Hi All,
I gave up on the test a few months ago because the final results were very predictable.
Here they are:
1 - Bachmann track with no treatment = Will rust very quickly, however, after one year, they are still structurally in very good condition.
2 - Bachmann track wiped down every two weeks with either WD-40 or 20 wt motor oil = No rust. However, When treatment was stopped several months ago, the track began to rust within 6 weeks.
3 - Track sprayed with clear epoxy and wiped down with WD-40 every two weeks = No rust. I have now cut the wipe down frequency to once per month with no ill effects.
Conclusion: I am satisfied that you can definitely use Bachmann track outside if you use either treatment #2 or #3 I have been using treatment #3 on my layout for the past 12 months, and, as you can see from the pictures that I took this morning, it is in great condition. Click on the following link to see pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9283706@N06/
Regards, Junnie
ToadFrogWhiteLightn wrote: Burn baby burn.................Toad
Burn baby burn.................
Toad
Get'em while their HOT !
Byron C.
ToadFrogWhiteLightn wrote: Junnie,Hey, how is that track???? I want some pictures!!!!!!Ole ToadOr do you need this?
Junnie,
Hey, how is that track???? I want some pictures!!!!!!
Ole Toad
Or do you need this?
Yo Toad Frog,
I think he might be mired down in this by now..... RUST.
He hasn't responded on this thread since back in July, 07 and not even anywhere to be found since than......
Hey Junnie you still around ???? Talk to us.....
Hi William,
The other three tracks, 1) untreated control sample; 2) sample wiped down every two weeks with WD-40, and, 3) sample wiped down every two weeks with 20 wt motor oil are still being monitored. The control sample is rusted, but still usable, and, the other two samples look just as good as the epoxy coated track that I showed in the recent pictures. Next time I post the results of this test, I will include pictures of these samples as well.
Junnie
Byron,
Now I know who you is ! Seen that avitor either on a web page or other forums.
Like your lay out.
William
William,
Maybe Florida Rocky, posted it on the LSOL forum in the past, he's been over to my place and took a few shots. The signal was obtained from him.
Byron
Frank,
Where are the three track sections on the post? How is they?
Say Junnie,
Just took the TIME to read all posts here and wonder just one thing, the grand child, has he ever sat down on any of the track after being wiped with the WD-40, or maybe even stuck his hands in his mouth after touching the track ??? Guess worse things could be ingested though...anyway more power to ya, to strike out on the untried stride.
That is more or less what I too have done to some extent in the hobby.....Everyone is so stuck on NARROW GAUGE for so long. I guess because of the "G" scale Pioneer, LGB, that's all they did for YEARS.....
But as I have tried to share with everyone on this Forum recently, I was use to seeing the huge steamers---long freights, and than transition into the Diesel Streamliner Passenger era of the late 50's and 60's, in Akron, Ohio where I grew up. You know the one time 'Rubber Capital of The World', lots of rail traffic there as a child growing up.
I'm glad that Aristo, USA, MTH, and even LGB to some extent now, are all now producing an ample sampling of what I choose to model, and grew up seeing, 1950's thru the 1960's American prototypes.....
It's nice to get and hear new ideas and ways of doing things. Thanks, for sharing it all with us.
By the way, I for one like to just run the trains as soon as I can, so I would not have had the patience as you have had here, and I do like to run large engines and long passenger and freight trains too....
The short radius track you used, would not have sufficed for me, but I'm glad to hear and see that you persevered and wern't detered from your endeavor, and hope Grandma has a good washer for grandsons pants.
Here's a couple'a shots of what I run on my line.
Have a good one. Byron
Hi all,
If you would like to see the results of the Bachman track test at the end of 3 months, please click on the following link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9283706@N06/sets/72157601003958939
I am very pleased with the results. As you can see, in spite of much rain and fog, there has been no corrosion at all on this epoxy coated track. As a precaution, I have been wiping down the track lightly with WD-40 every two weeks. This takes me about 10 minutes on my 80' layout.
mhampton wrote: OK, I'll admit to being one who questioned the wisdom of the decision to try to treat Bachmann track for use outside, but I was impressed with the results as of your last post. How have things progressed in the last five or so weeks?
Hi Mike,
The test is comming along just great.....The reason I haven't posted any new pictures is because there has been no change at all. The track Looks just as it did when I posted the last photos. Even the control sample (untreated) hasen't changed. If you would like to see those photos, here is the link:
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762401715501
The weather has been very foggy during the past several weeks, leaving visable moisture on the tracks for 2-3 hours in the morning, yet the treated samples have been holding up well.
If, and when, I see any changes, I assure you I will post new photos.
My grandson and I are having a ball with our 80ft epoxy coated test layout. Even though the track on this layout is epoxy coated, I have been wiping it down with WD-40 every two weeks. This takes about 10 minutes and is good insurance.
Regards, Junnie.
OK, I'll admit to being one who questioned the wisdom of the decision to try to treat Bachmann track for use outside, but I was impressed with the results as of your last post. How have things progressed in the last five or so weeks?
Click on the following link to see the results of the Bachmann track experiment after 5 weeks.
There has been no change in the treated samples.....none are showing signs of rust. We have had 3 days of rain and many days of heavy morning fog during this period.
I have been operating a 4-car train on the patio layout for the past two weeks with no problems. The track on this 90' layout is epoxy coated, both inside and out. I also wipe it down with a light coat of WD-40 every two weeks.
Click on the link below to see the results of the Bachmann track experiment after three weeks.
We have had 3 days of rain and several days of heavy fog during this period. None of the treated samples are showing any signs of rust.
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762399986045
grandpopswalt wrote: Hi Junnie, After studying the photos of your patio, I have just one question; will you adopt my wife and me so we can come live in your house there in Monterey? That's probably the only way we could afford the live there. It just doesn't get any better; playing with your trains while drinking the local wines in the middle of Steinbeck country. Good luck on your experiment, it might just work out where you live. Walt
Hi Junnie,
After studying the photos of your patio, I have just one question; will you adopt my wife and me so we can come live in your house there in Monterey? That's probably the only way we could afford the live there. It just doesn't get any better; playing with your trains while drinking the local wines in the middle of Steinbeck country.
Good luck on your experiment, it might just work out where you live.
Walt
Hi Walt,
I have to agree, the Monterey area is a great place to live...and the wines are superb, especially the whites...they are second to none. With the exception of Pinot Noir, the climate is a little to cool to produce the high sugars that you need to make world class reds.
You sound like a guy who likes to swim against the current, good for you. I'm a lot like that myself but most of the time I wind up spending more by trying to "experiment" than if I'd just bought the right product in the first place. But a least I usually learn something from the experience and I then know "for sure" that all that advice I was given was accurate.
If and when you decide to give up on the Bachmann track, I think you should consider aluminum track. It's not quite as sturdy as brass but usually cost quite a bit less. Since you will be running R/C and battery (good choice), conductivity will not be an issue.
Good luck.
spikejones52002 wrote:Lets see some close-ups of the rails and a follow up of their condition.
Hi Spike,
Go back and read several posts prior to this one and you will see some photos of track that I have been testing for 3 weeks outdoors. We have had rain in the Monterey area for three days during this period.
You will see a control sample (untreated) and three additional samples that have been treated. The treatments are as follows: 1) Wipe down with WD-40 every two weeks, 2) Wipe down with 20W motor oil every two weeks. 3) Epoxy coated on the outside and inside of track.
My intention is to post updates on these samples every week, so, if you are interested, check back every Monday or Turesday. It is also my intention to report on the 80' of epoxy coated track that I just laid last week. This track was all treated as described in #3 Above. However, Just to be on the safe side, It is my intention to wipe down the 80' layout of epoxy coated track with WD-40 every two weeks.
altterrain wrote: Hey Junnie,As part of your experiment, could you keep track of days that you get rain? Just curious, Brian
Hey Junnie,
As part of your experiment, could you keep track of days that you get rain?
Just curious, Brian
Hi Brian,
Based on historical weather data, it rains an average of 73 days per year in Monterey. However, more significant than the rain, is the coastal fog that rolls in an average of 156 days per year!
Since the rainy season is from November through April and the foggy period is from May through October, the Bachmann track could be exposed to moisture for 229 days each year! However, I live out in the country about 10 miles from the city at an elevation of 1200 ft. While we usually get the same amount of rain as Monterey, we only get about 1/2 as much fog.
Have fun with your trains
Time to put my money where my mouth is! I have decided to "bite the bullet" and build an outdoor layout using epoxy coated Bachmann track. Based on my preliminary experiments, I am confident that my odds of long term success are very good. Soooo, for the past two days, I have laid approximately 80 feet of this track on the lower section of our patio. (click on the link at the end of this post to see the first pictures of the layout)
I have a 4 year old grandson who just loves "Thomas the Train." This simple patio layout will be the perfect starter for him....it's out of the dirt and wide open, so that he can move around the center of the layout without having to worry about stepping on the track It will also be a great conversation piece when we have guests over for barbecue. As they sit on the lower patio benches sipping a glass of Monterey County Chardonnay, the little 4-6-0 Bachmann will be chugging quietly under their butts!
Even though the track is epoxy coated, I intend to wipe it down with WD-40 every 3 weeks. This is a precaution against the epoxy eventually wearing off of the top of the track. Wiping the 80 ft oval down with WD-40 takes less than 10 minutes.
For those of you just joining this thread, I would suggest that you go back and read all of the previous posts. You will then understand how I prepared the track for outdoor use, You should also be aware that I intend to run only RC / Battery powered equipment on this layout.
For those of you who are interested, I intend to post frequent updates on the long term outcome of this experiment.
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762398896415
If you click on the following link, you will see the results of the Bachmann track test after 13 days in some very rainy weather in central California!
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762398866768
As you view the photos, consider the following:
- It was my intention to wipe down the samples coated with WD-40 and 20W motor oil every week. However, after 13 days, these samples show no signs of rusting. Therefore, I plan to wipe them down every two weeks instead.
- The epoxy coated sample has only been out with the others for 2 days. However, during that time, we have had a fair amount of rain.
My initial impressions of this test....I was very pleasantly surprised that the WD-40 and motor oil samples have showed no signs of rust after two weeks in some very damp weather. It will be interesting to see how these two samples hold up over the long haul.
I will post the results of this experiment weekly. However, if I am traveling, I may skip a week every so often.
You should take those old HK's out of the attic and get them singing again! A few capacitors and some new tubes is probably all they need.
I am definitely planning to use a matte finish on the track once I make the final decision to paint them all.
Based on the very positive preliminary results of my testing, I have just about decided to start laying an 80' oval on a section of our redwood deck. This will give me a decent starter layout to play with, and, will provide a great "real world" test for the coated track.
Have 2 HKs in the attic, one is a Amp and other is a Radio.....think I blew both, I can not remember but they sure did jam with great speakers!
As for the track, looks good! not sure how the tie plate will hold them later, bad spot has to be sealed.
You going to shoot a dull coat or keep it the way it is?
Yesterday I sprayed four sections of Bachmann track with two part, urethane based, epoxy clear coat. After they dried, I coated the inside of the track with boiled linseed oil. Here is the detailed procedure that I used:
1 - First, I soaked the four sections of track in a tray of lacquer thinner...that's right! lacquer thinner! I wanted to dull the surface of the ties and to make sure that both the inside and outside of the metal track was totally free from any contaminants. Using a 4 inch paint brush, I brushed all parts of the track thoroughly before removing them from the tray. The lacquer thinner did dull the surface of the ties, but, it did not hurt them in any other way. Those ties are made from some tough material!
2 - After the four sections dried, I sprayed them with the epoxy using my HVLP touch-up gun. I gave them three light coats, Allowing 10 minutes flash off time between coats.
3 - I let them dry overnight, and, this morning I soaked them in a shallow tray of boiled linseed oil to coat the inside of the rails.
4 - I placed one of the epoxy coated sections outside along with the control sample and the other test sections treated with WD-40 and 20W motor oil. The remaining three sections of epoxy coated track were installed on a small test oval that I had put up in my garage to test the RC / battery system that I just installed in my 4-6-0. After the track has cured for another three or four days, I will run a four car train over it to see how well it holds up.
A couple of after thoughts...
- I am going to try another test that will involve soaking the track in a shallow tray of thinned epoxy to apply the first coat. If this works, the track would have an epoxy finish on the inside as well as the outside. Since the inside is protected from the elements, and, does not get any wear from the train, one coat should be enough to prevent rust.
- I was pleasantly surprised that preparing and spraying the track was a very easy project. I am estimating that working four hours each day, for two days, I could finish at least 250 running feet of track.
- Based on my initial work on this project, I am starting to believe that epoxy coating just might be a viable option to allow the use of Bachmann track outside. However, it is still a little too early to say for certain.
Click on this link to see epoxy coated samples:
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762398403316
Curmudgeon wrote: Ah, I work on old vacuum-tube radios, too.Very sorry to have to break this to you, but most of the stuff (tube bases, sockets, knobs, all that) is Bakelite, not plastic as we know it. If you don't know what a Material Safety Data Sheet is, and what petroleum-based products do to plastics, I am done with this conversation.
Ah, I work on old vacuum-tube radios, too.
Very sorry to have to break this to you, but most of the stuff (tube bases, sockets, knobs, all that) is Bakelite, not plastic as we know it.
If you don't know what a Material Safety Data Sheet is, and what petroleum-based products do to plastics, I am done with this conversation.
Hi Curmudgeon,
Hate to tell you this, but I have a Fisher KX-100, Harmam Kardon A500, Harman Kardon A250, Eico ST40, Dynaco PAS II, Scott LK-72B and many other tube amps.....all with numerous plastic parts...control knobs, slide switches, fuse holders, etc., etc.,
Click on the following address to see pictures of the HK A250 I just restored...by golly, I do believe those are platic knobs!
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/soda14a6v/album/576460762398306345
Who said I don't know what a MSDS is? Must have been that old rascal ToadFrog...for the life of me, I can't figure out how he found out so much about me in such a short period of time....he's truly an amazing fellow! :)
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