Bachmann Track Question

[Curmudgeon]

I do it the cheapest way.

But I have learned in all my years what works and what doesn't.

One of these days I'll get around to buying a locomotive and actually laying track.

Maybe folks will listen then.

Maybe naught.

[Anonymous]

Lots of luck.

Big difference between shooting it down tubes (and Bachmann track is open at the bottoms) or painting the inside of a tank.

No paint within the cost factors I know of will hold up to constant wheel slip.

Another factor IS tractive effort.

That paint shiny?
You seriously are not the first to think you are going to re-invent the wheel and not spend the money everyone else has to to get the job done.

Known enough who, when they realized all the work was for naught, ripped it up and gave up.

But, if you're young enough to do it again, and have enough money to throw at it, have fun!

Hmmm, let's see.....I'm 64 years old.....don't know if that's "young enough," but, I am retired, so, I guess I do have plenty of time to "do it again" if I have to.  And fortunately, I do have "enough money to throw at it"....mainly because of all the money I've saved over the years figuring out low cost ways to do expensive projects like this one!!! 

Junnie : )

[Curmudgeon]

Mark,

Thanks for the suggestions. I plan to have most of the layout elevated.....the lowest point will be about 2 ft. from the ground. Stepping on the track should not be a major problem.

There are some very sturdy industrial two part epoxy paints available that I plan to test. Some of these finishes I have experience with as we applied them to the insides of mild steel storage tanks and the concrete floors in our wineries. They held up very well under the barrage of heavy pumps that were being constantly rolled over them.

The key to a durable long lasting finish on metal is to make sure that the surface to be painted is either sandblasted or chemically etched. For my test, I plan to soak several sections of the track in Jasco Metal Etch, and, then when dry, spray them with one of these industrial epoxy finishes.

Finally, before installing the test sections, I plan to coat the inside of the rails with linseed oil to inhibit rusting from the inside. As I said in a previous post, this method is used to prevent the 4130 steel tubes that are used in older aircraft from rusting on the inside.

Junnie

 

Lots of luck.

Big difference between shooting it down tubes (and Bachmann track is open at the bottoms) or painting the inside of a tank.

No paint within the cost factors I know of will hold up to constant wheel slip.

Another factor IS tractive effort.

That paint shiny?
You seriously are not the first to think you are going to re-invent the wheel and not spend the money everyone else has to to get the job done.

Known enough who, when they realized all the work was for naught, ripped it up and gave up.

But, if you're young enough to do it again, and have enough money to throw at it, have fun!

[markperr]

Junnie;

Sounds like you not only have the motivation, but the resources and know-how to accomplish what it is you want to do.  Best of luck to you and keep us updated, possibly even with pictures.

Mark

 

 

[Anonymous]

Mark,

Thanks for the suggestions. I plan to have most of the layout elevated.....the lowest point will be about 2 ft. from the ground. Stepping on the track should not be a major problem.

There are some very sturdy industrial two part epoxy paints available that I plan to test. Some of these finishes I have experience with as we applied them to the insides of mild steel storage tanks and the concrete floors in our wineries. They held up very well under the barrage of heavy pumps that were being constantly rolled over them.

The key to a durable long lasting finish on metal is to make sure that the surface to be painted is either sandblasted or chemically etched. For my test, I plan to soak several sections of the track in Jasco Metal Etch, and, then when dry, spray them with one of these industrial epoxy finishes.

Finally, before installing the test sections, I plan to coat the inside of the rails with linseed oil to inhibit rusting from the inside. As I said in a previous post, this method is used to prevent the 4130 steel tubes that are used in older aircraft from rusting on the inside.

Junnie

[markperr]

Junnie;

You might want to consider using them for storage tracks, perhaps inside a roundhouse or train shed.  This would keep the majority of the precipitation off of them, although you will still have rusting from the humidity.  I wouldn't use them on the mainline, but that's me.

Everybody is right with regards to plating/painting.  It will wear off very soon where the flanges rub against the rails.  You'll find yourself spending a lot of time doing track maintenance.

On average, through most mail order houses, the cost of Aristo solid brass track is about $4.00/foot or less including shipping.  You can price it out using a copy of GR and checking their ads.  If your cost of plating/painting comes to less, than go for it,  but I would just have a small section done first so you don't invest a lot of money into a venture that, for all intents and purposes, will most likely cost you more in the long run.

One other thing to consider is that Bachmann track is very easy to damage if stepped on, as opposed to the other solid brass rail from the manufacturers listed above.

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

I will be accused of causing a fire of opinions.

You asked for peoples opinoin of what they thought of Bachmann's track.

Then you disreguard what everyone tells you.

If you want to do what you want to do. Then do it.

It is your time and money.

Hi Spike,

I respectfully disagree....I did not ask "for peoples opinion of what they thought of Bachmann's track."  Please refer to the following quote from my initial posting:

"I have just been given a very large quantity of Bachmann G-scale track,
along with Bachmann loco, and rolling stock.

I live on a 5 acre parcel, and, have plenty of space to build a very
large outdoor layout. Obviously, for cost reasons, I would like to use
the Bachmann track. I am planning to convert my
Bachmann Loco to battery power..... so no track cleaning will be necessary."

It think it is fairly obvious that I was looking for some creative ideas on how to use the track... not a list of all the reasons why I shouldn't use it! What I was hoping for was some "outside of the box thinking."  I knew before I made the posting that Bachmann track is not intended for outdoor use.

Regards, Junnie

[spikejones52002]

I will be accused of causing a fire of opinions.

You asked for peoples opinoin of what they thought of Bachmann's track.

Then you disreguard what everyone tells you.

If you want to do what you want to do. Then do it.

It is your time and money.

[Curmudgeon]

No.

They are not designed for outdoors, and are falling apart.

There is no treatment you can do at home to keep this stuff working and still pick up power from the rails.

I can run on it if we put the upper switch back in, as I am all on-board radio-battery.

The silly joiners will give you issues, too, some rust, some don't, and keeping any kind of connectivity between rails is a joke.

The rails are swaged in, and you won't get them out and back in neatly.

To have the stuff plated will, in fact, cost you more than good track, and plating on rails does wear off rapidly on the top of the rails, so you'll be back where you started.

I got this stuff from someone who thought they were going to beat everybody else at cost and do it cheap.

They ripped the railroad up, sold the house and trains, and moved to Canada.

But, have fun!

[Anonymous]

Wow...Nasty looking!

I received my free Bachman track today, so I will soon be putting samples out with various treatments to see how each holds up to the elements over time.

I assume that no special treatments had been applied to the track shown in the picture (oil, rust inhibitor, paint, etc.) Is this correct?  Also, how did the plastic ties hold up? I can see that they are discolored,(actually, they look nicely weathered) but, are they still structurally sound?

Thanks, Junnie 

[Curmudgeon]

 

This was a year or so on the ground.

The rails are now fairly see-through, as most of the rail has turned to powder.

[piercedan]

Unlike planes that fly in the air, trains have powered wheels that touch the track.  Solid axles on cars where the inside wheel fights with the outside wheel on curves thus all these cause a grinding action.

 

Any kind of finish on track will wear off and then you are back to rusting rails once again.

 

I have brass by LGB, Aristocraft and USA, 5 years and I had to fix only one piece where a heavy person stepped on the rail and the track was bent. 

[Anonymous]

The Bachmann large scale track is hollow so it is very thin (the reason it rusts to nothing in very little time)

There have been a few comments concerning the fact that the track is hollow and may rust from the inside. To solve this problem I was planning to try the method that is used for tube and fabric airplanes. Piper Cubs, Taylorcrafts, Citabrias, Pitts Specials, and many others all have fuselages that are made of 4130 steel tubing.

To prevent these tubes from rusting from the inside out, a product called tube seal is poured in the tubes and sloshed around. It is made from linseed oil and various other inhibitors. The linseed oil adheres to the walls of the tubes, and, when it dries, it forms a protective surface which prevents rust and fills any pinholes in the welded joints. I currently use this product in the racing biplane that I built, and have used it on various antique airplanes that I have restored in the past.

This would be easy to accomplish....Just fill an oil can with the tube seal product and pump it through each rail before the section is laid.

Junnie

 

[Anonymous]

I had thought of starting the same way-using gun bluing or brown -but you also have to treat the ties -alot of $$ and effort and then you still have track that will not survive a falling branch or a miss-step.

Gun bluing....Great idea!

I'm in no big hurry to start laying permanent track. I have a large deck that extends all the way around my house and a large part of it covered. I plan to take some of the Bachmann track and set it up on the deck just to get my feet wet and test my work while converting my loco to battery/RC.

Once I get this temporary setup done, I plan to do some experiments with the track utilizing some of the things we have talked about in this thread....gun bluing, plating, painting, wiping weekly with various rust inhibitors, etc. I will expose samples of each, along with untreated control samples, to the elements and record the results over a long period of time. If nothing else, I will be able to tell for certain exactly how long it will take the untreated sample to deteriorate to an unusable condition. I've been given estimates ranging from 1 month to 3 years! 

Since I am retired, I am fortunate to have plenty of time to devote to such idle pursuits.

So, if there are any more ideas floating around out there, don't be shy, pass them along!

Junnie

[markn]

Like Vic said-sell it on ebay to raise seed money for brass track, it seems it goes for $2-3 a piece, there is always some for sale and it always sells-so obviously there is a (indoor) market for it. 

I had thought of starting the same way-using gun bluing or brown -but you also have to treat the ties -alot of $$ and effort and then you still have track that will not survive a falling branch or a miss-step.

In August 2005, I paid $2.75 ea for Aristocraft Brass 1 ft straights and 4ft and 5ft diameter curves at Davis Trains in Cincinnati (add 5 % for tax or 5-10% shipping)-

You seem to be willing to put in a little effort so I would recommend you put the effort into cleaning up the track and sell it on ebay, use the proceeds to buy brass track and you will only have to lay it once. 

[John Busby]

Hi junnie

Sorry but I am with the rest of the crew on this one trains OK plan OK

Track crap!!! File in green wheeled receptacle on rubbish day, Marklin vintage say 1900 tubular tinplate gauge one track even Lionel "O" would last longer outside and that would not last outside.

You will need to get solid brass track like Aristocraft or LGB a lot of people seem to use Aristocraft for plain track and LGB for switches

The key thing is the solid rails Bachmann ones are hollow which is why it cannot be made to go the distance outside.

5 Acres nice block but start with a Railroad say 15 feet by 30 feet sounds small when talking garden trains, but give it time and it will spread like a noxious weed but start with a small manageable railroad using the longest rail sections you can.

added later:-

You also need the solid rails to cope with the things the 12"= 1' world can throw at it in the garden a miss placed foot on maint work would well and truly the Bachmann track.

As well as possibly the family pet walking the length to explore this strange new thing dad is building in the garden.

The mentioned brands can cope with both

regards John

[Rastun]

The Bachmann large scale track is hollow so it is very thin (the reason it rusts to nothing in very little time)

Sending the rails out to have them plated would cost more than just buying track that is made to be outside.

 

The paint may work but anytime it's nicked or a spot is missed you may have rust immediately start at that spot. The paint thickness would have to be watched to make sure you don't change the track gauge to much.

 

The steel rails preserved by use of kerosene where probably solid rails not hollow like the Bachmann one are.

 

Best of luck in what ever path you decide to use.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all for the replies!

I have always been sort of a maverick....I like to try to figure out ways to do things that others say are impossible. Add to this the fact that I'm considered by most of my friends to be a tight-wad...and you have a dangerous combination!

As I said in my first post, I have been given a large amount of free Bachmann track. Considering this, I can afford to spend some time and money trying to figure out ingenious ways to try and use this track successfully outdoors.

Following are some thoughts that I had. You may laugh at them, but remember, they laughed at Columbus when he said the world was round! Keep in mind when you read them that I have never seen a piece of Bachmann track.....I won't be picking up my free supply until next Tuesday....and, that I plan to use RC and battery power. Therefore, the tracks will not be required to conduct electricity.

1 - If the rails on the track sections are removable (are they?), I could send them out and have them nickel plated or galvanized and then reinstall them on the ties.  While the rails are out for plating, I could spray the tops of the ties with brown or black epoxy paint with UV barrier added.

2 - If I am unable to separate the rails from ties, I could coat the entire track section with epoxy paint.  I would have to experiment to see which was easier, but, I think I would paint the rails first with a prototypical color, then run a strip of appropriately sized masking tape down each rail and then paint the ties. I was in the wine business for many years and we use to epoxy paint the insides of our old steel storage tanks to prevent rust. This coating would last for many, many years.

3 - I read somewhere recently, that in England, during the early days of garden railroads, all of the track was steel and the builders had to learn ways to prevent their track from rusting away. As we all know, England is noted for It's very damp climate. One method they used was to wipe the track down with kerosene once a week, or, more often if needed. As I recall, the article said they built/modified tank cars to perform this function while the train was operating. I'm sure other rust prohibiters would work just as well, but kerosine, or plain old diesel fuel would be very cost effective.

So far, this is what I have come up with. Do any of you garden railroad veterans have any ideas to add to the mix? If not,  what are your thoughts concerning my initial ideas?

Junnie

[two tone]

Hi to G Gauge Like the comments before I agree 100%. I know that LGB track is exspensive but it is worth every doller/ pound it does not rust rail joiners are good I use track power and in 5 years have not had one break in it. If you are thinking of staying where you live for a number of years go for LGB.  But its up to you .

[Anonymous]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but while the trains are A-OK outdoors, that track is crap!

Not designed for outdoor use, its only real use is for indoor xmas tree setups. Even if your running batteries and RC, it will rust into nothingness in a matter of months outdoors, maybe sooner.

Best bet is to look for brass track by LGB, USA trains or Aristo Craft trains, this track is designed for outdoor use and will last for years.

Keep the straight peices, use them for storage or display track, sell the rest on Ebay, use the proceeds as starter money for the brass stuff.  If your going battery, then brass is the most cost effective to use.

Good Luck

Vic, is right on about the Bmann track, it is junk! If you want to test it sent just a piece of it out side for 6 months and you will find out.

I think I have some Bmann track in the gargage.....never used. Used indoors only! And check your wheels to make sure there metal and not plastic! Plastic wheels are bad for the track. Please ask any questions!!!! We are here to help.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I must say, I was very surprised to hear that Bachman track would rust completely through in a matter of a few months! I would think it would take at least a few years for this to happen. As I understand it, this track is steel plated. If so, what would cause it to disintigrate so quickly? What am I missing?

Junnie

[vsmith]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but while the trains are A-OK outdoors, that track is crap!

Not designed for outdoor use, its only real use is for indoor xmas tree setups. Even if your running batteries and RC, it will rust into nothingness in a matter of months outdoors, maybe sooner.

Best bet is to look for brass track by LGB, USA trains or Aristo Craft trains, this track is designed for outdoor use and will last for years.

Keep the straight peices, use them for storage or display track, sell the rest on Ebay, use the proceeds as starter money for the brass stuff.  If your going battery, then brass is the most cost effective to use.

Good Luck

[altterrain]

Hi Junnie,

 Welcome to garden railroading. Unfortunately, the Bachmann track is worth about what you paid for it when it comes to outdoor use. It will rust away to nothing in a month outdoors. Its fine for use indoors in dry areas. The other problem with it is, it is only 4 foot in diameter and only the smallest loco will run well on it. If you ever plan on running any of the larger locomotives or passenger cars you will want a minimum of 8 foot diameter. Since you plan on battery/RC power you can use old, dirty, used brass track or aluminum track.

 

-Brian 

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

I'm new to the group and new to G-scale.

I have just be given a very large quantity of Bachmann G-scale track,
along with Bachmann loco, and rolling stock.

I live on a 5 acre parcel, and, have plenty of space to build a very
large outdoor layout. Obviously, for cost reasons, I would like to use
the Bachmann track. I am planning to convert my
Bachmann Loco to battery power..... so no track cleaning will be necessary.

Given this info, what do some of you more experienced members think of this plan?

Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

Junnie