New Contest Proposal--Smallville

[marknewton]

Stein, I can't post them now as I'm about to go to work, but I do have some photos of a bare-bones IC coaling facility, that might shed some light on the subject.

Cheers,

Mark.

[dehusman]

The other big objection to using water from a hydrant is that it isn't treated in any way, and if my experience is typical, it's got enough rubbish in it to cause problems with foaming and priming. You might use a hydrant in an emergency, but to water regularly like that defies all sense.

Unless you are watering an engine in the 1990's when every single water tower has been torn down for 30 or 40 years.  Then it makes perfect sense.  Fire hydrants become the ONLY water source.  8-)

Dave H.

[tomikawaTT]

The other big objection to using water from a hydrant is that it isn't treated in any way, and if my experience is typical, it's got enough rubbish in it to cause problems with foaming and priming. You might use a hydrant in an emergency, but to water regularly like that defies all sense.

Unless you are watering an engine in the 1990's when every single water tower has been torn down for 30 or 40 years.  Then it makes perfect sense.  Fire hydrants become the ONLY water source.  8-)

Dave H.

NS fitted 611 with a standard fire department hose connection so they could take water from hydrants - frequently with the aid of a local fire department pumper.  Don't know for sure, but logic would suggest that there should be a basket filter at the discharge end of that filler pipe.  Boiler treatment chemicals could have been added from a sack, but that was neither shown nor mentioned.

The video I saw this on is titled Norfolk & Western #611, in case anyone wants to check me.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[ICRR1964]

Stein, as you stated, you did not find much info on the web I have done the same searches for years and founf almost nothing on the town. Check your PM and send me a personal email back, I have something for you to see, and back my claim that I have some information.

I'm not making any claim to know 100% of what I have as far as documents, pictures, and word of mouth is true here. If some of the posters feel it did not happen that way, wasn't there, and being impossible, thats fine. I have my info and opinion and they have their opinion's. No problem guys, I'll treat this like a poker game like I stated, fold.

[steinjr]

Stein, as you stated, you did not find much info on the web I have done the same searches for years and founf almost nothing on the town. Check your PM and send me a personal email back, I have something for you to see, and back my claim that I have some information.

 This seems unnecessarily melodramatic, but whatever - I have sent you an email through the forum with my email address in the body of my message.

 Couldn't send you an email direct (ie not via forum) as you requested, since you had not included your email address in the _body text_ of your email (the forum sw apparently strips off sender's email address from the header when it forwards emails to other forum users sent from the web page).

 Stein

 

[marknewton]

The other big objection to using water from a hydrant is that it isn't treated in any way, and if my experience is typical, it's got enough rubbish in it to cause problems with foaming and priming. You might use a hydrant in an emergency, but to water regularly like that defies all sense.

Unless you are watering an engine in the 1990's when every single water tower has been torn down for 30 or 40 years.  Then it makes perfect sense.  Fire hydrants become the ONLY water source.  8-)

Dave H.

LOL! You're not wrong, Dave, at least for the US!

I suppose we're lucky here, in that many of the water columns and tank stands have been retained in working order, both for use by heritage steam operators, and to fill the travelling water tank cars we still use in outlying areas. Also, many of the surviving installations are protected by conservation orders, and so have an assured future. There's even one directly across the road from where I live - which is a bugger, because I'm usually the one who has to check that the bloody thing's full!

Just like some US railroads, my railway made extensive use of what you'd probably know as auxilliary tenders or canteens, known here as "water gins". We have a couple still in service, and they get a lot of use when we do long-distance jobs.

But even so, there have been times when we've had to water from hydrants. Not my favourite job, by any means.

Apart from problems with water quality, I've had two trips where because of lengthy delays we've had dramas topping the tender up before departing Sydney Terminal station, which is the main station for the city. The first time the station master had a dummy spit and abused us because he didn't want 3500 gallons charged to his budget. I said "No worries, mate, I'll just drop the fire right here and now on your lovely new track, eh?", and he calmed down a bit.

The second time was after the fire protection section there had been upgraded with a booster pump. When we opened the hydrant, the booster pump spooled up, alarms were set off, and the entire bloody City of Sydney Fire Brigade came roaring out to fight the supposed blaze. Of course, on the engine we were getting the fire prepared before departure, making lots of smoke. You can imagine how dangerously excited the firies got when they saw the towering column of black clag blotting out half the station...

Cheers,

Mark.

[HarryHotspur]

Seems like you could fill a tender with a garden hose in about a day and a half or so.

[marknewton]

NS fitted 611 with a standard fire department hose connection so they could take water from hydrants - frequently with the aid of a local fire department pumper.  Don't know for sure, but logic would suggest that there should be a basket filter at the discharge end of that filler pipe.  Boiler treatment chemicals could have been added from a sack, but that was neither shown nor mentioned.

The video I saw this on is titled Norfolk & Western #611, in case anyone wants to check me.

Nah, I know you're right about this - seen it meself!

All our engines are fitted up in the same way, with through pipes and camlock fittings front and rear. The gins have the same, as well as a diesel pump to transfer water quickly if needed.

It's interesting you mention the pumper trucks, because they're what I've had the most trouble with. Even though we'd always try to arrange for the brigades to only supply town water, there were instances where they took water from creeks or dams. Then you'd either get water that was so muddy it looked like pumpkin soup, or full of weeds and little beasties like yabbies*.

We did experiment with inline filters, but we found if they were fine enough to keep all the muck out, they tended to clog or even burst.

There was one memorable time when we got water from a country bushfire brigade, and there was fire retardant still in their tank. When I put an injector on, the water in the gauge glasses quickly turned milky white, and shortly after that we had no end of trouble with the engine foaming and priming.

It got so bad that we had to stable the train, and run the engine light into Lithgow Loco to blow the thing down, and flush out the tender. 11.00 o'clock on a still Sunday night in a small country town, and we're blowing the engine down three times, with the safeties lifting... The locals really loved us for that!

* Little buggers that are like your crayfish, I suppose. But having dug them all out of the tender strainers, they cooked up quite nicely using the deck hose. Yummy!

Cheers,

Mark.

[dehusman]

US shortline engines often had siphons to suck water (and anything else slow) out of creeks if necessary.

One of my former bosses was a brakeman on the Gurdon-El Dorado local (Arkansas).  They had decided to skip coaling becuase they were in a hurry and they thought they had enough for the trip.  They ended up having to stop on the way back where the section gang had been changing out ties and load chunks of old ties onto the engine for fuel to nurse it back to the terminal.

Dave H.

[JimRCGMO]

1) Thank you, Chip, ICRR, and Stein for your useful information. The debating/point-making does nothing to illuminate.

2) Some of us prefer to exercise creativity, rather than be rivet-counters.

(More than) 'nuff said.

Jim in Cape Girardeau

(I work in the mental health field) 

[ICRR1964]

Point taken Jim, no problem

[SpaceMouse]

(I work in the mental health field) 

I do believe you've come to the right place.

[HarryHotspur]

Where do we view the entries? Or do we just read the arguments?

[SpaceMouse]

Where do we view the entries? Or do we just read the arguments?

The actual contest thread is here:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1341679/ShowPost.aspx

but the contest isn't over until the 20th and they won't be posted before then.

The past contests are here:

http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/4x8Contest.html

http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/10x12Contest.html 

 

[C&O Fan]

Where do we view the entries? Or do we just read the arguments?

That's a good one Harry !

[HarryHotspur]

Thanks Chip.

[marknewton]

US shortline engines often had siphons to suck water (and anything else slow) out of creeks if necessary.

Yeah, I've seen them on a few preserved Shays. The little Climax at Puffing Billy has one, too, which I've seen used. For locos like these, they're a great idea.

One of my former bosses was a brakeman on the Gurdon-El Dorado local (Arkansas).  They had decided to skip coaling becuase they were in a hurry and they thought they had enough for the trip.  They ended up having to stop on the way back where the section gang had been changing out ties and load chunks of old ties onto the engine for fuel to nurse it back to the terminal.

Dave H.

LOL!
Been there, done that, got the splinters in my hands to show for it!

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

1) Thank you, Chip, ICRR, and Stein for your useful information. The debating/point-making does nothing to illuminate.

Really? So stating the facts and explaining the reasons why you reached a particular conclusion isn't "illuminating"?

2) Some of us prefer to exercise creativity, rather than be rivet-counters.

Ah, so "rivet-counters" aren't creative?

[steinjr]

1) Thank you, Chip, ICRR, and Stein for your useful information. The debating/point-making does nothing to illuminate.

Really? So stating the facts and explaining the reasons why you reached a particular conclusion isn't "illuminating"?

 Peace, guys. Please. Debating _is_ often useful, and can illuminate.  As can peaceful dialog.

 ICRR and I have been quietly and peacefully working together by email to put together a presentation of Thawville, IL if anyone should want to model the place for the 2x8 contest. It is a very interesting little town.

2) Some of us prefer to exercise creativity, rather than be rivet-counters.

Ah, so "rivet-counters" aren't creative?

 All forms of model railroading/railroad modelling takes creativity. Relax, guys.

 

 Stein

 

 

[marknewton]

Stein, I'm relaxed. I'll stay peaceful, too. I doubt JimRCGMO will be back. He took his shot, then sprinted back to Elliot's Cafe or whatever they call it.

mark.

[JimRCGMO]

...

[marknewton]

Ooooh - an ellipsis!

Now THAT'S exercising creativity.

[dehusman]

Ooooh - an ellipsis!

Now THAT'S exercising creativity.

Nope :

Rule 14-h : o o o - Whistle signals.  When standing, back up. 8-)

Dave H.

[ICRR1964]

Stein and I are almost done guys, should have something this this week!