I've watched a few Youtube videos on building helixes and I don't recall any that laid the track after the helix was built. Even if there were huge pieces of perfectly radiused flex track, you still have to attach feeders and glue it down.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Door of shed is not big enough for that operation, as helix will be over 64" in diameter, and door is only 42" across.Besides I have a nice long paved and covered carport to build the helix in, and the flat level pavement should help with getting helix structure 'square'. Metal siding will only be applied to helix structure once it is in place out back of the shed.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
You have a large door in your shed. Have you considered building the entire helix in the shed and then having someone help you carry the unit out and around for installation? But then again it would depend on if you have all the benchwork done up in the shed, there may not be room.
I think the chance of having a perfect fit without headaches is slim. You could cookie cut plywood and try, however even high-end modular homes are put completely together to check for fit before they go to the final destination. That's why I suggested building the helix inside and moving it out as a whole.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Make Sectional Track in larger lengths and larger radius
I would like to make some 'sectional type track' in larger lengths, and bigger curves' than what you can purchase. And I figure to make it out of flex track.Unlike the situation where you are laying flex track out on a layout roadbed and attaching it to the roadbed, and nailing or glueing it in down in place, I'm looking to have some 'sectional tracks' that are a very consistant curves, and in larger lengths than we normally think of.So how do I make up these larger sections from normal HO flex track code100??One place I wish to employ these big curved pieces is in my double track helix,....probably 32" r and 29.5" r curves. And I would be laying the track down in big curved sections AFTER I had the helix and its roadbed constructed already. I could weave some of these big curved pieces into place, then glue them in place, and end up with a very consistant circular track helix.I would also like to have a number of longer 24" curved pieces I could place in my staging track construction. All of these curves want to be nice consistant, minimum 24" ones,...
If I had a stack of 24" radius 90 degree turn 'sections of track' like these I could simply cut each one down for its respective length as opposed to laying out each individual flex track for each curve while trying to maintan a 24" curve.
Check out the HO Alignment Gauges by Ribbonrail...less than $5 each, and virtually any radius you could possibly need.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Wow. I din't notice that I was responding to a five year old thread. Its nice to see my opinion hasn't changed much in those years.
Its pretty easy to align sectional track. Then solder the joints. Perfectly consistent curve all the way through to the very end.
- Douglas
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
They make sectional track in 18, 22, and 24 inch radius curves, and each piece is uniform from one to the next. If I was to make a perfect half circle of track in one of these tight radii, I wouldn't use flex track, since I don't think its really meant to be bent into tight radii anyway.
I use flex track to make broader curves, or to do what it was designed to do, make a straight line of track unstraight.
In making broader continuous curves, the methods discussed work well.
I used a yardstick trammel. Plus curve templates 22-36" that I cut from a brown paper roll. I used variable curves in several areas. And included simple easements, not worrying about precision as they are always better than an immediate transition.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Sometimes I use sectional track for curves to make sure I don’t cheat and make them to tight. However if you only use sectional track your layout will be too symmetrical. I use flex track as easements which allow the line to flow more naturally. Sometimes I use sectional track as a guide and use a pencil to trace the track onto the roadbed, then replace it with flex track.
The guides which fit between the rails seem like a great idea but I have never tried them.
The string/ruler method only works if you have the room and something to attach it to.
j.......
riogrande5761both require a fixed point to attach to - which is the trick.
Got a tripod for your camera? That's what I use.
But... after 5 years since the question was asked, my bet is that he's figured it out of no longer cares.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
Steven Otte Hi, Rob, To help me plot curves on my home layout, I used the string method to mark four semicircles on cardboard at four different radii. I then cut them out along those curves to make two templates. The innermost curve on the first template is 16" radius plus half the width of track gauge, so I can snug the curve up against the outside of the flextrack to get the 16" curve I want. The outside curve is 20" minus half gauge, so I can get a 20" curve by snugging the template up against the inside of the track. The other template is likewise sized for 18" and 22" curves. I tend to curve my easements by eye, but having these templates handy lets me make sure that my track doesn't exceed my minimum radii, and it also helps me eyeball where a curve will or won't fit.
Hi, Rob,
To help me plot curves on my home layout, I used the string method to mark four semicircles on cardboard at four different radii. I then cut them out along those curves to make two templates. The innermost curve on the first template is 16" radius plus half the width of track gauge, so I can snug the curve up against the outside of the flextrack to get the 16" curve I want. The outside curve is 20" minus half gauge, so I can get a 20" curve by snugging the template up against the inside of the track. The other template is likewise sized for 18" and 22" curves. I tend to curve my easements by eye, but having these templates handy lets me make sure that my track doesn't exceed my minimum radii, and it also helps me eyeball where a curve will or won't fit.
String or trammel (I use a home made trammel), both require a fixed point to attach to - which is the trick. In many cases I have to fix a board to the layout temporarily and strategically so I can attach my trammel (or your string) to make to plot the curve center line.
As for easements, draw my curve centerlines so that they intersect the tangent with an offset of about a half inch (using John Armstrongs table in Track Planning for Realistic Operation on Easements); then I make marks into the curve and the tangent at the distance recommended my John A. I like the springy Atlas flex because it will naturally "spring" and bend to the easement by tacking it down on the centerline of the tangent and then "spring away through the mark on the offset and then gradually into and onto the curve centerline at the mark where it should be "on the curve centerline". Works great for me.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
richhotrain Doughless: Beyond (or better) a 24 inch radii, he will need to use flex track, in which case the methods suggested for laying it become more relevant, IMO. Not necessarily. The Walthers web site shows Shinohara Track in curved sections up to 36" radius in Code 100. Rich
Doughless: Beyond (or better) a 24 inch radii, he will need to use flex track, in which case the methods suggested for laying it become more relevant, IMO.
Beyond (or better) a 24 inch radii, he will need to use flex track, in which case the methods suggested for laying it become more relevant, IMO.
Not necessarily. The Walthers web site shows Shinohara Track in curved sections up to 36" radius in Code 100.
Rich
Yippie! Now I can make broad geometrically consistent curves as easily as I make sharp ones.
I second the motion about using a chain or a yardstick with holes.
String is too flexible.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
robdmarch Hi everyone, This is going to be my first time laying flextrack (H.O. ) and I was wondering what method is the best and most used for making radius bends whether it is 18" ,22" , 24" , or better. the only thing I could think of was a piece of string attached to a pencil and nail and measure the string half of whatever the desired measurement and mark the radius that way?
Hi everyone, This is going to be my first time laying flextrack (H.O. ) and I was wondering what method is the best and most used for making radius bends whether it is 18" ,22" , 24" , or better. the only thing I could think of was a piece of string attached to a pencil and nail and measure the string half of whatever the desired measurement and mark the radius that way?
Just a caveat. That method will work. But when you're tensioning the string while drawing, it will tend to stretch and throw your radius off.
Try using something more solid (like a small chain?). Won't stretch and will give you consistent results.
Doughless Beyond (or better) a 24 inch radii, he will need to use flex track, in which case the methods suggested for laying it become more relevant, IMO.
Alton Junction
St Francis Consolidated RR I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii?
I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii?
That was sort of my observation about the original post, especially as it pertains to the sharp radii he was talking about, 18, 22, or 24 (he did offer "or better"). If you want exactly geometrical (sharp) radii, there are ways to accomplish that other than using flex track. He could even combine sectional track of incrementally sharper radii like a 24, 22, 18, 18, 18, 22, and a 24 combination to make it less geometrically consistent and kind of achieve a poor man's spiral easement thingy.
dknelson St Francis Consolidated RR: I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii? That way you can make curves look more like most real railroads, which I think adapt to the lay of the land and not to geometrical design. To a certain extent I agree. For a meandering short line dodging water and rock and the like, for sure. Ditto for certain spurs. But on my mainline class 1 prototype, the area I model was in fact mostly a tangent -- and thus my curves are reluctant concessions to the fact that my house is not infinitely long or wide. For the two primary curves therefore it made the most sense, and was most efficent in terms of preserving tangents to the highest extent, to settle on a fixed radius curve. Again as my prior post mentions I do use spiral easement curves where the curve meets the tangent, and again that is a topic in and of itself. Suffice to say that prototype roads were very mindful of the proper degree of curve for equipment, maximum speed, geographic features and the like, because timetable instructions to crewmen needed to be exact about this -- and other than easement curves many prototype railroad engineering staffs would in fact use more or less exact degree curvatures. Dave Nelson
St Francis Consolidated RR: I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii? That way you can make curves look more like most real railroads, which I think adapt to the lay of the land and not to geometrical design.
I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii? That way you can make curves look more like most real railroads, which I think adapt to the lay of the land and not to geometrical design.
To a certain extent I agree. For a meandering short line dodging water and rock and the like, for sure. Ditto for certain spurs. But on my mainline class 1 prototype, the area I model was in fact mostly a tangent -- and thus my curves are reluctant concessions to the fact that my house is not infinitely long or wide. For the two primary curves therefore it made the most sense, and was most efficent in terms of preserving tangents to the highest extent, to settle on a fixed radius curve. Again as my prior post mentions I do use spiral easement curves where the curve meets the tangent, and again that is a topic in and of itself. Suffice to say that prototype roads were very mindful of the proper degree of curve for equipment, maximum speed, geographic features and the like, because timetable instructions to crewmen needed to be exact about this -- and other than easement curves many prototype railroad engineering staffs would in fact use more or less exact degree curvatures.
Dave Nelson
Thanks for the insight, Dave. Makes a lot of sense.....my limited personal observations are with our mountains in Colorado here and in the city, where blowing up mountainsides to make life easier on railroads isn't always feasible, and in the city where you have buildings and other people's property to deal with. I guess I need to get out more! I've never seen a great big curve out where there's a lot of room.
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
St Francis Consolidated RR I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii? That way you can make curves look more like most real railroads, which I think adapt to the lay of the land and not to geometrical design.
Also when using flex track.Solder 2 36in section togeather by cutting out the ties where the 2 meet enough so the ties to not hamper the bending.Then replace ties after laying.This is if your making large curves.Bob
A company called Ribbonrail makes metal templates in 5 inch and 10 inch lengths that fit between the rails to shape the curves. These templates come in various radii from 15" to 48".
I could be wrong about real railroads, but I think curves on model railroads are more interesting if they aren't geometrically perfect. (And, by the way, I'm not sure if figuring radii is a form of math, geometry, trigonometry or what, but I hope you get what I'm saying!!)
I use a trammel to mark the center lines on the subroadbed, and when laying very easily flexed track such as Atlas, that is really about all you need, with special attention where it meets the tangent (I introduce easement curves but that is a bit OT).
As a rule I use adhesive caulk to lay my flex track so I like to "get it right" as (not after) it is being placed on the subroadbed.
For tougher to bend flex track such as Micro Engineering, as well as the P.S.C. brand superelevation flex track, I use the radius templates sold by Ribbonrail (there are actually a number of brands of very similar products) These are pieces of aluminum milled to HO width and a fixed radius curve. You run the template through the flex track repeatedly and after a while it "takes" the curve. But it isn't super precise so for example you may need a 30" radius curve template to end up with a 32 inch radius curve, and so on. that is why I bought a rather complete set of the Ribbonrail templates. it also came with several lengths of tangents. Those tangents are also useful because just as certain brands of flex track are very hard to curve, so are they very hard to make perfectly straight without help. And the tangent tracks are also useful for Atlas flex track because while it has a natural tendency to straighten out, it is not perfectly straight.
Again the goal with curves is for the track to be flexed and curved just the way I want it BEFORE placing it on the adhesive caulk that secures the track. But sometimes I need track nails or pins to help out during the track laying process -- once the caulk sets those can be removed. Sometimes it is a slow process of using the template to create a curve, using a track nail to secure the track in place and continuing down the line. You have a little time to work the caulk but not alot so you learn to pace yourself and not put down caulk when you won't be getting to the track.
Again this OT but the brands of track that are very hard to flex -- if you use the Ribbonrail curve templates to create a "hard" curve I find I can take the track outside for painting and weathering before laying the track. That avoids getting paint around the actual layout area except for small touch up areas.
Randy,
Good point about working with ME track. I never have used ME and was making an assumption. I think bending Atlas flex into a sharp radius is a pain, which is why I use sectional track for long 90 degree curves, or 180 degree or longer turnback loops; without easements. I assume his question was intended for laying a long span. I just solder 3 or 4 pieces of sectional track together to form a large section to work with, then trim to fit if needed before installing it on the layout. Fewer joints to kink when installing. and 3 or 4 pieces of sectional track equals 1 piece of flex, but pre-curved consistently.
See I think it is EXACTLY the opposite. It is far easier to get a smooth curve with Atlas then with ME, because the Atlas naturally creates a smooth bend. Fasten the beginnign of the curve, maybe a few inched straight, then bend it around at the far end, automatic smooth curve. To get a kink-free curve witht he stiffer track liek ME takes some practice, you have to 'walk' along the curve adjusting the ties so that the curve is smooth and even without havign alternating spots of sharper and genetler radius.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I don't know that sectional track is any easier. Unless you're very careful, you will get kinks in the track.
Personally, I use a cheap yardstick with holes drilled at the 18", 22", and 24" points. I drill them 1/4", so that they'll take a #2 pencil. Stick a nail through the "hanger" hole at the end and pound or push it gently into your layout surface, put a pencil in the appropriate hole, and trace your curve.
I have found that, by using latex caulk for an adhesive and scrap lumber and patio pavers to weight the track down while it sets, I don't have problems with things springing back on me.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
When trying to lay track with radius that sharp, I think it is easier to just use sectional track. Its a lot easier to get a consistent curve with flex track when the radius is broader than what you're trying. However, if you want broad easements between your tight radius and a straight section, you'll probably want to use flex track and use one of the methods suggested.
It also easier or more difficult depending on the brand of flex track you use. Atlas wants to snap back straight, so you'll be kind of fighting with it to make curves that sharp. Other brands (I think Micro Engineering) tend to stay put when bent, so it may be easier to use ME for sharper curves.
There is no shame in using sectional track for curves that sharp, but go for flex if you want.
Skip the string method. I always had trouble with getting consistent curves. The trammel works a lot better.
In addition to making your own you can buy trammel points that fit a yard stick. You can also make templates. I use these where the inside of the curve is to the wall and I can't use a trammel.
Enjoy