coupled with outside pressures hit a fuse. I don't mind constructive criticism but it doesn't help when the criticism is neither constructive nor comes from a person who has not shown their work. I'm not being disrespectful or rude when I say that, but I don't believe it's fair to have my work judged by those who refuse to show theirs. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Back in the PNW
  • 659 posts
Posted by alco_fan on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 2:46 PM

Burlington Northern #24
I'm trying to build up the steam to go back there and give another shot but your comment the other day coupled with outside pressures hit a fuse. I don't mind constructive criticism but it doesn't help when the criticism is neither constructive nor comes from a person who has not shown their work. I'm not being disrespectful or rude when I say that, but I don't believe it's fair to have my work judged by those who refuse to show theirs. 

If you are blaming me, you are blaming the wrong guy. I never criticized your work, I only noted that you had not yet wired multiple cab DC and therefore were not in a good position to comment on DCC versus multiple cab DC. My exact words from that thread:

alco_fan

If you want to stay DC, do that by all means. I have said that multiple times. Read my posts.

But until you personally wire a layout with _multiple cab_ DC with _independent control_ of the trains _anywhere_ on the layout, you do not know what is involved, trust me. So you do not have the experience to make the assertion that DC and DCC are "the same".

Then I said:

alco_fan

You missed my point. I applaud your start. We all started there (except maybe Sheldon). It is better than sitting on the sidelines.

All I said was that it has not, so far, given you the background to make a definitive comment about wiring multiple cab DC.

Keep going!

Then I spent a considerable amount of time trying to help you understand multiple cab DC wiring with Atlas components, which _you_ indicated that you were not able to grasp from Atlas book. I also note that I am the _only_ person on that thread to try to help you with _DC_. 

So let me recap

- I do not have any opinion at all about your work good or bad except to say (again!!!) that it is great that you have started.

- I do not think you need to go DCC if you do not want to. But I do think it is important that you understand multiple engines running with DC better so that you can achieve what you want on your layout with DC or DCC.

- I tried to help you understand multiple cab DC wiring better

- I will say (again!!!) Keep going!

- I hope you do not give up. If you do, it is not accurate to blame anyone else for it.

- Keep going!

Good luck.

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:02 PM

ok, well it will have to sit for a little bit more. this atlas track shortage is killing me. out of curiosity which scale are you in?

the post I was referencing was when AC asked you what you personally knew of my wiring. your response to that was what hit it. No I'm not mad at you I was just a bit frustrated I'll admit my first layout wasn't the best but I only had one powerpack at that time. My apologies if it seems that this came of as an aggressive pursuit or hostile action. I didn't mean for it to be like that.

As for what I want(or wanted) I was to be honest not entirely sure. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Back in the PNW
  • 659 posts
Posted by alco_fan on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:08 PM

Burlington Northern #24
out of curiosity which scale are you in?

N scale back when the quality was not nearly as good as today (pre 1991). HO since then. I have some buddies doing N scale now and if it ran like it does now back in the day I would still be in N today. But I have gone too far down the HO road now

I hear from them that Atlas 55 will be arriving soon. Keep going!

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:14 PM

alco_fan

Burlington Northern #24
out of curiosity which scale are you in?

N scale back when the quality was not nearly as good as today (pre 1991). HO since then. I have some buddies doing N scale now and if it ran like it does now back in the day I would still be in N today. But I have gone too far down the HO road now

I hear from them that Atlas 55 will be arriving soon. Keep going!

I'll try to but it's a bit rickety and I need to reinforce it. I need to try and get some more turnouts, curves, and straights.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    January 2013
  • From: PA
  • 481 posts
Posted by Schuylkill and Susquehanna on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:53 PM

Burlington Northern #24

I don't really want to give up on it, but with outside pressures, track shortage, the instantaneous barrage of DCC info, and various other problem. It would seem that there's no point. 

 
Since when is information a bad thing?  Take some time, read a bit, do some research, and everything will be made clear.  (Gee, that sounded like some kind of prophecy...Tongue Tied  It really does work, though.)
 
The track shortage is caused by the one company in China who makes most of the model railroading stuff that be buy suddenly decide to stop production and start making something else.  So the majority of modeling companies have had to find a different manufacturer, so naturally there are shortages of just about everything (though none are as acute as the shortage of track.)  I don't know who currently is producing N scale track, but I recently ran across something from Atlas saying that they were back in production.
 
In you'll indulge me, I'll add a bit to the flood of DCC information.  I'll try to keep it short and simple.
 
I use a Digitrax system to run my trains.  I have the "Zephyr" set, and you can get on off E-bay for about $150.  The "Zephyr" has since been replaced with the "Zephyr Extra" that has a higher amp rating, but since you are running N scale, the regular old "Zephyr" should work just  fine for you.  Digitrax makes a line of "drop in" decoders for N scale diesel locomotives, as well as hard wire decoders.
 
Some of my friends use NCE to run their trains.  The "Power Cab" costs about $170 for everything you need.  The "Power Cab" is slightly less technical then Digitrax sustems, but it also lacks some features that Digirtax offers (such as being able to use DC power packs as throttles.)  NCE makes its own line of decoders, but I don't know if they make any "drop in" decoders for N scale.
 
"Drop in" N scale decoders with sound are available from various manufacturers.
 
I hope that this is helpful and that you will continue to work on your layout.  It is really starting to shape up.
 
S&S

 

Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:59 PM

out of curiousity how many N scale locos could one DCC system power without booster(s) and with booster(s)? If multi cab wiring is as bad as Alco says then it would be easier and more time saving to switch to DCC but it will cost more. 

I know 3-4 of my locos will need to be milled out in order to have DCC installs, I know my AC4400CW, SD70MAC, upcoming F3AB set, and some other locomotives are DCC ready? a couple of them I'd like sound in my BNSF locos atleast because I plan on getting more of them. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 6:33 PM

That's great!!! Is it 6 locos at one time with the rest shut off? I was going to try and realistically represent the SP&S on the layout so the number of locomotives on layout wasn't going to be overwhelming but just enough to show the presence. I was going to have 2 RS1's #50 and 51(needs to be bought and painted), SP&S #802 & 804(both need to be purchased and painted), #750(E7A that I will buy myself for my upcoming birthday), all three SP&S GP9's(T.T. equipped must be bought painted), an NW2(must be bought and painted), and an S2 or S4(must be bought and painted). this was part of my reason for being reluctant to switch to DCC because I have lots of locomotives that will need to be bought painted and decaled. Why? because the manufacturers don't love me and won't produce any SP&S stuff Crying

Come on Sharks Get us A STANLEY!

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:43 PM

BrianinBuffalo

Gary;

I have enough power to run them all at once if I want.  Running all six at once would be near impossible on my Scenic Ridge layout as their is really only one main line with a passing siding.  I can easily run 2 trains with 3 locos in a consist no problem.

BLM has the NCE Powercab for $139.00 when and if you interested.  That is the best price I have seen anywhere.Wink

Cheers,

Brian

Go Sharks, Go Sens!

ok well once I can get the funds up after I get my SP&S E7 I will pick up an NCE powercab, a fellow N scaler told me it was a drop in for it. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:40 PM

ehhhh, I'm having second thoughts about switching to DCC. I think my layout will be built for single train operation with the ability to support switching in the yard, and alternating trains on the main. 2 people minimum, 3 people max. but It'll probably just be me running alone 95% of the time so It'll be fine. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 1:44 PM

BrianinBuffalo

Gary;

Sounds good to me.  I would have no idea how to do straight DC (other than one loop of track) Big Smile    so I am of little help when it comes to that.

I think Broadway Lion is a master at DC.  He would be a good one to get direction from.  He has many good ideas on how to do things cheaply that look great.

Brian

yeah, I also asked Atlantic central if he could help me with a signalling system. maybe we both could learn together?  Big Smile

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Back in the PNW
  • 659 posts
Posted by alco_fan on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:15 PM

BrianinBuffalo
I think Broadway Lion is a master at DC.

His trains cannot run backwards and cannot change speeds relative to one another. That does not seem the best choice for a general purpose layout, although it is fine for the monks very specific needs.

There are many more flexible ways to wire for DC, as described in the books Gary has already.

Good luck.

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:32 AM

it's still one heck of a layout though, he can pull off the job of a train dispatcher with such ease. It's an amazing wonder that deserves to grace the pages of Model railroader in my opinion. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    April 2013
  • 75 posts
Posted by kevinrr on Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:09 PM

Burlington Northern #24
I know 3-4 of my locos will need to be milled out in order to have DCC installs, I know my AC4400CW, SD70MAC, upcoming F3AB set, and some other locomotives are DCC ready? a couple of them I'd like sound in my BNSF locos atleast because I plan on getting more of them.

Milled out to have DCC, or milled out to have DCC w/sound?

I don't know much but from what I've seen it looks like the milling is to make room for speakers.

  • Member since
    April 2013
  • 75 posts
Posted by kevinrr on Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:14 PM

Schuylkill and Susquehanna
NCE makes its own line of decoders, but I don't know if they make any "drop in" decoders for N scale.

Yes, they do.

In fact, their decoders for Atlas locos are dropped in at the factory. Wink

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:34 PM

kevinrr

Burlington Northern #24
I know 3-4 of my locos will need to be milled out in order to have DCC installs, I know my AC4400CW, SD70MAC, upcoming F3AB set, and some other locomotives are DCC ready? a couple of them I'd like sound in my BNSF locos atleast because I plan on getting more of them.

Milled out to have DCC, or milled out to have DCC w/sound?

I don't know much but from what I've seen it looks like the milling is to make room for speakers.

milled out for DCC, I don't think they could shoehorn a speaker beneath an N scale RS1 shell with as tight as that thing is on the frame.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Friday, May 17, 2013 8:15 PM

modified the track plan again, winging it at the moment the top most track is going somewhere and will have a switch for locos to reverse onto the turntable, I will try to place a coach shed or diesel shed somewhere(it could also go onto the pasco side) there might be a stub end yard on this side. 

There may be a left hand turnout facing the opposite direction placed at the end of the right hand turnout not sure yet.

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2012
  • 2,297 posts
Posted by Burlington Northern #24 on Saturday, May 18, 2013 3:25 PM

Working on the Vancouver side right now, A yard is not looking to be a plausible option so I'll try some industries or a town scene. 

SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.

 http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide 

Gary DuPrey

N scale model railroader 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Victor Harbor, South Australia
  • 362 posts
Posted by alexstan on Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:42 PM

I'm watching this with interest!

Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!