Okeedokie folks, we have 4' x 6' of plywood to work with. the scale is N, track that I will be using is code 55 atlas track because I've found a source of track. The general idea of the plan is a single track with passing siding(s) as well as operational capabilities. I have a three stall roundhouse and turntable that will be going onto the layout. they will be on the Vancouver side of the layout as will a passenger station, and an industry or two to switch. there will be a divider in the center, and the other side will be either Wishram or Pasco, Wa. Both Pasco and Wishram are yards(as is Vancouver but I haven't seen that yard.) to save space so I can represent industries I was thinking of keeping the yard tracks to 3 or 4 wide and running just short of the length. I need to draw a track plan and take some above layout photos.
I have 18.25 R C55 curves I need to buy some more track, I plan on using mostly sectional track except in a few spots, the layout will be DC with block controls I just need to place the blocks.
Also this will be an experiment on how much a layout can cost: $34.19(includes shipping $15.20) for track so far, $56.29 for lumber, $23.00 for a building . $114.09 total this far.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
A layout can stretch your pocket book in a hurry. However, some things need to be charged in different categories. Rolling stock power packs and electrical switches are easily movable to another layout. Scenic material such as ground foam is used up, not recyclable. Then there is track, turnouts and trees. With careful application and removal much of these can be salvaged. Wiring and lumber, some will be useful some scrapped, feeder wires and shorter pieces of lumber. A little like fixed and variable costs, some are layout specific and some are "hobby" expenses.
When laying your track, do not "glue" your turnouts down, makes them much easier to repair or replace and much easier to salvage. I put a wire peg in the trunks of my trees poke a hole in the foam, put a drop of white glue on the hole and insert the wire peg, they stay in place, easily removable, if necessary with no damage to the tree.
Have fun,
Richard
yeah, I wasn't going to count rolling stock because it's moveable.
Edit- I might also add that the cost of locos and rolling stock will be immense because the SP&S is pretty much non existent in N scale, locomotive wise anyways(and passenger car wise)
limits for freight trains is 10-14 pieces of rolling stock(including locos and caboose), or atleast whatever will fit into sidings.
A while back I read that a layout will run between $50-$100 a square foot ( I guess depending on the urban to rural ratio of the layout--and figuring N tends to be more rural than HO) AT any rate, I shopped bargains on eBay etc. and I was able to keep my HO layout at around $50 per square foot. But I traded time for money. I spent a lot of time fixing up and reworking my eBay purchases to make them work for me. You can cut the costs by a lot if you plan out your layout carefully. A good investment would be to pick up a free layout design program and work out your kinks with pixels instead of money.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Yeah, I was going to build it slowly. I don't mind having extra track, when I built my first layout I made lots of mistakes so this one I will be working piece by piece.
Burlington Northern #24The general idea of the plan is a single track with passing siding(s) as well as operational capabilities.
to save space so I can represent industries I was thinking of keeping the yard tracks to 3 or 4 wide and running just short of the length. I need to draw a track plan and take some above layout photos.
I have 18.25 R C55 curves I need to buy some more track.
Texas Zepher Are you thinking once around with just two passing sidings, twice around with 3 or 4 sidings, point-to-point, or something more creative? Always a good idea, as a small layout doesn't necessarily need a large yard. Another option could be just 1 or 2 tracks wide that are longer. So with curves this big one could basically take any of the HO scale 4 x 6 track plans out there to use as a starting point. Any particular reason you are using such large curves?
Are you thinking once around with just two passing sidings, twice around with 3 or 4 sidings, point-to-point, or something more creative?
Always a good idea, as a small layout doesn't necessarily need a large yard. Another option could be just 1 or 2 tracks wide that are longer.
So with curves this big one could basically take any of the HO scale 4 x 6 track plans out there to use as a starting point. Any particular reason you are using such large curves?
I'm not sure, the SP&S main is full of passing sidings because it's a one track main(even today). I want to represent it fairly without burying it under the rest of the stuff.
yeah 1-2 tracks, I'd like 3 but would settle for less. just so a local/thru could originate in pasco and then reach vancouver and be seperated/switched.
18.25 curves why so big , I like passenger service and there were lots of pool trains from the GN,NP, SP&S, MILW, & UP though the UP & MILW may get a little underrepresented on this layout. plus it gives freight locos(usually a lone RS3, or RS1) an edge and makes the weight of the train not such a burden around curves.
So I am trying to understand, I am guessing you are talking about Vancouver Washington, not Vancouver BC. If so do you want to do the big bridge just out from the station? That would be an amazing centerpiece for the layout. Shucks, might be a bit hard in 4x6. How much River do you want on the layout?
Texas Zepher So I am trying to understand, I am guessing you are talking about Vancouver Washington, not Vancouver BC. If so do you want to do the big bridge just out from the station? That would be an amazing centerpiece for the layout. Shucks, might be a bit hard in 4x6. How much River do you want on the layout?
Hmmm, and another question. How do the trains arriving down the SP&S from the east get into the station. Do they head south on the bridge and back in. Or do they just stop on the east side of the station.
Do any trains terminate here? If so, where is the locomotive facility, and coach yard? Do the road loco's take the train there or are they detached and a switcher take the empty train away?
Edit - looks like you were posting part of the answer while I was drafting the question.
hmmmm, I didn't think of that. I could put the loco facility next to the roundhouse and turntable or on the opposite side of it. let's see stub end passenger track, I could place the loco track, switcher track, and car storage track.... hmmmm Texas Zephyr I'm scratching my head on this one, these are good questions I need to figure it out. hmmmmmm...
While waiting for class to start I was working on it a bit more erased the Pasco side, I'll work on that once the vancouver side gets finished/tweaked. lets see the left side will be trains coming from the west and the right side will be west. passenger service from the west t will back in(locos on front of train which forward is right), locos will detach and head to loco tracks for servicing. eastern(trains headed left)will pass station uncouple and the switcher will couple to the observation car and push the train into the station and will switch and cut cars as needed. let's see to place coaches in the coach yard the switcher will have to cross the main(which is already being held up by this operation anyways) to places coaches in the coach yard.
that will be done for trains longer than 8 cars(like my BN HS ones and pool trains), trains like my Centralian, Olympia Zephyr, a GN train and the SP&S train(which I need to get cars paint cars and Name will all be 6-7 cars, so there probably will be no removal of any cars . Feel free to tweak it, I'm open to opinions and thoughts. keep them civil though, please.
Perhaps you've already laid this out and it will all work, but from your drawing, it doesn't seem likely. There is just too much in the space. Before I mentioned getting a free layout program to design your layout. That software will keep you from over-designing. I like XtrkCAD. You can get it here: http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage There is a tutorial to get you started. I suggest using that as well.
Thanks Spacemouse, yeah I'm trying to keep it so that trains won't be sidelined for an hour while cars get switched around.
even with the tutorial I'm having a bugger of a time trying to figure it out, I'll use a ruler and some track.
Yeah, I'll check those out too. I'm going to pick up some turnouts, some more sectional track. Should I put some cork roadbed down under the track or straight to board it. I did cork roadbed on my first layout and I have track straight to board on my ti"N"y project layout. the sound isn't any different.
hi BN,
the plan you provided lacks lots of information. You could be specific about turnout sizes and the applied minimum radius. From a previous post I had the impression your are aiming for 18,75; you might want to use #7 turnouts for the passenger tracks, especially since you will be backing long consits.
However when I try to draw your plan with a 15 minimum radius and #5 turnouts there is no space at all left for the three track yard in the middle. Even without a ruler and a compass, using "Armstrong" squares, you will be able to draw plans that will fit in your space. Yours doesn't even come close. Please do your homework before posting plans.
Paul
First off it's a sketch not in concrete, the yard was an idea I was tossing around in my head. I'm trying to be as flexible as possible. "Please do your homework before posting plans" look is that necessary, the choice to partcipate in others thread is yours but statements like these are not needed. The NTS on the bottom of the paper stands for not to scale, I need to get some more track before I can actually get this thing down and figure out exactly what I can and can't do.
http://download.atlasrr.com/09TrackCat/NScale16-40.pdf I'
I'm looking at this N scale track, I wonder if a switch to 21.25" R track would be plausible because it would allow curved turnouts. I could always place a turnout in the area between the 18.25" R curves so that way passenger rains could easily reach the station.
Also I have 3 side access to the layout(bottom, Right side, Top).
Modification proposition: I could have a passing siding and have it return to the main and link up to the station.
Gary,
if you want to be taken serious, you will have to show a serious drawing. Just one turnout is enough to know its length. Some easy calculating will give you an idea how long a row of 7 turnouts will be.
Throwing impossible ideas around and then asking others to comment on them might not be the way to get respectful responses. It is not about what is exactly possible or not. It's not even about drawing to scale. But when you draw turnouts one inch long while they are almost 5" in reality you are cheating and wasting my time.
As I've said before even a NTS scetch can be based on a known minimum radius and known turnout-sizes. That exactly is the beauty of doodling with Armstrong squares.
I'll be more patient, so I'll wait till you've found what's really possible after you have acquired some more track.
Paulus Jas Gary, if you want to be taken serious, you will have to show a serious drawing. Just one turnout is enough to know its length. Some easy calculating will give you an idea how long a row of 7 turnouts will be. Throwing impossible ideas around and then asking others to comment on them might not be the way to get respectful responses. It is not about what is exactly possible or not. It's not even about drawing to scale. But when you draw turnouts one inch long while they are almost 5" in reality you are cheating and wasting my time. As I've said before even a NTS scetch can be based on a known minimum radius and known turnout-sizes. That exactly is the beauty of doodling with Armstrong squares. I'll be more patient, so I'll wait till you've found what's really possible after you have acquired some more track. Paul
I'm not asking you to not throw in comments or suggestions, please don't do it with such a rude tone. To be honest but not disrespectful your comment did come off as slightly disrespectful, the track shortage is not making it any easier for me to get exact dimensions on what I need.
the minimum radius is 18.75, I tried finding track dimensions but to no avail. I managed to get one atlas C55 #5 turnout(I think) I will do some measurements when it gets here in 3-4 days. If turnouts are 5" long then placing one in the middle of the curve isn't doable, it takes 4 18.75's to make half a curve.
BN#24,
That sketch,that you posted,looks like,that would be a very interesting,layout,,,,now if it was on a bigger,plan,,, obviously,that will not fit in the space,provided,,,, I believe,you may have to be more,realistic in your approach to designing a plan.......
Cheers,
Frank
hi Gary,
I made a mistake, those #5 turnouts are 6" long.
Looking at the row of 10 turnouts I instantly knew these alone would take about 60" or 5 ft. Then you still need to add space for the yard-tracks, the two end-curves and some extra space for the engine terminal. Tan-coloured are (Armstrong) squares. By using them you can easily estimate the total length a track configuration will take. BTW when printing out turnouts from CAD 1:1 you are able to find their length. Peco has done it for their line of turnouts and placed it on the web. Their turnouts are shorter, however keep in mind you might have to use small filler pieces to obtain the required spacing. A 180 degree turn takes 37,50" , add 6" for a turnout in the middle and you still have 4,5 inches left. Enough for on more track at the bottom, still keeping 3,25" for the two spaces between the tracks and the edge of the layout. Pretty tight though just doable. On my drawing i've two turnouts in the middle, so I need half a foot more width. You could win some space by using Peco curved turnouts, they don't come really cheap however.
Looking at the row of 10 turnouts I instantly knew these alone would take about 60" or 5 ft. Then you still need to add space for the yard-tracks, the two end-curves and some extra space for the engine terminal.
Tan-coloured are (Armstrong) squares. By using them you can easily estimate the total length a track configuration will take.
BTW when printing out turnouts from CAD 1:1 you are able to find their length. Peco has done it for their line of turnouts and placed it on the web. Their turnouts are shorter, however keep in mind you might have to use small filler pieces to obtain the required spacing.
A 180 degree turn takes 37,50" , add 6" for a turnout in the middle and you still have 4,5 inches left. Enough for on more track at the bottom, still keeping 3,25" for the two spaces between the tracks and the edge of the layout. Pretty tight though just doable. On my drawing i've two turnouts in the middle, so I need half a foot more width. You could win some space by using Peco curved turnouts, they don't come really cheap however.
Hi Gary,
I know you are probably getting frustrated with everyone pushing you to have an accurate representation of your layout plans. The thing is there are some very talented layout designers who would like nothing more than to help you. Most of these people look at what you have presented and moved on because you have not given them anything to work with.
Learning a design program is not just for today, it will save you a lot of time and money with every layout you imagine--and it works big time when you imagine a layout and find out it won't work in the space you have...before you build it to test it with your track. Plus fiddling around with different options takes only seconds. Here's a plan I drew in n-scale just for laughs and giggles a few years ago. it is 42" x 6'8" so not quite your space. When I opened it up to show you I immediately spotted a couple problems, so it is not perfect. I used XtrkCAD.
Two of the compromises that people with small space usually make is foregoing a roundhouse and turntable because they take a lot of space with very little operational return. Likewise, a double ended yard also takes a lot of space--and in your case above, serves little purpose. A stub yard takes less space.
Paulus Jas hi Gary, I made a mistake, those #5 turnouts are 6" long. Looking at the row of 10 turnouts I instantly knew these alone would take about 60" or 5 ft. Then you still need to add space for the yard-tracks, the two end-curves and some extra space for the engine terminal. Tan-coloured are (Armstrong) squares. By using them you can easily estimate the total length a track configuration will take. BTW when printing out turnouts from CAD 1:1 you are able to find their length. Peco has done it for their line of turnouts and placed it on the web. Their turnouts are shorter, however keep in mind you might have to use small filler pieces to obtain the required spacing. A 180 degree turn takes 37,50" , add 6" for a turnout in the middle and you still have 4,5 inches left. Enough for on more track at the bottom, still keeping 3,25" for the two spaces between the tracks and the edge of the layout. Pretty tight though just doable. On my drawing i've two turnouts in the middle, so I need half a foot more width. You could win some space by using Peco curved turnouts, they don't come really cheap however.
I've contacted Atlas, to try and get length and width for their turnouts. I got an email address, so I'll send it. are there custom turnout kits in code 55?
Yes, but be sitting down when you see the price:
http://www.handlaidtrack.com/N-Scale-Turnout-Track-Kits-s/415.htm
Most of the cost of that kit is in the jig and tools, not the parts. Once you have one you can build more turnouts for the cost of track rail and ties.
I've done some more measuring and I think I've found a way to get around the station predicement. so the curve on the lower right side of the layout will get moved over enough that I can place two right hand turnouts which will serve as main line track and passenger station entry. I'm going to pull the yard and make it stub ended 2 track coach yard that can house 3 coaches a track which is 19.5" long I think those tracks would be easier to access if I placed them farther back maybe below the round house and turn table so that way I won't have switches cramming up the main. does this sound like a better alternative?
I was going to have a 3-4 track yard on the Pasco side of the layout. would that be doable in 4 feet?
kevinrr Yes, but be sitting down when you see the price: http://www.handlaidtrack.com/HO-4-Turnout-Kit-for-ME-Code-55-Rail-cw-Rail-p/ak-ho-t-4-me55.htm Most of the cost of that kit is in the jig and tools, not the parts. Once you have one you can build more turnouts for the cost of track rail and ties.
http://www.handlaidtrack.com/HO-4-Turnout-Kit-for-ME-Code-55-Rail-cw-Rail-p/ak-ho-t-4-me55.htm