Is the trend for new engines that need ever wider diameters a good idea?

[Snoq. Pass RR]

The Bach Heisler is similar to the Shay.  My Bach Shay will go EASILY around LGB's 4ft diameter(2ft radius) curves.  So, the Heisler should have no problem. 

vsmith and all (THESE ARE ALL BACHMANN LOCOMOTIVES WITH LGB TRACK)

0-4-0 Porter - R1

2-6-0 Mogul - R2

2-8-0 Consolidation - R2

4-4-0 American - R2 (maybe R1)

4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler - R2

2-Truck Shay - R1

2-Truck Heisler - R1

 

P.S. - NEVER compair Bachmann locomotives to Aristo-crap locomotives.  Bachmann locomotives can outhaul any Aristo-crap loco.  Spoken from experience.  A Bach 2-8-0 will pull 15 boxcars up a 25 yard long 2% grade.  An Aristo C-16(2-8-0), with same 15 boxcars and same hill, will get about 3 yards up the grade and start slipping.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree with you Vic. What gives with all the changes? I am looking at buying a USA Trains Big Boy (engine and tender it is 57" long) that requires a minimum 16' curve! I'm not so sure I have the room at present but will hold onto it all the same until I figure out what to do.  I am just getting back into model railroading and am confused as to what an R3 curve is. I know curves by the standard 4' - 20' terms how do they corolate to the R3's and the like?

[vsmith]

I take it that you are going to use hand bent curves to get the 7.5 diameter since that is not a standard curviture. Why not try resizing the curves that extra 6 inches ant sacrifice some straight track so you can run the BIG engines. I think in the long run you will be far happier with your layout...[8D]

[Anonymous]

As I enter into making a road, I keep reading on the back of my GR magazine (Aug 04 issue) which has a 2-8-8-2 on it.
Well read below about the 2-8-8-2 USRA Type Mallet middle of it.

QUOTE:
The Aristo-Craft Mallet will look great on a big layout with generous curves yet it will be at home on railroads with an 8 foot diameter curve.

[#soapbox]
OK.....#1 my RR is 120'x50' and the diameter curve is 7.5.
OK.....#2 not all people have this type of layout they can construct!!!!!!!

I WILL keep my eyes open and call in my orders to make dang sure I get what I can handle.
Some compaies are eeeeeerrrrrrrr never mind. Just what do they think???????

[Anonymous]

Thanks Vic, appreciate the the information, It makes everything I read in posts come together.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carpenter matt

Vic, are the rail hieghts between LGB and Aristocraft the same, or do you have to fudge them a bit?

LGB and Aristo/USA, they are all Identical in hight, but I would use a rail-clamp where the two types connect. Its much easier than trying to force an LGB joiner onto an Aristo/USA rail.

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,
Went into the local model shop this weekend for a box of 10' curves and came out empty handed - not in stock. They did have a box of 12.5' though, and was I tempted. I went back home and measured and the 12.5 will fit, but just. This is for the part of the garden nearest the house and I want a nice sweeping curve to be easy on the eye, but I would prefer to have a couple of straight sections in between the curves rather than one grand curve. Decisions, decisions.
Slightly off topic, I have been trying to sell/trade my N guage and had a price back from a dealer this morning, he must come from a long line of robbing b??!*r&s. 6 Kato/Atlas loco's and over 80 Atlas/microtrains freight cars - £325-00. In his dreams.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Vic, are the rail hieghts between LGB and Aristocraft the same, or do you have to fudge them a bit?

[vsmith]

R1 R3 R5 are designations given by LGB for thier curves.

R1 = 4' dia
R3 = 6' dia
R5 = 8' dia

Dont ask me why they did this, just confuses most people.

Aristo also sells 5' dia, 6 1/2' dia 8' and 10' dia curves so we can be more flexible planning layouts.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RhB_HJ

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bluebonnet - 71

...............
Seams I should use a dang 10' curve on every one now. That is just in case!!! Thank you G Scale Makers[banghead]

challenging space R1 and R2 will solve the problem, just don't expect to run a BigBoy or a Mallet unless it is made by LGB. [;)][:)][}:)][:D]
LGB will squeeze anything through a R1 (it's part of their credo!), how it looks is a different story.[:(][:(]

Now you know I want it to look good to the eye. The stock I have now (I think) will be ok.
One thing I never learned and you just made me is R1, what is a R1? I have seen it time to time.
So, I checked it on the net.
I guess I don't look at the radius 1 but look at it as in feet. I would say that goes back to my construction days. Ft., Yards, Cu.Yards, etc...
I guess I will make a list of what is what on the radius, like radius 1 = ft.
Like someone said on here it is there learning curve.[:)]
Also I would have to go back in my notes to see if the Santa Fe ran both the BigBoy or a Mallet if so that would be less money I would have to shell out for a train/s and could place else where.
Like a new lap top for TCC. Thank you HJ you give sounds advise [:)]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bluebonnet - 71

...............
Seams I should use a dang 10' curve on every one now. That is just in case!!! Thank you G Scale Makers[banghead]

Bill,

Not really, just select your rolling stock accordingly.
For all those with challenging space R1 and R2 will solve the problem, just don't expect to run a BigBoy or a Mallet unless it is made by LGB. [;)][:)][}:)][:D]
LGB will squeeze anything through a R1 (it's part of their credo!), how it looks is a different story.[:(][:(]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bluebonnet - 71

...............
Seams I should use a dang 10' curve on every one now. That is just in case!!! Thank you G Scale Makers[banghead]

Bill,

Not really, just select your rolling stock accordingly.
For all those with challenging space R1 and R2 will solve the problem, just don't expect to run a BigBoy or a Mallet unless it is made by LGB.
LGB will squeeze anything through a R1 (it's part of their credo!), how it looks is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Ok, after 3 freakn years of research now everything is (to me) upside down.
Yes, I can place larger curves in my yard but that would seem to cut down on my track.
Glade I only have a few cars at this time.
Seams I should use a dang 10' curve on every one now. That is just in case!!! Thank you G Scale Makers[banghead]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chompers

snip........

Ok that was not really topick related ,but that just proves that manufactures shouln't requiore large curves. the rest of my layout is lgb R3 and R5, what happened to R4??? Look i don't see why a Mogul that is 2 inches longer than my Lgb mogul should need 10' diam curves!!! its just plane stupid.


P.S. in the instruction manual it says 10' diam curves 5' radius.

Chompers,

OTOH I doubt anyone was twisting your arm and forcing you to buy the Spectrum engine.
Besides research on the Internet will tell you what min. radius is required.
For $200 you're the winner. In the scale, as well as the running department!
Here's what one guy had to say after six months of runninghttp://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/show.php?fid=9&id=26

Sounds super to me!
No, I don't have one, I model Swiss proto.

[Anonymous]

Well, My layout is 8' diameter and is 30'X15'', I can run my Aristo FA1/FB1 and 10 cars with no problems and they look ok. Right now, that is all I want from my railway. I don't have the money to get any larger equipment so I don't really care if 3' long stuff comes out, I wouldn't buy it anyway, even if I had larger curves. I think that stuff coming out should at LEAST work on 8', otherwise it won't sell well and everyone will complain.

[Anonymous]

Well I can say I have bought "MUST HAVE" equipment and have regretted it. My collection of must have items that I want to sell now almost justifies booth space at the next train show. I guess I justify pricing of some Loco's in large scale verses other scales with " It is alot bigger" more train for the buck so to speak. Let's face it some HO and other scales go for the same money as large scale stuff and they're tiny by comparison. I myself have not gone through the frustration of the curve issue yet, but when I lay my trackI will lay 10 ft diameter curves only or larger base on the frustration experience of all who have posted in this forum.

[Chompers]

NO.

Most of my roling stack is lgb american. i also have an LGB Mogul [VERY NICE!!!!!] sorry about that.

A while back i was on ebay and found a New in box Spectrum mogul from Bockman. whell the guy wanted $200 for it so i just had to have it eventually it came in the mail, Yeh!!!!... but when i put it on my indoor layout the middle wheels over hung the tracks by 3/4 of an inch!!!
so now i have to tear out a hole section of my RR and rebuild it with 6' diam curves. This STINKS!!!!!!!

Ok that was not really topick related ,but that just proves that manufactures shouln't requiore large curves. the rest of my layout is lgb R3 and R5, what happened to R4??? Look i don't see why a Mogul that is 2 inches longer than my Lgb mogul should need 10' diam curves!!! its just plane stupid.


P.S. in the instruction manual it says 10' diam curves 5' radius.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Gentlemen and Rene;

To give you an idea of incorrect marketing; "Barbie" has a new blonde Aussie surfie boyfriend called Blain. We here in Australia objected to this name, it is too poofy for us. So I rang all my 5 grandaughters and asked them not to buy any Barbie products. A few of the older ones were a bit scathing but the rest were ok about it and guess what Barbie's sales are still dropping. Good idea bad marketing.

Rgs

Ian; Kawana etc.

Shudda called him "Bruce"!

Right Bruce?

Yeah right to you are Bruce!





Running for cover behind my Monty Python collection...Vic[:D]

[Anonymous]

Hi HJ,
I guess that dealer is right, you must be a hard man to sell to indeed! I can see your sentiment about era etc but I look at some things in our local shop and the adverts in Garden Railways and I can feel control slipping away. I also bought a lot of secondhand on my first set up which in turn, when I sold it, became third hand! Saying that I never throw a box away and that gear went back on the dealers shelves like new. At the moment I have 1:29 and 1:20.3 so it'll be different stock at different times depending on how I feel. As Vic says, let's enjoy it whilst we can afford it because as things cost more and more you will probably find the owners will be reluctant to sell because of the huge loss they would have to take or conversely people will buy them as investments and the resale price will be higher than new. Crazy old world, especially for Blain!! - nice one Ian, the buyer controls when enough act together.
Rene,
Do you feel an editorial coming on here about this very subject, it's going to roll & roll by the look of it.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen and Rene;

Kim as usual is quite right, let your wallet speak for you. If you are unhappy with the way some equipement is being offered, don't buy it and advise others not too, as well. These manufacturers after all have to make aprofit to stay in business and if you do not buy some products, they will soon stop making them.

Many organisations have marketing departments that don't even know what marketing is and so they do what gut feel tells them and not what the market place wants, this is a good reipe for going broke.

So if you do not like a trend, give it a miss and it will die our through necessity.

To give you an idea of incorrect marketing; "Barbie" has a new blonde Aussie surfie boyfriend called Blain. We here in Australia objected to this name, it is too poofy for us. So I rang all my 5 grandaughters and asked them not to buy any Barbie products. A few of the older ones were a bit scathing but the rest were ok about it and guess what Barbie's sales are still dropping. Good idea bad marketing.

Rgs

Ian; Kawana etc.

[vsmith]

The only way I think you'll ever see a Eerie triplex in garden scale is if someone kitbashes it!

I have noticed that as the newest offerings are being released another thing. That the prices of new items is slowley ratching upwards...I mean AC's 4-6-2 Pacific is about $400, the new 4-8-2 is around $500, but LGB new Mikado is $1600 (LGB always has been premium $). USA's new Hudson is also $1600, and there newest steam engine, an 0-6-0 switcher is coming in at a whoopingly high $1300 bucks! Is this thing Gold Plated?

I have seen the photos of it and yes, it is almost Museum quality. I guess thats why it is so pricey. But bachmann has managed to produce several almost museum quality item in the Spectrum line and almost every one of them is avalible for less than $500, even as low as $250.

I get the feeling that USA wants to take on Accucraft in the "Finescale" arena. Hence the new Hudson and Switcher. I wonder how many of these they will sell eventually, and how much all these newest offering are hurting LGB's bottom line.

Imagine, 10 years ago LGB was king of Garden RRing, now they are just another player..

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

.............Of course the only time this doesn't work is when you're in the store & you see that 'must have' loco that you know is totally wrong for your RR but you just happen to have a credit card in your pocket and before you know it it's on your track. Yes, some loco's look stupid on our railways but it doesn't matter. It only matters when you think it looks stupid and that's were second hand loco's come from.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Kim,

Actually I'm glad there are "second hand engines", matter of fact four of my five are that variety.

I don't recall ever buying a "must have" engine, this despite having my credit cards along.
As one of the dealers (they bought from us and we bought from them) used to say: "you really make selling hard work" and all this because my standard answer when shown the new items was: "sorry, doesn't fit my railway; sorry, doesn't fit my era"[;)][;)][:)]

[Anonymous]

Hi all
All I can add is heaven help us if one of the manufactures throws an Eirie?? spelling
Triplex at us they are HUGE.
I saw a picture of one on the 16mm news group of all places they normaly deal with 2' on 32mm gauge.
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hi Kim,
Planning ahead is a good idea in a large space and an absolute necessity in a small space such as ours.

We also had just moved into a new home ( 15 yrs ago) and my advanced planning caused me to relocate the air conditioner compressor and the unbuilt unattached garage to gain the most usable space. Even with all my planning I was still forced to build one 40" radius curve and that now limits what rolling stock I can run.

I was in On2 at the time but had seen some large scale stuff and planned the yard for the eventuality of going into garden railroading at some point.

OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,
Nice discussion going on here, I've been reading it for a while before I put my own two penny'th in. (An old Lancashire saying based on the old money - 2 pennies worth) Having just moved into a new home I can appreciate the views on planning ahead and I have done nothing else for the last 7 months. As a result stuff that was on the right side of the back garden is now on the left. The totally elevated track is now only down one side. The water course has moved sides. I honestly think that you plan ahead every time you look at your RR, you see something that looked great the day before but now you arn't sure. That's us guys, every time you sleep your grey matter is making sense of everything you've just done and when you wake up you want to relay all that track again. Of course the only time this doesn't work is when you're in the store & you see that 'must have' loco that you know is totally wrong for your RR but you just happen to have a credit card in your pocket and before you know it it's on your track. Yes, some loco's look stupid on our railways but it doesn't matter. It only matters when you think it looks stupid and that's were second hand loco's come from.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, FOR COMPANYS TO MAKE BIGGER AND BIGGER ,ENGINES. I ONLY HAVE SO MUCH ROOM IN MY GARDEN, AND THEY WANT YOU TO BUY BIGGER, IF IT DON'T WORK IN MY GARDEN , I WILL NOT BUY BIGGER.
BEN -----------PENNA. [tdn] [soapbox] [:(!]

[Anonymous]

HJ,
No offence intended, just nudging you around a bit.

I also went to the SMALL SCALE "Plan ahead school" thirty years ago and built layouts with plenty of clearance etc. etc.

However the LARGE SCALE "Plan ahead school" didn't offer a course in monster rolling stock ten years ago because no one saw a need for such a course. Standard gauge models just barely existed and 1:20.3 narrow gauge models were not even thought of.

So, to rag on people for not planning ahead in large scale is only valid if you qualify your statements as being directed at people who have built their layouts since larger rolling stock came to market.

Just my opinion .... OLD DAD

[RhB_HJ]

On another note.

The LGB advocates who believe that everything works on R1 should read some of the posts regarding catenary installations in conjunction with R1 and some of the engines that have considerable overhang.

Sooooooo the problem is present even with LGB and R1, it is just a matter of where and under which circumstances the beast rears its head.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by OLD DAD

HJ,
If you would have gone to the "Plan Ahead School" ten years ago they didn't even offer a course in monster rolling stock LOL.

May all your weeds be wild flowers.....OLD DAD

OLD DAD,

Actually I went to the "plan ahead school" thirty years ago. That was prior to the Euro mfgs going to scale cars in HO, so when they arrived I was all set. Wide curves, tunnel portals positioned in strategic locations etc. etc.

Ten years ago I was teaching "Model railroading - the basics" and it was part of the course i.e. plan generously, you will need the "extra" sooner or later.

I'm a firm believer in experience. One of my favourite comebacks to the "Twenty years of experience" statement is: "Would that be twenty years or twenty times one year?"
That is not quite the same, but I know there are people who need to be re-trained (no pun intended) in the afternoon if the lunch break is too long.[:0][:0][:D][:D]
Of course another favourite of mine is: "Smart people make mistakes, stupid people make the same mistakes over and over again"

As catty as both of them sound, they usually only offend if the shoe fits.

C'est la vie...... eh!?![:)][8D][:D]

[Anonymous]

HJ,
If you would have gone to the "Plan Ahead School" ten years ago they didn't even offer a course in monster rolling stock LOL.

May all your weeds be wild flowers.....OLD DAD