Deleted post
Rich
Thanks for the reply. I did think about using all #4's but wanted to makes sure my 6 axle loco's didnt derail coming into the yard. They have a straight shot into the engine house with the #4's so I dont think that will be a problem.
The newer design is coming along nicely and hopefully have it done shortly. I did add a few curved turnouts which helped alot and although it doesnt look like the yard I am trying to model it is close. Yea adding that 2' helped out. Actually making the radius into the yard from 22" to 24" so that will help out more also. I called the LHS and they were out of that book so I will have to order it online.
My yard will be used more for storage of cars more than anything. I will be doing some switching with in the yard and building small trains. I am free lance modeling the CSX here in Illiniois. So my theme of the layout is Agriculture. Going to have a couple of grain elevators, ehtanol plant, fertilizer plant, small town, 2-lane roads, etc. I threw in the intermodel yard because I take my wife to Chicago every now and then to her eye doctor and we pass a UP yard that has a intermodel yard right next to the main yard, so that is the reason for that but I may have room somewhere else for it.
It is coming along nicely. Bench work hopefully starts this weekend.
Brad
hi Brad; been following this thread ,please post your final plan as Id like to see it, and maybe give a reveiw of your experiance with any rail software, as I did try the free down load and like much of it ,mostly the way you could shape the flex track ,much easier for me than atlas 10 . but with all the money invested in this I was a little hesitant to buy it ,now Im rethinking after struggiling with atlas 10 ,but it is free.... .let us know Jerry
BDP Rich Thanks for the reply. I did think about using all #4's but wanted to makes sure my 6 axle loco's didnt derail coming into the yard. They have a straight shot into the engine house with the #4's so I dont think that will be a problem. Brad
Brad,
I assume from that reply that those 6 axle diesels leave the mainline for the yard on #6 turnouts but do not enter the ladder tracks via the #4 turnouts. Is that correct?
If that is the case, you might consider odave's suggestion to install a dedicated switching lead just before the ladder tracks to accomodate long freights without blocking the main line. You could use #6 turnouts to construct the switching lead. That way, your 6 axle diesels don't have to go all around the yard on that shortest track to exit the yard.
Alton Junction
I have what I would call 2 main lines. The furthest outer track is the first main line for any passing train to get through. The second inner one I would call a 2nd main line but could be blocked in need be. I do see what you are saying though. And yes as of now I dont plan on having my 6 axle loco's going off of the #4 turnouts into the yard just to pass through to the diesel house.
I am starting to think that I should start over with this and come up with something else. Although I do like how it is but is it really accessible as a yard should be? I guess that is the question. I assumed that if the real deal kinda looked like this then it should be ok but the more I study it maybe it should be changed. I do like the double ended yard but maybe I should switch to something else. Wish my LHS carried any books on yard layouts.
BDP Rich I have what I would call 2 main lines. The furthest outer track is the first main line for any passing train to get through. The second inner one I would call a 2nd main line but could be blocked in need be. I do see what you are saying though. And yes as of now I dont plan on having my 6 axle loco's going off of the #4 turnouts into the yard just to pass through to the diesel house. I am starting to think that I should start over with this and come up with something else. Although I do like how it is but is it really accessible as a yard should be? I guess that is the question. I assumed that if the real deal kinda looked like this then it should be ok but the more I study it maybe it should be changed. I do like the double ended yard but maybe I should switch to something else. Wish my LHS carried any books on yard layouts.
I have something similar. My layout is a double mainline with a yard as well. In the diagram that follows, red and blue are the main lines. Green is the switching lead. The orange tracks are the storage tracks and the black track is my ladder with a "runaround" track for switchers.
If I were you, I would not start over. Stick with the double end yard, just consider adding the switching lead for added flexibility.
You will love that Kalmbach book on freight yards. Lots of drawings and lots of good ideas.
Thanks Rich
I just like the double ended yard as well. I am still working on it in AnyRail to make it better. Having an additional 2' in width helps and I have since moved my #6 turnouts that start the "Second Main" down has allowed me to have 24" radius on the #1 main line and somewhere between 22 and 23 with the 2nd main line. Some of that will be flex track.
Finding the Shinohara curved turnouts helps out alot. I am using #6's to enter the first stage of the yard and allows me more of what I am trying to do. I have my alert radius set at 22* so nothing is smaller than that. Should work out ok. Also moving some stuff on the layout to make it better also.
BDPFinding the Shinohara curved turnouts helps out alot. I am using #6's to enter the first stage of the yard and allows me more of what I am trying to do. I have my alert radius set at 22* so nothing is smaller than that.
If you are talking about the Shinohara Code 100 #6 curved turnout, the effective inner radius is probably closer to 19-20", signficantly shaper than your other curves. Most CAD programs only flag the curves you draw, not the internal curves of the turnouts.
BDPWish my LHS carried any books on yard layouts.
Why not just buy the Sperandeo book from Amazon or Kalmbach directly?
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
hi Brad
look at this yard:
Important are the drill track and the separate connection of the arrival and departure tracks in comparison to the classification and storage tracks.
Paul
Paulus Jas hi Brad look at this yard: Important are the drill track and the separate connection of the arrival and departure tracks in comparison to the classification and storage tracks. Paul
hi
page 28 in Freight Yards by Andy Sperandeo and page 26 in Track Planning For Realistic Operation by John Armstrong.
http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html (Bisguier-yarddesign)
I do like that one. Gives you the double ended yard but then gives you the dead ends for storage like you said.
Do you by chance know what type of turnouts that are used in that so I could plug them into a design in AnyRail? If not I can print it out and try to copy it freehand. The yard I am working on is coming along nicely also. The extra 2' is helping out. I am able to keep the curves at the end at 24*.
Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'.
hi brad
atlas #6
Looking good, Brad.
Keep us posted on your progress and include some photos.
BDP Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'.
Looks okay for staging. Leads too short for switching without fouling the main.
Stein
steinjr BDP: Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'. Looks okay for staging. Leads too short for switching without fouling the main. Stein
BDP: Here is my second version of the yard I started. I made it better to expand to 20' instead of 18'.
Stein; Im not trying to highjack,but you raise a question in me with "fouling the main" ,I do get the reason an importance ,but what if a major manufacfuer wanted to build a factory just north of Brads yard ,say where the backwall is . how does Brads railroad pick-up and deliver to this factory without "fouling the main" or atleast crossing it from the Yard ?... this will help me Jerry
hi Jerry
you have to foul the main, the cross-over i added from the yard-lead to the main will help a lot speeding up things.
But classification is a continuous job, it would foul the main very often on a pike with lots of traffic, like most model railroads. An industry is often only served a couple a times a week. Also real yards are compromises. On busy (model)railroads the lead track prevents blocking the main for to long a time.
BIG JERR Stein; Im not trying to highjack,but you raise a question in me with "fouling the main" ,I do get the reason an importance ,but what if a major manufacfuer wanted to build a factory just north of Brads yard ,say where the backwall is . how does Brads railroad pick-up and deliver to this factory without "fouling the main" or atleast crossing it from the Yard ?
Stein; Im not trying to highjack,but you raise a question in me with "fouling the main" ,I do get the reason an importance ,but what if a major manufacfuer wanted to build a factory just north of Brads yard ,say where the backwall is . how does Brads railroad pick-up and deliver to this factory without "fouling the main" or atleast crossing it from the Yard ?
They would have to pull out on the main to serve industries along the back wall there. It is not necessarily a problem to use the main for switching -in situations where there isn't a lot of traffic on the main.
You can e.g. do a yard like this:
This H0 scale plan segment is inspired by tracks in the small Texas town of Shiner in 1922, and cannot be switched without using the main.
But if traffic is low - e.g. if there is just one operator on the layout, or only a few operators, working different area of the layout, that is not necessarily a problem - then your local switching the town will just have to clear the main when a superior train is expected.
Also, having just a handful of tracks like this is more than enough to do meets, serve local industries, have passing trains drop of blocks of cars to be handled by another train (or even another railroad), and quite a few other things.
If, on the other hand, you will have six or seven people handling three trains and a switcher at the same time, with one train needing to pass the yard, one train arriving in the yard and one train departing from the yard at the same time as the last person is sorting cars for the next train, which will need to be ready for departure in one hour (15 minutes of real time on a 1:4 clock), then it becomes important to be able to continue sorting cars into blocks while trains passes on the main and arrives or departs.
If your yard and mainline is busy enough, it might even make sense to have a small "belt line" or industry spur leading from the end of the yard over or under the main into the manufacturing plant.
So it all depends on how you plan to _use_ the yard, and how much traffic you are planning.
Smile, Stein
Paulus Jas hi Jerry you have to foul the main, the cross-over i added from the yard-lead to the main will help a lot speeding up things.
Not only that - there are also several other good idea for making efficient switching yards shown on Paul's track plan.
Paul pointed out the crossover that allows access from the switching lead to the main.
The other crossover up there at far top left makes it possible to have train arriving from or departing towards the left on the main without stopping classification, since that crossover allows trains from the main to come into or out of the A/D tracks without crossing over the switching lead.
One of the class tracks is double ended - so it can also function as a third A/D track or a runaround when necessary.
Only two changes I would have made are:
1) Longer lead on the left - as Paul pointed out. Allows switching longer cuts of cars without fouling the main.
2) Making a "mini lead" at the far right end of the yard - long enough to hold an engine consist plus maybe a caboose/shoving platform (if cabooses or shoving platforms are used on this layout), without fouling the main. Would allow engines consists to cut off and run around without interfering with the main.
You guys are allright ,thanks lots a help..Jerry
So the turnouts in the curves are they curved turnouts or are they straight? I did take your advice and moved my turnouts into the yard on both ends down to allow more room for possible train building. But I didnt put crossovers from the #1 main line to the #2 main line. I didnt because I plan on using the #1 for any passing freight and that I could tie up the #2 main with any other trains.
Right now I have 18 turnouts in my yard and the pic you posted has 12. If I keep my yard I would have to order only 4 more turnouts and 2 of those are the curved turnouts so I wouldnt be out much $$ if I kept mine, but I may try to put your in AnyRail and see what happens.
AnyRail works great for me. I was hesitant to pay for it, but in the end I am glad I did that way I know what should work with my layout and bench work.
BDP So the turnouts in the curves are they curved turnouts or are they straight? I did take your advice and moved my turnouts into the yard on both ends down to allow more room for possible train building. But I didnt put crossovers from the #1 main line to the #2 main line. I didnt because I plan on using the #1 for any passing freight and that I could tie up the #2 main with any other trains. Right now I have 18 turnouts in my yard and the pic you posted has 12. If I keep my yard I would have to order only 4 more turnouts and 2 of those are the curved turnouts so I wouldnt be out much $$ if I kept mine, but I may try to put your in AnyRail and see what happens.
Brad --
It is your layout. If you so desire, you obviously can rush out and buy even more switches and proceed to lay track, without spend any more time and effort on understanding yard design.
Me, I would recommend perhaps spending a little more time and effort on actually reading and trying to understand/apply the advice you are given.
Paul's drawing says, fairly clearly, "all switches are #6s". He later specified Atlas #6. That, perhaps surprisingly , apparently was supposed to mean that all turnouts are straight, Atlas #6 turnouts. Not "some turnouts in this plan are curved".
Is the thing you are not understanding how you can use straight turnouts to make a pinwheel ladder?
Like this:
The purpose of the crossovers from the main to the yard in Paul's suggestion has been explained to you. You seemingly still have not quite understood the significance of what you have been told.
You keep talking about a #1 main and #2 main. But every sketch you have posted seemingly shows something else - one track (presumably a main) running along the outer edge of the layout segment below, with a *siding* - not a second main - coming off that track at far left and far right:
Do you have a not drawn #1 main on the outside of the outermost one shown in every sketch you have posted, or is your "#2 main" the double ended siding branching off from the outermost track in the sketch above ?
Do yourself a favour: Plan it out! The worst thing anyone can do is approach a potential project with a gleam in their eye and nothing more. Asf yourself what is it you are trying to accomplish, what features you wold like, and then start drawing it out. Pencils and paper are a lot cheaper than man-hours and wasted materials.
EF-3 Yellowjacket
Thanks for the kind words.. Much appreciated.
I am doing myself a favor and planning it out on paper and in AnyRail. I have my version that I posted and I am implementing the one Paul posted. I will probably go with the one Paul has posted and just add a couple more of storage track.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Springfield PA
I do think that the OP is doing his homework in one regard, and that is using track software to plan his layout. But, like many of us, BDP may be struggling with terminology and the very nature of yard planning. For example, in my eariler diagram, I referred to one track as my switching lead when, in fact, it is probably an arrival/departure track, although in the past I have also been told that it is not even a true A/D track.
If, like me, one has never worked in a classification or staging yard, it is difficult to understand the logistics of separate tracks, and connecting tracks, for operational purposes.
Try as I may, the purpose of a drill track, switching lead, approach and departure track, and the interaction of these tracks with the staging and classification tracks is hard to grasp and remember.
This link that Paul posted
is very helpful, and so is the Kalmbach book on freight yards, but reading about it and putting it into actual operation on a layout are two very different things.
Thanks, I dont think I could say it any better. I have never worked or even known anyone to work in a switching yard and my railroad terminology is not very good, so trying to implement some of the things that are said just goes over my head.
As far as the yard goes, I did get the diagram that Paul posted to work with 1 minor tweak and it looks good and I am going to implement it into my layout.
I have about 60% of my bench work completed, so I need to finish that. Then I need to paint it to help hold out the moisture to keep warping to a very minimum and then I will be laying out my track to make sure what I have in my AnyRail program will work in the Layout.
Thanks for all the info and sorry if I frustrated some along the way but sometimes things dont come as easy to one as they do for another.