Is the trend for new engines that need ever wider diameters a good idea?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

I should point out my position isnt what I want!

Its where are we going and is that a good thing?

Are we heading toward a time when nothing new will work on less than 8 foot diameter? Where to seriously contemplate a garden RR we need to have a good acre of land ready?

I dont want or expect a DASH 9 to negotiate a 4 foot turn, but I am concerned that as time goes on less and less on the smaller diameter capable items will be offered and more and more wider only items will come to dominate the market.

How many suburban garden RR's will even consider the hobby when they go into the LHS and get told, "dont even think about a garden RR unless you have a 20' wide by 40 ' long area..."

Thats why I see this trend as having some unforseen pitfalls for the hobby...

Vic, I agree, the scale must diversify, however they must not do away with the type of loco that can negotiate 4, 5, and 6.5 diameter.

[vsmith]

I should point out my position isnt what I want!

Its where are we going and is that a good thing?

Are we heading toward a time when nothing new will work on less than 8 foot diameter? Where to seriously contemplate a garden RR we need to have a good acre of land ready?

I dont want or expect a DASH 9 to negotiate a 4 foot turn, but I am concerned that as time goes on less and less on the smaller diameter capable items will be offered and more and more wider only items will come to dominate the market.

How many suburban garden RR's will even consider the hobby when they go into the LHS and get told, "dont even think about a garden RR unless you have a 20' wide by 40 ' long area..."

Thats why I see this trend as having some unforseen pitfalls for the hobby...

[RhB_HJ]

Vic,

Yeah, yeah so LGB squeezes everything through R1 (600mm rad) and what does it look like?

Like a circus in which the elephant dances on the head of a needle.
Look at the Mikado! Sure it makes it through R1; problem is what's the wear on both engine and track? And then there is that minor little detail that the critter comes out of curves and never straightens up because of that "ingenious" [}:)][}:)] articulated design.
You want big engines, you'll need large curves. At least the mfgs are honest enough to tell you what's required.

Ever seen a BigBoy go around a street car curve? No? Just wait 'til LGB decides to get into the really big stuff!
What do you think the LGB GG1 will look like? Scale of 1:26/27 in width and height and 1:33 in length. Hardly noticeable, eh? Well I tell you Raymond Loewy is probably going to spin in his grave![:(!][:(!]

Of course this is just "silly old me" who thinks that a garden railway can be a model railroad instead of a charicaturized toy.[8)][8)]
What a concept!! Eh....!!

[Anonymous]

VSmith

Yes, you have a good rant and something that needs to be addressed by ALL.
Myself I plan 20' curves and 8's. Why you ask is because I have the land and it is not right for one hobbyer vs another but THEY keep doing what THEY want.
That is why my research for 3 yrs has been HELL!!!!![:(!]
You see I have not intended to make the 20' in my GRR, THEY made me, plus THEY made me spend MORE $$$$$$[:(!]

Hope that made since, I am pissed now....

[BudSteinhoff]

This will just be my view on large engines and yes I did have to redo my layout to a min. of 8ft. dia curves and switches.
I was getting bored and tired of the same style engines and all the foreign stuff that I was not interested in.
There is still a large availability of small equipment for smaller layouts.
I was glad to see a larger variety, more interesting and different equipment becoming available even if the layout needed to be modified.
The Bachman 2-8-0 caused much widening of many areas and now with my new Challenger I had to again widen and move many bridges and buildings due to the boiler hanging out in the front area on curves.
They may look weird on only 8ft. curves but I enjoy the big ones along with the small ones and in the future will only purchase different items like the Mallet and eventually may have to go to larger curves.
If you want larger engines then you need larger curves, period.
To me I like the challenge of getting all this equipment around my layout and getting them parked.
In my opinion the mfg. needs to keep the interest up for a variety of hobbiests and some of us enjoy larger more interesting engines to suppliment the smaller ones we already have.
Bud[8D]

[Anonymous]

vsmith
This is a good rant.I like to keep my railway along the sides of the garden so it is not too obvious.(.Also keeps Wifey happy).As a result I have a fair few tight curves around various things.If I use large curves everywhere it intrudes too much.All my engines are LGB but they are pricey.I'd like to get some Bachman loco's but I'm always worried if they will fit.Troy

[vsmith]

This issue has been burning in my head for a while now...

Is the current trend of manufacturers whos newest engines require ever widening diameter curves a good idea for the hobby?

I personally think the trend is stupid and lazy on the part of manufacturers and in the end hurts the hobby more than helps.

Let me explain, as the trend towards newer and larger engines continues, we will see larger engines come on the market, AC's newest DASH 9 is a good example. Yet it requires a 8 foot minimum diameter curve to work. OK I can see this, the dam thing is almost 3FEET long so the wider diameter is a given. Same with the new 2-8-8-2 articulated coming out this fall.

BUT! Bachmann's new relatively small Heisler ALSO recommends 8 foot diameter curves or it could bind up, Bachnmann's 2-8-0 Connie is known to complain loudly on even 6 foot diameter, yet its not that much larger than the 4-6-0 Annie which can run on as small as a 4 foot diameter curve. How much do you wanna bet the re-issue Shay will have a re-issue wider diameter requirement? The Spectrum 2-6-0 and 4-4-0? you guessed, 8 foot dia recommended.

I see this as a problem for future Garden Railroaders.

EVERYTHING form LGB will work on the small 4 foot diameter curves, WHY?because its a design criteria from the start. Even the new Mikado will take the 4 footers, it may not look pretty doing it, but the point is that it doesnt hamstring a modeler that might not have the room for 20 foot diameter curves on their layout.

The manufacturers seam to think we all live on 3 acres of land and can spread out far and wide for our layouts. Well, I dont! I'm on a small suburban lot with very limited space for an outdoor layout. I think I am typical of a large number of model RR's who would like to try for an outdoor layout but I am getting a little frustrated that I cant seam to find anything beyond the most basic engines and cars to consider for an outdoor layout. The largest curves i can afford are the 6.5 foot AC curves. I'm sure there are a great many for whom even that is too wide and 4 footers are all they can afford space for.

Now I'm not advocating that EVERYTHING should work on 4 foot diameter. But I do feel that manufacturers are short changing most of us by forcing us to rebuild what we have in order to accomodate thier newest products or they are just cutting a lot of existing and potential garden RR's right out of the loop. It doesnt take that much more engineering to work a locomotives tracking so it can run a wider range of curvature. To me its just lazyness on the manufacturers part. There isnt a single locomotive in Bachmanns roster that shouldnt easily negotiate a 5 foot diameter curve. 5 foot is easily negotiated by most of AC's 4 axle deisel engines.

I would like to see an effort by manufacturers to widen the range of use of their products. That to me means spending a little effort on THIER part to make their products more applicaple to OUR layouts, not us having to spend vast amounts of time and $ rebuilding OUR layouts to accomodate the standards THEY decide to impose.

Whadda Ya Think? Am I The Only One Who Can See A Future Problem Here?

Did you really like rebuilding your layout just so you could run a DASH 9 on it?



PS My rant is based on the fact that I really wanted a Spectrum 4-4-0 and a Connie for my planned outdoor layout. I still plan on the 4-4-0 but will now pass on the Connie.