Hi. I've been following this thread from the start, as I also have one of these to build. I think mine is an early version. ( Love your photos ).
I wonder if just adding more power is only going to mask some other problem, and think Don may be on to something. The bridge should be neutral balance for most of its travel, and a flea-power motor should move it ok.
I'd vote to play with more weight in the counterweight, and check that the racks are identical so the gears don't get a bit out of step as they go along them.
Thanks to all for this discussion; I'm happy I haven't started building this thing yet.
Have fun, George
Rich,
After reading MOBILMANS post I have the same feeling that the motor doesnt have the power to
lift the bridge by itself. Iwas thinking about that yesterday while watching the race Perhaps You have
a bad motor I have had no problems with mine and it is the same as yours. Maybe thats why they
switched to 12 volts
AGAIN GOOD LUCK FRANK
Not sure if someone else mentioned this earlier, but..... Is it possible that the 6V battery just doesn't have 6V to give? If you have a DC powerpack, find the setting for 6 volts (with a meter of course) and try that for a power source. If that does the trick, then I would get TWO 6 V batteries and hook them up in parallel (I believe that is correct - again test with a meter) and that should do it.
Of course its also possible that the motor just doesn't cut it. I don't know how you would test that, but I am sure others on the site would know.
It seems like binding is pretty much ruled out as the source of the problem, so power (lack thereof) is IMHO the prime suspect.
ENJOY !!!!!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Maybe you need to add a little more to the counter-weight.
Don
HobbyDr's Workbench
zstripe Rich, In reply to Your problem. Try to remove one of the racks from the bridge and then try to lift it I was able to lift mine with just one rack on and no counter weight on It sounds like one of the racks is binding GOOD LUCK FRANK
In reply to Your problem. Try to remove one of the racks from the bridge and then try to lift it
I was able to lift mine with just one rack on and no counter weight on It sounds like one of the racks
is binding GOOD LUCK FRANK
Frank,
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried it, removing one rack from the bridge and then the other. Neither worked with the other released.
I have pretty much tried everything at this point. Removed all of the connecting rods and tried slightly smaller ones (less diameter). That didn't help either. There is no binding in the moving parts of the bridge. I removed the counterweight. That did not help.
I am ready to throw in the towel. Nothing works.
If I give the bridge some assistance with my fingers, the motor and gear works will lift the bridge. But as soon as I stop lending assistance, the bridge stops lifting. If I disconnect the racks from the bridge, the racks continue to draw back as power is applied like they should, but not if they are re-attached to the bridge. It is as if the motor cannot provide enough power to lift the bridge. Or, that the racks are not pulling the bridge up. I am clueless.
Curiously, though, the bridge lowers flawlessly when power is applied in the opposite direction.
HELP!
Rich
Alton Junction
I have reached an impasse, so I am posting this in the hopes that someone can help me with my current problem.
When I first tested the electronics on Friday afternoon, the bridge would jam halfway up in the lift process. So I disconnected the racks that hold the gear boxes and tried to raise the bridge manually. It still jammed at the same spot.
After a few hours of tinkering, I realized that I had put the walking beam support in place backwards. So, I removed the metal rods and reversed the walking beam support, then re-inserted the rods.
Once I did that, the bridge could be manually lifted all the way up, so putting the support in the correct way solved the jamming problem. However, I could no longer lift the bridge electronically with the racks back in place and the motor operating. I could lift the bridge electronically if I helped it along with my fingers but not on its own.
If I disconnect the racks from the bridge, the gears pull the racks back, so the bridge should lift when the racks are connected, but no go. I looked at the gears and the motor shaft. When the racks are connected to the bridge, the gears spin but the motors shaft does not. If I disconnect the racks from the bridge, the gears spin, the motor shaft turns, and the racks retract as they are supposed to do.
So, for some reason, with the racks connected to the bridge, the bridge will not lift. Yet, before I solved the jamming problem by correctly installing the walking beam support, the bridge did lift electronically.
I am a wit's end with this latest problem.
Incidentally, the bridge lowers perfectly every time electronically from an upright position.
Any thoughts, comments, advice?
Rich, It looks really nice. Can't wait to see it operate in the video. The more pain you endure building something, the more satisfaction you get in the end, in my experiences.
I've seen these models operate before and they are really something to watch!
Jerry
After 12 days of constant painting, gluing and assembling, I have reached the point where I can post a photo of the nearly completed bascule bridge, although I still need to put the staircases and handrails on the bridge tender house.
HobbyDr pointed out in an earlier reply that this model is one that absolutely, positively, has to be built exactly in the order the instructions require. And it isn't a 'pick-up/put-down' project. Only start a step if you have the time to completely finish. It just required a lot of concentration. His words, not mine. But, truer words were never spoken.
I got sidetracked when I had to epoxy the plastic gears on the metal rods. When I got back to the assembly process, I tried to work from memory instead of re-reading the instructions, and I paid the price. I made about four or five mistakes that had to be corrected before I got back on track.
Next up is the electronics wiring to make the bridge operational. I have already got it to operate, but I need to finalize the electronics, then I will post a video.
I have now completed all of the sub assemblies. The next step is to complete the gear work and switching assembly. Then, the sub assemblies must be connected together to finish the construction of the bascule bridge.
I did run into one obstacle. The plastic gears need to be inserted into specific spots on the metal rods (shafts). However, the center hole on the gears was small enough that I simply could not force the gears into place on the metal rods. Finally, in desperation, I took a small tool and lightly "reamed" the hole in the center of the gear. That worked and I got the gear on the shaft. However, while the gear did not spin freely, it did slip on the shaft instead of turning the shaft. Not good. So, I lightly roughed up the shaft with a metal file, then coated the spot for the gear with CA adhesive and slipped the gear into place. After letting the glue dry for a few hours, I then placed epoxy on either side of the gear where it touches the shaft and let the epoxy cure overnight. That worked and the gears are now firmly in place.
Here are some photos of the sub assemblies.
The first photo is the truss bridge superstructure:
The second photo is the rocking truss. This rocking truss rotates to lift and lower the truss bridge:
The third photo is the walking beam support shown on the left which links the rocking truss to the truss brdige superstructure. The strut is the assembly shown on the right which provides additional support to the rocking truss and stabilizes the counterweight:
The fourth photo is the A-frame which is the only fixed portion of the bridge, supporting the rocking truss and walking beam support:
The fifth photo is the counterweight which is held in place by the rocking truss and stabilized by the strut:
Not shown in these photos are two sub assemblies that I have yet to complete (1) the machine shed which house the motor and main gear assembly and (2) the bridge tender's house which sits astride the A-frame.
I will provide photos later of the completed bascule bridge and a short video of the bridge in operation.
DigitalGriffin Another thing, the motor mount plates are slide in place between 8 thin pegs which hold it there. When I opened my kit up, two of the pegs snapped off. I super glued mine back in place. (Luckily they were still in the box)
Another thing, the motor mount plates are slide in place between 8 thin pegs which hold it there. When I opened my kit up, two of the pegs snapped off. I super glued mine back in place. (Luckily they were still in the box)
DG,
This is very interesting. I recall reading this when you first posted it on 2-4-11. Now, it is 2-13-11, and I am in the process of assembling the motor and the gears on the metal rods. Two of those 8 thin pegs are simply missing from the floor of the machine shed where the motor is mounted. I did not break them off but, like your kit, they were laying in the bottom of the box along with some loose parts for the motor mounts. Probably all due to poor packaging design.
I am making good progress on the painting and assembly of the bascule bridge, and I hope to post some photos of this work in progress this weekend.
The Walthers Cornerstone Bascule Bridge is based on the Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal (B&OCT) prototype constructed in Chicago during the 1920s, spanning the south branch of the Chicago River just north of 16th Street. It is a single leaf bascule bridge designed by the Strauss Bascule Bridge Co. of Chicago.
For anyone who may be more interested in the detail, here is a link to an excellent 33-page document including some wonderful drawings of the bascule bridge in motion on page 19 of the document:
http://www.historicbridges.org/illinois/sbrr/haer-il-157.pdf
That CMR lift bridge kit is really nice. In fact,CMR makes a lot of nice stuff. (They are at the Timmonium show every year) I would LOVE for them to build a Richmond VA train station for me. But I doubt I have the $$$ for a custom model service they offer. I started scratch building one, but then I gave up about 10% the way through it.
It's static display though. (In otherwords, the lift mechanism is just for looks) I bet I could rig something up to get it to work though. :-) It depends on if there are "guide" rails for the bridge to raise up and down on to keep it in alignment.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
No it's not cheap but neither is the bascule bridge. Interestingly they sell the bridge as single track but at least one picture shows double track, maybe for a few dollars morw they can kit one up that way?
As for scratchbuilding my bridge, I need to find the photos we took years ago. Since I'm more concerned with appearance than function I won't have to be too concerned with actual dimensions and selective compression may get in the way anyhow. For the short term as long as my trains can cross the river I'll be happy.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
ruderunner Rich, have you seen the lift bridge from CMR? I intend to get one and have already figured out the placement on the layout. It's kind of big but I won't be using the approach spans since the bridge I model has towers on shore, 16" span 28.75 with towers and a fair bit longer if you use the approaches. The bascule on my layout will be right behind the lift bridge and slightly angled from it. It will have to be a truss style. If anyone has ever had Burning River ale it's pictured on the label, the upright girder thing in the picture. Former B+O bridge. For a short term fix I'll just use an Atlas or Bachman through truss bridge and figure out if one can be bashed into a bascule. That way I can use the tracks and know that whatever I do build will install easily. Function isn't an issue, heck the prototype hasn't been used in decades but it is still standing.
Rich, have you seen the lift bridge from CMR? I intend to get one and have already figured out the placement on the layout. It's kind of big but I won't be using the approach spans since the bridge I model has towers on shore, 16" span 28.75 with towers and a fair bit longer if you use the approaches.
The bascule on my layout will be right behind the lift bridge and slightly angled from it. It will have to be a truss style. If anyone has ever had Burning River ale it's pictured on the label, the upright girder thing in the picture. Former B+O bridge.
For a short term fix I'll just use an Atlas or Bachman through truss bridge and figure out if one can be bashed into a bascule. That way I can use the tracks and know that whatever I do build will install easily. Function isn't an issue, heck the prototype hasn't been used in decades but it is still standing.
ruderunner,
I had not seen that CMR lift bridge, but that is something to behold. At $296, that is not cheap.
Here is a link:
http://www.custommodelrailroads.com/liftbridge-1.aspx
For those who are interested, once on the site, click on View More Images for a 7-photo display of the lift bridge.
Since I loosely model the area south of downtown Chicago as part of my layout, I now have to use all of my power of resistance to avoid making that purchase. Thanks for nothing, ruderunner. LOL
Scratchbuilding a smaller version of rhe Walthers Cornerstone Bascule Bridge should be possible. Let us know if you decide to do it, ruderunner, and, of course, post photos. If you like, I can scan the instruction sheets for the Walthers bascule bridge and email them to you. You could use the parts illustrations to assist you in any scratchbuilding effort.
ruderunner Sorry Rich, I didn't intend to start a hijack! Thanks for the advise guys but this is supposed to be a thread about the Walther bridge.
Sorry Rich, I didn't intend to start a hijack! Thanks for the advise guys but this is supposed to be a thread about the Walther bridge.
This is outrageous, you Hijacker you.
LOL
Just kidding.
Actually, several replies have obviously responded sympathetically to your plight, and I find it all very interesting.
When it comes to the subject of bridges, there is just not a lot of variety out there in available kits. The Walthers Cornerstone Bascule Bridge is a good example, being retired and out of production for some years now, and very limited availability.
I am interested in eventually building a lift bridge like the PRR lift bridge over the south branch of the Chicago River here in Chicago. To my knowledge no similar lift bridge is available, so I would have to scratch build this model.
So, any comments or replies that are bridge related are fine with me.
Rich...
I feel your pain. I kitbashed a couple of old AHM and Pola circa 1960s rolling lift bridges to get what I needed for my layout and it wasn't easy. But I was determined to make it work and in the end, I think that it did (see below).
Yikes! I have two more of these *** bridges to build on the layout. I'm still engineering the motorized lift mechanism from under the layout for the first one...ect...ect...ect!
Anyway, good luck with the Walthers kit. I think you'll come through with flying colors when all is said and done!
ruderunnerWhat is the footprint of the base? And does it appear that the span can be shortened from the 21" that I've read it is? I'd need 10-12" span.
Hi, if you're not committed to it being a truss bridge, the old AHM Rolling Bridge is easy to convert longer or shorter since it's a plate bridge. I got one off EBay a few years ago. Actually, it's been packaged under various brands over the ages.
On the N scale model, the base tracks are 2 7/16" and the deck is 4 7/8"
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1135&bih=651&q=ahm+rolling+bridge&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
zstripe RICH; In regards to the counter weight on the Bascule Bridge leave the hatch cover off the weight and after You have it on the Bridge take a funnel and add sand to it about half full. That is what I did to mine and it works perfect. I had it since they first came out. HAVE FUN FRANK
RICH;
In regards to the counter weight on the Bascule Bridge leave the hatch cover off the weight
and after You have it on the Bridge take a funnel and add sand to it about half full. That is what
I did to mine and it works perfect. I had it since they first came out.
HAVE FUN FRANK
Thanks,
I thought about doing just that, but this morning, I added 5 ounces of automobile wheel lead weights before sealing the counterweight. The weights come with double faced tape, so it all worked pretty easily. Then, I sealed that cap on that you are referring to.
I bought mine several years ago and it is still in the box. Thanks for the “heads up” on the construction problems.
Doc
I started construction of the Walthers Cornerstone Bascule Bridge today. It is not for the inexperienced or faint of heart. I am using every form of weight and bracing known to man - - - and then some.
The instructions are awful. Parts are mentioned by number in the text that do not appear on the instruction sheet diagrams. Parts are illustrated and numbered on the instruction sheet but are not mentioned in the text of the instructions. Some parts have duplicate numbers with other parts. LOL
I am not worried because I have done enough of the Walthers Cornerstone kits to fee comfortable. You just have to take it slow.
Like any bridge kit, there are several four sided parts, so to speak. For example, the girder sides have matching outside and inside frameworks that must be glued together for both the left side and the right side of the bridge, then joined together. So, I am painting parts as I go. For Instance, the inside piece of each pair is getting painted while I can still reach it with a brush, allowed to dry, then glued to its mate. I will paint the outside, top and bottom later.
There is also a little warpage on the track bed of all places but it too is fixable. The other issue is with the counterweight. It does not fit completely square, so I will use some epoxy to cover the gaps. With sanding and painting, it will not be noticeable.
Walthers says to add 5 ounces of weight inside the counterweight. Gee, thanks for including the 5 ounces of weight, not.
At some point, I will need to stop assembly and deal with the motor because that needs to be enclosed in the bridge house. Digital Griffin, if you are reading this, I sent you a PM (Conversation) on your electrical diagram).
I will post some photos as I get further into the assembly process.
ruderunner, before I scored the Cornerstone Bascule Bridge on e-Bay, I was playing with two Walthers' double-track truss bridges, figuring how to bash them into a bascule bridge. Very promising. If you get two of them, or two of the single-track version, I think you will be inspired.
Wow that's truly huge. Way too big for what I need. I guess I'll have to scratchbuild, UGH!
ruderunner I'll be following this thread as well since I'm in need of a bascule bridge for an area of my layout. But I hadn't really considered the Walthers kit due to the long span. But now that there's someone who has a kit and it's open perhaps you can answer a couple questions for me. What is the footprint of the base? And does it appear that the span can be shortened from the 21" that I've read it is? I'd need 10-12" span.
I'll be following this thread as well since I'm in need of a bascule bridge for an area of my layout. But I hadn't really considered the Walthers kit due to the long span. But now that there's someone who has a kit and it's open perhaps you can answer a couple questions for me.
What is the footprint of the base? And does it appear that the span can be shortened from the 21" that I've read it is? I'd need 10-12" span.
ruderunner.
Here are the dimensions: Span=21.50", Approach=7.25",Counterweight=5.50".
So, the entire footprint is 34.25" in length.
It would appear that the only way to shorten the span would be to kitbash.
Thanks for that diagram and those comments.
I plan to start assembly of the bascule bridge this coming week, and I will get back to you and all who are following this thread.
Oh and when it's finally assembled, it may not be completely flat at the four support points of the bridge. My rocked a tad bit. It was nothing a little sanding didn't take care of. But it can get tricky when one of the legs you have to sand has the wire coming out of it.