Frank,
Mark just pointed out what the MSDS Sheet had to say. Do you know what one is? From the above remark to Mark you don't. Any chemical has a MSDS Sheet.
markperr wrote: Went to WD-40's website and looked at the MSDS and although it lists no incompatibilities other than for human consumption or fire proximity, it does list that it is made up of 50% Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates and 35% Petroleum Base Oil. This, in my experience, makes it fairly incompatible, in the long haul, with most plastics. That said, you can buy WD-40 in a gallon container which is plastic. Go figure. So, I suspect that, while it may not work too well as a plastics lubricant, it's probably pretty inert just sitting on the ties.The one thing that I found amusing was that the flash point for WD-40 is 131 degrees fahrenheit, while it's boiling point is 323 degrees fahrenheit. That would mean it's probably unwise to boil WD-40 in an open container, right?Mark
Went to WD-40's website and looked at the MSDS and although it lists no incompatibilities other than for human consumption or fire proximity, it does list that it is made up of 50% Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates and 35% Petroleum Base Oil. This, in my experience, makes it fairly incompatible, in the long haul, with most plastics. That said, you can buy WD-40 in a gallon container which is plastic. Go figure. So, I suspect that, while it may not work too well as a plastics lubricant, it's probably pretty inert just sitting on the ties.
The one thing that I found amusing was that the flash point for WD-40 is 131 degrees fahrenheit, while it's boiling point is 323 degrees fahrenheit. That would mean it's probably unwise to boil WD-40 in an open container, right?
Mark
Hi Mark,
There are many "Urban Legends" that have sprung up around WD-40....I have found from actual experience, that most of them are complete nonsense! Summarizing what I have learned from using this product for the past 20 years:
1 - WD-40 is a great electrical cleaner for heavily oxidized surfaces.
2 - WD-40 is not a great lubricant.
3 - WD-40 is a fairly good rust inhibitor if applied weekly in outdoor situations.
4 - WD-40 will not hurt plastic surfaces....at least I have never had a problem with it in this regard.
Regards, Junnie
"I've been following this thread since its inception and was rereading it today when I came to this post of yours. It's interesting that when you quoted your original post, you omitted the last two sentences:
"Given this info, what do some of you more experienced members think of this plan?
Any recommendations will be greatly appreciated."
You are correct in stating that you didn't ask what others thought of Bachmann's track, but to me, this doesn't look like you're asking for creative ideas, either. Most of the "more experienced members" said that your plan would be an exercise in futility and said why. And while I can't determine if you appreciated any of the recommendations, it's clear that you are chosing to ignore them. So be it.
If this is to be done for cost reasons, how much will it cost you to treat the Bachmann track? Unless you've found an incredibly cheap source for your epoxy paints and other treatments, this will offset much of the gain in using this track. Could this money be set aside and combined with what you could get for the Bachmann track on eBay? My personal opinion is that you're going to great lengths to attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."
Let's be honest......since I had just been given a large quantity of "free" Bachmann track, I think most people would naturally assume that I was looking for ways to use the track, not for 100 reasons why I should throw it away!
Just this morning I sprayed several sections of track with clear epoxy paint. Based on this I feel that I can epoxy coat approximately 750 ft of track with a gallon of paint. The paint will cost me $100 per gallon. (I bought 1 quart for the test at $23.) I plan to treat the inside of the track with linseed oil. This will cost another $20 dollars. Total cost to treat 750 feet of track will come to 16 cents per foot. If it works, the cost of track for my layout will be 16 cents/foot!!!
Based on my initial experiments on this project, I now feel that epoxy coating will be the method of choice. I realize that the coating may eventually wear off the top of the track, but an occasional wipe down with light oil should prevent major problems. The good news is that the ties and sides of the track will be well protected by the epoxy for many years.
Buy the way, there is no feeling on earth as glorious as that which comes from taking a sow's ear and making it into a silk purse....more people should try it!
Junnie
Junnie wrote: spikejones52002 wrote: I will be accused of causing a fire of opinions.You asked for peoples opinoin of what they thought of Bachmann's track.Then you disreguard what everyone tells you.If you want to do what you want to do. Then do it.It is your time and money.Hi Spike,I respectfully disagree....I did not ask "for peoples opinion of what they thought of Bachmann's track." Please refer to the following quote from my initial posting:"I have just been given a very large quantity of Bachmann G-scale track,along with Bachmann loco, and rolling stock.I live on a 5 acre parcel, and, have plenty of space to build a verylarge outdoor layout. Obviously, for cost reasons, I would like to usethe Bachmann track. I am planning to convert myBachmann Loco to battery power..... so no track cleaning will be necessary."It think it is fairly obvious that I was looking for some creative ideas on how to use the track... not a list of all the reasons why I shouldn't use it! What I was hoping for was some "outside of the box thinking." I knew before I made the posting that Bachmann track is not intended for outdoor use.Regards, Junnie
spikejones52002 wrote: I will be accused of causing a fire of opinions.You asked for peoples opinoin of what they thought of Bachmann's track.Then you disreguard what everyone tells you.If you want to do what you want to do. Then do it.It is your time and money.
I will be accused of causing a fire of opinions.
You asked for peoples opinoin of what they thought of Bachmann's track.
Then you disreguard what everyone tells you.
If you want to do what you want to do. Then do it.
It is your time and money.
Hi Spike,
I respectfully disagree....I did not ask "for peoples opinion of what they thought of Bachmann's track." Please refer to the following quote from my initial posting:
"I have just been given a very large quantity of Bachmann G-scale track,along with Bachmann loco, and rolling stock.I live on a 5 acre parcel, and, have plenty of space to build a verylarge outdoor layout. Obviously, for cost reasons, I would like to usethe Bachmann track. I am planning to convert myBachmann Loco to battery power..... so no track cleaning will be necessary."
It think it is fairly obvious that I was looking for some creative ideas on how to use the track... not a list of all the reasons why I shouldn't use it! What I was hoping for was some "outside of the box thinking." I knew before I made the posting that Bachmann track is not intended for outdoor use.
I've been following this thread since its inception and was rereading it today when I came to this post of yours. It's interesting that when you quoted your original post, you omitted the last two sentences:
If this is to be done for cost reasons, how much will it cost you to treat the Bachmann track? Unless you've found an incredibly cheap source for your epoxy paints and other treatments, this will offset much of the gain in using this track. Could this money be set aside and combined with what you could get for the Bachmann track on eBay? My personal opinion is that you're going to great lengths to attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
altterrain wrote: Well if the UV doesn't eat the ties, the WD-40 probably will. Its not plastic compatible. I will look forward to the results of these experiments. -Brian
Well if the UV doesn't eat the ties, the WD-40 probably will. Its not plastic compatible. I will look forward to the results of these experiments.
-Brian
Hi Brian,
Interesting....I've used WD-40 for years on all types of plastics and have never had a problem. I collect and restore audio tube amplifiers and use it to clean plastic knobs, switches, tube sockets, face plates, RCA plugs / jacks and chassis'. I find WD-40 to be a much better cleaner and rust inhibitor than I do a lubricant. In fact, for heavily oxidized electrical connections, such as RCA jacks and plugs, Tube sockets, etc., it does a much better job than contact cleaner.
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762398403316
"Cann't view the photos, is it a open account Frank?"
Try it now....forgot to give permission....sorry. You may have to copy and paste the address.
Here it is again: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762398403316
Cann't view the photos , is it a open account Frank?
Hi all,
It rained last night, and, already I have photos to post of the Bachmann track experiment.
When you click on the link below, you will see two photos. The first is of untreated track after one day in the rain. The second is of track treated with WD-40 after one day in the rain. A third piece of track (no photo) was treated with 20 weight motor oil. After one day in the rain, it looks identical to the track treated with WD-40.
Tomorrow, I hope to add tracks sprayed with clear epoxy to the sample group.
Will keep you posted.
"Oh yeah where are the test photo/s pictures?"
ToadFrog
Since I just put the test samples out this morning, all you would see if I posted a photo now would be three pieces of shiny Bachmann track nailed to the top of a small log retaining wall on the side of my house where I plan to build phase one of my layout.
You can rest assured, that just as soon as I start to see any weather related changes in the samples, I will take photos and post them for all to see.
Patience, my friend!
Hi Santa Fe,
I don't recall indicating that I would be posting pictures of my layout anytime soon. I just received my track, loco and rolling stock last Tuesday! However, I have decided on a location for the first phase of my layout, but it will be awhile before I am ready to start laying track. As you know from reading this thread, I am trying some experiments with the Bachmann track to see if I can "weatherize" it for outdoor use.
Right now I am in my work shop building wooden trusses. I have two 8 foot sections completed. As I indicated previously, the initial phase of my layout will be elevated.
I am also in the process of converting my Bachmann 4-6-0 Big Hauler to RC / battery operation. I am using ProBoats Waterproof Electronic Speed Control with Reverse and a standard RC TX and RX. All components fit very nicely in the tender. I am waiting for delivery of the ESC to complete this project. I was turned on to this ESC by FJ in one of his postings on the General Discussion Forum.
Hi all. I've been following this for a while now and learning a lot from you all. I was just wondering Junnie, where the pictures are that you were going to post? I just wanted to see what your lay out was going to be.
Thanks
Hey ToadFrog,
What's the matter? Your cat got your tongue! har, har, har...
Hi Kstrong,
Thanks for the input!
The initial layout that I am contemplating requires approximately 150 feet of track. It is a large "L" shaped design. It will have 132 ft of straight sections and 18 feet of curved sections. (six 90 degree turns). The 400 feet of "free" track that I received is approximately 25% curved and 75% straight. This is based on the number of track sections, not on a measure of running feet.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I live out in the country on a 5 acre parcel....so, long, straight runs are easy to achieve. This makes it possible to use a few 90 degree turns with long straight sections between them. For interest, I may decide to add 180 degree turns at a later date.
The limit will be number of cars, how much string-lining and subsequent repairs will need to be done off 2' high roadbed, and weasel-joice and motor oil on track....the antithesis of sanders.
Then, one has to consider the effects of non-plastic-compatible weasel-juice and motor oil on the ties.
Suspect Northern California, which still has far more UV issues than up in the Pacific Northwest, will deteriorate the ties rapidly.
Add the plastic-eating oils, the weekly wipe-downs, well, the issue of "doing it again" that enters into it is the curvature.
When you decide 2' radius isn't going to cut it, and you've built your roadbed, and have to re-build to allow reasonable curves......
There was probably a reason you were given 400' of the stuff.
I've given it away.
I use it on turntable leads where needed, and abandoned grades, and in the bottom of my trash can, and that's about it.
calenelson wrote:... I wish you luck with your endevor, although I personally believe you could invest yourself, your energy, monies and passion into getting started with a more realistic approach using what is known to work (and has been working for years)...
Cale,
Thanks for providing a detailed account of your experience with Bachmann track.
Just this morning I started a long term project to measure the deterioration of Bachmann track under varying conditions when exposed to the elements.
I attached samples 1, 2 & 3 (shown below) to the top of a retaining wall outside in the location that I intend to build my garden railroad. By the end of the week I hope to have samples 4 & 5 completed and in place. As the project moves forward, I may add other samples with other treatments if I believe they offer viable and practical alternatives. I intend to periodically post the results of this experiment on this forum.
1 - Control Sample - no treatment at all
2 - Track section wiped down with WD-40 once a week - no treatment to the inside of the rails.
3 - Track section wiped down with 20W motor oil once a week - no treatment to the inside of the rails.
4 - Track section treated with metal etch, then sprayed with Clear two part epoxy finish with UV blockers - no treatment to the inside of the rails.
5 - Track section treated with metal etch, then sprayed with Clear two part epoxy finish with UV blockers - inside of rails treated with boiled linseed oil.
A few commets...
I live in the Upstate of SC. I have a good deal of Bman Track stored in my garage (Closed enviroment). The first set of track from a 2005 Sams set has already began to rust on the Rail Head....just sitting there in my garage, no water anywhere (except in the air, we call it humidity).
I also have 2 2006 Sams sets and this year I placed some track around my Christmas tree from the 2nd sets...after the boys and I played for about a month (Running trains) I inspected after removing tree....it had also began to rust, seemingly where I had touched it.....
I also noticed that the plating from the drivers had began to run off onto the track, and the wheels on my HLW Mack were More than dirty! This never really affected the operational aspects of the trains, but did interest me.
I have since installed some of the straight sections of track into my Garage Cabinets to store trains on and to help keep the dust and little fingers away.....and yes it seems to be rusting too!
I run RC and Batt in the yard...on Used dirty brown cheap Brass 332 track....
You came to the fourm asking opnions, so I will share mine, knowing that I prob won't convince you either...........
If it were me....I'd use the Bmann track inside my home...whether inside for the Christmas tree, in the formal dining room, in the Sunroom.....or like I did for a while a loop in the playroom floor to keep the kids interested while I was outside laying track (after months of stepping on-it was bent and retired---and rusted too).
You can also use the track for train storage as mentioned above...do something constructive with it so you don't waste your "free gift"...or the thing I'd really consider is selling it on Ebay to fund a real track purchase...you would be suprised what some will pay for that track!
New trackage is about $3/foot before shipping....used can range anywhere from Free to around an average of $2/foot....I bought all of my track used...and saved a great deal of money to use for other things on the RR, and inside like Diapers and Formula!
With all of that said I wish you luck with your endevor, although I personally believe you could invest yourself, your energy, monies and passion into getting started with a more realistic approach using what is known to work (and has been working for years)...like Brass, Al, or Stainless track....
I would also encourage you to check on some of the other online train froums like MyLargescale.com and LargescaleCentral.com .....ask the question there and compare the answers you receive....I believe you will be suprised everyone will agree on the subject...I think the Bachmann Train forum would be a good place for answers too!
Cale...
you may want to investigate LGB's latest track offering...Ni Plated Track...(It is my understanding) now folks are having trouble with it...if LGB, a premiere track producing company with a long history in LS trains can't get plated track to work....well.....you'll prob have a hard time too!
These guys really aren't trying to give you a hard time, just sharing with you the facts and realities they have garnered over the years...
TonyWalsham wrote: Junnie,You live in California, Dave lives in Washington state.Big difference in the weather and what the weather will do to metal over time.By all means experiment, and, when Dave is proven correct, as he always is, please acknowledge so and listen to what he has to say. It just might save you even more angst with other "doin it on the cheap" ideas you might come up with in the future.
Junnie,
You live in California, Dave lives in Washington state.
Big difference in the weather and what the weather will do to metal over time.
By all means experiment, and, when Dave is proven correct, as he always is, please acknowledge so and listen to what he has to say. It just might save you even more angst with other "doin it on the cheap" ideas you might come up with in the future.
Hi Tony,
1 - I have been given over 400 feet of Bachmann track, a loco, and some rolling stock, absolutely free of charge! Considering this, I fail to see how you could possibly surmise that this was a "a doin it on the cheap" idea that I came up with, or, that this delightful windfall could cause me the least bit of "angst"
2 - Remember that I plan to run battery powered locos exclusively on this track, and, that I am retired with nothing to do all day but spend time on my various hobbies. Therefore, I think you will agree, that my chances of being able to keep this track in operating condition for a minimum of 3 years are very, very good.
3 - The worst case scenario is that the "free" track starts to fall apart after one year and I have to replace it with "purchased" track. I seriously doubt that this will happen, since I plan to paint the track with industrial two part epoxy with UV blockers added. But, let's say that It does, so what? The only cost to me will be my time and the $70 that I spent for a gallon of epoxy paint.
4 - Im confused, you suggest that I experiment, and then in the same sentence, infer that the track will disintegrate in a few months (Dave's contention). Do you also believe that the track will disintegrate in a few months? Even if I apply an epoxy coating to the outside and treat the inside with linseed oil?
5 - I do plan to take this project on as a learning experience for all forum members, and as such, will report progress on a regular basis. In fact, tomorrow, I will place 2 control samples of the untreated track out on my patio in a location that is fully exposed to the elements.
Best wishes,Tony Walsham (Remote Control Systems) http://www.rcs-rc.comModern technology. Old fashioned reliability.
Curmudgeon wrote: If it's Lionel 3-rail, it was plated.This is literally powder.The rail hads are gone in places, webs gone, base gone, I do have a later shot, I'll have to upload it.One thing about painbt:The engineering of how railroad wheels work is there in no differential.The right wheel is locked to the left wheel on any given axle.In the prototype, the angle of the tread and the fillet at the flange caused the wheels to move across the rail head, finding the "sweet spot" where the diameter of each wheel matched the speed differential of the individual wheels on a curve.Curvature is therefore limited.Using R-1 (Bachmann curves) is the absolutely worst case scenario for this, as every wheel on every axle will be fighting the opposing wheel and something will be slipping.This "wheel slip" created friction, which rubs at the finish/paint of the rails.I could post photos of my locomotive wheels where the plating is gone, as is the copper undercoat, and I use 6'8" radius, not 2' radius.
If it's Lionel 3-rail, it was plated.
This is literally powder.
The rail hads are gone in places, webs gone, base gone, I do have a later shot, I'll have to upload it.
One thing about painbt:
The engineering of how railroad wheels work is there in no differential.
The right wheel is locked to the left wheel on any given axle.
In the prototype, the angle of the tread and the fillet at the flange caused the wheels to move across the rail head, finding the "sweet spot" where the diameter of each wheel matched the speed differential of the individual wheels on a curve.
Curvature is therefore limited.
Using R-1 (Bachmann curves) is the absolutely worst case scenario for this, as every wheel on every axle will be fighting the opposing wheel and something will be slipping.
This "wheel slip" created friction, which rubs at the finish/paint of the rails.
I could post photos of my locomotive wheels where the plating is gone, as is the copper undercoat, and I use 6'8" radius, not 2' radius.
Wow!!! I have never seen metal rust completely away in less that 3-5 years! What do they use in that Bachmann track that accelerates the oxidation process?
I have an old Minneapolis Moline tractor that has been sitting out in the meadow in font of my house for 40+ years exposed to the elements. There is not one spot on that old girl that has rusted through. The yellow paint has long gone, but the metal, while covered with rust, is still sound.
Curmudgeon wrote:I do it the cheapest way.But I have learned in all my years what works and what doesn't.One of these days I'll get around to buying a locomotive and actually laying track.Maybe folks will listen then.Maybe naught.
I do it the cheapest way.
But I have learned in all my years what works and what doesn't.
One of these days I'll get around to buying a locomotive and actually laying track.
Maybe folks will listen then.
Maybe naught.
TOC,
So do you think you'd build one designed for operations?
And if you did build it, would you keep it clear year round?
Jack
curmudgeon;
I love the look of that rustytrack; I assume you are exageratting for effect about it turning to powder; have left some lionel tubular outside for a year now and it looks like that but you can still operate an r/c train over it
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