Antag2002 I do like this even said so before but with the furnace being 12 inches from the wall and having around 6 inches to get past the water heater i could put staging under the stairs.
I do like this even said so before but with the furnace being 12 inches from the wall and having around 6 inches to get past the water heater i could put staging under the stairs.
I don´t know how tall you are, but putting the staging under the stairs and having to move around a furnace and water heater to access your staging area in a limited clearance zone does not look to be a good choice to me.
Paulus Jas hi gentlemen in the first week of December i made a drawing for that space. We seem to back to the very beginning. This might be a starter for a debate. The run-around for miss H. Transfer cuts coming in from staging. A classification yard to split those cars up for 3 different industrial area's.(local, dock and industry). Even place for an engine terminal. Paul
hi gentlemen
in the first week of December i made a drawing for that space. We seem to back to the very beginning.
This might be a starter for a debate.
The run-around for miss H.
Transfer cuts coming in from staging. A classification yard to split those cars up for 3 different industrial area's.(local, dock and industry).
Even place for an engine terminal.
Paul
I personally think this thread, along with the other thread about yard design, is great!
I've got Armstrong's and Sperandeos' (sp?) books and have spending quite a bit of time reading them. Especially Armstrong's book Designing for Realistic Operation. The information passed along by the members here, by trying to help someone struggle through the design process, is a great addition to all of the the book reading I've been doing. It has really helped me to put together a much better understanding of yard operations.
Either that, or everything I've been reading is just finally starting to sink in and make sense!
Yes Paul - a good starting point. This is much easier to work from.
My Build Thread: https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/185298.aspx
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Antag2002 ok everyone here it is I do like the idea of stagging under the stairs to make it worth while it will need to be slightly lower then the rest of the layout.
ok everyone here it is
I do like the idea of stagging under the stairs to make it worth while it will need to be slightly lower then the rest of the layout.
OK - we are getting closer. Can you add in your proposed benchwork outline and proposed layout?
As an example - here is one of my earliest plans for my own layout I posted here:
That was last summer. I did not finalize my trackwork and layout until very recently.
Please see my new thread...lol
Michael
Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT
Michael6792 Paulus Jas: BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns. It's not perfect & I realize that, but it's a place to start which is more than I had before. There will also need to be some modifications to fit my space but the first thing I need to do is make a detailed drawing of my space available. See, I'm learning...lol
Paulus Jas: BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.
BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.
It's not perfect & I realize that, but it's a place to start which is more than I had before. There will also need to be some modifications to fit my space but the first thing I need to do is make a detailed drawing of my space available. See, I'm learning...lol
Gentlemen -- please see my previous post on the subject (and yes, we are kind of hijacking the thread, so I'll be brief).
This was not a detailed, well thought out design. It represents an hour or two of work, designed to overcome someone's objections that they couldn't do some things in the space they had.
It never was intended as more than "food for thought." I agree though, that if we wanted to start a different thread, we could probably tweak it into something usable.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Michael,
Please feel free to plagiarize liberally.
Just understand that the amount of thought that went into this was to demonstrate to the feasibility of including the requested layout elements (he had some pictures and a rough outline of his available area). Not a lot of thought was given to issues such as access (although he said a duckunder / cockpit was fine) and operations, other than including the open pit mine and "a couple of industries" as he had requested.
In particular, there are access problems with the hidden track against the left-hand wall. Unless you were to build this in mirror image with that part against an aisle, you would be out of luck if you had a derailment in that tunnel, never mind trying to put scenery in the area.
So the short answer is, the design isn't ready for prime-time, but if it inspires you to create something, that's what it was intended to do, and use it with my blessing.
Michael6792 Paulus Jas: hi, the fact is you had pretty accurate drawings of your basement, you removed them from your thread. The last drawing is crap indeed, i have been looking back in vain to find the originals. The list of requirements is clear, though a discussion about the radius is a must. The length of the longest piece of equipment you want to run is important. From previous information IMAO a 30" radius , give or take a few inches, and the use of #6 switches are possible. Since we are grown up man, i do not prefer to talk with a guy with no name. Paul BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns. It's not perfect & I realize that, but it's a place to start which is more than I had before. There will also need to be some modifications to fit my space but the first thing I need to do is make a detailed drawing of my space available. See, I'm learning...lol
Paulus Jas: hi, the fact is you had pretty accurate drawings of your basement, you removed them from your thread. The last drawing is crap indeed, i have been looking back in vain to find the originals. The list of requirements is clear, though a discussion about the radius is a must. The length of the longest piece of equipment you want to run is important. From previous information IMAO a 30" radius , give or take a few inches, and the use of #6 switches are possible. Since we are grown up man, i do not prefer to talk with a guy with no name. Paul BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.
hi,
the fact is you had pretty accurate drawings of your basement, you removed them from your thread. The last drawing is crap indeed, i have been looking back in vain to find the originals.
The list of requirements is clear, though a discussion about the radius is a must. The length of the longest piece of equipment you want to run is important. From previous information IMAO a 30" radius , give or take a few inches, and the use of #6 switches are possible.
Since we are grown up man, i do not prefer to talk with a guy with no name.
In fairness to CTValleyRR who published the drawing that he did on AnyRail, he did indicate that, "Here's an example of something I threw together".
Rich
Alton Junction
Paulus Jas hi, the fact is you had pretty accurate drawings of your basement, you removed them from your thread. The last drawing is crap indeed, i have been looking back in vain to find the originals. The list of requirements is clear, though a discussion about the radius is a must. The length of the longest piece of equipment you want to run is important. From previous information IMAO a 30" radius , give or take a few inches, and the use of #6 switches are possible. Since we are grown up man, i do not prefer to talk with a guy with no name. Paul BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.
CTValleyRR Having read this entire thread and looked at some of the advice offered the OP, as well as his responses to suggestions and criticism, I'm probably a real idiot for signing on to a thread started by someone who seems to be proud to ba called Antagonist. However, Antagonist, I have to say that I still have no idea what you're trying to do with your layout and what your real limitations and ideas are. You also seem to be in a huge hurry. Not only are you in too much of a hurry to type clearly, but you also don't seem to want to take the time to think through your answers. Since you seem to have Anyrail, can you take about 2 days and post a very, very clear drawing, precisely to scale, with every obstacle, window, door and so forth clearly drawn out? Take the time to go down there with a tape measure and put everything in its proper place, like you seem to have done with the washer and the sink. Are the walls in the lower right really tapered, and do they really extend beyond the intersection? If you've got an area, like the furnace and the water heater area where you really can't build layout, then it's ok to block it off, but you COULD extend staging or something under the stairs, couldn't you? If you've already built benchwork (I hope not, with your design in such a state of flux), put that in, too. Put the exterior walls in, too. Here's an example of something I threw together (using Anyrail) based on what one of our members said he was looking for. If you can put something that detailed together, people can give you some really constructive advice, but really, right now, no one can do much of anything with the barrage of half-developed, poorly expressed ideas that are being thrown out right now.
Having read this entire thread and looked at some of the advice offered the OP, as well as his responses to suggestions and criticism, I'm probably a real idiot for signing on to a thread started by someone who seems to be proud to ba called Antagonist.
However, Antagonist, I have to say that I still have no idea what you're trying to do with your layout and what your real limitations and ideas are. You also seem to be in a huge hurry. Not only are you in too much of a hurry to type clearly, but you also don't seem to want to take the time to think through your answers.
Since you seem to have Anyrail, can you take about 2 days and post a very, very clear drawing, precisely to scale, with every obstacle, window, door and so forth clearly drawn out? Take the time to go down there with a tape measure and put everything in its proper place, like you seem to have done with the washer and the sink. Are the walls in the lower right really tapered, and do they really extend beyond the intersection? If you've got an area, like the furnace and the water heater area where you really can't build layout, then it's ok to block it off, but you COULD extend staging or something under the stairs, couldn't you? If you've already built benchwork (I hope not, with your design in such a state of flux), put that in, too. Put the exterior walls in, too.
Here's an example of something I threw together (using Anyrail) based on what one of our members said he was looking for.
If you can put something that detailed together, people can give you some really constructive advice, but really, right now, no one can do much of anything with the barrage of half-developed, poorly expressed ideas that are being thrown out right now.
i will take the time on monday and do just that make a detailed drawing of my basement.I have on on graph paper but putting it on the computer i have a hard time with.Anywhotake care
Not trying to steal anyone's thread, but I like what you have here & it's close to the size room I have available. Would you mind if I based my layout off of it?
i guess that would help.
Here is my 2 cents.
While you are asking about parts of your layout, to get good advice, people need the big picture. When I came here looking for advice, I learned that quickly and put together a plan showing my whole room with furnace, doors, windows, walls - like you have, but also included the benchwork outline and track layout.
Don't worry if you have not finalized track layout or benchwork yet, but do a preliminary plan anyway. With that AND a good description of what you want to do as far as operating etc - there are people like Paul here that can give you invaluable advice and ideas.
My first layout plan looks little like my final plan - although the basic elements were there. It went through a lot of tweaking and back and forth - thanks to Paul, Stein and others.
lol handing me over to paul??
lol rich you had some great suggestions before. why you giving up?lol
Antag2002 ok guys Here is my basment area in question.i was planning on moving the washer and sink but this is impossible as the drain for the sink is here and i dont feel like busting out the floor to move it.so instead i busted out the wall that was running between the furnace area and the rest of the basment so i could use the dead space as an isle for my layout.im planning on putting the yard along the 36" aisle that will run between the layout and the stairs.So case in point Paul i made my plan to big.Help? lol i am working on a new design that will fit if any one has some ideas that are intelligent feel free other wize Please save me the annoyance of admins deleting my responses
ok guys Here is my basment area in question.i was planning on moving the washer and sink but this is impossible as the drain for the sink is here and i dont feel like busting out the floor to move it.so instead i busted out the wall that was running between the furnace area and the rest of the basment so i could use the dead space as an isle for my layout.im planning on putting the yard along the 36" aisle that will run between the layout and the stairs.So case in point Paul i made my plan to big.Help? lol i am working on a new design that will fit if any one has some ideas that are intelligent feel free other wize Please save me the annoyance of admins deleting my responses
I searched the Smilies catalog for a white flag, but I cannot find one. I surrender anyhow.
Paul, he is all yours.
ok i understand i have to head out for a bit when i get back i will tak ethe time to explain everything and post a diagram of what is going on
Antag2002 The switching lead is a little shorter than the A/D tracks so classifying longer trains could be a problem. ok i do understand what you are saying here but i made the yard lead long enough for the longest train i plan on running. The main line will be blocked as trains are routed from the A/D tracks to the switching lead track any suggestions on how to fix that?? You could create a switcher pocket by extending the yard ladder. Are you suggesting a place to park the the yard goat so its out of the way? You could create an escape track to the main line below the classification tracks by installing a right hand turnout before the classification track ladder what would this be used for?
The switching lead is a little shorter than the A/D tracks so classifying longer trains could be a problem.
ok i do understand what you are saying here but i made the yard lead long enough for the longest train i plan on running.
The main line will be blocked as trains are routed from the A/D tracks to the switching lead track
any suggestions on how to fix that??
You could create a switcher pocket by extending the yard ladder.
Are you suggesting a place to park the the yard goat so its out of the way?
You could create an escape track to the main line below the classification tracks by installing a right hand turnout before the classification track ladder
what would this be used for?
antag,
I agree with Paul that a more complete layout diagram is essential, and the reason is simple. Aside from any understanding of how you want to use the yard, a more complete layout diagram will give us an idea of your space availability and your space limitations. None of this is apparent in the partial track plan that you have shown.
In the track plan shown, the entire space is 21' x 2', and the yard itself is 17' x 2'. If you don't count the last three feet of the switching lead at the left, then the usable yard space is only 14' x 2'. Within that 2 foot vertical space, you have placed 11 different horizontal tracks. That is pretty tight. So, the question remains, what does the rest of your track plan look like, and how much space is available for modifications to the yard plan.
The biggest problem with the current yard plan is the reverse Z shape. Once a train enters the yard from the left on one of the arrival-departure tracks, the switcher has to come off of the mainline from the left behind the train to begin the switching process and then re-enter the mainline to eventually reach the switching lead track. If the switcher enters from the right, once it removes the cars from the arrival-departure track, it needs to back onto the mainline, then push the cars to the switching lead track, then pull the cars onto one of the classification tracks, trapping the switcher. So, that problem needs to be solved.
One solution to that problem would be to move the classification tracks to the left side of the yard.
Another solution, if space permits, would be to place a switching lead track up along the left side of the layout before the arrival-departure track.
The reason that I mentioned an escape track from the switching lead to the mainline is to permit mainline access from a second point for a completed train when the first point is blocked by a switcher assembling or disassembling another train at the arrival-departure tracks.
The switcher pocket suggestion was made since you need flexibility in manuevering the switcher engine around the ladder or simply to park it.
One other point. You mentioned that the switching lead track is as long as your longest train. Since the switching lead appears to be shorter than the arrival-departure track, perhaps you can shorten the arrival-departure track somewhat to conserve space.
hi Antag,
if I like to see a lot of good yard designs i read Andy Sperandeo's book or John Armstrong's. Helping to get one of those designs in your space is what i like.
It starts, besides with a drawing of your room and the place of the yard in it, with setting standards. Like train length, length of the cars and engines, radii and switch-numbers.
Second, what do you want to achieve with that yard, eg splitting up a freight train into 4 blocks for different industrial area's. Is it an engine terminal as well?
A lot is wrong on your design: the placement of the drill the very most. Numerous unnecessary S-curves everywhere and train-lengths that are not clear at all.
first: why does it matter where it goes?Second:i asked for suggestions on the yard alone regardles of the rest of the layout.thanks paul
You could start by showing the place of your yard in your room, the dimensions are different from those you gave earlier.
paul
hmmm ... ill try it and see what it would look like
My 2 cents:
The runaround is too short - I have found a longer runaround works better. Of course you can use your A/D tracks if you need to.
If you flipped the stub sidings with the runaround you would save space and the yard would be more efficient and more prototypical.
Listen Alco.If you think you are the be all end all of yard design wheres your book on how to do it?