BrianinBuffalo Gary; I have enough power to run them all at once if I want. Running all six at once would be near impossible on my Scenic Ridge layout as their is really only one main line with a passing siding. I can easily run 2 trains with 3 locos in a consist no problem. BLM has the NCE Powercab for $139.00 when and if you interested. That is the best price I have seen anywhere. Cheers, Brian Go Sharks, Go Sens!
Gary;
I have enough power to run them all at once if I want. Running all six at once would be near impossible on my Scenic Ridge layout as their is really only one main line with a passing siding. I can easily run 2 trains with 3 locos in a consist no problem.
BLM has the NCE Powercab for $139.00 when and if you interested. That is the best price I have seen anywhere.
Cheers,
Brian
Go Sharks, Go Sens!
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
That's great!!! Is it 6 locos at one time with the rest shut off? I was going to try and realistically represent the SP&S on the layout so the number of locomotives on layout wasn't going to be overwhelming but just enough to show the presence. I was going to have 2 RS1's #50 and 51(needs to be bought and painted), SP&S #802 & 804(both need to be purchased and painted), #750(E7A that I will buy myself for my upcoming birthday), all three SP&S GP9's(T.T. equipped must be bought painted), an NW2(must be bought and painted), and an S2 or S4(must be bought and painted). this was part of my reason for being reluctant to switch to DCC because I have lots of locomotives that will need to be bought painted and decaled. Why? because the manufacturers don't love me and won't produce any SP&S stuff .
Come on Sharks Get us A STANLEY!
out of curiousity how many N scale locos could one DCC system power without booster(s) and with booster(s)? If multi cab wiring is as bad as Alco says then it would be easier and more time saving to switch to DCC but it will cost more.
I know 3-4 of my locos will need to be milled out in order to have DCC installs, I know my AC4400CW, SD70MAC, upcoming F3AB set, and some other locomotives are DCC ready? a couple of them I'd like sound in my BNSF locos atleast because I plan on getting more of them.
Burlington Northern #24 I don't really want to give up on it, but with outside pressures, track shortage, the instantaneous barrage of DCC info, and various other problem. It would seem that there's no point.
I don't really want to give up on it, but with outside pressures, track shortage, the instantaneous barrage of DCC info, and various other problem. It would seem that there's no point.
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
alco_fan Burlington Northern #24out of curiosity which scale are you in? N scale back when the quality was not nearly as good as today (pre 1991). HO since then. I have some buddies doing N scale now and if it ran like it does now back in the day I would still be in N today. But I have gone too far down the HO road now I hear from them that Atlas 55 will be arriving soon. Keep going!
Burlington Northern #24out of curiosity which scale are you in?
N scale back when the quality was not nearly as good as today (pre 1991). HO since then. I have some buddies doing N scale now and if it ran like it does now back in the day I would still be in N today. But I have gone too far down the HO road now
I hear from them that Atlas 55 will be arriving soon. Keep going!
ok, well it will have to sit for a little bit more. this atlas track shortage is killing me. out of curiosity which scale are you in?
the post I was referencing was when AC asked you what you personally knew of my wiring. your response to that was what hit it. No I'm not mad at you I was just a bit frustrated I'll admit my first layout wasn't the best but I only had one powerpack at that time. My apologies if it seems that this came of as an aggressive pursuit or hostile action. I didn't mean for it to be like that.
As for what I want(or wanted) I was to be honest not entirely sure.
Burlington Northern #24I'm trying to build up the steam to go back there and give another shot but your comment the other day coupled with outside pressures hit a fuse. I don't mind constructive criticism but it doesn't help when the criticism is neither constructive nor comes from a person who has not shown their work. I'm not being disrespectful or rude when I say that, but I don't believe it's fair to have my work judged by those who refuse to show theirs.
If you are blaming me, you are blaming the wrong guy. I never criticized your work, I only noted that you had not yet wired multiple cab DC and therefore were not in a good position to comment on DCC versus multiple cab DC. My exact words from that thread:
alco_fan If you want to stay DC, do that by all means. I have said that multiple times. Read my posts. But until you personally wire a layout with _multiple cab_ DC with _independent control_ of the trains _anywhere_ on the layout, you do not know what is involved, trust me. So you do not have the experience to make the assertion that DC and DCC are "the same".
If you want to stay DC, do that by all means. I have said that multiple times. Read my posts.
But until you personally wire a layout with _multiple cab_ DC with _independent control_ of the trains _anywhere_ on the layout, you do not know what is involved, trust me. So you do not have the experience to make the assertion that DC and DCC are "the same".
Then I said:
alco_fan You missed my point. I applaud your start. We all started there (except maybe Sheldon). It is better than sitting on the sidelines. All I said was that it has not, so far, given you the background to make a definitive comment about wiring multiple cab DC. Keep going!
You missed my point. I applaud your start. We all started there (except maybe Sheldon). It is better than sitting on the sidelines.
All I said was that it has not, so far, given you the background to make a definitive comment about wiring multiple cab DC.
Keep going!
Then I spent a considerable amount of time trying to help you understand multiple cab DC wiring with Atlas components, which _you_ indicated that you were not able to grasp from Atlas book. I also note that I am the _only_ person on that thread to try to help you with _DC_.
So let me recap
- I do not have any opinion at all about your work good or bad except to say (again!!!) that it is great that you have started.
- I do not think you need to go DCC if you do not want to. But I do think it is important that you understand multiple engines running with DC better so that you can achieve what you want on your layout with DC or DCC.
- I tried to help you understand multiple cab DC wiring better
- I will say (again!!!) Keep going!
- I hope you do not give up. If you do, it is not accurate to blame anyone else for it.
- Keep going!
Good luck.
alco_fan It is easy to become discouraged when you want a lot in a small space and it does not all fit. It has seemed like you imagined more than could fit in 4X6 So look at it the other way and start with what does fit. Some layout is always better than nothing.
It is easy to become discouraged when you want a lot in a small space and it does not all fit. It has seemed like you imagined more than could fit in 4X6
So look at it the other way and start with what does fit. Some layout is always better than nothing.
BrianinBuffalo Gary; Please don't give up. You are learning a lot. It looks like you are having a lot of fun too. Brian
Please don't give up. You are learning a lot. It looks like you are having a lot of fun too.
I was never discouraged about the layout, but there's no point it anymore. I've already cleaned it off and will be storing my trains until I feel ready to pull them out again.
I made some modifications changed it around all I need was the track, how to wire it, and how to make a mountainous/ riverside looking terrain. Instead of further wasting my time and money on this layout, I'll wait until I have the space and money to re pursue this goal again.
I'm not going to bother with it anymore I made simple guidelines I was trying to stay between, but it seemed that it wasn't going to happen and I knew better too.
Gary,
Kato Unitrack is pretty reliable and easy to enhance in appearance - see for yourself:
I would but I like to use atlas track because I can ballast it myself.
it's done, there's just no point in it anymore.
yeah, I'm just going to bail on this layout there's no point in it anymore. it's a project that will never see fruition.
current DCC ready fleet: AC4400CW, SD70MAC, GP40-2, SD40, 2x Alco FA/FB, 4-8-2, GS-4, E5A, and NW2.
non DCC ready: F7A, RS1, E8A, and 4-8-4.
upcoming release pre order locos: F3 AB set, Dash 8-32BWH
Future purchases: E7A, F3A(multiple), RS units(unknown if DCC ready), another NW2, S-2 or S-4, possible C424/425, possible F7's.
You might consider getting the DCC ready locos if you have the option. It will make things easier if you make a switch later--you know plugging in a decoder instead of wiring it.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
my fleet probably won't get much bigger than this, one more RS1, an Alco FA/FB pair, an E7, a trio of RS3's. it's a 4' x 6' layout I'm going to try ad get it to look realistically populated. When the funds allow this summer I will come back and ask about a proper DCC system.
The layout is at a standstill currently, the right hand #5 ME turnout arrived yesterday and locomotives make it past the frog but the moment the front truck crosses it the loco dies and loses power. I got another pack of 4.25", a box of 1.25", and a box 15" R curve.
hi gentlemen,
Gary does understand the above very well. What bothered me was his wish to add loads of new engines (a fleet he called it) for DC- operation only. Though I do understand his wish not to invest in DCC right now, his wish to spend his money on more DC-only stuff will surely keep him from using DCC in the future. Installing decoders in a fleet of engines will turn out to be very costly when done later.
Operating a couple of trains on a DC layout, with numerous blocks you have to (dis)connect, might be not all that after all. The longer he waits the more difficult the change to DCC will become.
Wish you wisdom
Paul
What Space Mouse said and more...
With a 5 amp booster {on the DCC system's 1 to 3 amps existing}, you can run up to about 10-12 LOCOS, {maybe 15 N scale locos} on your layout AT THE SAME TIME, in ANY DIRECTION, DOING ANYTHING YOU WANT, RUNNING ALL AT THE SAME TIME with just those TWO WIRES connected to your layout! ZERO BLOCKS! {well The whole layout as ONE BIG BLOCK}
{disclaimer: your 4x6 will be fine with the above, but if it gets bigger you will want to put in feeder wires so more than 2 wires will be needed..{BUT the buss wire to feed the feeders can be run off those two wires}...and you may want blocks fused off as Space Mouse said...With 10 or 12 running you may still need feeder wires but as I said the buss can run off the initial two wires and feed all the feeders. The feeders are there just to ensure continuity of the signal to your locos.}
DCC is simple, easy, and effective.
More like realistic operations! Because you control the LOCO not the track!
Up to you.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Burlington Northern #24I know, but is DCC really different from DC?
YES!
In DC you control power to the track, In DCC you control the train--the individual locomotive. Imagine pulling into a siding and a switcher pulling in behind you and pulling off 4 cars putting on 3 and replacing your caboose. In DC you would have to move the train engine into a different block for the operation.
That is just one example. You can match power of dissimilar locos in consists. You can run independent helper engines.
Track wiring in DCC is two wires. Very simple, very cheap. No blocks. In DC, the more you grow your layout the more complicated it gets. DCC is still two wires. (although when it gets really big it pays to put in circuit breakers in each section.) I understand reluctance to wire small locos. Only you can decide if you want to try it. The first one is the hardest.
I know, but is DCC really different from DC? to be Honest I feel all I'd be doing is pouring money into a system that performs essentially the same task. I understand what you guys are trying to say, I'd love to switch it's just not a very economically viable option at the moment.
Hi Gary,
A 6x4 is a rather small layout, you have just found out how much space even one turnout takes. Why invest on a fleet of engines when already 3 or 4 are all you need.
Did you do any research on the cost of wiring? Also toggle switches don't come free.
Anyway, is it time to invest in the future? Or will you be adding more and more NON-DCC stuff? Knowing that changing later will become even more costly.
The above is not telling you what to do, but is meant as an invitation to think hard about the best way to spend your money and resources.
SmilePaul
hmmmmm, I think I'll just have to pass on it. I really like my DC locos, some of them are runs that may never happen again like my BN F7, E units, the Execs., the SP&S Alco RS1, and a couple other locos. I'm not ruling it out for the future, but at the current moment I'd like to get an SP&S fleet and layout up and running before I do anything else. then I'll switch, get milled frames, etc.
This is just an FYI:
not to sway you {though that may happen anyway,} but to give you food for thought that I used and converted my HO to DCC.: { I started anew in HO with nothing and went the DC route but the more I read about DCC I decided I wanted that, so I put away the DC locos and started buying DCC locos}:
~ A free offer of a DCC set...even the simple one..would allow you to test out DCC and decide with at-hand information. AS I said your whole layout could be wired with just two wires. {I have the B EZC so I am prejudiced, but it is simple to use and can run 3 HO locos, so N locos could possible run 4 or 5 on just those two wires!.
~ Dcc is required if you decide you want sound. Some locos have a no-dcc sound system, but not so good. You will want a higher lever DCC system to control all the sounds though, thee B EZC only does a few.
~DCC Seems more expensive but the convenience is remarkable. Its like having had a model T and now a 2013 car with A/c cruise, etc. You Can buy a cheap basic standard car that will "Get the job done" but for a few dollars more you can get the conveniences.
~ I am on a tight budget {non-existent the last 2 years} but when I did have a budget, I made ti work to get my DCC OnBoard locos. The Bachmanns are great quiet runners that have lasted me well the last 7 or 8 years. I expect more good use in the future.
~ COnverting IS something I won't/Can't do as I can fry a toaster getting it out of the box. SO I only get DCC onboards and wasted money on DC stuff before I saw the value in the DCC.
~ ONE controller Can control all those locos the system will handle {boosters are available for them to run more locos}, whereas you may need more than one power source for your DC control. In DCC Simply select the loco you want to control and away you go with that one running, while you select another and run it too.
~ wiring is so simple its not funny!
~ once you transfer the DCC stuff won't "seem so expensive" for the value you get.
~ Remember My HO scale layout is smaller than your N scale {3.5 x 5.1 feet} with 2 interconnected ovals, a 4 spur yard and a 2 spur engine facility inside the inner oval. I Can run 3 locos anywhere on that and not have a problem with controlling blocks etc. SO a small layout can benefit from DCC.
~ you Can always sell or convert your fleet,,, I gave away my DC stuff or traded for something I wanted they were brand new DC locos and I bought DCC ones instead of converting because I can't do it. SO oh, well, i wasted a few bucks on my tight budget {I am disabled and on a fixed income "pension"}
~ you CAN get DCC controllers for everything from turnout switches to signals to TTs to auto uncoupling/coupling devices on board!
you are free to decide, but don't rule out DCC as DC may not disappear altogether, but DCC is the wave of the future..so, come on, ride in on that wave!
Just food for thought and
BrianinBuffalo Burlington Northern #24 Thank you Brian, but I'll have to pass on this one. Spacemouse I understand that but, DCC is not something I'm ready for. I understand that if your in this hobby you should be able to afford nearly everything out there, I'd rather spend that money on locos, rolling stock, buildings, and scenic details. I just picked up atlas' book on wiring a layout, if I do switch it'll be easy to take lessons I learned here and use them later. Honestly though the only reason I'd switch is if I switched to HO or O. No Problem Just ask if you change your mind. I have a friend that collected many hundreds of Locos (N scale) and never got into DCC. He has as much fun with his Trains as I do with mine. Cheers, Brian
Burlington Northern #24 Thank you Brian, but I'll have to pass on this one. Spacemouse I understand that but, DCC is not something I'm ready for. I understand that if your in this hobby you should be able to afford nearly everything out there, I'd rather spend that money on locos, rolling stock, buildings, and scenic details. I just picked up atlas' book on wiring a layout, if I do switch it'll be easy to take lessons I learned here and use them later. Honestly though the only reason I'd switch is if I switched to HO or O.
Thank you Brian, but I'll have to pass on this one.
Spacemouse I understand that but, DCC is not something I'm ready for. I understand that if your in this hobby you should be able to afford nearly everything out there, I'd rather spend that money on locos, rolling stock, buildings, and scenic details. I just picked up atlas' book on wiring a layout, if I do switch it'll be easy to take lessons I learned here and use them later. Honestly though the only reason I'd switch is if I switched to HO or O.
No Problem Just ask if you change your mind.
I have a friend that collected many hundreds of Locos (N scale) and never got into DCC. He has as much fun with his Trains as I do with mine.
Wow! That's VERY nice of you, Brian!
That is one of the things I like about this forum. I've done the same for some forum members. Sent stuff I won't/can't use.
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
You can get a decent starter set for around $150. Wiring a loco is 8 wires, always the same color. Most locos sold now have plugs for rapid attachment. Only the older models need to be wired. Wiring your layout will be a lot more complicated. Now you said you were planning to buy some more power supplies. How many power supplies will add up to $150. Use the one you have to power your lights and accessories. Look, you are starting a new layout. Why spend a lot of money on a VCR age technology when it is becoming more and more obsolete every day. Old does not mean simple.