Has anyone had experiences with these track laying tools??
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Making Ribbonrail Type Gauges
I've found a great supply of reality thin alum sheet material at my metal scrap yard.
With a good bandsaw or jig saw I should be able to make a good selection of Ribbonrail type gauges.
Anyone done this, and/or suggestions??
Doughless Randy, Good point about working with ME track. I never have used ME and was making an assumption. I think bending Atlas flex into a sharp radius is a pain, which is why I use sectional track for long 90 degree curves, or 180 degree or longer turnback loops; without easements. I assume his question was intended for laying a long span. I just solder 3 or 4 pieces of sectional track together to form a large section to work with, then trim to fit if needed before installing it on the layout. Fewer joints to kink when installing. and 3 or 4 pieces of sectional track equals 1 piece of flex, but pre-curved consistently.
Randy,
Good point about working with ME track. I never have used ME and was making an assumption. I think bending Atlas flex into a sharp radius is a pain, which is why I use sectional track for long 90 degree curves, or 180 degree or longer turnback loops; without easements. I assume his question was intended for laying a long span. I just solder 3 or 4 pieces of sectional track together to form a large section to work with, then trim to fit if needed before installing it on the layout. Fewer joints to kink when installing. and 3 or 4 pieces of sectional track equals 1 piece of flex, but pre-curved consistently.
A hint to working flex into tighter radius (Atlas, Walther's ,Picco) is to over flex a few times and increase the pressure as you do the over flexing. this will start to bend the rails making it a bit easier to pull around the tight turn. T pins are a life saver when laying out the turns.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
RibbonRail, Heat Sink while Soldering
Interesting,...I think I need to get some of this stuff
TBat55 My vote is for Ribbon Rail. It acts as a heatsink when you solder so ties don't melt and make accurate curves where strings or trammels won't fit. Also keeps the curve when a heavy weight is put on top for caulk to dry.
My vote is for Ribbon Rail.
It acts as a heatsink when you solder so ties don't melt and make accurate curves where strings or trammels won't fit.
Also keeps the curve when a heavy weight is put on top for caulk to dry.
Terry
riogrande5761 BATMAN I have never built a helix, but if I were to do so, I would build spline roadbed using hardboard (masonite) if I had the room to do so as it generally requires a larger radius due to the 1" thickness of the roadbed.
riogrande5761 spline road bed require a greater thickness
Yes it does. That's why I said, "if I had the room". I also said he should use plywood for his helix instead of hardboard.
Google (image) spline helixes, there are lots of examples. You will notice they are larger in diametre than your average plywood helix. That's why I qualified using spline with the "if I had the room" comment.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Thin Roadbed in the Helix
In the past I had considered several materials for constructing the roadbed within the helix. I considered PVC tubing, spine materials, aluminum plate, plywood, etc. Several of them were rejected as 'too thick'.
At the moment it has come down to plywood or double-layered masonite hard board. The hardboard would be the thin ist, and if sealed with paint, should resist changes with huminity,...I hope. At any rate I had already purchased it, and sketched up my helix to make use of it. So I will likely go forward with that 'experiment', even while having my own doubts. Fortuntially I have designed the helix in a manner that the roadbed and its tracks are supported in a 'shelf-like' manner on metal brackets mounted on the vertical metal post that surround the exterior of the loops. That shelf type construction will allow for me to change to another roadbed material if that becomes neccessary.
Some general ideas of myhelix construction,...
That alum table top hoop I pictured there is too small, so I am having some angle iron hoops constructed, one bottom one, one top one.
carl425 riogrande5761 both require a fixed point to attach to - which is the trick. Got a tripod for your camera? That's what I use. But... after 5 years since the question was asked, my bet is that he's figured it out of no longer cares.
riogrande5761 both require a fixed point to attach to - which is the trick.
Got a tripod for your camera? That's what I use.
But... after 5 years since the question was asked, my bet is that he's figured it out of no longer cares.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Doughless Why do you need roadbed in a helix? Can't you just lay the track on the plywood, and it would make a wider surface on which the track would wiggle with temperature changes.
Why do you need roadbed in a helix?
Can't you just lay the track on the plywood, and it would make a wider surface on which the track would wiggle with temperature changes.
Must have miscommunicted my intentions. I have NO plans on using roadbed in the helix. I guess I used the wrong wording. I plan on mounting the track directly onto______? (plywood, masonite, whatever)
- Douglas
doctorwayne If you wish to glue the track in place, it might be better to use 3/8" sheathing plywood, rather than Masonite. It's only an eighth of an inch thicker than your two pieces of 1/8" Masonite, and not all that expensive. You'll likely need to support it in whatever manner you were planning to use for the Masonite version. Wayne
If you wish to glue the track in place, it might be better to use 3/8" sheathing plywood, rather than Masonite. It's only an eighth of an inch thicker than your two pieces of 1/8" Masonite, and not all that expensive. You'll likely need to support it in whatever manner you were planning to use for the Masonite version.
Wayne
SeeYou190 However, even if the glue sticks well, it does not stop the fact that hardboard breaks off in flakes pretty easily. So if you glue something to the rough side it can break off if bumped and just take a thin layer of the harboard with it It is also hard to get glue to stick to OSB. Gorilla Glue or Elmer's Nano-Glue work ok, but nothing else I have found works at all. Kevin
It is also hard to get glue to stick to OSB. Gorilla Glue or Elmer's Nano-Glue work ok, but nothing else I have found works at all.
Kevin
I've been thinking about that as well, as when I was taping up my seams in the wall paneling. I did notice that if I pulled some of that Gorilla tape back off, it brought with it a thin layer of the masonite surface layer.
Track Selection
MicroEngineering flex track has been suggested, but from the looks of this video it looks difficult to get nice smooth curves,...and easements as well I would think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmE0EiWPQHk
And it would be even more difficult if you didn't have lots of overhead room to work.
I think I'll stick with Atlas flex track to make my helix.
Roadbed?....have to do some more research.
BATMAN I have never built a helix, but if I were to do so, I would build spline roadbed using hardboard (masonite) if I had the room to do so as it generally requires a larger radius due to the 1" thickness of the roadbed.
I have never built a helix, but if I were to do so, I would build spline roadbed using hardboard (masonite) if I had the room to do so as it generally requires a larger radius due to the 1" thickness of the roadbed.
Wouldn't spline road bed require a greater thickness and in a helix, you want to keep the road bed reasonably thin so you can keep the grade minimal and still have plenty of clearance over head for tallest rolling stock. I think 1/2 inch plywood makes the most sense for helix construction. I've bulit partial helixes in the past and it appears there may be one in my futre layout. (right hand side):
St Francis Consolidated RR I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii? That way you can make curves look more like most real railroads, which I think adapt to the lay of the land and not to geometrical design.
I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but isn't the point of using flex track that you DON'T have to follow exactly geometrical radii? That way you can make curves look more like most real railroads, which I think adapt to the lay of the land and not to geometrical design.
Thats fine of course. I tend to use measurements in standard increments just be cause I find it easier to work with. Of course you can do a 25 3/16 inch radius as well, nothing wrong with it.
As to methods, I used a tramel I made from a piece of wood that was shaped similar to a yard stick but longer (so I could get larger radii if I wanted).
I like Atlas springy track because it naturally bends to an even curve as it is shaped. I'll probably use it on my next layout for that reason although I have used some of the stiff track because it of the code I need - Atlas only comes in code 100 or 83, so 70 or other doesn't come in a springy type track that I am aware of.
I believe Microscale flex track will hold the curves you want. The few times I used it, I bent it to the shape I wanted, then put it on the layout. No spring back at all.
railandsail Does hot melt glue stick well to tempered hardboard (aka Masonite) ??
Does hot melt glue stick well to tempered hardboard (aka Masonite) ??
Yes, it does, I used it to build my spline roadbed, however, I also put a drywall screw through it every foot or so. That being said there no way I would use hot glue to laminate hardboard in the way you are proposing. It will not hold well or for very long in my opinion.
Plywood is the way to go for your helix. I think there is a lot of trying to reinvent the wheel going on here. You can never go wrong using sound construction methods and it will be cheaper and less frustrating in the end.
I have never built a helix, but if I were to do so, I would build spline roadbed using hardboard (masonite) if I had the room to do so as it generally requires a larger radius due to the 1" thickness of the roadbed. Plywood is probably the way to go if you don't have a workshop and/or skill to get creative.
railandsailDoes hot melt glue stick well to tempered hardboard (aka Masonite) ??
.
In my experience not much will stick to the smooth side of hardboard. The rough side is much more accepting to glue.
However, even if the glue sticks well, it does not stop the fact that hardboard breaks off in flakes pretty easily. So if you glue something to the rough side it can break off if bumped and just take a thin layer of the harboard with it.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Thanks for your clarification, Brian. My concern would be with the gluing process, especially if the heat becomes an issue: with most glue, there won't be much "give", even though the rail may want to expand, while with some glues, the heat may weaken the bond - pre-formed curves shouldn't be affected too much, as long as they can maintain the preset curve, but heat may change that, too.
By the way, the "tempered" descriptor refers to the surface of the hardboard, not to its flexibility, as many seem to believe. I used it atop my workbenches, and it does stand-up well in that application.
@Wayne,One of the reasons I began to think of having nice 3 foot long, fixed curves of track is that I am seriously considering constructing the roadbed for this helix out of a double layer of tempered hardboard. And we all know that stuff does NOT except track nails,...track would need to be glued down, and glue often takes quite some time to set up. So maintaining a nice smooth continous curves with FLEXible track might be more challenging than if the track was already in 'fixed' into curved pieces of 3' feet as the flex track is now sold.I'm going to have to give this idea some more thought. Perhaps I have confused myself....ha..ha
Sorry, Brian, but I don't understand the need for the pre-curved track sections. Once you've built the helix, hopefully with either a track centre line or perhaps also tie-end lines, you could solder two or three lengths of flextrack together, then feed them into the helix from either the top or bottom, leaving the one end sticking out. (You could also do it one length of track at a time, but I think multiples would be easier.)You could then solder another two or three pieces together, and solder them onto the ones already in the helix, then feed everything in as before, continuing until the track reaches completely through the helix. Then, using the pre-drawn lines, line-up the track and fasten it in place. I realise that your helix is going to be outside of your insulated shed, and for that reason, would suggest that you use track nails, such as those offered by Atlas, to keep the track in place. Don't use too many nails, though: if the track is affected by heat, the fact that it's curved and not fastened in too many places should let the expansion dissipate within the curves, rather than skewing the track into unuseable shapes.
I think that the process is becoming more complicated than it needs to be.
Take a bunch of sectional track, 24" radius, and solder them all together.
Mike
My You Tube
railandsailCan I bend the 36' piece of flex track to a fixed curvature, then 'freeze' it there for future use,...akin to the 10" piece of stock fix-curved track?
OK, I getchya. Never mind.
Jig and Super Glue
offered on another forum
Make a jig that holds the track in a 24" radius. Then apply super glue to every rail/tie junction. Cut the ends square. Additional cuts for smaller pieces. WARNING I have not tried this. If you do and it works, let us know. Shinohara makes sectional track in several radii from 20" to 36" including 24". Paul
Make a jig that holds the track in a 24" radius. Then apply super glue to every rail/tie junction. Cut the ends square. Additional cuts for smaller pieces. WARNING I have not tried this. If you do and it works, let us know.
Shinohara makes sectional track in several radii from 20" to 36" including 24".
Paul
Once you have 3 or 4 scetions of flextrack "blended" together...mike
Perhaps you read my thoughts wrong. I wasn't interested in making curved sections or even straight sections several lengths of flex track long each.
I probably only what each 'sectional track' to just be one length of 36" flex track. I would just like that piece of flex track to hold its curved shape I bent it to, while still be a 'free piece of track',...untacked down as of yet. Can I bend the 36' piece of flex track to a fixed curvature, then 'freeze' it there for future use,...akin to the 10" piece of stock fix-curved track?
You would have the feeder wires already attached to those curved section of track and led out to the buss wires that travel vertically up one of the vertical supports (all-thread or whatever). Then just lay the track on its road bed and adhere it in place with hot melt glue tacking with adhesive glue/caulking to finish, or perhaps just hot melt glue period.There have been a number of helix builders that questioned the need for DCC wiring to follow the track of a helix,...just wire it vertically.
railandsailSo how do I make up these larger sections from normal HO flex track code100??
Something to try, slide the rails out of a piece of flextrack, about a foot, and slide the a rails from the next section, into the first, and so one, until you have the length your looking for, if you can follow what I'm saying.
Once you have 3 or 4 scetions of flextrack "blended" together, you'll still have to use some type of radius gauge, or a compass, or a radius drawn on the track bed, whatever, to guide you as you bend the track around.
Going off topic, but I've worked on sidewalk projects, using masonite sideing for forms, because it bends, ripped to the thickness of the concrete we needed, and spliced about 50' or more together, using 4' long peices of the same masonite as splices, and then set the form inplace, staking it down to the curves and turns the site work plan called for.
Mike.