wp&p
thanks for the reply. building is on halt as my truck had to go to the dealership for repairs. so no way to get the wood home to build the peninsula. but anyways i like the trackplan you have come up with it is just like what we talked about and if you would like you can go ahead and design the rest if you would like. from what you have designed i will make some changes to that to fit more of how i like.
#1 i see what you are saying high speed running i dont think it is a good idea to go to fast thru a yard never know what might have just popped out on the line that wasnt supposed to be there. but every other curve on the layout can be for that. i will explain why i have the straight in that curve later.
#2 the passing sidings i like the length might make it a couple feet longer say 16ft. say go from the center of that curve above the coal mine and go 8 ft in each direction and that will be cool.
#3 the empties tracks why not just make them 7ft and the 2 tracks for both empties and loaded is a great idea. yes the coal mine will be directly on the plywood and the mainline will be up above say 2 to 2 1/2 inches. need clearance just in case a double stack needs to make an emergency run thru doubt it will happen but just in case. also to give me just that much more room to stick my hand under and clean the tracks.
#4 where the track is already layed i looked at it i think if you could really see it close up i think i have enough room to get in what you have on the plan for it. yes the cut off want rejoin the main until sometime around the the bend but maybe further down as you have on the plan i was thinking maybe somewhere on the opposite side of the room. the way i have my mains set up coming out of the yard if the mine is getting worked it can use the outside main and the north or southbound train that is coming can just jump on the middle lead to bypass the working coal train and then jump back out the the main either at that crossover or the one on the other end of the yard. yes i think that will add more to the operations of the layout and it will really test out my track laying skills. to see if it will get the passing grade from visitors on derailments.
#5 for the backdrop i will use a little thinner support because of where i have track already layed the train might touch the backdrop with a locomotive/rollingstock with extra overhang or is this the thinnest. i will use this idea to do the backdrop. also i will make sure to cut the holes in the backdrop in the right place.
#6 i think i will cut the curve into the benchwork as you said to allow for the extra room never came to mind about that and actually its not that bad of an idea. will get done!
#7 i like the placement of the turntable . now where i said earlier i would explain. that tangent you said i had in the curvve coming around the roundhouse i will have a cut off directly from the main to the turntable, servicing tracks, and allso outbound i will have a cut off for the 5 track union station four for my 4 passengers and one a pass thru for passenger. then connecting back to the main somewhere on the peninsula.
#8 yes please keep helping me design a layout that will suit me for club and personnal use. you might be mad but im using all #4 switches from atlas. track is code 80. all of my deisels have ran thru the these swicthes without problems. plus the first action my yard had was in a train show and i can say it did pretty good to me except for 2 bad switches that were replaced at the show and back up and running it was. all comments welcome. as trackplanning is not my thing but track laying/wirng.
I wish I had gotten around to this a little sooner, now that I see you're laying tracks around the bends! I wanted to take a crack at the layout design elements that were discussed back in June (at Tower A), especially the loads-in/empties-out feature that Tony and I were talking about. I'm an architect, so I just use my CAD software to draw this up; this is a first pass but just expresses the ideas.
The mainline curves are maximized to about 30" inner radius, good for high-speed mainline running. The triple track mains slim down to double track for operational challenge, and the triple track around the coal mine is treated as if it is a center-siding (i.e. east and west-bound mains on either side of a shared passing siding). This passing siding is 14 feet long, which can hold a train of about 40 cars (using 50' boxcars). The loads-in/empties-out industries share tracks that are about 6.5 feet each, so a 13' long mine turn can be totally exchanged (two tracks of loads, two tracks of empties).
This version was planned with the mine tracks dropping down a bit, the mains rising up a bit. However, since I see you've already built level plywood tops, maybe a modification would be to leave the mine at 0.0" and let the main rise higher. As it is, the gradient on the main is less that 0.5%; it could rise to 2.0" and still be about a 1% grade; N-scale cars won't even free-roll down a 1% grade!
However, where you've already laid track it appears this would require relaying. The curve around the turntable is broader (yours comes to a straight tangent rather than sweeping in one broad curve all the way around), plus it is set in a bit to leave room for the cut-off (the outer main that passes by the power plant) to drop. If the mine and power plant are not dropped down, then the cut-off can just be level, but I'd still recommend not having the cut-off join to the triple mains until around the bend, as this leaves a bit of a switching lead so that the power plant can be worked without fouling the main.
For the backdrop, I've shown 2x2 supports with a thin facing, perhaps 1/8" masonite, on each side; the 2x2's can extend down below and be rigidly mounted to the benchwork. I'm showing 2x2's at 24" centers, but they could be anywhere and would likely end up wherever a cross joist happens to appear below. But with tracks penetrating the backdrop, you need to be sure to plan the locations carefully.
I show a curved benchwork edge near the coal mine in order to open up the dead-end like a cul-de-sac, to create room for operators to get around each other. To create this edge, just set the joists back a bit and let the plywood overhang; you can add wood blocking to support a flexible fascia, such as masonite or some other material. The curve also allows the tracks leading into the coal mine to have an 18" minimum radius, with enough room between the mine tracks and the mainlines to fit in a small creek. This creek would put the broad curving mains on a tall embankment, helping to convey that this is the more mountainous region of the layout.
For the coal mine, I'm suggesting that the hidden tracks be concealed under a sort of tricky view block, using a maze of coal conveyors and taller buildings to distract you from the fact that tracks are no longer visible. The size and shape of buildings I'm showing here mean little, just trying to convey the idea. Both the power plant and the coal mine should be enormous facilities, with much of the power plant conveyed in 2D on the backdrop, and much of the coal mine implied to be where the aisleway is. Some tall mounds of coal can be between the spurs and the creek.
The Engine Service area includes a turntable and roundhouse, since I know you'd want those, but in the modern era such facilities would likely be used for non-routine maintenance, such as the car shops you suggested. Some of the space between the broad mainline curves and the turntable leads can be used for a small yard, for bad-order cars waiting to go into the shop.
If this looks good to you, I can keep on developing it. Like I said, it can work with the power plant and mine at elev.=0.0", and the mines rising higher on a slightly steeper grade. I should point out that I have planned this using No. 10 switches for the mainline and No. 7 switches elsewhere, after having seen how gorgeous Atlas's Code 55 switches are. You haven't been using such shallow-angle frogs on the switches you've already laid, so you may not want to here either, but for slick mainline speed-running, the shallower the better! Even if you're not using code 55 flex track (I think you're using code 80, right?), it still might be worth it to figure out how to connect up the No. 10 switches, just to achieve that super-sexy and silky-smooth mainline. But even if you don't, it's always possible to fit a wider-angle switch in, like a No. 6 or No. 7; however, if you plan around No. 6 then you couldn't substitute the No. 10 later on.
well as promised i got to do more work in the trainroom as all the wife wanted to do was go to the mall and buy a few outfits for my niece that is scheduled to be born on the 25th of this month by c section. i woke up early and got started. i added a 2 1/2' x 8' section on each end of the layout. layed the cork and track on both pieces. also i have a 3 track lead coming out of the yard as the layout is a 2 track main. i have 2 leads coimg out of the yard the middle track on both ends and it can accomodate a train length of 25 - 50'6" box cars which i think is long enough for me to switch cars in and out of the yard without fouling up the mains on both ends. so that being said i can switch cars from both ends and the 2 mains are clear and free. its not much but its more done on the layout and me that much closer to having trains run completly around the layout. hope you like.
Loco I like them mats. They almost made it into the upstairs in my train room, but by ordering the an extra 500sq feet of the laminate flooring I got a bit of discount so the wife said, "Do the wood" If it was a basement, you can't go wrong with the mats! Sweet wheels.....here is one of my rides:
I like them mats. They almost made it into the upstairs in my train room, but by ordering the an extra 500sq feet of the laminate flooring I got a bit of discount so the wife said, "Do the wood" If it was a basement, you can't go wrong with the mats!
Sweet wheels.....here is one of my rides:
i dont think i made a bad choice either on the mats. they are sofe durable and looks darn good if you ask me. also nice bike you have there. i want one but im scared i will do something bad to myself so i opted away from them.
here we go well i have done a little work in the room and its coming along pretty good. i placed all of my rolling stock in the yard and i can say i didnt have as many pieces of rollingstock as i thought i had. total count is 828 not including the 62 locomotives i have. also i have room for maybe 200/300 more pieces of rolling stock and the yard will be completly full. i will have another yard on the layout alot smaller than this one i have already. i also with the help of 2 of my friends we moved the yard up against the wall it is intended for i screwed it to the walls and the studs and it seems pretty sturdy and like it want move. also bought lumber for the last piece that goes on that back wall for the yard. will probably do the trackwork for the crossover switches at the opposite end of the yard tomorrow or tuesday maybe even today. depending if the wifey want make me do something on the honey-do list. i have pictures of the yard with all the rollingstock on it from front to back and you can see how much room i have for rollingstock left as you get to the end of the yard. also a picture of the 1st 2 locomotives to ride the rails on my new layout via "nce powercab". and pictures of the wood i purchased for the extension to the yard and pictures of it being built. hope you like the pictures.
well i have finished laying the floor mats down and i would say the room looks pretty good so far. tomorrow i will do/finish nailing in the baseboards and i think that is all i will as far as construction of the basement. then it will be on to the building of my dream layout. the pictures i have of the flooring aren't that good but i will take more when i clean the room up from all of the tools that are laying around. thre reason for using the rubber mats are: it's cheaper, can replace one or two squares instead of the whole baesment if water leaks in the basement and it was carpeted but we are praying that that doesn't happen. it cost me 400 to do the floor with the mats and would have cost me close to 1500 if it was carpeted. here are the pictures that didnt come out to good but will take more with a clean floor that way you can really see what it looks like. the first is as you are coming down the stairs.
Jimmydieselfan Reggie, trainroom is looking good. What are you going to do to the ceiling? For as much $ as you have already dropped you should put in a suspended ceiling. It would really make the room a lot more finished looking. If you do this now is the time. Keep up the great work and keep us updated.
Reggie, trainroom is looking good. What are you going to do to the ceiling? For as much $ as you have already dropped you should put in a suspended ceiling. It would really make the room a lot more finished looking. If you do this now is the time. Keep up the great work and keep us updated.
i really havent thought to much about it except penning up black bed sheets over all the open area. it will be penned to the walls and studs. then wrapped around the steal beams and that way over the whole ceiling. a dropped ceiling is another $3000. i figure thats $3000 more i can spend on trains. also once you are in the room your attention will be on the trains and all the stuff that will be hung on the walls anyways.
N Scale Diesels......I like 'em
Loco Must be nice to have at least some track down!!! One question, in the fourth photo, there is a huge double track bridge, where did you get that?!?! I have to span my stairs.
Must be nice to have at least some track down!!!
One question, in the fourth photo, there is a huge double track bridge, where did you get that?!?! I have to span my stairs.
yes its nice but not where i want to be. i can do a little switching from the yard now but the leads are only so long and that means i can only switch a cut of cars maybe 10 long depending on the car. this yard that i have built is whats keeping me motivated and ready to build this layout once eveything is in place that is baseboards, mats for the flooring. now to answer your question those are the kato double track truss bridges that i mentioned in one of my earlier post. you can get them anywhere. i got them in canada for about $8.50 when i was up there last summer. but any major hobbyshop inthe usa should have them. the price might be a little higher but they are really some nice bridges.
well finally got the electricians to the house and got it wired for about $114 and i have the feeling of knowing that it is wired up correctly and not have to worry about fires starting unexpectedly. i have a few pictures of the room with the lights on in the room and a little of the the supplies and products i bought to get this show on the road. hope you enjoy.
well here is a start the proposed benchwork and if you can see it the trackplan. i see things i want to do different to the benchwork everytime i look at this one. but this is the one that im leaning with. the only thing that i don't like about this is that i have to build in a liftout because it is not tall enough to duckunder. but it is high enough that is if sit in one of those office chairs let it down all the way and you can roll under it with a slight lean forward for me being i'm only 5'11" anybody taller might have to lean a little more. this idea here is what's making me not want to build in a liftout. that way i want have make a liftout for it. also cutting the chances of derailments with trains coming across it. you can see where i have the liftout by the tear in the paper along the long skinny part at the bottom of the benchwork. the long piece coming off the the end is where the entance to the basement coming down the stairs. so you will get a glimpse of it as you come down the stairs. the dark bold line is the divider for the center penisula, and the large squares are foot. so i think it comes out to be 34' x13 1/2' if you cant see the lines of the track plan let me know and i will try to take more pictures and get better shots. enough talking from me. here's the pictures.
well didnt finish the whole basement this weekend but got finished with the trainroom painting and weightroom painting. i went with a beige color for the weightroom and the bottom half of the trainroom. and went with a sky blue color for the top half of the trainroom. hope you enjoy the pictures.
da_kraut Hi Reggie, just wanted to compliment you on your progress. This is a great thread and is inspirational to all of us. It has inspired me to get back to building the fourth level and working on the scenery. Thanks Frank
Hi Reggie,
just wanted to compliment you on your progress. This is a great thread and is inspirational to all of us. It has inspired me to get back to building the fourth level and working on the scenery.
Thanks
Frank
thanks for the compliments and i try to do what i can. if i am an inspiration to any thats great. i just try to do my best at everything and let others be the judge.
WP&P Go ahead and paint the whole wall whatever sky blue color you pick out - it will be more immersive, place you in the scene, to not be reminded that the sky ends by seeing its top edge. On my own layout, I've got lighting valances which cap my sky; they form a proscenium of sorts, a dark top with the light behind making the sky glow. This works because your eye is drawn to the brighter sky. So, if you don't paint blue all the way up, I'd suggest putting something dark or even black to hide the top. Worst thing you could do would be to paint blue up a few feet, then white above that, because the blue and white will both reflect about the same amount of light, and you'll always be aware of that line that divides dreamworld sky from realworld basement. I'm eager to see another track plan, since we had that brainstorming session down at Tower A a while back - yours could be a very exciting layout! I know, you're having tons-of-fun paying electricians and sanding joint compound and all... You're probably done with the sanding, right? Too bad, I coulda told you how I did it at my sister's place (I finished her basement a few years ago). To avoid the dust of sanding, instead I used a wet sponge. It didn't get quite as perfectly flat as it might have with sanding, but it left no mess at all!
Go ahead and paint the whole wall whatever sky blue color you pick out - it will be more immersive, place you in the scene, to not be reminded that the sky ends by seeing its top edge. On my own layout, I've got lighting valances which cap my sky; they form a proscenium of sorts, a dark top with the light behind making the sky glow. This works because your eye is drawn to the brighter sky. So, if you don't paint blue all the way up, I'd suggest putting something dark or even black to hide the top. Worst thing you could do would be to paint blue up a few feet, then white above that, because the blue and white will both reflect about the same amount of light, and you'll always be aware of that line that divides dreamworld sky from realworld basement.
I'm eager to see another track plan, since we had that brainstorming session down at Tower A a while back - yours could be a very exciting layout! I know, you're having tons-of-fun paying electricians and sanding joint compound and all... You're probably done with the sanding, right? Too bad, I coulda told you how I did it at my sister's place (I finished her basement a few years ago). To avoid the dust of sanding, instead I used a wet sponge. It didn't get quite as perfectly flat as it might have with sanding, but it left no mess at all!
yeah thats what i think im going to do is paint the whole top half of the wall skyblue. i can sort of visaulize what you are saying that it would make you feel as if you are part of the layout.
traindaddy1 Reggie: It has been awhile since I signed into this forum. Glad to see that you are still with this "train" stuff. Just want to wish you and your family continued success.
Reggie:
It has been awhile since I signed into this forum. Glad to see that you are still with this "train" stuff. Just want to wish you and your family continued success.
thanks for the wishes and the same to you and your family. now you know i cant leave the trains alone. even the smallest of trips/ideas i try to incorporate trains in there somehow. once its in you (train bug that is) its in you for good and it will slowly begin to get in the people you involve yourself with.
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
before i paint my trainroom wall i have a question. im going to paint my backdrop for the layout on the wall. is there a recommended height to paint a skyblue strip around the maybe 2ft tall or should i go ahead and paint the hole top half of the wall above the layout skyblue. any suggestions welcome.
well i finished priming all the walls today and will start painting tomorrow. all is in order to have all the painting of the walls done by the weekend. once done with that will cut and trim all base board pieces to fit then prime and paint them. im getting close to the finish line. i can smell victory. will call in elcetrician next week to get wiring inspected and hooked up properly.
i finished doing the fine sanding and now its time to paint. will start possibly tomorrow. hopefully to be done painting the basement by the end of the weekend. i teased myself the other day and layed 3 pieces track to bring the one curve to almost complete. also my leads are long enough coming out of the yard that i can do a little switching to keep me motivated to get the basement finished. knowing it want be until at least a few more weeks before i can start laying track. but here are few pictures of the track i layed
hope you like and enjoy
rrebellThanks, you see here in the states ever since at least the 70's and before probably you need to limit each outlet box to one circuit, 220 is a separte outlet box and you do any spliting at the main or sub box. Have only worked in the States but I have seen some weird stuff posted over the years.
Thanks, you see here in the states ever since at least the 70's and before probably you need to limit each outlet box to one circuit, 220 is a separte outlet box and you do any spliting at the main or sub box. Have only worked in the States but I have seen some weird stuff posted over the years.
Hi,
yes it is so very true how things change from country to country and throughout time. Now if you have a sink you need a receptacle within 90 cm of it, but within a meter of the sink the receptacle has to be GFI and have a 20 amp rating. The incident of the fire happened before this change came into effect.
One item that I find truly fascinating and weird is the power for electric locomotives in real life. Some run on some strange frequencies and the voltages are all over the map. This actually makes me glad that we have the NMRA standards that most manufacturers adhere to in the model world.
Take care
rrebellNow how is that possible, even a miswired GFI should not have a problem. Only way I could see something of this nature happening is if the original wiring was done wrong and there was a problem with the ground. Sounds more like the guy had alluminum wiring in which case that is a fire waiting to happen even when done right.
Now how is that possible, even a miswired GFI should not have a problem. Only way I could see something of this nature happening is if the original wiring was done wrong and there was a problem with the ground. Sounds more like the guy had alluminum wiring in which case that is a fire waiting to happen even when done right.
I believe you are referring to one of my earlier posts. At the time all that was required were split receptacles. The home owner exchanged the split receptacle that was properly installed by the contractor for one of a different style. The home owner did not remove the tab which shorted out the two phases. Unfortunately the breaker fused shut under the inrush current and the main breaker held as well. This huge inrush of current caused the insulation from the wire to melt causing the fire.
Hope it helps
i have 3 walls left in the movie room to finish sanding and im done with that part of the basement. then on to painting
I kind of went the extra mile. I used all 20 AMP breakers, 12-2 wiring, 20 amp switches and outlet receptacles. My outlets are on two switched circuits to kill power when needed. Lights are on three switched circuits with dimmers. I have five dedicated 20 AMP circuits to the room alone. It is 14x30. I used recessed can lighting. Room is also wired for sound and sattelite.
well here are some pictures of the basement with the drywall in place and the plaster applied for the last coat. i have actually started sanding the walls but didnt get finished. i was working hard at sanding for like 2 and half hours straight. then looked up and seen how much i have to sand i said enough for the day i will continue tomorrow. i felt like i was halfway thru but in reallity i was only 20% done. why does your mind play tricks on you like that. anyways here are the pictures. now that i have went and bought a memory card i can take pictures and update regular on a day to day basis if any work is done. sorry for the gap in the picture taking as stated didnt have memory card to take pictures of progress up until now. i just forgot to get a card everytime i went to walmart. hope you enjoy and like the work i have done thus far.
this sanding of the wall is one real pain in the if you know what i mean. but i can see the craftsmanship in the work once you are done. almost finished sanding the last coat and its really turning out to look like a basement.
also i have 5 locomotives for sale. trying to get rid of them because i have kinda of narrowed my choice to the main roadname on my layout will be norfolk southenr and these five dont fit the scheme. if interested please private message or email me at thatboy37@hotmail.com.
da_kraut Hi thatboy37, I did not wish to quote the above statement for it would get really big. Due to the fact that I am not familiar with the US Electrical Codes and also do not know what kind of lights or how many lights you will install in your basement I can not comment on your electricians circuit designations. As far as putting an entertainment system on its own circuit, that is a very wise move. It eliminates surge voltages to a good degree. Mind you if you hooked up a welder to your house panel and cranked the welders output up then all the branch circuits could easily see a voltage surge. But in general it is a very wise move to put electronic devices on their own circuit. As for power supplies, I checked the NCE web site and found they had a 5 amp power supply called a PB105 and a 10 amp power supply called a PB110. Just to put your mind at ease let us talk about the 10 amp power supply. According to the PDF file from the manufacturer the PB110 requires a max total of 250 VA. VA is another term for Watts (for the most part without getting too technical) which is the energy consumed or required. This energy does not change, what changes are the current and voltage which when multiplied always come up to the same VA value. If you read the pdf file http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/pb110.pdf you will read that this power supply can require up to 12 amps at the low voltage value of 16 to 22 volts AC. This creates a total power draw of up to 250 VA. As mentioned above VA is the energy consumed which in this case is up to 250 VA. If the supply voltage from the receptacle is 120 volt then the current draw from the receptacle is only 250VA/120volt=2.083 amps. So if you had 4 power supplies made by NCE designated as PB110 you would draw 2.083amp*4=8.3amp which can be handled by a single 15 amp circuit. Since you are using the PB105 you can cut the power draw on your designated circuit in half, ie 4.15 amp. This gives you plenty of extra available power for other functions such as powering lights for your model houses on your layout. So to sum it up, it is a good idea to have a designated circuit for your model railroad but there should be no worries about having 4 PB105 power supplies on that circuit. As for breakers, each circuit requires its own breaker, otherwise it is not a circuit. Also the pony panel would be required if you do not have enough available space in your current panel. This is unfortunate but required to prevent issues down the road. Doubling up ciruits on breakers causes only trouble. I hope this helps. Frank
Hi thatboy37,
I did not wish to quote the above statement for it would get really big.
Due to the fact that I am not familiar with the US Electrical Codes and also do not know what kind of lights or how many lights you will install in your basement I can not comment on your electricians circuit designations. As far as putting an entertainment system on its own circuit, that is a very wise move. It eliminates surge voltages to a good degree. Mind you if you hooked up a welder to your house panel and cranked the welders output up then all the branch circuits could easily see a voltage surge. But in general it is a very wise move to put electronic devices on their own circuit.
As for power supplies, I checked the NCE web site and found they had a 5 amp power supply called a PB105 and a 10 amp power supply called a PB110. Just to put your mind at ease let us talk about the 10 amp power supply. According to the PDF file from the manufacturer the PB110 requires a max total of 250 VA. VA is another term for Watts (for the most part without getting too technical) which is the energy consumed or required. This energy does not change, what changes are the current and voltage which when multiplied always come up to the same VA value. If you read the pdf file http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/pb110.pdf you will read that this power supply can require up to 12 amps at the low voltage value of 16 to 22 volts AC. This creates a total power draw of up to 250 VA.
As mentioned above VA is the energy consumed which in this case is up to 250 VA. If the supply voltage from the receptacle is 120 volt then the current draw from the receptacle is only
250VA/120volt=2.083 amps.
So if you had 4 power supplies made by NCE designated as PB110 you would draw 2.083amp*4=8.3amp which can be handled by a single 15 amp circuit. Since you are using the PB105 you can cut the power draw on your designated circuit in half, ie 4.15 amp. This gives you plenty of extra available power for other functions such as powering lights for your model houses on your layout.
So to sum it up, it is a good idea to have a designated circuit for your model railroad but there should be no worries about having 4 PB105 power supplies on that circuit.
As for breakers, each circuit requires its own breaker, otherwise it is not a circuit. Also the pony panel would be required if you do not have enough available space in your current panel. This is unfortunate but required to prevent issues down the road. Doubling up ciruits on breakers causes only trouble.
I hope this helps.
thanks for the help and info you and everyone else has provided to and for me. im waiting on the electric companies to call me back. also put on the second coat of plaster today. i can honestly say it is starting to look like a basement. i saved alot of money just by doing it all myself. the cheapest quote i have gotten to do my basement before i deceide to do it myself was 14000 and i have almost remodeled my whole basement for less than 2000. now thats a huge savings right there and that much more for me to have and spend on my train room.